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Well, what a surprise — yet another liberal ‘teacher’ seeking to excuse an unnatural act. Try Romans 1, an apostolic letter written by a follower of Christ called Paul, who met with Jesus on the road to Damascus.
There is a passage where Paul said IN MY OPINION, because he said he does not have a command from the Lord. 1 Cor 7:25 – I just see that there can be many more of these kinds of things in the bible?
There is another passage where Jesus and disciples wanted to enter a Samaritan village – James and John went ahead, but came back and said the people do not want to ‘invite’ them in – then they said to Jesus – send fire from heaven and burn their village. These are people who had front row seats to how Jesus operated! These guys also wrote books in the bible?
“Unnatural “. Please define “natural ” first. And then make a list of all things that are unnatural and see which among those apply to you. Every mechanism in the human body left uninterfered is governed by the laws of nature. If a person is born with a deformed limb, that too is natural. And secondly, research deeper and understand the context in which Paul said what he said. Thirdly, approach scripture with an open mind and without preconceived ideas. God bless.
Hello Ivan! My name is Maria. You seem like a very smart man. I myself have read this passage, however after doing more research, I have found some very intresting facts.
In Romans 1, Paul is taking about worshiping false gods. Then he moved into the words of “and their women exchanged…”. Yes, he is talking about homosexuality. However, the part most people don’t know (and you can research if you want) is that in Rome it was a common ritual for two women or two men to do shameful things for worship practices. Paul is not taking about free loving sex between two people, instead he is noting the practices for worshiping idols.
Now, you are probably going to hate me or say something like I am dumb, but I ask that you hear me out. Please know that this man who wrote this artical is just showing the other side of the agrument. If you want truth, you must explore and see all sides. Thankyou so much for your comment. I hope I cleared up some things. Also you may say there are more versus about homosexuality, and you are very right. I request that you look into and do some research on this topic though. It does not hurt to see other peoples views, Understanding them is very important for good conversation. Just remember to always come in with an open mind! Thankyou so much for listening to me and I hope you have a great day.
Ha! Well, I am by no means liberal. This post wasn’t about what Paul said, or what Moses wrote, just what Jesus said… and did you read any excuses for homosexuality in that post?
hi,
i think that because it wasn’t recorded in the gospels that Jesus didn’t express his opinion on homosexuality doesn’t prove that he never talked or taught about it. we have to bear in mind that the Gospels as the rest of scripture are very condenced writings and somehow incomplete.
having ssid that i think that for God sin is sin and only sin he can’t forgive is the unpardonable sin of unbeliving that Jesus is the the word made flesh who paid the penalty for sins on the cross at calvary
he loves homosexuals as much as heterosexuals. — unconditional —
I love it!! 😉
Good job, Jeremy!!
heh, heh…
I’m really wanting to read this but can’t. It’s not letting me…. ???
Nice..and my sentiments exactly..I think your answer to your post here can also answer: “What Jesus Taught About Hell”
Ah, since the Word of God is inspired and Jesus is the Word made flesh, I believe the whole Bible is what He taught. And did He not also teach on marriage?
Amber Adams Gomez, you are not alone in having problems reading the post…. As it turns out, you are not able to read the post because there is nothing there. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality!
Could be that Jesus being a Jew and knowing the Law, He felt He didn’t have to say anything about it…He didn’t have to bring up the obvious do you think? Now He did speak of divorce because…”He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”…The Jews (just like the church now) got flippant concerning divorce…I feel Jesus didn’t have to mention homosexuality because the Law was clear to any Jew at that time…Paul had to mention it because he was an apostle to the Gentiles who I think were more prone to homosexuality behavior…I’m though not as learned as you…just my thought after 15 years of thinking about this issue…The church has a sacred duty to all…even gays…we need a unified loving answer to give them…but it must be the truth…because only the truth can set us free…
I find your comment interesting. What is your background as far as studying the scriptures, and do you teach?
Just 37 years having a saving faith in Christ…reading a lot about church history…reading books by spiritual giants such as Tozer, Ravenhill, Finney, Spurgeon, Chambers, etc…reading and listening to such teachers as Winkie Pratney, Ravi Zacharias, etc…and just trying to read the scriptures and asking God to guide me on a right path.
Jesus also never mentioned many other things which are well known to be immoral, such as paedophilia or rape. Does that mean we can accept those as natural?
Natural is the way in which something is designed to work. Is anal sex natural? Is the anus designed to receive? No, otherwise it would self lubricate like a vagina, and the muscles and walls would be stronger and thicker.
God also makes clear his natural plan, for men and women to be joined. God doesn’t makes errors, he wouldn’t say that as an absolute if there were exceptions.
So there is both Divine and scientific evidence against homosexual acts. – which even a same sex married couple would engage in. How could God support a union – even in the name of love, if it leads to sin? It is contradictory, something God is not.
Luke Patterson, good point! Most people think “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is about hell… but it isn’t!
Mollie Lyon, yes, he did teach about marriage, but in the context of divorce. When Christians are ready to follow Jesus’ teaching on divorce, we can then begin to talk about what the rest of the Bible says about homosexuality. Until then, we should extend the same grace toward gay people that we extend toward divorced people.
Cheap grace? I disagree with you. The Bible is very clear about sin. Of course, we are all sinners falling short of the glory of God. But after forgiveness, we need to be holy as God is holy. I think that is very clear in both the old and new testament. We are not governed by how other people live but by the Word of God. Christopher Yuan spelled it out very well in ‘Out of a Far Country.’ And my point is Jesus is the Word- the whole Bible is His teaching.
We are not saved by our deeds – if you do believe homosexuality is a sin – you just sin differently or are you perfect? So getting into heaven – your deeds do not determine that! I do believe Rev 22:12 that says Jesus comes with reward and each according to their deeds – so what we do after we give Jesus our hearts does matter! Then He will be the judge! I like comment on treat gays then the same as divorcees! Heterosexuality is also not a guarantee to get to heaven?
We are not saved by the works of the law but by by grace through faith in Christ. And yes, man will be rewarded according to his deeds, according to how much use he made out of the grace that was measured out to him. What is going to determine the reward is the degree of use that man made out of the grace that was proportioned him. We need to be clear here about what is meant by ‘deeds.’ It is not the external observance to the law that will be the determinant of the reward, for if it were so, love, grace and faith would not be necessary; we could as well be handsomely rewarded by being a Pharisee. As to whether homosexuality is sin or not, let God be the judge. Even if it is sin, God does not expect you to obey without first enabling you with the power (grace) to obey. We cannot change our hearts; it is the work of the Holy Spirit. But we can choose to serve God; he will then work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. So if you have chosen to serve Him, if you have surrendered your will, leave the rest to God. Inspite of having done your part, if God does not work conviction in your heart regarding the “sinfulness” of your homosexuality, be rest assured, your homosexuality is not going to keep you from receiving your just reward. Please refrain from twisting scripture to sound as if man is going to be judged by the external works of the law.
Brilliant
It’s not a question of if homosexual acts are a sin or not, the bible is clear it is, despite modern society looking for every way to dismiss or challenge scripture.
However what I am stuck on here is what about repentance? The grace of Christ only applies to those who offer their sins to the cross, and rest assured that the Holy Spirit would always convict of sin. God hates sin, and we are separated from him by sin. I can’t imagine the Holy Spirit keeping quiet on certain sins because it’s not the right time yet. Sin is sin, and it repulses God. If a homosexual is not being convicted of sin then presumably the Holy Spirit is not in them. Perhaps they died spiritually through repeated ignorance of the warnings.
What I do know is that I have some authority to speak on this matter because I was once gay, but it was only once I accepted it as a sin and offered it to Christ that things started to change. God responded to my surrender. Now I am almost fully healed, and I’ve began looking at women, which now requires self discipline to avoid heterosexual sins.
God is also clear that we are either for or against him. Those who don’t respond to the truth are so because the truth is not in them. They are from a different father. In order to be reborn we must sacrifice our flesh with its passions and desires, ALL of them. We can’t do it through our own strength, but by surrendering it all to God his grace is enough.
An active homosexual has still chosen to cling on to his own sexual desires, which means he has not surrendered his flesh, and thus has not been reborn. Jesus says “it is impossible for anyone to enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless he is reborn.” He used the word impossible.
I’m sorry to say, but I clearly perceive the undertones of person who is still held captive to works and who is judgmental about the so called “sins” of those whom the Holy Spirit has given up on. What dares you to assume upon yourself the authority to speak on behalf of those who have been born with an orientation that wasn’t of their making. How naive can one get. Immerse yourself SOLELY on the LOVE OF CHRIST, and then you will be able to view and feel things in the Light of His Love. Sin is sin, no matter what, and what is going to keep you from being saved is disobedience to the GOSPEL, not the works of the law. As to what the Scriptures have to say about homosexual orientation, my brother, you not only have to do deeper research, but most importantly approach Scripture in the Spirit of Love, as a child who knows nothing, seeking the guidance of his Father. Please do not make your conclusions based on your own personal experience. We all have our experiences and testimonies to narrate, and yet not to be judgemental about the spiritual lives of others. Every day I choose in prayer that God works in me to “will and to do according to His good pleasure “. Now that is total surrender, not the obligatory works of the law. The works of the law will do nothing to give you salvation, in fact it will do the reverse. The Spirit of the law is all what matters, and the driving and motivating factor behind that spirit is L. O. V. E. God decides how or when to work out His will in us. And while doing so, He takes into account the circumstances of the past present and future that has shaped, is shaping, and will shape the life of a person. May God work in you to grow in His grace so that His Love may shine in and through you to make you look at the lives of others through the prism of His Love. God bless you.
Steven thanks for your testimony I agree with your view that homosexuality is not an orientation we are not born that way but its a choice.We can choose to live by what our flesh dictates or we can live by what God reveals through his word and by his holy spirit.If we are serious about following God we chose to follow him so it doesnt matter whether gay or straight our choice is to follow God with all our heart.I have never been gay but have battled and was overcome by my fleshly desires not until i turned from them and asked the holy spirit to help me have i been changed for that i will always be grateful to the Lord.So in that sense we are no different our testimonys are important and are powerful.Thank you for your witness and may the Lord continue to use you as his vessel to touch lives and hearts for him.brentnz
Steven,
Thank you for your testimony. We were all born into sin and I thank my Father God for sacrificing His only son for us just to set us free. We are not to continue in sin afterwards so He left us His Holy Spirit to guide us into all truths. That is grace and love. I have been a christian for almost 40 years. I have been through a beautiful journey and it has only gotten better and better. I love Him so much! When you are reborn it is very, very difficult to sin. You can sin, and your flesh enjoy it, but then afterwards the separation of that fellowship with the Spirit is felt and it is so awful. He never leaves us – we leave Him. But He is just to forgive us when we repent and turn back. Over time, the desire to be in His grace overrides the desire to sin. What is beautiful is when you finally realize that He is able to take away the desire to sin. Some desires are harder to overcome than others, especially if we believe the lies of the enemy that they are okay and we were born that way and it is our nature and we must live with it. All a lie!
There have been so many good words of encouragement on here. One person pointed out to be in the Word, and she is so right. The Word transforms your heart. I was once challenged to read the whole bible in 35 days. You have to read 40 chapters a day to do it, along with prayer and fasting. I was working for a Mission so I was given the time to accomplish it. Reading it through quickly like that, I was brought to my knees in utter repentance. I saw the idols of the heart of man. I saw God’s heart and how merciful and patient He really is. It opened my eyes like nothing else. You see more of the whole picture, which I have always been a big picture type person. Wow! I love Him more than when I began, if that is possible. When I was a new christian I was told a lot of mis-information by a lot of well meaning christians who were just repeating what they were taught by others. When I started reading for myself, I saw that a lot of those things were not in the bible, or were twisted. Anyway, the Word transforms. Everyone pray that your eyes are opened to His Truth and His Holy Spirit will open them. Ask for the Daily bread. So I encourage taking in as much as possible each day and be transformed by the renewing of your mind. God bless you Steven for your encouragement!
Sorry, I don’t like to disagree with people I don’t know publicly. You don’t know me and will think I’m some judgmental,unforgiving person. I’m a nurse. I have cared for many people. I do believe the hymn, Jesus, Friend of sinners. But we have to know the Bible. But He always wanted people to do the right things. I scanned through the Sermon on the Mount this morning. His standards are very high. Thank God for the Holy Spirit that enables us to live to those standards.
Mollie you sound like a lovely person someone who cares for others but its not about knowing the bible though that is important.Its about having a relationship with a living person called Jesus Christ and living our lives for him.His standards are impossible for us to keep we keep failing if we try to live them in our strength.That is why we need Jesus to help us and especially his holy spirit.So if you havent made a decision for Christ now is as good as any.Admit you are a sinner we are are believe that he died for you and ask him to come into your life as Lord and savior.You may go to church or know about him that is not enough to be saved.John 3:16 says for God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son and whosoever believes in him has eternal life.Mollie this word is for you i pray the Lord would draw you to himself and show you the truth.regards brentnz
Mollie Lyon, I actually teach costly grace. It was extremely costly to God so that He could offer it freely to us. So I teach free grace. Regarding sin, I just get frustrated that homosexuality is mentioned at most three times in the Old Testament and three times in the New, but some Christians and churches make it out to be the worst of all sins. But the Bible talks way more about divorce, greed, gluttony, pride, most of which are overlooked in our churches. Let us first take are of the pile of logs in own eyes before trying to help our brother with the speck in his.
I love people despite a sin in their life which with revelation from God will be remedied by the covering of Christ. The problem with the sin of homosexuality is that those who practice it claim it as an identity of who they are. That is what grieves me so. God sees them as one of His creatures. They are no different than any of His creatures who are IN sin who He came to redeem back to Himself from sin. But how can you be redeemed from something that you try to justify as not a sin? It is not the believers who are being unforgiving of the persons sin, but the sinner who says that it is not a sin at all. The believers are trying to point out the truth of the matter with God’s word. Before I gave my life over to Christ for Him to show me all things in myself that were contrary to His purposes (which He is still lovingly working on), I would try to justify that what I was doing was okay because He must of made me this way because I couldn’t overcome it. You just want to quit fighting with it so you have to make it okay some how. So you agree with the twisting of the truth, as it was twisted in the beginning, and in doing so you lose something very dear and beautiful. You lose a relationship with the Author of Truth. Adam was covered and then lost sight of that covering when his eyes were opened into a realm of himself being his own god and then saw himself as naked (there is so much to this). Our first Adam still gets in this track over and over today by agreeing with the twisting. God only sees one man now though. The second man Jesus Christ who redeemed the first to make One New Man who is now covered. It is futile to try to change or redeem ourselves to God, which the Law or Old Testament was to show us. Every thing in it is types and shadows to point us to Jesus (Yeshua) being the only way back to being in relationship (Covenant) with God. I don’t say all of this as some philosophy to puff up, but to help someone trapped in thinking they are okay in sin if somehow they can make it not sin. I cry out to God all the time – please keep me pliable and don’t give me over to a reprobate mind! Don’t let me get carried away by my own lusts and lose sight of this beautiful relationship we have that is only made possible through Jesus being the sacrifice. There is no sacrifice I can do to replace that. Through time, God has worked out and resolved different sins or misconceptions I have including those that work in my members. Some swiftly and some over time. He completely took sinful lust away. I couldn’t do it – He did it when I gave it over to Him and prayed for the Mind of Christ in this. His word gives you the answers, like resist the devil and he will flee for one. To those being trapped into thinking that God’s word can be twisted to escape the war in your members and reach that escape by receiving a reprobate mind, pray with all of your heart for His truth with a repentant heart to know His heart on this matter. If His word says “”Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ ? So they are no longer two, but one.””, then humble yourself to His truth and count it better to have your name written in the Book of Life than the the temporary satisfactions of a life separate from Him.
You mean “must have”, not “must of”, and there should have been a possessive apostrophe on “persons”, though – to be fair – your errors with English grammar are probably less serious than others that you are making 🙂
?
I’m glad I ‘m saved by grace and not by my proper grammer
Miss Beck i think you have a really good point about how do they know that it is a sin if they are not told that was my arguement when the church asked whether they should allow homosexuals into leadership.The answer is yes if they admit and turn from there sin but no if they dont.The same reason that a pastor who commits adultery wouldnt lead the church.The other side to that is if they are not told whose responsible if we know and do nothing there blood would be on our heads.Because they are going to hell because nobody told them to turn away from sin that was my concern.I challenged the speakers that day and asked i only have one question and that is is homsexuality a sin because its important if we dont acknowledge the sin there is no forgiveness.Like you i was powerless yto change my sinful living i wasnt gay but i wasa sinner but the Lord changed me and is continuing to change me so that i am being conformed into his image the same as you.Thanks for sharing and may he continue to help you be all you can be in him.regards brentnz
You are so right about that/ But then again, is any sin worse than another? I did want to go with what you wrote. But homosexuality is also mentioned. I’d much rather sit down with a cup of coffee and discuss this with an open Bible.
Jeremy myers, LOL. I really hope I’m not the only one who didn’t get that. 🙂 But I do totally agree with you on Christian’s should extend the same grace on homosexuals as we do divorced people. Philip yancey talks about it in his book “What’s so amazing about grace” Awesome book!!! Sometimes as Christians we can be so judgemental and harsh to people who sin differently than us.
Amber, guilty. I thought my computer froze : ).
Amber Adams Gomez, no you are not the only one. Here, on my blog, and through email, I had lots of people say the post was removed, or they couldn’t see the text, or whatever. Even my wife! Ha!
Jesus also never explicitly teaches on bestiality. My point being that taking a member of the set of all things Jesus never explicitly taught on and positing, if only by implication, that his silence is an endorsement of that thing is not a valid foundation for making a sound argument. While any topic is always worthy of discussion due to the merits of human curiosity in the search for meaning and moral understanding, I find the approach of ill founding.
I am not saying one thing or the other on homosexuality. If you read some sort of endorsement of homosexuality in the post above, you might want to go read the post again and point it out to me.
All I am pointing out is what Jesus taught…. which is nothing.
Viseral you could argue that Jesus did speak about homosexuality and bestiality as its in the word and scripture is the inspired word of God Jesus is God As God he inspired that word so he did speak it.or spoke it through others? At the end of the day its not worth focusing on a specific sin it achieves nothing sin is sin and the wages of sin is death that is why Jesus came to give us life.Better question is do you know Jesus.? brentnz
I have “heard” this argument often before, but it is disappointing since it leaves out a crucial passage. In Matthew chapter 19, Jesus is speaking to his disciples about the holy responsibility of marriage between a man and a woman. When the disciples asked how so stringent a command could be upheld, Jesus said, in verse 11, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given.” Marriage, traditional marriage, is not for everyone? Then He, as he was won’t to do during his visit to Earth, redefined what had been a religious standard. In the next verse Jesus said, ” For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” Was The Lord, the creator of Mankind and the observer of us since the beginning saying some were surgically altered before they were born, or was he saying that some were not born with the nature to marry as described just earlier? There were three types of Man described: ones who chose celibacy to dedicate themselves to God’s service, such as monks, priests, or nuns; those castrated by others, these are traditional eunuchs; and those who were “born that way.” I, and many other students of the Word of God, believe that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Creator and savior of every person’s soul if they choose to accept his gift, told his closest followers that some were born differently, that some are not attracted to the opposite gender. Jesus did speak of homosexuals. And He acknowledged their being. A better, more complete treatment of this passage may be found at http://sweettp.tripod.com
Hmm. So you are saying those who have “been so from birth” are homosexual?
What say you on this passage Jeremy? It never hit me that way before. I read it as “from birth,” meant A sexual. I will have to rethink it.
Mike, eunuchs and homosexuals are different. Some are born eunuchs and that’s absolutely true; its called eunuchoidism and such individuals have a genetic makeup XXY. Jesus was talking about such individuals. Homosexuality is not mentioned here.
So, how can you say that people can be born eunuchs, but not homosexual. Homosexuals know from a very young age that they are different. They don’t know what it is until later, but they do know something. Speaking from personal experience and many friends and others I have spoken with.
I love it. I had to open this three times to realize the content. I’ve got to say tho that I am always so amused(?) by responders who work to enforce what they believe Jesus said, words, but all too often miss the example of His life and actions. So much grace offered and some how we “Christians” then get to decide how it’s metered out. We, I believe, are missing the point. We are all sinners, Christ died for all, His grace is for all. Stop trying to develop the next system to ensure we police ourselves to somehow be “good enough” to truly be worthy of Christs work. We are not worthy. The worth is in/ through Christ alone. Don’t get me wrong Christ is the Word, and His words as written in the bible are significant. Look at the interconnection.
Thanks! Yes, many get confused and think my website isn’t working. But it is! What you see above is what Jesus said.
I agree with you, Jeremy. Just like there are born eunuchs, there are also homosexuals who have been so since birth, those who cannot attribute their orientation to any past incidents in their lives. I was just talking about the context in the Scripture where what was being mentioned was about eunuchs being born that way. Thereby, what I was trying to say is that the Bible is in fact silent on homosexuality (as an orientation) unlike what others like to claim. I’m with you, Jeremy, on this point. ?
Just on this point? What about all the other points on this site? Ha! Just kidding.
Honestly, hand on my heart, you are like fresh air blowing over the muck of religion and religious bigotry. I see and feel the love of Christ in your ministry, and ultimately that is what really matters in drawing hearts to Christ. God bless you and your ministry, Jeremy.
In Matthew chapter 7. verses 1-2, Jesus says, “Judge not, that ye be not judged; For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Mollie. You say Jesus standards are very high. You are right. He commands us to be perfect. You say to thank God he gives us the power to obey his commands. I do not have that power. I cannot be perfect. If you have that power you are the first since Jesus. If forgiveness is premised on us making a promise to keep all Gods commands then it is premised on us making a promise that we know we can’t keep. Are you sure you wish to say that?
Giles the only way to live the scriptures is in Christ through his holy spirit if we try and obey the word without him we find we cant.But in Christ all things are possible reading what she wrote she is not saved.brentnz
It is time for Christians to actually “follow” or act like Christ did in regards to other people’s sins. In dealing with sinners He did not judge anyone’s sin, but instead, He loved them and extended grace to them all. His only judgments came against the religious leaders who were judged not for their sins but, because they lived in continual judgment of any who did not act just like they did and because they failed to extend grace and love to those who needed it the most. Christ’s words “Woe to you scribes and pharisees…..” need to be heard by many “Christians” today.
I very seriously doubt that this article is accurate. The likelihood that Jesus never mentioned or taught on the subject seems slim. What we know is that when others (mainly Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were inspired to write their gospel accounts, they did not include any of Jesus’ statements explicitly discussing the subject of homosexuality. It is important that we remember what we have in the Bible.
Yes, you are right that Jesus may have taught something on the subject and it just wasn’t recorded for us in Scripture.
But if so, how does that help us? We are left guessing as to what He might have said.
My personal journey has me in a place where I am wrestling with what does “help us.” So, I bring it up here because I have really enjoyed your discourse on many subjects. You might not like where this is headed and your readers will probably assume I am taking this to place I am not going. Keep in mind that as I reply, I can’t possibly say everything I need on the subject, but here goes my attempt at a couple of key points:
It helps us to know that every word of Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc is not captured in the Bible because:
– We will always be challenged to understand the fullness of the message the authors were conveying to their audience. And, on top of that, understanding the fullness of message disguised as a message to an audience but intended for us 1000s of years later. Or, maybe we are taking this too far…
– More importantly, the power in us collectively, the resurrection power of God, the Holy Spirit, the full Word of God, is much more powerful than words confined by the human constraints of ink and paper. However, inspired the text may be, it cannot ultimately compare to the Word of God that created heaven and earth, that raised Christ from the dead, that lives in each one of the priesthood of believers. It might be harder, less precise to learn via this power, but we are more likely to come to Truth. We will be challenged to rightly discern those that only sound like they are preaching the Word of God from those that truly are.
So, we aren’t left guessing (and I am not saying the Bible is not a part of this)…He promised a comforter, he told us we would hear his voice. So, we seek the Kingdom, we listen for His voice, we are comforted by the Comforter…and in sharing the seeking, listening and comforting one to another, we learn. We fail, we un-learn, we re-learn, and we continually shape our minds, our hearts , our core to be more like the Trinity.
I am sorry for how my choice of English words has gotten in the way of the message I wish to communicate. I pray that the Holy Spirit will intervene and guide us through this concept. I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide more and more of us each day as we wrestle with the divisive subject of homosexuality.
Ken something i have wrestled in my mind about for a while is that the word is the inspired word of God so it cannot be discerned through logic or intellect it is through revelation through the holy spirit.We dont mention it nor think it important but the holy spirit is the mind of Christ so he is an authority though he often is not acknowledged so i agree with you on that point.Many times he surprises me with fresh insights he gives me from the word.brentnz
Right Jeremy, you always seem to look at things in the right perspective. Are we supposed to keep guessing about the things that have no mention in scripture or about things which Christ might or might not have said? When the love of Christ is the motivating factor, we will always see things in the right perspective, just as Christ would see.
Yes! The love of Jesus is the guiding and compelling factor for all our behavior and views. Love is our heremeneutic by which we read and understand Scripture.
As I read this article and replies, I have to admit we have no recorded words on JESUS’S stance on homosexuality. But can I argue that, since JESUS ,who HIMSELF says in
Luke 11:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” and earlier says in Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel,
that I, being a Gentile, the words HE spoke don’t pertain to me? Can I commit adultery? what about stealing? bearing false witness? Come on, HE was speaking to a Jewish audience, commanded HIS disciples not go to Gentiles, talking about things pertaining to Jewish laws. Someone show me where I am wrong.
This page is not user friendly. I’m on an android phone and opened this link in chrome, the only thing I can see is the bold black title, the menu buttons and a large blank white space before the comments section. Unfortunately, I too can not read this. And when I tried using the buttons on the menu, they don’t so anything for me, there seems to be a dead link and no other pages open. Please fix and send a revised link to my email. Thanks.
Tasha, the post itself is purposely a blank page, because there is no record that Jesus said anything on the topic. That is the point of the post. Maybe Jesus did or did not address the issue, but there is no record of him doing so.
Two thoughts –
1.
Jesus clearly expressed His views on heterosexual versus homosexual relationships in Matthew 19:4
“And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female”
See Ephesians 3:9 and Colossians 1:16 for who made them.
2.
Since all scripture is given by inspiration of God, why would you not look at the entirety of scripture on a given subject instead of what did Jesus say about it? All scripture is from God so Jesus did directly speak on the subject in places other than the gospels.
Craig i agree totally on point 2 timothy 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.
In the jewish culture homosexuality would have been like adultery they would have been stoned for those sins Jesus would have known that remembering that his audience was jewish.
Rene you said “What dares you to assume upon yourself the authority to speak on behalf of those who have been born with an orientation that wasn’t of their making.”
I dont believe that that is true given Gods word its clear in scripture that homosexuality is a sin like all sins its a choice you make you can sin oir you can not sin its simple.I believe we turn to sin as our hearts are deceitfully wicked if it wasnt for the holy spirit none us would turn from sin as he convicts us.God has given us the option to overcome sin through Jesus Christ he has even sent his holy spirit to be overcomers in this life sin shall not have dominion over us..The word tells us that the wages of sin is death like all sin the way is to repent and turn away from it whatever the sin is.Why Judge him when he made the right choice to turn from sin and follow Jesus .brentnz
Jesus may not have said anything about homosexuality but the parable of the woman caught in adultery is not so much about her sin but is a universal call to all sinners to turn from sin and trust him as he is the one who saves us as he did the woman once saved we should go and sin no more.That applies to both straight or gay brentnz
I can’t quite read this article as it is not showing up on my screen.
But are there more articles about this topic?
I am a Christian and I fall in love with women. I don’t want random hookups. I want a relationship and a marriage and the chance to raise children. Is this something God might be okay with? I am not concerned with what the other Christians think about this but I am concerned about how God thinks. I love God very much and I don’t like making bad choices. But my conscience isn’t sending off any alarm bells with this. When I date women or think about an awesome Christian woman or going to couples bible studies that does not feel wrong. But if I think of a husband in those situations it feels all unnatural, weird and fake. Can it really be wrong to fall in love with a Christian of the same sex and to marry that person? (Better to marry then to burn with lust) Even if it is wrong wouldn’t Jesus sacrifice cover everything anyway?
Emma…
You are seeing the article just fine.
The reason you cannot “read” the article is because … the entire article is blank. No words were written. Why? Because Jesus said nothing about homosexuality.
Jeremy, your blank response was indeed clever (and even a bit humorous) but not altogether accurate.
I. While it’s true that we have no record of Jesus addressing this issue during His earthly soujourn, he certainly offered clarification via the Holy Spirit whom He sent to speak His words (John 16: 12-14). For example, the Spirit guided what Paul wrote in such a way that the apostle recorded and taught exactly what God desired (2 Tim 3: 16-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Hence, Jesus continued teaching and managed to address this subject succinctly through Paul (Romans 1:26-27; 1 Cor 6: 9-10; 1 Tim 1: 9-10).
What Christians often miss is that Jesus did not stop speaking with the close of the Gospels. While Jesus was still on the earth, He told His disciples that He had much more to say to them (John 16:12). He promised that the Holy Spirit would come and guide them into all truth. This is a promise from Jesus Himself that the word that the Holy Spirit would speak through the disciples would be Chrit’s Own words (John 16:13). In this way the Spirit would glorify Jesus (John 16:14).
Of course, the Holy Spirit did just that. As the church was forming, the Spirit spoke Jesus’ words to the writers of the New Testament. Thus all scripture (which, according to 2 Peter 3:16, included Paul’s writings) is “God breathed” (2 Tim 3:16) and trustworthy. It stands to reason that Father, Son, and Spirit are aligned in thought & teaching and would not misguide their select human scribes.
Since God exists eternally as Father, Son, and Spirit…and since Jesus Himself is God the Son (John 1:1), the entirety of the New Testament is the word of Christ (cf. Col 3:16). Thus, even the words not appearing in red type are nevertheless the Lord of the Church speaking to His Church. Quite realistically, then, it can be said that Jesus’ ministry continued after His ascension.
This issue is one of simple semantics and boils down to the following question (and what people really want to know): “Did Jesus ultimately address the subject of homosexuality?” Yes, He did; clearly, and more than once (and thankfully within the realm of grace). This issue hinges squarely on one’s faith in the inspiration and harmony of the scriptures.
II. Secondly, whenever Jesus spoke about marriage, He affirmed it as an institution between a male and female. In Matthew 19, the Pharisees asked Him about divorce, hoping to trap Him into disagreeing with Moses and therefore finding reason for condemning Him.
If Jesus wanted to simply and efficiently answer their question about divorce, He could have done so by immediately skipping to verse 5: “Have you not read that the two become one flesh?” That’s really the answer to the question. That noted, why then does Jesus begin with the statement in verse 4 by reminding the Pharisees that “God made human beings male and female”? For two reasons, at least. First, He makes this point to underscore that marriage, by its very nature, is a divinely-ordained institution — that the originator of marriage is the Creator Himself. Second, He emphasizes this point to clarify that the institution of marriage exists only between one man and one woman. The husband-wife relationship illustrates the complimentary and unity-in-diversity that characterizes God’s own nature as One Being who exists eternally in three Persons.
III. Thirdly (and this has been noted by others), a great portion of Jesus’ ministry related to Israel and those familiar with the Law of Moses. These people were living in an age under the Mosiac covenant, which explicitly condemned homosexuality (Lev 18:22, 20:13). Unless there was some precipitating issue that would force Jesus to comment, the only reasonable conclusion — esp. in light of the fact that Jesus viewed the Old Testament as the very word of God (e.g., Matt 23:43) which was infallible (John 10:35) — is that His view of homosexuality was the Old Testament’s view (i.e. God’s view) of homosexuality.
Also noteworthy is the way in which Jesus dealt with certain obvious questions. In response He would often confound his inquisitors by simply asking in turn: “What does it say in the law?” (cf. Luke 10:26)…as if God’s people should already know.
Saying (or even implying) that Jesus’ silence in the Synoptics is tantamount to an absence of clear teaching is to engage in the logical fallacy of “reasoning from silence,” which is built upon shaky rationality. As noted by others here, Jesus does not explicitly teach about beastiality, rape or incest, yet should we conclude that “the jury is out” on these behaviors? (Heaven’s no!) It can be safely established that Jesus implicitly taught on homosexuality because He continually affirmed and upheld the very law in which the prohibition was contained.
Considering the detail and clarity of the Mosiac Law (given by God Himself), was there really a need for Jesus to underscore every single teaching? It can be argued that some things in the word of God were so clear they did not require further explanation.
IV. Had a religious leader, for example, cornered Jesus about a certain person who was practicing homosexuality, Jesus might have first deferred to the letter of God’s law. But of course, before any self-rightous person set out to stone anyone, Jesus would have stood between offender and accuser and said, “He who is without sin cast the first stone” (John 8:7). Thankfully, grace was there in person.
This leads neatly to another relevant question: Had Jesus met a homosexual (which is highly likely and in keeping with the path of His ministry), what would The Master have to say? First, we must recall the delicate times when our Lord addressed sexual sin and from there make use of the instructive examples.
We have the account of the woman caught in adultery (John 8: 1-11). There are important lessons here for both the woman and the angry mob. First and foremost, Jesus loved this woman and had radical compassion upon her (while delivering cutting words to the crowd). Jesus certainly has a lesson about judging others; however, what people often forget is that Jesus took this woman aside and told her not to continue in this behavior (v. 11), and I can image He did so quite gently. Nevertheless, he did not shrink back from calling what she was doing “sin.”
Some may ask, “Why did Jesus tell this woman to ‘go and sin no more’ if sinlessness is impossible?” Jesus was not requiring sinless perfection. He was stressing that she should now actively try and resist this behavior as it was indeed harmful. The issue was not (and is not) “if you sin, you can’t be saved.” The issue is “if you sin there are real consequences…and some quite dire.” We always reap what we sow, and Jesus did not want her to keep reaping the rotten fruit of adultery. Why? Because He genuinely loved this woman and cared about her well being. What may have seemed pleasurable (and even a bit exciting) was ultimately crushing her.
It is in keeping with both the clear teaching of scripture and Jesus’ methods that He would have interacted similarly with a person He knew to be engaged in homosexuality, saying to this dear person, “My son / my daughter, do not continue in this.” And He would have cautioned others about being quick to condemn.
Jesus’ concern with sexual sin (or any sin for that matter) is the manifold harm it causes the individual. It is futile for a person to conclude that a behavior is moral, good and healthy simply because he’s had the desire for as long as can be remembered — even seeminly since birth. A man or woman can justify a host of tragic behaviors using this line of thinking.
God’s “rules” and boundaries for sexual behavior are not designed to restrict us, they’re designed to lovingly protect us, and it took me a long time to grasp this simple truth. The homosexual issue, like adultery, fornication, etc.) is not a “save you for heaven” issue,” it’s a “save you from harm” issue, complete with moral and relational traps and hazards, and myriad negative consequences. (Though not eternal, certain forms of judgment always befall us the here-and-now when we sin, and Jesus does not desire we experience such personal and relational destruction).
In keeping with what scripture reveals on this topic and undergirded by grace, I believe that Jesus, through the intricate workings of the Holy Spirit, gently encourages all believers to resist homosexuality, just as He encourages all to resist extramarital and premarital sex. Do all listen to this valuable wisdom? Sadly, no, and so hard, sometimes painful lessons are learned.
Paul teaches the very same thing (and is it any wonder, since the same Spirit who was in Christ also inspired the apostle’s words?). Paul adjures Christians in Corinth not to return to their old ways of sexual immorality — not because they will lose their salvation (he has already addressed them fondly as “saints” and described them as “sanctified” (1 Cor 1:2); rather such behaviors will stunt their spiritual growth, cause divisions, damage their precious witness, bring temporal judgements, and constrain their fellowship with God. It is really no surprise that Paul lists adultery and homosexuality as behaviors to flee from. Why? Being indwelt by the same Spirit that was in Christ, Paul genuinely loves his brothers and sisters, not wanting that any should endure the harm these activities bring. Like Christ, he desires they have life more abundantly. All of us at times are “the woman at the well” and “the woman caught in adultery,” and it is our precious Lord who comes to our rescue, puts His arm around our wounded shoulder, walks with us, and gently shows us the better way.
Thank you, Reid, for dealing with all of the key issues here so succinctly and graciously.
Jeremy – As much as I was mightily encouraged by your inspired blog on “election & predestination” and challenged to the core by your teaching on “freely-given grace”, I’m struggling to understand your unwillingness to be as clear with your readers about what the bible and, therefore, what Jesus, the Living Word, has to say about matters of sexual morality, temptation & sin. Suggesting that Jesus was deliberately quiet on this particular issue in this way may be clever but it doesn’t seem in keeping with your boldness to speak out more clearly on so many other issues affecting the lives & witness of Christians and those who are yet to be called.
Yes, we all need to continue the “logging” activities in our own lives (with the help & guidance of the Holy Spirit) but to imply that redeemed sinners shouldn’t participate in “saving others by snatching them from the fire..” (Jude 1.23) whilst any evidence of “optical wood” remains seems likely only to leave some of “Those who need a doctor” (Mark 2 v 17) without any hope of a more glorious & blessed way forward.
I wanted to read your blog. But was unable to because it want there. Is it possible it was removed?
At any rate I’d like to hear what you have to say
It was working fine …
The blog post is blank because Jesus didn’t talk about homosexuality. 😉
After I posted I understood the blank. Shows I wasn’t paying attention to your question!
Thank you for responding
You’re quite right when you entitle a column “What Jesus Taught About Homosexuality” and leave the column blank.
But of course you’d be equally right in leaving blank columns for “What Jesus Taught About Bigamy” and “What Jesus Taught About Incest.”