Can church exist without baptism and communion?
The quick answer is, “Sure. Why not?”
The long answer will take several posts.
Let’s begin with the negative: Neither baptism nor communion are necessary for the existence and life of the church.
Saying such a thing will probably alarm many Christians.
If you tell people that they don’t need church buildings and pastors to be the church, and most will shrug their shoulders and say, “Fine. However you want to do church…”
But when you say that baptism and communion are also not necessary, it is then that people start to feel threatened. These, after all, are marks of the true Christian! These are commanded by Jesus Himself! Baptism is the first step of discipleship! Communion (or the Eucharist) summarizes and encompasses everything important about Christian faith and practice! If you throw these out, you are no longer a Christian. You are playing with people’s eternal destinies!
It turns out that even among the most non-religious followers of Jesus, baptism and communion are non-negotiable. These two ceremonies are off the table, beyond discussion, unassailable, and untouchable. To question or challenge them is to question and challenge the bedrock of Christianity.
Ask Your Pastor
Want a fun experiment?
Go in next Sunday to your pastor and tell him that you have been doing some evangelism at work, and several people have gotten saved. Your pastor will most likely congratulate you, and encourage you to continue your efforts. Then tell your pastor that some of these new converts asked about getting baptized, and you told them that it was not necessary. The response will be somewhere between confusion and disappointment to shock and outrage. You will also get buried with a flurry of Bible verses which command believers to get baptized.
Or go into your pastor’s office next week and tell him that the church should stop offering communion every month (or however often you do it). Tell him that you think communion is a waste of time and money. Then step back and see what he says. Once again (and depending on your church’s view of communion), you will get a quick theology lesson about the commands to observe the Lord’s Supper and how such a practice is necessary for the life and vitality of the church. You may even be encouraged to reconsider your views on this subject, or reconsider your membership within the church.
Holy Baptism and Holy Communion
Maybe this is overstating the case, but it really does seem that in most churches, you can question and challenge almost anything, except the practices of baptism and communion. But as we will see in the chapter below, the way these ceremonies are conducted today borders more on the magical and arcane than on the way originally practiced or commanded by Jesus. And when we understand how and why Jesus and the early church practiced baptism and communion, we will see that such practices are not required or necessary today.
There are, however, helpful alternatives which seem to fit better with the original intent and purpose of baptism and communion, and which will be recommended and suggested in later posts.
What do you think? Can we get rid of baptism and communion as regularly practiced and still be the church? Can we still be an obedient church? Why or why not?
I usually very much agree with what you have to say on your blog; however, I find myself quite perplexed at this one. Everything I see in the Scriptures seems to pretty clearly command both baptism and partaking in the Lord’s Supper for believers. To not do so would not in any way negate one’s salvation; however, it would seem to be an act of disobedience. However, I have no idea where you’re going with this, so I suppose I’ll reserve judgement until I can see what it is you’re really getting at.
Hmm, I used “however” quite a lot there.
Chuck,
Hang in there with me! I will try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater (or baptism water) on this one! As we progress in the series, let me know what you think.
I was never baptized and I haven’t taken communion for a long time since I don’t go to a church. These rituals have lost their meaning and I don’t think Jesus would really care if you do them. If you do it is a great statement of faith (for some) but there are many ways to show your faith. I think he would be more worried about what you are doing to help others than if you were dunked in a pool or ate a piece of bread with some grape juice every week.
*Cue people who will judge me and point to an out of context Bible verse that doesn’t apply to us*
Very interesting! How long has it been, would you say?
Probably 2 years?
I would venture to say that these are not rituals at all. They breathe spiritual life into the human being. Baptism is not symbolic but literally the washing away of the “old man.” And the Ford’s Supper allows us in our time and physical dimension to participate in that meal as if we were really there because in spirit we are and for that moment the bread is really the Body of Christ and the wine is really the Blood of Christ. I can’t explain how it happens but it does. Go back to the beginning and we experience all these signs and wonders. Most Christians have lost what has happens from Acts until the present day. Many have lost the history of documented miracles all around us.
Aren’t you kinda poking your nose into the holy of holies here? Next you’ll be telling us the ark just has an old stick in it instead of a pile of gold.
Unfortunately, even though baptism and communion can be very, very meaningful to believers, in many cases they have lost much of that meaning.
Baptism is a mere formality in some churches. In others an initiation rite. In many, it is a generator of statistics for the denomination, a bragging point. (As in “We had 37 baptisms last year”) For some, the act of baptism itself is what “saves”. (Although I have heard a few people say that it was in the moment of baptism that they first believed. Of course I wondered why they agreed to be baptized in the first place if they did not believe.)
Communion can become another ritual that is somehow supposed to appease God and make up for the bad stuff we did during the week.
Yes, baptism and communion can resemble magic rites, almost as if we wear certain articles of clothing, use certain substances, say certain words and so on, something magic will happen.
However, they can also be so much more.
Sam,
We are thinking along the exact same lines here. These traditions can be so much more, and I will try to suggest a few ways to accomplish this in future posts.
I agree 100% and I am looking forward to reading your posts as you work through the Bible on it – assuming you plan too.
Doug,
Yes, that is what I will do. I am not sure I can deal with every Scripture passage on the topics, but will try to look at the key texts.
Before even getting into the baptism and communion thing, I would look at this line:
“If you tell people that they don’t need church buildings and pastors to be the church, and most will shrug their shoulders and say, “Fine. However you want to do church…” ”
I don’t know if most people would. Pastoral ministry is integral to the church. More than baptism and communion (which can’t really happen without pastoral ministry).
If by pastors you mean a priesthood of sorts, then that’s a bit of a different story. But the pastoral ministry is integral.
As to baptism and communion, just because these two are probably non-negotiable doesn’t make them wrong. It might not make them right either, but it certainly doesn’t make them wrong. I can’t see any scriptural reason to abandon them tbh.
Ryan,
I might have overstated my case about “most” people. It is just becoming more and more popular to meet in homes or coffee shops, and to not have any paid clergy. That is what I meant when I referred to buildings and pastors. But even churches that do not have buildings and paid pastors still practice baptism and the Lord’s supper.
Anyway, stick with me through this. I think that in “killing” baptism and the Lord’s Supper, we can look to Scripture for their resurrection in our own day and time.
Complety disagree with the author of this article. I am not a Scholar by any means nor a religious person but the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is precious to many despite its many errors. In the same maner I would think a bit longer before diminishing the rol of pastoral ministries not to mention the commandment of baptism and the most beautiful practice of remember Christ sacrifice through communion.
Teachers will instruct a stricter judgment and I regard you as one. Let’s see how will you change this warning to justify these doctrinal blunders so some can feel good about their lookwarm faith (as one of the fellow commentators above) while misguiding others.
*ding ding ding* And we have a winner!!!!
Congrats!!!!! thank you for proving the point!
by the way it’s LUKEWARM not lookwarm. Get your insults right!
I suppose if I would just dunk my head in some water I’d be A-okay.
Jeremy is spot on with this post and I look forward to seeing the next one.
😉
My wife loves all your comments! But I’m not jealous.
haha thanks!
;D
Gigi,
I understand the disagreement. Ten years ago, I would have said much the same thing.
But do me a favor and stick around through the series on baptism and the Lord’s Supper and let me know what you think as we progress through the discussion.
VERY INTERESTING QUESTIONS! Here is something else that I think we need to think about: “Should a church be incorperated?” IF a church IS, is it not then a STATE CHURCH WITH THE STATE AS ITS LORD & NOT JESUS?
There are order of realities.
And any man-made rule that says we must be dunked to become a member of the local church or for our salvation, or to eat wafers and grape juice in remembrance of Christ is a second order reality. It is debatable, and no one truly knows the answer. This is where people need to learn to agree to disagree in love.
The first order reality is Christ. Christ is not a debatable subject. He either IS or IS NOT. Therefore, the church is possible without all the second order realities, because Christ IS the Church.. and He exists.
Brian,
Good points. I didn’t quite think of it in this way, but you are right. Even if I end up being wrong, or people disagree, we can still all agree (I hope) on the primarily reality of Jesus Christ.
Jeremy,
I guess things have been a little uncontroversial for a while. This has all the earmarks of a hornets nest and you are poking it with a big stick. (I love you man).
Yes, THE Church does exist outside of buildings, and pastoral ministry happens, often carried out by people with no title at all. I have been baptized both in a building in a formal ceremony, and by being spit on while standing between a group of “Christians” and a gay person(to be fair, they were trying to spit on the gay person). I have held comunion in a building with juice and crackers, and under a bridge sharing coffee with a group of homeless men.
I think that all of these things are part of THE Church, but we have given so much unbiblical meaning to positions and titles and buildings and programs and rituals that we usually get the REAL church confused with a corporation that just happens to share a common name.
Your Friend and Brother,
FedEx,
President,
Men of Praise Motorcycle Ministry
It is a hornet’s nest for sure. I think that of all the chapters in the book which I have written so far, this one will prove to be the most controversial.
Hey Jeremy,
Interested in how this will continue. I know that the Salvation Army don’t use baptism and communion in there church services, but they do have other strange habits that I don’t get.
Also I think it is okay to do both and it does not matter much in what way you do it. I had communion with cake and coca cola. And baptism can take place everywhere, just like spirit baptism can take place everywhere. You sure have a lot of reply’s on this one, so you can see what stirs up peeps 😉
Waiting for the following blogs on this one.
Taco Verhoef
Nameless leader in Christ.
Taco,
I did not know this about the salvation army.
And cake and cocoa, huh? Wow. I was at a church a while back that did a baptism by running people through a water sprinkler out on the front lawn, and did communion with doughnuts and coffee.
The wide diversity on how people do baptism and the Lord’s supper show that there is room for discussion here.
I fail to see why a few cult-like ceremonies should separate someone from this deity.. especially one that is supposed to love everybody regardless. People should be free to practice this religion in a way that they are comfortable with, free of these activities that are mostly forced upon them by the Church anyway. Good article. It’s nice to see that there are actually some Christians out there that are able to think outside the box.
They really are few and far between on many issues. Some people seem to forget that human beings were given the gifts of logic and reasoning! Instead they rely on human created doctrine or what they hear from the pulpit.
“Instead they rely on human created doctrine or what they hear from the pulpit.” Kirk, that was refreshing. Where do you suppose humans get that doctrine? Is it for their own advancement…just thinking out loud.
Nowhere man,
Thanks. I do think there are some boundaries and guidelines for us, but sometimes, we focus on the wrong ones…
Jeremy,
I commend your courage for going down this road. You are absolutely right about the uselessness of baptism and communion in our age.
Protestants who get upset with you do not realize how much like Roman Catholics they are acting. That is, Protestants usually disdain Roman Catholic adherence to priests and sacraments. Consequently, those Protestants demonstrate themselves just as committed to the same things (it’s just pastors instead of priests and two sacraments instead of seven).
Life is a sacrament when truly and fully lived for the Lord. Does the Lord want us to go swimming or give clean water to those without it? Does the Lord want us to eat crackera and drink grape juice or give food and drink to the poor?
Baptism and communion are what Isaiah would condemned as “tradition learned by rote” (Is 29:13).
Stay courageous for the Lord, Jeremy. He is worthy!
Great point there in comparison, and with Isaiah 29:13. The prophets have a lot to say to us in these matters… which is partly why most churches ignore the prophets.
I view baptism and communion as an individual choice. If a person never partakes of the Lord’s Supper or is never baptized, but still believes in and professes faith in Jesus Christ, well I believe that person is still saved. But, as several folks have already pointed out, it is an act of obedience, not to mention a remembrance of what our Lord did on the cross for us. So, the bigger question remains… why would anyone want to exclude these two ordinances from our lives in the first place?
Well put, Greg. Still, I am interested in seeing where Jeremy is going with this.
It is a choice.
As the series progresses, you will see that I am all for people getting baptized and taking communion, if they understand the meaning and significance of what they are doing. If not, I still think there are things they can do today which symbolize the same significance.
“taking communion”? Was that a slip-up? I thought it would be “the Lord’s Supper” from that point on?
It sure is hard to not slip into our first learned traditions, eh?
I’m sure you’ll point out that the new-born assembly of saints went from house to house breaking bread together (fellowship meals for remembering our Lord)… which we have morphed into a formal rite. Not a bad thing necessarily, but don’t we love to build up our religiosity?
*ding, ding, ding!* LOL
Yep. Slip-up! Nice catch. Tradition is hard to break.
I will try to mention that reference.
Happy Valentines Day to you, Wendy and the girls! – Sam
You too Sam! []
I appreciate your creativity man. Not sure what made you think about this topic though. “Sacred cows” make great hamburger but I’m not convinced that “sacraments” are/should be on the chopping block.
If you were going for shock value, you succeeded. The problem with shock value is that next time, you’re going to have to bigger next time.
“What you win them with is what you win them to.”
God bless man.
Josh,
No, I wasn’t trying for shock value. Just trying to get people to think and ask the hard questions. If I succeed in that, I will have “won.”
Josh Burnett,
The goal is to win them to Christ, not to ourselves. Failure to appreciate this truth is the common characteristic of practically any church you would choose to visit this Sunday – regardless of where it might be mapped on a theological spectrum.
Mike Gantt,
To the Biblical image of Christ or to our own personal view of who Christ is?
Josh Burnett,
That is the only thing that has made any sense.
Robbyn,
Personal views of Christ can vary. The biblical portrayal of Christ, however, is true and lasting. It never changes. It is written.
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, (Romans 14:17 NIV)
My church does not practice the holy communion “naturally”. Since Jesus said what you eat has no effect on the soul it is to be understood that when he said eat this bread it is my flesh he was referring to the word of God bc he is the word of God become flesh. So each time we read the word, share the word, listen to a preaching we are eating his flesh, the bread. Each time we are filled with the Holy Ghost we are drinking the spiritual wine. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, (Ephesians 5:18 NIV)
Interesting. That sounds fine to me! Though I would not require others to follow this practice (or the more traditional practice either), as that starts to lean toward legalism, which is exact opposite purpose of the Lord’s Supper and Communion (however it is done).
people who read half your blog and move on it would be lost..dont you think thats scary?
Scary? Isn’t learning all part of the adventure of life and following Jesus? I hope that each person is following Jesus, and that I can just be one small part in their path of going where He leads. If He leads them by my blog for a post or two, great!
If they get a little confused, hopefully my post made them think a little bit, and Jesus will lead them straight.
My church, landmark church of God, don’t practice communion or baptisms, which i find awfully strange for a christian church. I’m due to be baptized this sunday and feel that baptism is necessary for the cleansing of one’s sins and ready them for their place in heaven. Communion should not taken lightly or discarded, it is not an old ritual that has played itself out in mordern times; It is a rememerance of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. To abolish communion is to stop remembering the price he paid for our sins. That’s like saying yeah, yeah, so you died for us, big deal, so what, that was thousands years ago, its 2014, get over it. What a shame our mordern christians have become today. 🙁
I am glad you are undergoing baptism and that you take communion. I just get worried when people do these things mindlessly. They are to remind us of truths, but if we simply do them because it’s tradition, then they remind us of nothing and lost their significance.
By the way, baptism in water does not wash away sins, but simply symbolizes that your sins have already been forgiven. The word “baptism” means “immersion into, identification” so that we we get water baptized, it symbolizes our immersion into Christ, our identification with Him. I know you know this, but just wanted to emphasize it here.
Jesus said go and make disciples baptising them in the name of the father and of the son and of
The Holy Spirit, he also said on the night before he died Do this in remembrance of me (The partaking of the bread and wine). Both are symbolic and carry great meaning for those who follow Christ. Jesus commanded both, so to me there is just no argument or room for controversy.
We are all individuals in the body of Christ and the depth of our faith is not equal nor ever will be.
Communion and baptism will always mean much more to some than to others but that certainly
does not mean that these commandments put into place by Jesus himself should be ignored.
It is not mans place to decide, it is mans place to obey what Jesus commanded. There will always be the genuine and the not so genuine Christian, only the genuine will receive the spiritual blessings that baptism and communion bring.
Mary,
The debate comes in when we try to decide what the verses mean which you quote. Each verse has a dozen or so understandings and applications within traditional Christianity. So although it is not man’s place to decide, we do have to study the Scriptures to do our best to decide what they actually instruct us to believe and do. I have done this, and come to different understanding of baptism and the Lord’s Supper than you.
Exactly right – Jesus Christ said, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” What does that say to people who don’t?
I personally find the communion unacceptable due to the fact that something is being shared by 100s of people.. east orthodox for example.. spoon and going through 100s of mouths. Baptizing however is a whole different thing. After I received mine I became a new person, completely changed me. I’m now happy, stable, feeling positive all the time. I feel im in control of myself finally in my life. I go to the church during week days but never in the end of the week cause I don’t like this communion – I’m not going to put something in my mouth that’s being shared by 100s of people… My lifestyle is like a monk though, spend most of my free time reading the scriptures and prayers. Even if the stuff wasnt shared by 100s of people I still wouldnt see any point in doing that. I view it just as a symbol and I dont think Jesus himself would care about it more or less.
Paul wrote all the main truth for the Church which is Christ’s Body and he said he was not sent to baptise and was glad he only baptised two. So much for him keeping the great commission given to the 12 kingdom apostles of Israel. Ephesians 4:5 says there is only ‘ONE BAPTISM’ for the Church today. As the only baptism that all believers automatically partake of at salvation is 1Corinthians 12:13 then it leaves water high and dry. Notice also that the Great Commission commands the 12 to go and baptise it does not command believers to be baptised. It also says that the 12 were to teach all that Jesus taught them to do. eg Keep the Law of Moses ,be circumcised, only preach to Jews, you only get God’s forgiveness if you forgive others etc. So why don’t you keep all that the Lord commanded them to keep? Maybe there was a big change in God’s dealings since then apart from the cross.
The church I grew up in was Protestant and practiced baptism for adult converts, a special spiritual and public sign of conversion and renewal. Communion was done once a month at church and was done so worshipfully and thoughtfully: we were taught it is simply symbolic, but it was beautiful to remember what Christ did for us. My spirit is so DRY now… in today’s church nothing feels sacred or meaningful. Some don’t even respect His presence (chewing and popping gum during the sermon, talking during worship, drinking coffee in church). I am looking for a church where His presence is honored, and we love and respect Him and each other, and we live our faith daily in the community as well.
I was taught that Sacraments (let’s just consider Baptism and Communion) are an outward sign of an inward grace. That’s how I eventually learned to understand and acknowledge what they are really all about, so I’ll just leave it there.
G’day my brothers and sisters in Christ,
My view on baptism is that when Jesus said Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, means this. You teach the Gospel by preaching it. You are explaining to people who the unknown God is by preaching the Gospel. The name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ. By believing on his name you are baptized into his body by his spirit. No water required. I believe the Jewish Christians still practiced water baptism to try to Judaize Gentiles. I believe water baptism was replaced by Faith in Jesus and a baptism of FIRE (His Spirit)! 🙂 In other words. Jesus does the baptizing, and not us. We just preach the Gospel.
On the Lords Supper. I believe Jesus was explaining to his disciples that he was the Passover Lamb, and that they were to remember him during the Passover feast until they saw him again. 1 Cor 11 was simply pointing out that the Corinthians were behaving selfishly and not sharing meals with the poor and getting drunk. That’s not the example Jesus left us with. He shared his last meal with us, he shed his blood for us, he died for us. So if we are too follow him we are to do likewise and share our meals with our brothers and sisters in love and to remember the poor. By doing this we are following Christs command to love one another and to love him.
Took me a while to understand this, but I didn’t learn it from any man. Just through the revelations of Jesus Christ. Live your life unto the Lord in everything you do. Everyday is the Lords Day. Every breath and gift is a blessing from him. Use it to spread the Gospel! Remember the poor and the weak! The message is so simply but we get caught up on tradition and how we should worship, when your whole life is worship. Sing praises unto him, read your bibles, share your meals and gifts! SPREAD THE GOSPEL! 😀
I don’t go to any particular church denomination anymore, just study the bible with family and friends. It seems to be more effective in reaching the community because I am not segregating myself to an organization. But instead being led by the Spirit to reach out to unbelievers. Boast in Christ!
With the love of Christ,
Eugene
For those people who believe that when a clergy person prays over (blesses, consecrates) the elements (emblems) for communion as a sacrament, that such becomes the actual body (bread) and blood (fruit of the vine) of Jesus Christ (which certain “denominations” do believe), but they allow only ordained clergy-men to thus officiate, and deny women ministers from presiding at their Eucharist . . . have they considered that the actually real
body and blood of Jesus Christ developed and dwelt within the Blessed Virgin Mary for nine months? This was brought to my attention (which I already knew, but had not previously expressed) by one of our Roman Catholic friends who shared his opinion on why appropriate women should be admitted to full ministry. Perhaps that may not be what some would call a theological reason for women in ordained ministry, but it surely is a good biological explanation and worthwhile consideration.
Actually, people really don’t get the meanings of the several uses of the transliterated word– baptism/ baptize. And, Baptism from John the Baptizer, to the destruction of Jerusalem/ Israel was a Judaic sign and was not practiced by Jesus Himself. John indeed baptized with water, but He that came after him baptizes with the Holy Ghost. When Jesus gave the command to go into all the world preaching the gospel baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit– the Father sending the Son to save His people from their sins by baptizing them in the Holy Spirit thereby giving them new life…short version of course, as I assume everyone knows Jesus sacrificed Himself to take away sin(s).
As for unleavened bread with it’s bumps, and stripes and holes–they are a picture of Christ’s sufferings as described in Isaiah 53, and is also a Jewish practice. If you read Acts, where Paul meets with the disciples in Jerusalem, James and the Jehudites tell Paul what he should be sure the Nations know concerning the Way. No blood consuming, abstain from idols,…anyway, no mention of the Lord’s Supper. Now I’m not against either— if you need a shower or bath in front of a bunch of people…don’t wear revealing clothes. The whole mode thing is another topic, and whether a believer only or his whole house be washed is yet another thing.
As for the Supper— breaking bread was a way of saying they shared a meal… and if believer’s want some wine or grape juice (another divide in that topic) and BREAD—AT LEAST make sure it’s real UNLEAVENED bread! Wafers and tearing off or dicing up yeast filled bread annoys the heaven out of me— but, if it’s the real McCoy elements, I may join in…but not promising anything.
could you send me the link to the whole series please? or at least, the following chapter?