I have never spoken in tongues. And honestly, I have never wanted to. I had some pastor tell me that I didn’t want to speak in tongues because I was proud and didn’t want to look foolish in front of others. Maybe so. But I don’t think that looking foolish in front of others is doing a whole lot of good for the cause of Christ and the advancement of the kingdom. But that is a topic for some other time.
All I want to say is that if you speak in tongues, I am not trying to mock you or your prayer language in the rest of this post. I am only poking fun at the two examples below…
I am introducing my series called “Let Prayer Meetings Cease” by writing about several types of prayer that you might hear in a prayer meeting. (I write more about this in my forthcoming book, Cruciform Pastoral Leadership.) Recently we looked at the “Magic Words” prayer. Today, we look at the prayer where people let God do the talking.
The “I Don’t Know What I’m Saying, So God Will Say it For Me” Prayer
I have sometimes been in prayer meetings where people clearly lose their train of thought, or they don’t really know how to pray for the issue at hand, and so rather than pause, or stumble around for the right words, or simply pray wrongly and let God sort it out (He doesn’t mind), the person instead starts to “speak in tongues,” thus trying to impress everybody with their spirituality.
And rather than type what it sounds like, I will give you an example from YouTube. Of course, this guy is preaching a sermon, but just imagine he is praying instead. You’ll get the idea. I actually feel bad for this poor pastor. It appears that he was told that the Holy Spirit would take over and start preaching through him, but for some reason, the Holy Spirit power never really “kicks in” …unless 90% of a Holy Spirit Sermon consists of the words “Glory to God! Hallelujah!”
Oh, and I know this video is old. It looks like it’s from the 1980’s. But these kinds of sermons are still preached in countless pulpits across America today. In the religious environment in which I work, I hear sermons like this almost every week.
Speaking in Tongues Videos
The first is by Brother Barry.
And then there is this classic from Televangelist Robert Tilton:
I don’t know if you have ever been in prayer meetings where people do this sort of thing. It has always made me uncomfortable, and I often doubt that this is really what speaking in tongues was all about in Acts 2 and elsewhere in the New Testament. You can disagree, but I think it is always better to pray with words that both you and others understand.
Eventually I plan to write a book about speaking in tongues and what the Bible teaches about it (Join my discipleship group to be notified when it is published), but for now, I just encourage you to stay away from this practice in public prayer settings, especially when it is used as a means to make yourself look more spiritual and sound more holy. This is not what prayer is for.
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Is there a point to praying aloud with other people present if those people can’t understand what we’re saying? Should there not be an interpreter present, as Paul suggests? Yes, I know some would say God hears and understands, but God also hears silent prayer.
I know a linguist who thinks and has seen what he describes as a gift of “tongues”, whereby some individuals pick up and learn to speak another language very rapidly, in a matter of days or weeks. He saw this in the country where he served as a missionary when Christianity was spreading rapidly.
“Tongues” can be divisive, as in “the spiritual speak in tongues and everyone else doesn’t get the gift”. Some years ago we knew a guy who was probably the last guy we would ever expect to become a believer. But he did and we believed he was sincere. However, his church insisted that he couldn’t be a true believer if he couldn’t speak in tongues. He couldn’t, so taking their word that he was not really a believer, he returned to his old, reprehensible life.
@Sam, all the gifts can be divisive, no? Paul says he speaks in tongues more than the Corinthians, but to desire prophecy MORE. Prophecy is seemingly less desirable, because they are usually hated, because they point out each other’s sins. We need ALL the gifts for the body to function properly. The church has propped up the gift of teaching for far too long. The pentecostals has propped up the gifts in general, with tongues being emphasized (I always saw tongues as wearing the tzitzit long to impress others) It’s just ONE gift to edify the body ONLY if there’s an interpreter. At the old church I ran, we had one lady who spoke, and a man in the back who interpreted. If he wasn’t there, she didn’t speak in tongues.
There’s the right type, and there’s the wrong type.
In my church it seems almost everybody has the ‘Tounges’ gift and they use it quite regularly. I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. but I’ve never heard anyone interrupt, never. Seems nobody has the gift of interpretation. I wish they would stick to the biblical guidance in the use of Tounges in a church service. the pastor does it too again never an interpretation. Dr Stanley says its either from the Holy Spirit, psychological, or satanic. the last part scares me.
I felt so embarrassed for the guy in the first video. I couldn’t even continue watching it. I hope I wasn’t that bad my first time 🙂
The farting preacher (Tilton) is always a good example of the EXTREME. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me2H7Ja93Wg
Those vids have given pentecostals a bad name. 😉
Jeremy, I think we have at last come to a point of disagreement. My opinion of ecstatic utterances was like yours. Have you heard the saying, being a fool for Christ. Poor old David loved God so much he abandoned himself to God in 2 Samuel 6 v 14, what happened to his wife the scoffer. Poor old Ezekiel, read what he had to do in ch 4. read the whole book. Read 1 Samuel ch 19 v 24 Saul lay naked all day and night on the ground as Gods Holy Spirit made him prophesy. Adam and Eve walked around naked with God in broad daylight, the next day they hide. Do you think God cares about our inhibitions, did He give them to us? no the devil did, to separate us from our intimate relationship with God.
Unless we lose our inhibitions none of His Will and work will be done. Has he never told you to go and talk to a complete stranger and the mere thought of it has caused your bowels to do strange things like FART, No, maybe He already knew you would have a real problem with that so He gave someone else the opportunity to bless someone and be blessed in turn. When God lets us off the hook He does it because He loves us to bits, that does not mean he will give up on us and not give us other opportunities. Have you ever asked god to use you, beware what you ask for unless your willing to respond.
Jeremy I love you, but please don’t restrict God working through you in whatever way He may decide, as it’s all to your benefit and His Glory.
Here is my story right up to the present. When our Church decided to run the Alpha course I was asked to join a team to pray before and during the meetings for those who were attending. After the talk the then Vicar would come in and give us the list of those there that night and maybe a particular person who was close to accepting Christ. This went on for a number of weeks, I was the only man as praying is a womans thing isn’t it? anyway the ladies all prayed in tongues, not all the time, only after we had done specific prayers, I kept quiet at this time not understanding what it was all about, but I was not antagonistic towards it. One evening one lady Renuka stopped praying in tongues and said to me Clive the lord has told me He has put a tongue in your mouth and you need to say it, I thanked her and they continued. “silly woman I already have a tongue in my mouth” I thought. However she stopped praying again and said the same thing. By now I was getting embarrassed and really annoyed and told her I was not aware of anything, I decided that I would try and sneak out when their eyes were closed. They continued. Suddenly a word came into my mind Cuumara it kept repeating itself to me, I mouthed the strange word, suddenly before I knew it I uttered it out loud, Very Loud, then I said another word like buunara, I carried on for 30 minutes speaking not only the words the Angels use, the heavenly language, but German, Russian, Chinese everything I did not want it to stop, I have never felt so good in my whole life and it has never repeated itself. The ladies laughed all the time. Oh come Holy Spirit don’t leave us to live in our miserable lives any more.
Ecstatic utterances are better than Steak, Roast potatoes and Yorkshire puddings with thick gravy, better than a sun drenched beach with the waves crashing on the rocks, better than the greatest sex with your lover. I’ve calmed down a lot now, maybe I need to spend more time alone in noisy prayer,
I also laugh in the Spirit, not as much as I used to, maybe because I don’t need it anymore. Sometimes I laugh in the Spirit with others who need to find release, so he uses me to help the River flow to break down the dams that have been constructed.
I now dance in the Spirit. I started doing this at a conference last year and heard God say “dance for me” He had to be persistent so I eventually got up went to the back where no one could see and danced for Him, God I will do anything for you. I danced with abandon and when the worship was over I sat down. The next day at the conference he said dance for me, it did not take me as long, but as I got up He said “dance at the front”. The leaders had said at the beginning they had made space for those who want to dance or wave flags to come up. I walked to the front at the side, no one told me to sit down and as the worship continued I swayed in time and started to dance.
Two men came up to me afterwards and said “that was wonderful I wish I had the courage to do it, don’t ever stop” women also came to me afterwards and said they loved my dancing. I don’t yet do it in my own Church, well I do in the pew. We went to the same conference this year and I danced again as the Spirit led me. I was dancing in the prayer ministry time and God said dance with him, I touched the man and said “dance with me to the Lord” he did and so did several others during that time.
Thats enough for now. When God says GO never say NO as you may continue to loose out on what it will be like in Heaven, there you will no option but to dance to and with the Lord. But don’t worry you wont have to use tongues as they will no longer be required, they are His workmanship Here, on the unrepentant earth. All the gifts are for our benefit use them or loose them for yourself and others. Sing, Dance and utter Psalms to the Lord.
This is the day that the lord has made, we shall rejoice and be glad in it. Life was created for partying, Jesus loved weddings, funerals, banquets with plenty of food, wine, dancing, laughter, rejoicing. I will let Jesus have the last word. Matthew 9 v 14 to 15 John the baptist disciples complained about the disciples of Jesus, thinking they were better, “why don’t your disciples fast” Jesus said “Do wedding guests mourn while celebrating with The Groom”.
Your bother in Christ Clive
Clive,
Thank you for telling this wonderful story. It is definitely not something I have ever personally experienced.
In the post, I am not saying such things cannot happen, only that I think it is abused and misused and faked sometimes.
Would you agree?
March 7th, 2019
I have a true amazing story, a miracle in fact that my Grandmother experienced first hand. Many years ago, when she was about 85 years old, I sat with her and asked her to tell me first hand exactly what happened to her. Over the years I had heard bits and pieces from my Mother, but never directly from my Grandmother’s mouth. I wrote it all down to preserve the story. I would love to share it on this website, but don’t know if I can, not being a member.
These people do nothing but make everyone else think Christians are unintelligent and crazy. This is one of those issues that Christians need to separate themselves from completely by condemning it. I don’t think saying “Oh well I have never experienced it but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen” is good enough. Being “nice” about something so unbelievably….idiotic… just allows the ignorance to spread around. Not to mention the fact that nowhere in the Bible does anyone start speaking gibberish (except MAYBE when David was acting all crazy to fool people into thinking he was crazy).
Just my opinion though.
I am not going to condemn it, but I am not ready to embrace it either. I know many Christians who speak in tongues in this way, but have a great relationship with God, and are loving people in the community in wonderful, tangible ways.
This is one of those areas where I try to practice the centered set approach I talked about in the previous series. As long as people seem to be moving ever closer to Jesus, then we can agree to disagree on some of these areas, and even discuss and debate these issues, but hopefully, we can continue to love each other and work together for the cause of the Gospel.
I just feel like they cause nonbelievers to run for the hills. I’m definitely not saying these people aren’t good members of the community or not saved, (a lot probably are). But their actions DO cause others to completely abandon any thoughts of looking into Christianity seriously (I say this as someone with many non-believing friends.) Also, I’m saying to condemn the ideas, not the person (in case that was lost in my comment). If them acting like loonies causes other people to turn away from Jesus, it should be addressed.
Honestly, I didn’t even know these types of people existed until I saw Jesus Camp, which was chilling to say the least.
Disclaimer: These are all just my opinions and I welcome any challenges to my ideas.
Well, if you understand organic church, it’s doubtful those things would happen! At the last house church I was at, only one woman spoke in tongues, and she had prophetic insight. We had a fellow from Colorado on a business trip and heard about the home church..no one knew him and she was praying in the spirit when she called out the sin he was doing the night before! (he called an “escort” to his hotel room)…he actually got angry and left….but she was right..but the house church broke up eventually (the “leader” was becoming a controlling “pastor”), and she joined IHOP. Oh well.
Oh, and what is IHOP? I only know of the International House of Pancakes.
Kirk,
What is Jesus Camp? I have never heard of it.
IHOP http://www.ihop.org/
It borders on a cult, but I’ve never been so that’s just circumstantial. The hub is in St Louis, and it expanded to New Jersey
Here’s jesus camp gratis: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/jesus-camp/
I didn’t see a problem with it except that it promoted a theocracy (dominion theology I think) which is NOT what we want. It was a while ago, but raising your kids up in the ways of the Lord is what all our goals should be. I also remembered them praying for our leaders which is what the Lord desires.Oh, and a cardboard cutout of Bush. 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac
10 minutes- highlights of the movie. slain in spirit, tongues, all little kids.
While quite a few people “fake” it, my rule of thumb is “You know them by their fruits”.
Hey, Jeremy. I had to give myself a few days on this one. I grew up in a pentecostal church. I have seen a lot of abuses in the church I grew up in. That said, I have prayed in tongues (I prefer to call it praying in the spirit) for more than 30 years. Your post triggered some emotional responses….hence giving myself a little time before responding. A couple of observations….
Pentecostals can be snotty, stuck-up elitist snobs when it come to this issue. Did I get some toes? Seriously, they never come right out and say it from the pulpit, but it is understood that if you do no ‘speak in tongues’, you’re not filled with the Spirit…and your salvation is inferior, if even real.
On the other hand, I had friends in school who were from a non-pentecostal denomination and they would tell me that ‘speaking in tongues’ was ‘of the devil’. That hurt. That is a different form of denominational elitist snobbery.
So, as with all the gifts of the Spirit, this one can be misused, abused and even faked. And the environment I grew up in encouraged faking it to fit in (not overtly, but by pressure to conform). This is wrong. However, it is also wrong to accuse someone of being influenced by the devil for something you don’t understand. Both sides use their stance on this to be divisive.
Personally, I value very highly the gift of being able to pray in the Spirit. It is a gift – the Holy Spirit helps me pray when I don’t know how to pray or even what to pray. Often, when I feel stuck on what I need to pray about, I begin praying in the Spirit, then after a few minutes, the understanding of what I prayed will follow and I will gain insight into what is going on in my heart. But I don’t always get understanding…it still is a very personal and direct thing with God and me. And I would not give it up for anything. However, I also would not pray that way in front of someone who did not understand what I was doing. That’s just rude, actually….
Finally, I am adamantly apposed to using ‘speaking in tongues’ as some sort of litmus test to determine someone’s spiritual maturity. I know people who pray in tongues that are far more immature than others who never want to go there. I also do not believe it is something that ‘must’ be present as evidence of being filled with the Spirit. I know people who are so obviously filled with the Spirit but do not want to ever ‘speak in tongues’. It is a gift. It is not a requirement. I wish both sides would just let it be a personal thing and not a religious thing.
My 2 cents. 🙂
Katherine,
Thank you for the very kind and gracious reply to what was a hastily and negatively written post. These initial four or five posts have all been rather negative. Not exactly what I wanted. I am sorry about that.
Your comment is very kind and insightful. Thank you very much. I do agree that there is a lot about prayer and communication with God in the Spirit that I do not understand.
I have met many who seem to take a very balanced approach to it, as you are doing here. Thank you very much.
I think in my post starting tomorrow, I can get back on track with some of the positive ways of praying, and how churches of all types can allow prayer to lead them into missional involvement in their community.
Hey Jeremy, I am loving your posts, they are challenging and written with a great sense of love and grace.
I’m a recovering pastor who still speaks in tongues but I have to agree that people often relate to the gifts of the Holy Spirit with more of a superstitious magic mentality than one of faith and submission.
I have been challenging everything I have believed in and want to discover what God had in mind when He wrote the New Testament rather than what I am told to believe.
Looking forward to sharing with and learning from you my brother.
Blessings 🙂
I never post my blog, but since I’m also a charismatic recovering pastor, I’ve come to a conclusion (that also might change)
http://antwrites.com/2011/08/27/tongues-and-me/
That might guide you, or it may not
Ant
I meant I never post my blog on someone else’s blog, so if you will forgive me this one impasse?
I don’t mind people posting links to their blog at all. Especially when it fits the topic of the article. Thanks for the link! I remember reading it in August, but I will come read it again as a refresher.
I disagree.
With what?
“I have sometimes been in prayer meetings where people clearly lose their train of thought, or they don’t really know how to pray for the issue at hand, and so rather than pause, or stumble around for the right words, or simply pray wrongly and let God sort it out (He doesn’t mind), the person instead starts to “speak in tongues,” thus trying to impress everybody with their spirituality.”
In my experience, when I’ve found myself thinking that, I get a poke in my conscience that says “Dont be so self-righteous! God can work with anything we give him – no matter what it looks like to us or others”.
Clearly there’s a spectrum, and there are people in the church for strictly hypocritical (in the original sense) reasons.
But cynicism is as poisonous as lying. Even if the cynicism is justified, don’t go there. It kills love.
(I’m probably not catching the tone of your piece. Sorry)
It’s all good. I just don’t mind silence in prayer as we listen to God or wait on the words to come.
I’ve seen met with and trained with the most devout missionaries around the world. They spend years persevering to learn languages to reach the unreached people groups. Not one was able to do what tongues was by a gift, speak in a foreign tongue. Never seen or recorded by any credible missions agency. So if our interpretation doesn’t lead us to a cessation interpretation. The lack of witnessing the gift should speak volumes.
Excellent point. All the stories I have ever heard about this happening are “from a friend who knows a guy who heard a story at a mission’s conference.”
Spent years with NTM and we worked closely with Wycliffe. It Just doesn’t happen. And the claims that it does coincidently comes from folks that tend to create a number of concerns.
Wow. I love hearing this. Thanks.
If it does not follow the Scripture it is not Biblical.1 Corinthians 14:27-28 “27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.” !. Speak one at a time. 2. must be a interpreted. 3. if no interpreter, then one should keep quiet and speak to themselves. This is what God’s Word says, so we do not go by what man says or what we want to do…
Right. IF there is going to be tongues, they should be interpreted.
Yes, true.
And then, I believe “tongues” have been misinterpreted by many, but that is my thoughts
Do you think it matters whether the interpretation is “right”?
Or is the spirit more important?
My bet; sometimes the Holy Spirit adopts the interpretation we provide, rather than vice Versace
My bet; sometimes the Holy Spirit adopts the interpretation we provide, rather than vice Versace
Is this a biblical statement?
How do you think spiritual ministry works?
When we are walking in accordance with the character of God… we’re in harmony with Him.
When Jesus says “I only do what I see my Father doing”… he was saying – my Father has compassion & mercy for his children, and so that’s what I do too.
So when he says “Lazarus come out”… he’s not merely providing a verbal commentary on something the Spirit was already doing, he’s creatively exercising his authority in accordance with the general will of the Father.
Just as we do.
The same power that raised Jesus from the grave lives in us. As and when we abide in the heart of the Father, the Spirit will honour our faith and act in accordance with “our” will.
Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
just noticed “vice Versace”.
That’s quite funny.
🙂
As and when we abide in the heart of the Father, the Spirit will honour our faith and act in accordance with “our” will.
I would not make this statement. Especially not ‘will’. I agree the Spirit of God can do what He wants to do but this is not a template or recipe that will ALWAYS work this way. Prosperity teachers use this recipe a lot. I am very weary of it as God is still above us and His ways are not our ways.
Reuben Anderson well if it Holy Spirit really is involved shouldn’t the interpretation be right? Just saying.
“right”?
Well, if you mean “in accordance with the will of the Father, creatively expressed by a child of Him still living in a sin burdened body and with limited powers of knowledge and language…”
Yes. That’s what I’ve said.
Yes agree with Reginald.
Although I do not believe in glossolalia
Any of you remember “The Toronto Blessing” back in 1994.
I was with a large charismatic church in Cape Town at the time this broke out. Google it if you want more info.
Crazy manifestions of the Spirit started to happen with laughing, getting drunk, tounges etc.
People were attracted to these fun times and the manifestations. Me included. However that became the attraction and the Gospel of Jesus was taking a back seat.
Now I speak in tounges but not publicly anymore. I use the gift to edify myself in private or at times if I pray for someone and am not sure what to pray I use tongues under my breath and it’s as though the Spirit aligns my thoughts with His and then I proceed to pray normally believing it is under The Spirits guidance.
Now just as the Toronto Blessing was misused for sensationalism I believe tongues can be misused as well. If it draws attention to yourself it is probably been misused. I believe with any of the gifts this can be so.
It’s about Jesus. Not the gift, my fame, popularity or whatever else.
This discussion makes me think of something else.
If we regularly talk to God as a friend we start hearing or sensing His part of the conversation. Now sometimes He will want to use us to accomplish something so He gives us a gift like a word of knowledge that we say to someone. Now do I have the gift of “Words of knowledge” This is where we have to be careful especially when encouraging someone to use or cultivate a gift. It may be a temporary gift and the encouragement creates a fake as the person gets excited and starts using physcoanalisis or other methods to come up with “Words of knowledge”. The person may not even know they are doing this.
I think the same can happen with tounges. If gifts are abused we start questioning if they are real and start to not believe anymore even though it’s clear in scipture.
Bottom line is staying in focus with Jesus and of course anything without love is just a lousy noise.
It is like so many doctrines…overplayed. There is more emotional hype involved and…as Reginald mentioned…most of the time, it is done outside of proper norms
The same goes with “being slain in the Spirit”, which serves no real purpose, for the most part. Overdone.
People act as if there are certain doctrines which must be practiced in order to be a proper follower of Christ. Well, no. Jesus laid out no such mandates.
Love. Let that be our doctrine, our religious practice and the nucleus of all we do. Let His love flow through us to one another and to our neighbor. All else is just a bunch of noise.
Love this. Christian service is about service … not showing off. Let’s stop putting on shows and just love people
True that. I might mention that before Jesus ever reached out to heal or feed thousands the record says…’he was moved with compassion.’ It’s an interesting study in the Greek language if I can jog my memory, i.e., a deep yearning for, crying/heaviness.
So it is an emotional experience. Thank God for emotions! We are emotional beings too. We don’t stop being so for nothing. Hype goes both ways. But I too have seen years of hand slappin on the head but I’ve also seen and experienced ‘falling” under an certain glorious presence. I dunno if I would even call it ‘falling.’ Certainly not ‘slained.’ I’m still alive. But back to speaking in tongues.
Bill Hager …well said. Compassion = with suffering. It is the epitome of empathy. This is just one of the main things love does.
John Gardiner yes, and I think of Luke 4:16-28.
And Isaiah 35:4-10.
So in short I see compassion identifying with the suffering by being among suffering but not just for the sake of being among the suffering. I think wherever God…compassion goes, change or transformation takes place gradually or instantly. That much I know for sure.
Agree. I was pushed in church years ago to fall down and when I was the only one standing….preacher got annoyed and rebuked satan. Goodness me. Needless to say that was my last visit to that particular church
This happened to me once too! Ha! The guy literally tried to push me to the ground, and I didn’t feel like going, so I resisted. He then accused me of resisting the Holy Spirit. Well … if he was the Holy Spirit, then yes, I was resisting.
Kevin Meehan
Not a mechanical thing. But rather inspired spontaneity. Like getting turned on and making love with my wife. I see a lot more support from other scriptures than just I Corinthians 12&14. This to me is real charismata rather than charismania.
I find that it happens only with people who are really emotional people. I think bible refers to laguages as we know it not a special language. Maybe look at medical cases of foreign accent syndrome
Hmm. Good insight.
I love speaking in tongues in my private prayer over the last 36 years.
My problem was i relied in tongues too much and it was some 25 years into my walk i began to praying in the understanding as well.
In the church i prayer quietly in a meeting however we were on of the few fellowships that did use the gifts according to corinthians 14.
These days i rarely hear tongues, interpretation or prophecy in meetings done that way.
If you’re feeling the pressure, just say “Bought a Toyota shoulda bought a Honda” really fast Jeremy ?
LOL.
True tongues are always used for a reason the Spirit chooses. It can be for private strength, or for a collective believer need or word from God.
If privately done, even in a group where others hear, it does not necessarily need interpretation, but could. If it seems like it is for all, then it should be interpreted.
Most tongues heard today are false or emotional jabber. How to tell? ….if a believer sounds like the Spirit in tongues, but never wins souls, never heals sick or rarely does works mentioned in Acts….you should question the supposed experience.
Tongues without works is dead!
Never heard that before, but I like it!
Use to speak in tongues, don’t any more. I have a fuller, richer experience with the Lord and the Holy Spirit now without tongues, than I did when I thought I spoke in tongues, the years I was under Charismatic error. Speaking in tongues is not for today in my opinion. We are to walk by faith not by sight, or emotional liver quivers.
Yes, this has been my sense. I love conversation with God. I don’t desire to speak in words I don’t understand. I would feel like I was missing out on a meaningful conversation.
There must have been a reason Paul said “I thank my God I speak in tongues more than you all” then went on to qualify
Truly so much I still dont understand
The Bible is very clear on this. Speaking in tongues is to be done in private not on display for others so as not to stumble or confuse. It is a personal gift from God.
I hope this doesn’t turn into a mean-spirited dialogue or monologue by an individual. Can’t be nice then say nothing at all.
So far it’s been pretty loving, I think.
Tried speaking in tongues for a long time. I was told to do it in faith that it was authentic. So I did. But I would do the same thing if someone asked me to fake it. It sure felt fake and silly. So I gave it up. If it ever happens, it happens.
Yeah, I grew up in the “Seek not; forbid not” group, so I sort of feel the same way.
Hello sorry I am not from America and Afrikaans speaking too. Lol please tell me what is the ‘ seek not, forbid not’ group?
Aletta, Afrikaans is a beautiful language. I think Jeremy means speaking in tongues is not something the church is seeking, but if it happens, tongues are not forbidden.
Thank you! 🙂 oh I see, makes sense now
Yes, Shawn got it. The church told us to not seek to have it, but to also not try to forbid it in others they start speaking in tongues.
Aletta, To explain further, there are groups (denominations) who believe that unless you speak in tongues, you are not a Christian (believer).
There are other groups believe that the gifts of the spirit, particularly those like healing, tongues, and prophecy, stopped, some say when the Bible was assembled into final form.
Personally, I also fall into the group that Shawn and Jeremy are in. I do believe that what I am to seek is the Kingdom of God.
In my lifetime (75 years) I’ve heard interesting stories about tongues. Two women I trusted told me of times when they were extremely vulnerable and the Spirit gave them this gift as a way to express the inexpressible, maybe. A third story I read was about a lonely man from a foreign country who walked by and heard someone pray in his language, obviously praying in tongues. I’ve also felt the sad side of this subject when I felt excluded because I didn’t pray this way. We certainly can’t put the Spirit in a box on this subject, can we?
Right. Good reminder here.
Yes I like this.
I THINK the Holy Spirit give gifts as it is needed when its needed and one may not have the same gift forever. I am not saying it is this way with everyone.
Yes, God sees us, God sees those in our presence, and the Holy Spirit “gives gifts as needed” as you say.
From personal experience i was in a church who has the whole congregation pray for 1/2 hour in tongues.The people in this church were leaders from Africa.A place who sees more supernatural then us because we feel the need to analyze the thing to death.When we did the atmosphere shifted lives were changed.When i was on a mission trip to Mexico i felt lead to go pray with the women who in that culture are outcasts one of ladies who came with me started singing in the spirit as i was we stopped each other in shock when we realized we were sing the same song the needs of the women were met with out an interrupter .I think our western ideas have prevented us from letting God outside our box of understanding.How often i have done this in my own walk.Im sure the sun standing still or the parting of the red sea shocked the people of the day.Speaking in tongues is a gift.
Thanks. I do think that the western scientific mindset causes us to miss some things.
I pray in tongues quietly at church, Bible studies, and in church meetings. A person does not have to speak out loudly unless they or someone else is there to interpret.
Always an interesting discussion.
Can you have the gifts of the Spirit without the Fruit of the Spirit? Therein lies the biggest problem.
Of course. Along with the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit we have all that pertains to the kingdom. Gifts are just that…a gift not based on performance but grace. It’s all about growth both Tree and fruit. I don’t think anything is instant. The giftings are a small but important part of our walk. Fruit is the bigger picture and no one can time alot that. Like Jesus said…first the blade, then the ear, then the fullness of the corn. Then it’s ready for harvest. Yes, we know them by their fruit but what was the Messiah really addressing with this statement?
Anyway, my dos centavos:)
Fruit does take time to grow. A gift without development of fruit can often be dangerous.
I like your thoughts here Susan Collins. It is often sad when a person operate in gifts one moment and angers and judge and swears the next.
Love is still more important than any gift. Corinthians 13.
Grace has many immediate effects. Institutional church life is designed to work much slower than Grace, Power, and Life!
Even Paul seems to struggled with his sinful nature. ” People who became Christians as adults know from experience that prior to believing in Jesus, they often struggled with sin and fought against the desires of their flesh, usually to no avail. Success in one area often came at the expense of greater failure in another.
wretched man Romans 7 Yet although Christians gain the illuminating and empowering influence of the Holy Spirit when we first believe in Jesus for eternal life, we all know that the struggle with sin did not cease. It continues daily. Yes, victory is now possible, for greater is He that is in us than He that is in the world, but this does not mean that the struggle against the flesh is gone. We too, along with Paul, often cry “Who will deliver me from this body of death?”Jeremy Myers — Romans 7
Susan Collins if we eat an ear of corn before it’s developed it won’t taste right. But it’s still corn. Just not ready for harvesting. We are encouraged to desire gifts and function in whatever we are gifted with. What’s missing is discipling. Someone mature enough with experience to mentor in the gifts of the HS.
Carol Wyatt Then you must have a greater gift. Perhaps healing or miracles or one of the other gifts.
Speaking in tongues does not necessarily mean other gifts. God gives the gifts as He sees fit. I believe in speaking in my prayer language quietly to the Lord but at home by myself I speak out loud. Got filled with the Holy Spirit and tongues by myself because I asked the Lord to bless me with both. Had no experience with the infilling or speaking in tongues
Priot to receiving those gifts. I am thankful for them, I treasure them and thank God for gifting me that way. I have the Lord with me at all times – God is so good all the time.
No spiritual gift is greater than another one.
1st Cor. 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts
So you think that’s referring to some kind of ranking system?
No Steve, just quoted you scripture. there are higher gifts.
I thought Paul was saying we should desire spiritual gifts that are a blessing and edification tool towards others, not the ones that benefit just ourselves.
One can quote Scripture while misunderstanding it 😉
A few years ago i copied 1st Cor. word for word, believe me, i understand it.
And taught it for six months in great detail at church
Didn’t intend to offend Steve. Blessing to you.
David Arthur Moore not agreeing or disagreeing, but what would you consider the ‘higher gifts’?
1st Cor. 14:5 Greater is one who propjesies than one who speaks in tongues unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
Though i was called to teach, my desire is the gifts of healing and miracles.
‘See me tie my bow tie. She come on a honda. I’ma gonna gouge your eye.’ (In Hebrew accent). Stolen from the Wittenberg Door years ago.
And ‘shanda babbara,’ as Geoff Bullock said to me in 1996. It’s never worked for me.
I have only been in one such meeting that I am quite certain that the real gift was evident…that was in a little Saskachewan homestead prayer meeting out on the prairie years ago when I was in your father;s Central Action Group…Cru….but this was during the summer not at school. It was an amazing meeting.
http://yuriystasyuk.com/why-i-changed-pentecostalism-is-as-clear-as-glossolalia/. Jeremy Myers
http://yuriystasyuk.com/is-speaking-in-tongues-biblical/ Jeremy Myers
http://yuriystasyuk.com/ten-hard-questions-about-speaking-in-tongues-glossolalia-and-xenoglossy/ Jeremy Myers
I grew agnostic, can still speak in tongues. Wrote down the syllables. Lots of repetitive ones.
That is very interesting. What do you think of that?
In the bible, gift of tongues was for purpose of allowing foreigners to understand what was being said, so I’ve always thought my daughter has the gift of tongues as she speaks several languages fluently and understands even more. I’m serious here. What do you think Jeremy Myers?
1st. Cor. 14:22 Tongues are for a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Alana Myers.
Yes, that very likely might be a modern application of tongues. She definitely has a gift for languages … or “tongues”
You can praying tongues at home you don’t have to do it just at church at church meetings…
http://www.freegraceresources.org/pentecostal.html
Oh brother, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Its a broken record.
Does Judge Judy speak in tongues? Just kidding. ?
I’ve spoken in tongues both my myself, and in services. I’ve also heard someone speak in tongues in a service, and interpreted for him, because I understood what he said. My “prayer language” is spoken usually only when I’m alone, and as you said, do not know what to say to God, thought I have tons of supplication. Usually, I can feel God’s presence strongly when I do this. God hears my heart, but Satan doesn’t. He only hears what he hears – he does not read your mind. God hears the words, and the heart, and provides for my needs.
I’ve spoken in tongues for over 10 years. I grew up being taught that it was not a modern-day gift.
But I researched, read books, bought a Commentary, etc. I never found anywhere that God said that tongues would stop working.
I have not only spoken it, but I have interpreted tongues, as well. Twice we had someone come into the church who were friends of our Russian members, who did not speak English very well. But whens someone spoke in tongues, they understood completely. And I know the person who spoke the tongues, and she does NOT know any language except English.
Fervently seek the gifts – ALL the gifts – of the Holy Spirit. They anoint with power and with a boldness that overrides any amounts of natural “shyness.”
If it interests you or any of your readers, I wrote a book called Nine Lies People Believe About Speaking in Tongues, and deal with many things I see come up in these comments like Paul said you can’t speak in tongues in a meeting unless you have an interpreter, speaking several languages allegedly being the same thing as speaking in tongues in the Bible, etc…
I find many of the times, the objection or concern many have for what tongues are comes from a misunderstanding of the purpose behind ONE of the diversities of tongues — there are at least four different kinds (diversities) of tongues mentioned in the Bible, (I’ve had readers of my book disagree with me and insist there’s even more).
What was happening in Acts being different from what was happening in Corinth that Paul was dealing with in his letter to them, and how many Christians opposed to tongues take the admonition of Paul’s with regard to public use in Corinthians and apply it to ALL the diversities of this gift rather than applying it to the one for corporate meetings. Paul is talking about the use of tongues in an assembly (corporate gift + interpretation), not personal use of tongues that edifies the person doing and revealing mysteries to them (God knows everything, the mysteries aren’t being spoke to or reveal to him 😛 )
If more people understood just what happens to our inner man (not our mind) when we pray in tongues/in the Spirit, more would do it and not find the “lack of understanding it with my mind” as not being an issue. The interpretation comes to the inner man in all sorts of forms.
Anyway, not trying to spam your comments in a self serving way. You mentioned you’re going to write a book on the subject, and I’d encourage you to get your hands on a copy of mine if not for anything other than “another perspective” when it comes to your research and prep.
Blessings
If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind (understanding) is unfruitful.
1 Cor 14:14
Paul says there “must” be an interpreter.
hey jeremy do you completely disagree with speaking in tongues?,do you believe its possible?
I do believe it is possible. But I think that when it occurs, it should be as we see it in Acts 2, where it is used to speak the Gospel to others in a language they understand.
I was raised Baptist and never knew about tongues until my son took me to a full gospel church. They ask people to come to the front and they would pray for you to be filled with the Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues. I didn’t go down to the front though my son encouraged me to. He was disappointed but it was just something I had never heard of except for Acts which I thought was just for the start of the church and after thinking about that I figured they were talking in the languages of the people listening.
But the next morning while reading my Bible and praying I told God if it was really of Him I want it. And from my belly came rivers of living water and I could not stop myself from speaking in tongues. I didn’t tell anyone for two weeks for I was processing it. But it so validated God cared about me and gave me this prayer language because I ask Him sincerely for it. Mine is not the gift for group gatherings but for edifying me and for praying when I have no more words to pray in my language. Praying in the spirit calms my mind. It is so sad it is abused and misused because it is amazing. I pray for all to desire this gift from our Heavenly Father. God bless you and your ministry. I enjoy your teachings.