{"id":19113,"date":"2013-06-07T09:00:57","date_gmt":"2013-06-07T17:00:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/?p=19113"},"modified":"2013-06-06T16:27:49","modified_gmt":"2013-06-07T00:27:49","slug":"random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/","title":{"rendered":"The Violence of God and Evil"},"content":{"rendered":"

I was thinking a bit more about the violence of God and the source of evil today (as these topics are consuming my thoughts recently), and I remembered a paper I wrote back in 1999 while at Denver Seminary for a class I had with Douglas Groothuis<\/a>. It was on the nature and source of evil.<\/p>\n

I was curious what I thought about this topic nearly fifteen years ago, so I waded through the files in a file cabinet I have lugged with me through fifteen moves<\/a>, and miraculously, found the paper!<\/p>\n

I remember thinking that my paper was “groundbreaking.” (What seminary student doesn’t think this about his every research paper?) When Dr. Groothuis gave my paper back to me, he gave me a good grade, but not because he agreed with me (he strongly disagreed). Instead, he graded me based on my research and thought process. (This, by the way, is one sign of a good professor… to grade based on research and thought, not based on whether or not the student agrees with the professor.)<\/p>\n

Here is what Dr. Groothuis wrote on the last page of my paper:<\/p>\n

\"God<\/p>\n

Guess what I concluded in my paper?<\/p>\n

I concluded much the same thing that I am writing about in my recent series on the violence of God in the Old Testament (see the link list at the bottom of this post). In my paper from 1999 I argued that although God did not cause evil, He is nevertheless somewhat morally responsible for it because He created a world where such evil is possible. The actual source of evil is within the free will of God’s creatures (humans and angels), and since these were gifts of God to His good creation, when these gifts were misused and abused to do things contrary to God’s will, evil resulted.<\/p>\n

Dr. Groothuis was not convinced. And I know from the comments on this blog that many of those who read this blog are not convinced either.<\/p>\n

I am okay with that! It is fine to disagree. I fully understand that what I am proposing is difficult and challenging. But the reason I am convinced of it is because I can think of no other way to (1) allow Jesus to truly represent the fullness of the Godhead (Col 2:9) and (2) maintain the inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture.<\/p>\n

\"GodIf God truly is violent and bloody, then during His life on earth, Jesus masked and hid this aspect of God, which indicates that He was not fully revealing God to us. But if Jesus truly is the exact representation of God (Heb 1:3), and if it is true that if we see Jesus we see the Father (John 15:7-9), and since Jesus never behaved violently toward His enemies, but told us to love them and serve them instead, and indeed, rather than killing them, Jesus died for His enemies, then this must be what Good looks like as well!<\/strong><\/p>\n

I can not make the pieces of this puzzle fit together in any other way. Even a little bit of killing and bloodshed by God is more than the zero amount of violence carried out by Jesus Christ.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Anyway, it was interesting for me to see that my conclusions from nearly 15 years ago have not changed all that much…<\/p>\n\"GodHow can a God who says \"Love your enemies\" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?<\/em><\/p>\r\n\r\n

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. \r\n\r\nLearn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group<\/a>\r\n\r\nI can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!\n

\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I know my theory about evil and the violence of God is new to most, but it is not new to me. I have held a form of this view for almost 15 years. But just as now, not everyone agrees with me. Here is a paper graded by Douglas Groothuis where he disagreed with me.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":19118,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_bbp_topic_count":0,"_bbp_reply_count":0,"_bbp_total_topic_count":0,"_bbp_total_reply_count":0,"_bbp_voice_count":0,"_bbp_anonymous_reply_count":0,"_bbp_topic_count_hidden":0,"_bbp_reply_count_hidden":0,"_bbp_forum_subforum_count":0,"_genesis_hide_title":false,"_genesis_hide_breadcrumbs":false,"_genesis_hide_singular_image":false,"_genesis_hide_footer_widgets":false,"_genesis_custom_body_class":"","_genesis_custom_post_class":"","_genesis_layout":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[495,1183,1213],"class_list":{"0":"post-19113","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"tag-theology-study-god","8":"tag-theology-sin","9":"tag-when-god-pled-guilty","10":"entry"},"yoast_head":"\nThe Violence of God and Evil<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"I know my theory about evil and the violence of God is new to most, but it is not new to me. I have held a form of this view for almost 15 years.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Violence of God and Evil\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I know my theory about evil and the violence of God is new to most, but it is not new to me. I have held a form of this view for almost 15 years.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Redeeming God\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/290798794274804\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/290798794274804\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2013-06-07T17:00:57+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2013-06-07T00:27:49+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"436\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"310\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Jeremy Myers\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@redeeminggod\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@redeeminggod\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Jeremy Myers\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Jeremy Myers\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/0df0211c3f7ba3d4c6cfa1f8411f481c\"},\"headline\":\"The Violence of God and Evil\",\"datePublished\":\"2013-06-07T17:00:57+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-06-07T00:27:49+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/\"},\"wordCount\":560,\"commentCount\":4,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/0df0211c3f7ba3d4c6cfa1f8411f481c\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg\",\"keywords\":[\"Theology of God\",\"Theology of Sin\",\"When God Pled Guilty\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/\",\"name\":\"The Violence of God and Evil\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2013-06-07T17:00:57+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-06-07T00:27:49+00:00\",\"description\":\"I know my theory about evil and the violence of God is new to most, but it is not new to me. I have held a form of this view for almost 15 years.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg\",\"width\":436,\"height\":310,\"caption\":\"God looks like Jesus\"},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"The Violence of God and Evil\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/\",\"name\":\"Redeeming God\",\"description\":\"Liberating you from bad ideas about God\",\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/0df0211c3f7ba3d4c6cfa1f8411f481c\"},\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":[\"Person\",\"Organization\"],\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/0df0211c3f7ba3d4c6cfa1f8411f481c\",\"name\":\"Jeremy Myers\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/eddb31e43c2836234b746787cbef8f12?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/eddb31e43c2836234b746787cbef8f12?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Jeremy Myers\"},\"logo\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\"},\"description\":\"Jeremy Myers writes about Scripture and theology in a way that redeems God and people from the prison of religion. He is a popular author and blogger and often gives away free eBooks to his blog subscribers.\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\",\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/290798794274804\",\"https:\/\/x.com\/redeeminggod\"]}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"The Violence of God and Evil","description":"I know my theory about evil and the violence of God is new to most, but it is not new to me. I have held a form of this view for almost 15 years.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"The Violence of God and Evil","og_description":"I know my theory about evil and the violence of God is new to most, but it is not new to me. I have held a form of this view for almost 15 years.","og_url":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/","og_site_name":"Redeeming God","article_publisher":"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/290798794274804","article_author":"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/290798794274804","article_published_time":"2013-06-07T17:00:57+00:00","article_modified_time":"2013-06-07T00:27:49+00:00","og_image":[{"width":436,"height":310,"url":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Jeremy Myers","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@redeeminggod","twitter_site":"@redeeminggod","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Jeremy Myers","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/"},"author":{"name":"Jeremy Myers","@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/0df0211c3f7ba3d4c6cfa1f8411f481c"},"headline":"The Violence of God and Evil","datePublished":"2013-06-07T17:00:57+00:00","dateModified":"2013-06-07T00:27:49+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/"},"wordCount":560,"commentCount":4,"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/0df0211c3f7ba3d4c6cfa1f8411f481c"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg","keywords":["Theology of God","Theology of Sin","When God Pled Guilty"],"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/","url":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/","name":"The Violence of God and Evil","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg","datePublished":"2013-06-07T17:00:57+00:00","dateModified":"2013-06-07T00:27:49+00:00","description":"I know my theory about evil and the violence of God is new to most, but it is not new to me. I have held a form of this view for almost 15 years.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/06\/face-of-god-in-jesus.jpg","width":436,"height":310,"caption":"God looks like Jesus"},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/random-thoughts-on-the-violence-of-god-and-evil\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"The Violence of God and Evil"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/","name":"Redeeming God","description":"Liberating you from bad ideas about God","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/0df0211c3f7ba3d4c6cfa1f8411f481c"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":["Person","Organization"],"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/0df0211c3f7ba3d4c6cfa1f8411f481c","name":"Jeremy Myers","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/eddb31e43c2836234b746787cbef8f12?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/eddb31e43c2836234b746787cbef8f12?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Jeremy Myers"},"logo":{"@id":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/"},"description":"Jeremy Myers writes about Scripture and theology in a way that redeems God and people from the prison of religion. He is a popular author and blogger and often gives away free eBooks to his blog subscribers.","sameAs":["https:\/\/redeeminggod.com","http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/290798794274804","https:\/\/x.com\/redeeminggod"]}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/19113"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=19113"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/19113\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/19118"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=19113"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=19113"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/redeeminggod.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=19113"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}