Below is the fourth letter in the series, “Letters To Dad.” They are written by Sam Riviera, and are based on the true stories of people he actually knows in real life.
Dad,
You probably thought you’d never hear from me again. Well, it’s me. I’m alive.
But now I’m somewhere where you can never find me or hurt me.
There’s a public library near here where I can get on the internet. I check Facebook. Sometimes I see your posts. I read that you found out I’m gay. Did you really say “He’s better off dead if he’s gay”? What is that supposed to mean? Is that some kind of threat? To your own flesh and blood? You want me dead? Seriously?
I didn’t have a choice to be born. I didn’t get to choose who my dad is. I also didn’t get to choose that I’m gay. Regardless of what you think, I didn’t choose any of those things.
I wasn’t kidnapped. I had been planning my escape for a long time. I had to get away from you. Why? You scare me. Actually, you terrify me. I figured sooner or later you were going to find out I’m gay. I had to get as far away from you as possible before that happened.
Now that I see what you wrote on Facebook, I’m glad I ran.
I didn’t want you trying to beat demons out of me. That’s what you said. “If I ever find out any kid of mine is gay, I’ll beat those demons out of them if it kills them.” You said that.
Seriously? You think I have demons in me? Why are you such an angry person? You need help.
Where did you learn this stuff, anyway? From those homophobic guys you work with? You know that some of them are gay, don’t you? Seriously, dad. Some of them are gay. Don’t you know that? You have gay neighbors and gay relatives and gay coworkers. Which of them are you going to beat the demons out of? That could get you some serious jail time.
You said the Bible says gay people are abominations and should be stoned. Nice. Is that supposed to be Christian love? Where did you learn that? That is sick. And frightening.
Anyway, not that you care, but I’m surviving. For now. I’ve hooked up with some other kids in similar situations. About half my group is gay. Some got thrown out by their parents when they came out. The rest of us took off before our parents found out so we wouldn’t get the crap beat out of us.
We live outdoors most of the time. We steal to survive. We panhandle. Some of us sell drugs. Some of us sell sex. Don’t be surprised. Stealing, begging, addiction, dealing drugs, selling sex, and being homeless is our lifestyle … chosen for us by our parents … by dads like you.
Oh, and add dead to that list. Our lifestyle makes for a short lifespan. Suicide, overdosing, disease, getting stabbed, shot or beaten to death, or dying from exposure on cold nights is our lifestyle.
I’m not really mad at you. I’m seriously afraid of you. Thinking about you hurts. You are my dad for God’s sake. How can you be like that? How could you sentence me to a life like this? You’re the one who made that choice. You chose. I didn’t. You cut me off. You threatened my life. You’re responsible for me being on this earth. You brought me here. Now you want me dead?
One of my group read online that kids like us have a lifespan of four or five years at most. Maybe I’ll beat those odds. Maybe not.
Seriously, Shaun
No, they are not better off dead. Jesus Christ died for the sinners, Gay people do not know what they are doing, is wrong. Give them love, teach them things they should learn.
being LGBT is not a sin, they are saved if they are believers
Andrea: You need to read the Bible. There are several scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments which condemn homosexuality. A person cannot become a REAL Believer in Christ and continue in the sin of homosexuality. Read 1 Corinthians 6:9 “Do you know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. “Again, you need to read the Bible
If You say so. It would seem that this page has exalted itself above God. To turn from your sin is what God says . And God will define what sin is, not a man made doctrine of demons. – (Acts 3:19/ 2 Chronicles 7:14/ Acts 2:38 / Isaiah 1:18/ James 4:4 – etc. etc. etc. – Brother Jeremy – You are the leader here?. – And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. – (2 Corinthians 11:14)
Proof texting as always…bad idea look at context , original language before making up your mind
I was saved from my gay life as it was what a sin according to the Bible, and whether I was because I didnt know anything different (born that way), or from upbringing doesnt matter. What matters is even if I could not help my feelings it came down to making a deliberate choice to follow my fleshful desires or commit under the Lordship of Jesus Christ. I chose Jesus along with a promise to be abstinent from my desires and trust in God for the changes into becoming the man He desired me to be. Once saved it is no longer about us, by me obeying my desires it was putting them in front of God. He doesnt want us to be lukewarm, its all or nothing. It wasnt until I committed to the promise I made to be 100% obedient that I started to see gradual changes taking place and now 13yrs later I no longer desire men the way that I used to. To keep me from becoming prideful I believe it is still a desire remaining to keep me reminded of whom I need to be obedient. The fact is Ive changed beyond anything I could ever have accomplished in my own strengths, and have God and Christ to thank for all of this. I died with Christ and died to the power of sin’s rule over my life (Romans 6:1-6). I have been given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). I have been bought with a price; I am not my own; I belong to God (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). Since I have died, I no longer live for myself, but for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:14-15).
Bruce, this is your path and I am glad you have found peace on it.
But for others reading this, going the way that you did may not help them. Everyone’s path is different. I know gay Christians who radiate the love of Jesus from every pore. This to me is God’s seal of approval, in the same way He has approved you.
Everyone is different but God loves them unconditionally – without conditions. He also approves of people 100% – again without conditions. And He also accepts everyone unconditionally. Without that unconditional Love, none of us would have peace with Him.
Read your Bible. The act is a sin. Sex is only for married men and women as Jesus confirmed himself.
Those who commit homosexual acts or fornication must repent – as all of us must do – with our own sins.
There is no individual path. The path is narrow …like it or not. This is a major problem with Americanity- just say the magic “Jesus prayer” and you are “in” the club. No repentance no denial of self.
What about being a “new creation” where the old sinful life has passed and all things have become new?
You or I Cannot be saved without the change.
Bruce, that is fantastic! Praise God! Thanks for sharing.
Dear Bruce; Thank you for your post here. As has been intimated in these posts, human sexuality is incredibly complex. Regardless of the brand of our sexuality, humans share similar biological drives. What can be said of heterosexual can be said of every sexual drive regardless where that drive is pointed – same sex, other sex, children, animals, whatever. You believe, as I do, there is such a thing as inordinate sexual direction – that ‘where’ you are inclined to express your sexuality can be misplaced. Keep in mind, there are organizations who promote pedophilia as another type of normal. ‘It is simply one of the many hangups of society’. These will also tell you, ‘the best way to deal with temptation is to give into it; call it, ‘normal for you’.
You have chosen to take God at His Word. Though I identify as a heterosexual, we too must take God at His Word; there are directions in scripture to curb an inordinate heterosexual desire. Like you, I have followed these ‘directions’ and physically remained faithful to my wife of 46 years. This however, does not tell the whole story of what was raging in my mind during my younger married years.
I should add, all these words which describe ‘sexual orientation’: homo, trans, ped, hetero, etc, are not actual science. These are terms made up as an attempt to categorize and understand human sexual desire. Like the myriad of phobias, there are probably a thousand things which trigger human sexual responses. We are not a category, we are more complex than that.
As I said, regardless of our ‘orientation’, sexual drive is so complex we cannot always know why we are ‘turned on’ to the object of our desire. But what you and I have found is, God can and does make us overcomers because of His grace working in us. In addition, what we have found, is we cannot even flirt with the thing which is likely to consume us if we get to close. Don’t let anyone talk you out of your victories, and stay close to Jesus.
Finally, because human sexuality is so complex, we cannot tell those whom Christ loves – ‘just change’. Unconditional love is the only conduit of God’s Word; and it is He that must work in our lives for actual change.
Thank you Peter, it is refreshing to hear someone tell it like it is: what goes on in the mind of younger married men isn’t that unusual after all! Something bothered me about a pastor posting this letter, with no text to explain why. I feel for the kid of course but I also feel for the father. I think what bothered me is the part where he says some of his father’s friends are gay, I think he says. I don’t know for sure, but this sounds similar to musings by young drug takers that just about everyone is on drugs. I think this needs some context; we need to love our fellow man, but we also need to balance this with keeping our distance from sin. I wasn’t gay, but I smoked dope. I had younger sisters, and was not permitted to contact them or live at home while I was sinning. Which, by the way, was a couple of decades. I have lost fellow using friends, I was jailed several times, I was also sexually assaulted, not in prison but when I was waiting for a sentence…a nice homosexual man gave me some free drugs to ease my fear of the next morning’s court case, and I passed out, only to awaken to one of the more unpleasant experiences I’ve had. Not so nice after all…anyway. I wanted to tell you that I do not feel any ill feeling towards my family; I chose to live away from God, and my kin turned out alright – I’m still alive too, although I do have a blood born virus. The amount of anger I developed as a teen was too much for my family to handle, and the root of it is not what you would think, suffice to say society has some major hurdles that I personally was introduced to at school. Maybe this is why I am so against this push by the gay activists to make life even more confusing for kids: Lets be really clear: nearly every country on Earth has outlawed homosexuality in its not too distant past, and most of them won’t allow such silly games as SSM. The amount of guys I know who are naturally effeminate is quite high; the ones who grew up in church, to a man, have gone on to lead perfectly normal lives. Nowadays you get mothers actually encouraging their kids to cross dress, then sueing schools for having girls’ and boys’ toilets. Come on people – this “gay” agenda? It really is beyond ridiculous.
Harry, follow the link at the beginning, in red, to the three previous letters. This is letter four in a series that will include more. The series is about homeless and runaway teens, why they are on the street, how they survive, what happens to them there and so on. It has nothing to do with gay marriage, the gay agenda or anything of the sort. Some homeless and runaway kids are LGBTQ, many are not. Read the previous three letters and the letters that will follow for context. What should be our response, those of us who follow Jesus, to the plight of the million plus homeless and runaway kids in our country?
I only just subscribed Sam thanks for the information. If you read my letter, you might see some parallels. I’ve known many rentboys back in my youth, which I spent stealing to “survive” aka live the life I wanted, in all of its heathen glory. I do feel for these kids, but I also do not believe the attitudes to sex of the boys’ families are the reason that they are there. Its horrible sleeping out in the cold, but nothing compared to the ache one feels when separated from our creator. I did end discussing the particulars of homosexual sin because I see this as being linked with the drugs, crime and homelessness. People do have a sometimes irrational fear of homosexual sin compared with other sins, but it is all sin, and if you cannot come as blameless as possible before the Almighty God, you might miss out on hearing His voice. God’s morality does not change, and as a church and a people we often have a lot of bigotry toward the increasing numbers of homosexuals in our midst – however! If we have confidence in the Lord, we can reach out to these people s- be in the world and not of it. Thank you again for sharing your letters!
Leviticus 18:22, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Kelley, proof texting is always a bad idea. Just curious why you referenced those verses…
After all, according to Lev 11:11, eating lobster and calamari is also an abomination. Have you ever eaten Lobster … or calamari?
And as for 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, thieves, revilers, and drunkards are all in the same boat. Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever spoken abusively to somebody? Ever gotten drunk?
Jeremy you comments about 1 Cor.6:9,10 should have included vs 11 and such were some of you but you are washed, you are sanctified, you are justified in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Also, Romans 6:12 clearly says let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin; but yield yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead..for sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the law but under grace. Keep reading Romans..Titus 2:11,12 says that the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. Teaching us denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly , righteously and godly in this present age.
The Old Testament, the letter written upon stone is abolished. 2 Corinthians 3:12.13 Hebrews 8:9 which was imposed upon them till the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:10
Shall we continue in sin that grace may about? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? Romans 6:1,2
You become the servant to whom ever you yield to whether sin resulting in death or obedience resulting in righteousness. Thanks be to God that you have obeyed from the heart that form of teaching being made free from sin ye become servants of righteousness. Romans 6:17-19
The rebellion of anyone who runs from God no matter what kind of sin it is the scriptures says we will always reap what we sow. Galatians 6:7,8 We have choices to make. Either we are yielding to Christ or our flesh. Corruption is the fruit of the flesh and blessings the fruit of obedience. God leaves the choice up to us.
Tim, you are practicing shotgun hermeneutics here. Google it, and you will see what I mean…
The Word stands on its own authority Jeremy. We all understand words. When we read shall we that grace may abound? What do you not understand?
Thank you for bringing up Romans 6:1. It shows that I am on the right track. https://redeeminggod.com/romans-6-1-grace/
So you guys who immediately write on here ‘Gay is wrong’, or similar – haven’t you missed the point?
The point is that people, with attitudes like you appear to have, are driving their own children to destitution and suicide.
How can you miss this message?
How can you miss the tears of Jesus as these homeless – those whom Jesus told us to look after – die unnoticed?
You are missing the Gospel my friends.
May God have mercy on you.
Thanks, Tony. Yeah, this story is not intended to be the springboard for a discussion of whether or not being LGBTQ is or is not sin. This series of “Letters To Dad” is intended to tell the stories of a handful of homeless/runaway teens, including why they are on the street, what life is like there, how they are surviving, and what is happening and will happen to many of them.
Homeless and runaway teens are MUCH more likely to become addicts, die of suicide, be raped (both male and female), turn to selling their bodies to survive and (read the upcoming “Letters To Dad” to find out more).
We find that so many people including church people are ignorant of most of this. Can we imagine God looking at what is happening and weeping? Does that make us want to cover our eyes and our ears? Why do we not want to see or hear? Is that what we think following Jesus is all about?
Children that are confused about themselves need guidance to point them to Christ. I do have a question though. How do we respond to anyone that refuses to listen to the clear teaching of Christ concerning sin? What about theft? What about lieing? What about disobedience to parental oversight? What about fornication? These are all sin. How does any parent guide their family when the children will not listen and go there own way? We must see that sin is destructive and of the devil. We must understand that the death of Christ is not just to forgive us but is to transform us!
Good points, Tim, thanks 🙂 Personally, I think that teenagers are always confused about themselves; that’s part of the growing-up process.
It is our duty as parents to guide our children, yes. But there are two points I’d like to make here: firstly, we should never, ever reject our children for what we term ‘disobedience’ – Discipline, yes, but rejection, no; secondly, what we deem to be right and wrong, particularly when dictated to by an outside agency like a church, or even our own interpretation of scripture, may not be what is right for them. They need to learn to hear God for themselves. part of parenting teenagers is letting them go in order to let them learn. Trust in God to look after them. It’s a fine balance, isn’t it? You want to coddle them and protect them from harm, but at the same time you want to give them the freedom to learn. There is no right or wrong answer to this, it is entirely dependent on the strategy you decide to employ within your own family. But it is far, far more dangerous to use ostracism, or the threat of ostracism, to control your children. Because if they *do* leave home, they will be in far, far more danger, as this article says.
In reply to your question where you asked, “How do we respond to anyone that refuses to listen to the clear teaching of Christ concerning sin?”, (I’m taking the word ‘anyone’ as meaning someone outside your family), well if it’s illegal that’s between them and the law enforcement agencies 😉 – but if it’s someone in your church whom you are ‘rebuking’ or correcting, then in that case, their reaction to the rebuke is between them and God. You place your ‘rebuke’, then you leave the response to them. I’ve written on this subject before here: http://tinyurl.com/nzcsrzr
Hope this makes sense!
Redeeming God Everything mentioned in 1 Corinthians 6:9-20 are sinful – including homosexuality. By the grace of God, through his Son, Jesus Christ, our sins are forgiven. We are all sinners – no one is pure; we are not to shun, abuse or hurt other sinners but to love them as Christ loves us. However, that doesn’t mean that these things are not sinful and that we sinners shouldn’t try to overcome our sinfulness.
Jane Rietze I do not disagree. I just think it strange that some Christians like to use 1 Corinthians 6 to condemn homosexuals to hell, while ignoring that the list of sins contains things that most of us Christians are guilty of on a regular basis.
The tragedy of the modern translations of the Bible! Homosexuality is NOT A SIN! Sorry! Had to shout that because some people can’t hear. Do some research on the original languages (Greek and Hebrew) and then some research on the socio-cultural context of the day and what the writer/s were saying to their generation. It’s got nothing to do with homosexuality.
It always amazes me how self-righteous those heterosexual folk can be on this. I sometimes wish I could wave a wand and give them a taste of being gay so they really know from the inside what that is like. They would change their tune so smartly.
Here is this young man who has run in fear of his father and then we have the “Christians” come out in support of the father and condemnation of the young man who is in fear of his life. Come on, folk! Is this the best you can do as a “Christian”? Your attitude is somewhat putrid and fouling up the air.
Jem,
Thank you for saying that. Religious Christians can be some of the most self-righteous people on earth. I sometimes delete the foulest, most hate-filled comments on this site from people who quote verses left and right to justify their hate. It is very sad.
Jeremy if you agree that homosexuality is not sin then you are very deceived. All the verses in the world in your mind are hateful that condemn sin. My question then is Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. (Parts of comment deleted)
Tim, This post is about a homeless and runaway child, and is part of a series about homeless and runaway kids. There are many reasons teens are homeless and/or run away. Being gay is only one of them. This post is not about whether or not being gay is or is not sin. Please try to stick to the issue of homeless teens. If you wish to debate the issue of the Bible and homosexuality, your blog would be the place to do that. We have over a million homeless kids in our country. Let’s discuss why they’re homeless and what we, as followers of Jesus are doing to help them out and help them get a roof over their heads. Please stick to the topic of the post.
Please refer to the comment policy. All comments involving name calling and demeaning behavior will be deleted in the future. This is a Christian blog. If you disagree, do so in a Christlike manner. For your information the Moderator is not Jeremy.
Tim,
You have absolutely no clue what I believe or why I believe it. If you really want to accuse me of something, first spend a bit of time learning what I believe. The search area at the bottom of this website is a good place to start, or you can browse through the archives: https://redeeminggod.com/archives/
Bruce, I see you still have to subdue those natural feelings of yours for the same sex after 13 years. Doesn’t that tell you something?
We can live all our lives in denial of who or what we were made to be but it doesn’t change the fact of that. I know just what you face as I’ve been there too, lived in denial, chosen to be heterosexual. But it was all a lie. I eventually got tired of living the lie.
God calls you to celibacy if you really want to obey him.
Who says? That’s your interpretation! Or what you’ve been church-washed to believe. If you read about Paul’s comments on celibacy it is a rare “calling” and not something one is forced into because the church decides this is how you should conduct yourself. Get a life, Leo! BTW are you celibate?
Oh, dear. I’d have thought that readers of this blog would somehow understand Grace better than some respondents have displayed here.
Surely parents should love their children above Rules? And I don’t mean ‘tough love’, either. I mean loving them in spite of what you perceive as their faults.
If a child has to leave your home because they perceive you as a harsh, unbending ogre, it’s you that’s wrong, not the child.
I saw this story on another blog – Freedhearts (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/freedhearts/)
One of the writers on that site said that “To Reject One’s Child is the Worst Transgression”
Y’know, it amazes me that people even have to be told this. Most normal, sane people would *always* put their children before even their own lives, never mind social pressure groups like churches.
One day, you will move church because you move to a new city. But your children will always be your children. This is such a no-brainer that it astounds me that anyone could think otherwise.)
To put what you perceive to be God’s commands (ie the ‘Law’) above the number-one job He gave you when He gave you your children (ie looking after them) is so clearly wrong, wrong, wrong! People say ‘The Bible is clear’? Let me tell you, this is even clearer!!
You understand why I’m taking the time away from the unending needs of what one person told me is “the garbage of humanity” (the homeless, and this includes homes youth) to write these kids’ stories. If just one parent decides not to throw away their kid and turn them out on the streets because of this series of stories, it will be worth it. How many of the people I have counseled over the years who were planning to throw out their kid because the kid was (gay, pregnant, having sex, using drugs, “turning their back on God”, etc.) do you think have told me that keeping their child under their roof was a mistake? – None.
Maybe one of these stories (there will be more) will speak to those parents trying to decide what to do. They’re upset by what their kid is thinking or doing. Shouldn’t they throw out the kid? Maybe all will go well (as in the kid can live with his friend from school). Probably not, not if the kid ends up on the street. Most of these parents are clueless what will happen to their kid on the streets. If someone really doesn’t know, we can exchange e-mails or even talk on the phone before your kid leaves. Don’t wait until the day after your kid leaves. By then, they’ve probably already been approached by (people you don’t want to know about) for (things you don’t want to know about).
Thanks for your responses, Sam. And for the series you are doing – I’m sure it will make a difference.
The really warped thing here is that so many of these parents care more about the opinions of others than they do about doing the right thing by their children. If they didn’t care about others’ opinions, there would not be a need to counsel, no need for this series, because the parents would do what God ordained for them as parents: loving their children unconditionally, just as He sets the example in loving us unconditionally.
How far we have fallen! And while ‘non-Church’ people will also have ‘problems’ with their ‘wayward’ teens, I wonder if the ‘expulsion rate’ is higher in Church families? IT would not surprise me.
And I grieve, as a Christian of 35 years’ standing, that my Jesus is misrepresented so badly by those who claim to love Him.
Thanks again Tony. We believe it is possible to separate our opinions of the issues our kids are facing from our love for our kids. We’re not raising perfect puppies that will become show dogs. We’re rearing children who may be much different from us. They may reject our beliefs and values, but is that reason enough to throw them to the wolves? We think not. Keep them close and we will probably have a permanent relationship with them, and will continue to have some influence in their lives. Throw them out and those things are a lot less likely to happen. As followers of Jesus we think the first option is almost always the best option.
Maybe some parents care more about the eternal life of their child.
Eternal life begins here! And it begins with people loving others – gay kids included – as Jesus loves them. Being Jesus to the world is what we are here for. Else we might as well just go on to Heaven right now!
Interesting article!! Here are some random thoughts on gays and the Christians;
• Homosexuality is not acceptable in many cultures. The hate Christians have for gays come from cultural and societal views, not godly view. That’s why many Christians do not tolerate gay people but find prostitution more acceptable.
• Many people just judge and offer no help. Actually they have never had a good conversation with a homosexual person but they claim to understand them and throw verses around. If you are a Christian who want to make an impact I challenge you to have find a gays person and have a good conversation without the fighting. This will change you.
• Christians who really understand homosexuals are either former homosexual or have a relative who is homosexual or are actively engaged in assisting homosexuals. The rest of us like to throw verses and hope to make change. If you really want to catch an animal go into the bush. You will find that some of your perceived ideas don’t catch anything.
• The sad thing is most homosexuals are hurting and bitter. They are bitter because they find themselves in the side not acceptable by the society. They are sad because they have mixed feelings inside them. And they are bitter because they are pressured and threatened by the community to change. They have been hurt and rejected many times. They need healing.
• There are two groups of gay people; gay unbelievers and gay believers. Now gay unbelievers will always speak with a voice that defend other gays whether believers or not. They will express their opinion in Christian forums and non-Christian forums in a very loud voice. Some gay unbelievers also want to change but do not know how.
• Gay believers have accepted Christ and they can be classified into those who are seeking and working to change, and those who have given up change accepted the status quo. Of those seek change many are still battling with former desires. Remember receiving Christ does stop your desires. It’s actually the beginning of a long battle with the inner self. At the end someone has to win the war. If gay desires win, some will decide to leave church and abandon the faith altogether. Some will just hang on in church saying, ‘God knows me. Perhaps He made me this way for a reason.’ This is also a sad and hurting situation.
• You do not wake up and say I choose to be gay. There are many social and spiritual elements behind. At the end of the day, it was not a choice. Circumstances forced you into, circumstances that most heterosexual have no ideas about. I challenge you to listen, to listen to their stories. You will find out that they are not enemies. It’s just a soul that needs help.
• It’s true in the Old Testament God destroyed Sodom and Gomorra because of homosexuality. As for you, ‘You shall not destroy a city because it is gay. Instead you shall take effort to help them out of it.’ You are not God.
• What do heterosexual Christians really want? Most just want homosexuals to convert to heterosexuals, period! It has nothing to do with eternal life or God’s kingdom. Talk is cheap. I challenge you to go out there and meet gay people. I challenge you to listen a bit long. This is how you will find an opportunity to make eternal influence.
I hope these thoughts helps.
Brilliant. In your sixth paragraph, though, you said, “Remember receiving Christ does stop your desires” – I take it you meant ….does *not* stop your desires?
But still brilliant. Well said!
To homosexual people reading this who are hurting: please be assured that not all Christians condemn you, hate you or want to change you. There are some of us out here who feel the Father’s heart hurting for what people do to you, whether you are a believer or not. And we are ashamed of what has been done to you in the name of the God Who loves you unconditionally – that means, without conditions. You don’t have to change for Him to love you!
And don’t take any notice of the backlash I will get for this post, claiming that I am misrepresenting God. Look to those who display Grace and Love in their lives, not to those who do not. The Graceful people are those from whom you will find acceptance.
Yes tonycutty, sixth paragraph was meant to say, “Remember receiving Christ does NOT stop your desires.”
Yes I have, I am a sinner in need of God’s grace. However, the bible also teaches grace is not a license to sin. I do not believe based on the teaching of God’s Word that one can profess faith in Christ while living the life of a homosexual. Only want to share truth not attack people. God loves everyone. God bless 🙂
Kelly, the trouble is it’s not truth you sharing anyway. What about the homeless young man? Do you have no compassion for him. As a parent would you advocate expelling your children from home when you find out they are gay?
I am one who has been a Christian since I was 5 years old. I saw Jesus at that time and from then on I have been a believer. He was reaching out his hand to me and touched me and because I saw Him, I have been blessed. This was before I even had any idea of sexuality at all. I then came to realize when I was in my late teens that I had same sex thoughts. I fought these for a long time as I could not reconcile for awhile that I was a Christian who was gay. But the verse that states that all desire and temptation is common to humans (I Corinthians 10:13). This means that ALL desires are common to humans and even Christians. To deny that Christians can struggle with same sex desires or any other desire is to deny the scriptures. It is what one does with what desires that come to one that is important, as well as to fail or succeed does not deny that one is a Christian or you condemn yourself as well.
I have studied out the Bible and come to what I believe and am appalled at the lack of compassion and love for enemies amongst many Christians. We all struggle and some of us chose one way to deal with these issues and others chose another way. But Jesus calls us to love others as what we want them love us.
I also notice that many Christians have an emotional answer to red flag issues of which this is one. No grace is shown, nor do they read and listen to the heart. How are we to witness to what Jesus did, if we are vinegar sourpuss Christians with a legal and toxic speech and writing toward others. Only when we sit down and listen to others, let them become comfortable with us, let us be able to love them and listen then speak, but with words of grace with some salt as the Holy Spirit leads. Also we Christians need to stop throwing stones because we also are sinners just in different ways. John 11.
I continue to attend church, but I have found a very loving people who believe and live grace and love toward others. It has helped me to be open and to be prayed for. And as I write this I weep with tears of shame that so many Christians are toxic and an offense to man and God and not the cross.
You know I find it odd when most Christian says that God hates homosexuals so much that it seems that it outweigh everything. The very same God died for the very same sin that they thought He detest it so much. While God send His own Son to die for sins, these folks send their own sons and daughter to die in their own sins. Homosexuals are often seen as enemies of God, blasphemers etc. Tell them God hates them long enough they’ll start to believe it and in return hate the very God you preached about and in return you’ll feel somewhat blessed because you’d see yourself being mocked for your faith. Sadly some are forever lost and while the one who are afraid of who they are, their feelings, their struggles, who often heard of how much God hates them rendered themselves hated and rejected and gave up hope believing God made them that way. Where would these who still desire God and in need for help, acknowledging their sins go to when they can’t even turn to God because they thought God hates them. How many times have you heard them say God hates me? The last thing they’d go for help is a christian and few desperate enough find good Christians who’d taught them the truth but most gets something different entirely. What is truth? Jesus is truth, if they had preached right about what Jesus had done instead of how much God hates them, they’d understand and know better. Jesus won hearts through love, I’m sure that if they could grasp the love Jesus had shown, they’d love Him too enough for them to never wanting to disappoint Him again. Who wants to disappoint the one they love? But if you teach them how much God hates them, how they are an abomination, how they needs to die, stoned, how could they ever understand Gods love? Repentance isn’t at a snap of a finger, you cannot change instantly, even if you have repent you’d still sin. I have heard people say a homosexual who have repent isn’t gay anymore. You’ll always have that tendency to sin until your body is changed and that happens when we are resurrected with a new body. It sure seems easy for those who aren’t homosexuals to ask them to repent. I don’t doubt that even they themselves have repent from all their sins altogether, they only repent of sins they can easily repent.
I like your comments, very thoughtful.
One of my best friends was gay. He was a Christian and he struggled with his desires. He was a wonderful man, kind and caring and lots of fun. His family, all Christians, loved and accepted him.
I have read all the comments, and I sometimes wonder if those that are being so harsh know any homosexuals, and if they forget that we are all sinners and God offers forgiveness to all of us.
How do we demonstrate God’s love if we only show hatred?
Hatred is a sin if directed to a person…saved or not. Hatred of a sinful act is not wrong. Christians have to be clear about this. If a person who claims to be a Christian ” lives” (characteristic of life) in hatred of other people then he is not a Christian. How could he be? Westboro Baptist Minister Cult leader Phelps comes to mind.
Often Gay activists use the Westboro Cult as emotive propaganda to further their cause, and silence real Believers and true Christianity.
If a person ” lives” in a particular sin – in this case homosexual acts – (could be gluttony , self righteousness, murder, thievery, etc.) then he is not a Christian. How could he be?
This is not to say there is no ” struggle” against sin. Real Christians know this and experience this battle often. St.Paul writes of this struggle, and Believers are commanded to take control of their desires with the help of the Holy Spirit (“…put on the whole armor of God…”). Self control is a very un- American concept these days, but nonetheless it was, is, will be always a Christian command.
I would add… the battle against ones personal sin(s) is probably an evidence that the person who claims Christ as Lord is a Believer.
Leo,
Works-based religion is not a popular idea here on this blog. We focus on liberating people from such ideas by focusing on the love and grace of God as revealed in the person and work of Jesus Christ. We take sin seriously, but we do not believe God is in the business of sin management.
To see how various texts are explained and various theological concepts argued, try using the search area near the bottom of the blog.
As for this love the sinner hate the sin concept, here is a post to get you started: https://redeeminggod.com/love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin/
This is really and truly heartbreaking! I so wish I could help people like this but don’t know how.
I haven’t read all the comments but I found many anti-gay and judgemental comments that grieve me deeply. Check out Kathy Baldock’s website – she’s done extensive research into the history of anti-gay propoganda, the psychology of gay people (they’re normal, by the way) and also, the real scriptural interpretation. I also like Matthew Vines’s work – full of scriptural stuff – if you have to take the Bible literally enough to treat other people like dirt, that may help you. Sorry, for the sarcasm. Bigotry gets to me big time! And I use to believe the same things as you. I really did. Look at all the info with an open mind, keep open to Jesus’s love. Really, Christ is the Word of God and we should look to him more than anything else in this life as an example. The only people Christ criticized were the religious! They put the law (the Bible is our new law) above loving others. Beware!
http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/
http://www.reformationproject.org/
I’m thinking of starting “Adultery Pride” group for born-again, bible believing Christians. We all live under grace…why not enjoy the urges of the flesh? God made me that way didn’t He? Please refrain from any hateful, bigoted responses about my new group.
You may be a little late on that. My pastor friends tell me there are already chapters of that group in most towns and cities.
Excellent, we can’t have enough people willing to live a prideful sin filled lifestyle…more grace to abound!
I’m not condemning that’s what God’s Word says! Homosexuality along with other things are sin! Sin is sin there’s no black and white! Yes God loves you, yes God will forgive you if you repent! Now all you fine people have a blessed day!
It’s between you and the Lord sister! He knows your heart. No one will ever convince me same sex marriage is approved by God Almighty not when His Word clearly says it’s an abomination. If you ask for forgiveness and repent then yes He will forgive us of all sin. I will no longer comment. I’ve said my peace. God knows my heart! Thank you! 🙂
Sam Riviera’s piece about homosexual teen homelessness is a special case in my opinion, and not worthy of either side getting worked up over. What makes it a non-starter is that the teen is a dependent living under a parent’s roof, attending family functions, interacting with younger siblings, attending school, and sharing their health insurance policy. Living with a sexually active teen is a whole different issue than one involving a twenty-something who is independent. The father in the story may have really meant that it would be better if he himself was dead rather than to be subjected to daily reminders that his teen rejects his moral values and family rules – specifically the one pertaining to sex outside of marriage.
Al, Shaun was very afraid of his dad, who has a bad temper. I’m not sure dad’s attitude towards his son really had much of anything to do with anything he learned at church (which he rarely attended) or read in the Bible (if he ever read the Bible). It probably had a lot more how dad, Mr. Macho, thought the guys at work and his buddies would react to the idea that he had a gay son. There is no mention of whether or not Shaun was sexually active. The point of Shaun’s story really has very little to do with him being gay. It has lot more to do with the fact that he ran away because he was afraid of his dad, and now he’s in an extremely dangerous situation, homeless on the street. How will he survive? Will he make it off the street alive?
Let’s not forget that Jesus called not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. We are all sinners and we all had our own set of problems when Jesus called us. Telling people to fix their sin problems first before we tell them about the love of Jesus, and before we show them the love of Jesus…..that’s putting the cart before the horse. Preach the gospel at all times, and if you have to…use words. Show the gospel first with your actions, then your words will have more meaning. I’ve never met him, but it seems like Sam Rivera does a good job of showing Jesus love with his actions/ministries. I’m humbled by the servant heart that seems to come across in his ministry to the homeless.
Thank you Dave. You’ve got it right with “Show the Gospel first with your actions.” While my wife and I think it applies in most situations, it definitely does in being friends with the homeless. Many of them find the street “preachers” offensive. I agree. To assume someone is a “sinner” just because they’re living on the street is insulting. Get to know them, and you discover that there are definitely believers living in the street. They and the others there quickly tire of being someone’s religious project, someone who assumes that homeless = sinner.
Whether it be the richest person we know or the poorest, most people don’t care what you say until they know you care. That means relationship. Building relationships takes time, and genuine interest in the other. Some love also helps. And listening. And learning to answer questions, rather than providing answers to questions the other hasn’t yet asked. People usually listen to our answers to the questions they’ve asked, be it how to fix a hole in the middle of a piece of sheet rock, or why we live our lives as we do.
The idea of this series of “Letters To Dad” is that I write about twenty stories about homeless and runaway youth/teens in the form of letters to their dads, letters that briefly tell their stories, stories from a variety of kids who have a variety of reasons for being homeless.
What I find very telling in the comments is that most of those commenting said nothing about Shaun. No one, after reading the last paragraph of the letter asked if he is still alive. No one asked how they can help Shaun or those in the same boat as him get off the street. Instead, most people wanted to talk about does gay = sinner or not?
The story makes no mention of whether or not Shaun is sexually active. (Being gay does not necessarily = being sexually active.) The story makes no mention of whether or not he is a Christian. (He’s not, never has been, and has no interest in religion of any sort.) It makes no mention of whether or not dad is a Christian (That’s a big ?) or if he even attends church.
Statistically, and in all probability, if Shaun wasn’t sexually active before he ran away, his chances of being so greatly increase once he’s on the street. Teenage boys (gay and straight) on the streets are targets for men (men who usually identify as “straight”) who will pay them a few dollars for sex, and also for those who take what they want and don’t pay (commonly called rape). Do we care? As followers of Jesus, do we care? If not, why not? Do we care, or would we rather not know what is happening to these kids?
It is a tough thing to get involved with people such as Shaun, and most will not take that step out of fear. Most people want their lives in order so they can have as few problems as possible. Witness the way many Christians and churches handle these type of situations. The pew sitters give money to assuage any guilt over not getting physically involved. Churches do the same. At the church I’m currently attend they give money to a community ministry so they funnel all the needy towards them so as to not get their hands dirty.
My experience from last year(written of in a blog post here), as it has been before, was very messy. You try to help people out of love for Jesus, and his children, and you get taken advantage of. I think we hope for fairy tale endings, and life isn’t always that way. You Sam are exhibiting the love of Jesus in a way that no church building, no church service, no sermon, no youth rally could ever show. If we want to win people to Christ we need to meet them where they are at…and love them. It’s not easy, I will get burned again because as a follower of Jesus I will continue to try to help people who are down. We all need to. Scott Wesley Brown wrote a song called “Living in the comfort zone” years ago, we would all benefit.
https://scottwesleybrown.bandcamp.com/track/living-in-the-comfort-zone
“The pew sitters give money to assuage any guilt over not getting physically involved. Churches do the same.” Unfortunately we’ve seen this happen. What is even worse, there are those people who have identified this happens and spend their time fundraising for their group which they claim helps (fill in the blank with homeless kids, homeless veterans, etc. etc.). However, 95% or more of the money is used for administration expenses, which means the salaries of the fundraisers, office rent, car allowances and so on. Sound like any organization you’ve heard of?
Not all groups are like that, but what’s the point of giving money to an organization that uses most of the money to keep the organization alive and whose main purpose is fundraising?
I gave up hope that Christians would accept homosexuality or homosexuals a while ago. There are too many lies on both sides to have a meaningful dialogue and no interest in one anyway. Conflicts over homosexuals usually boil down to power relationships with no middle ground so no incentive to understand. Are gays better off dead? Some of us yes. You see we can get broke early and learn to hate our lives. Hard habit to break once it starts. I routinely wish I was shot at birth. One of my fav fantasies is about going back in time to slash my dad’s tire at his workplace the night I got conceived so he’d be too tired coming home to mess around. Dad might have the same fantasy who knows. Of course a lot of younger gays are being accepted by their families now so in their cases staying alive is, in fact, better than dying. In both cases neither the Bible nor the Faith has anything to do with it. Comes down to whether the parents and family love the child they have or just the child they wished they had.