It is common in Christian circles to hear admonitions to “Love the Sinner; hate the sin.”
More and more I hear this said in the context of LGBT people and gay marriage.
“Oh, I don’t hate gay people, I just hate the gay lifestyle. … You know, I love the sinner, but hate the sin.”
There are so many things wrong with the “Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin” statement, I hardly know where to begin. So let’s begin with a laugh:
Now… on with the post…
There are several things wrong with the statement, “Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin.”
Let’s begin with the word “sinner”
The simple fact that we label the person we are talking about as a “sinner” indicates that we do not have love for them in the first place.
To label someone a “sinner” is to imply that they are outside of God’s grace and unless they clean up their act, cannot be forgiven.
To label someone a “sinner” reveals an “us vs. them” mentality, where you are the “righteous” person looking down your nose at the poor, wretched, ignorant “sinners” down below who just cannot get their act together. If only they would listen to what you tell them to do…
We Christians pay lip service to the idea that “We are all sinners” but we reveal that we do not really believe this when label someone else a “sinner.”
By labeling them a “sinner,” we condemn the sin of someone else as worse than our own.
Then there’s the word “hate”
When a watching world says Christians are full of hate, it is not a good strategy to tell them that we don’t hate them we just hate their sin.
Why do we have to “hate” anything?
Is it because God “hates” sin?
Well, there are some statement like this in the Bible, but such statements require great care in understanding and applying them to life.
We have to understand why God says what He says.
We also have to recognize that even if God does “hate” (which I don’t think He does … at least, not the way we understand it), He doesn’t anywhere tell us to hate.
Furthermore, we have to recognize that when God uses this sort of language about certain sins, it is not because He that upset at the person for committing the sin, or even at the sin itself for being so “terrible.” God isn’t nearly as worked up about sin as we are. God is not in the sin-management business.
The reason God says some strong things about certain sins in the Bible is because these sins hurt us, and He loves us, and doesn’t want to see us hurt by sin.
So if you really, really want to hate someone’s sin, hate a sin which is actually hurtful to them and to others. Hate a sin like rape, murder, incest, child abuse, torture, sex slavery, or one of the other multitudes of damaging and destructive sins.
But why do we Christians sometimes focus on hating the “sins” in others that they say results in love and community? If a homosexual couple wants to get married because they say they love each other, why would we say they cannot?
“Because it destroys families!”
Really? How exactly does their love hurt your family? I suspect any problems in your family might be found a bit closer to home…
“Because it destroys the definition of marriage!”
Is it really? And even if it does, so what? What is more important? The definition of a word or a relationship between people? Don’t use an argument over the definition of a word as an excuse to hate people. That sounds an awful lot like something a Pharisee would do in the days of Jesus. Even if the definition of marriage changes, will that somehow ruin your marriage? I cannot possibly think how.
“Yeah, but … but … AIDS!!! They’re gonna get AIDS and AIDS will hurt them and so I’m just trying to warn them about the dangers of AIDS! You see? I am concerned about them! I don’t want them to get AIDS!”
… If this is how you express your concern, I think they don’t need it.
I could say so much more about this, but I must move on. Here is a post which says more: Love the Sinner, hate the sin is really just hate
There is also a problem with the word “sin”
Yes, yes, “sin” is a biblical word. No, I don’t want people to stop talking about sin.
But here is what I have noticed in my own life, and among the majority of Christians.
We all have our “favorite sins” we commit.
We have sins we ourselves commit all the time that we don’t bat an eyelash at. And when someone point out to us the sin in our own life, we say, “Well, Christians aren’t perfect, you know.” Or maybe we say, “Thank God for grace!” Or possibly, “Yeah, I know that’s an issue, but God is working with me on that.” Occasionally, we may even justify our behavior and says, “What?! No, that’s not a sin! Stop judging me!”
Lots of these “favorite sins” in Christians circles are even “Pulpit approved.” That is, pastors and churches leaders raise up these “sins” as virtues to be acquired.
The sin of pride is called “healthy self-esteem.”
The sin of gluttony is called “Respecting the wife’s cooking.”
The sin of laziness is called “relaxing after work.”
The sin of greed is calling “planning for the future.”
The sin of national idolatry is called “patriotism.”
The sin of hate is called “warning them of the fires of hell.”
The sin of anger is called “standing up for what I believe.”
And so on.
These are our favorite sins, and we have baptized our sins to make them acceptable and even praiseworthy. And even when our sins our not praiseworthy, we allow ourselves excuses which we never allow to anyone else.
And then we have our “favorite sins” we like to point out in others.
These sins are ones we typically do not commit, but we use these to make ourselves feel better about our own sin. How? We point them out in others and condemn them and their sin for all the problems in the world and in society.
Ironically, when we point out the “sin” in others, we hardly ever allow them to use the same “excuses” toward us that we use toward others about the sin in our own lives. We tell them that their sin is worse than ours. That their sin is destroying the unity in the church. That their sin is bringing down our country. That their sin is perverting our culture. That they better fix their life right now, or God is going to kill them and punish them and send them to hell to burn forever.
More ironically still, the favorite sin we love to condemn in others the most are usually the sins that are mentioned by Scripture the least, whereas the “favorite sins” we ourselves commit are the sins that get a lot of attention in Scripture.
Take the most popular “sin” in America to condemn right now: homosexuality. It is mentioned 3 times in the Bible (6 times at the most, depending on how you want to understand a few terms).
But how often are greed, pride, slander, gluttony, anger, and hatred mentioned? I don’t know, but it’s probably in the hundreds for each one.
So why have we picked out this one “sin” as the one to focus on?
Because we need a scapegoat to blame for our own sin, and the “other,” the “outsider,” the “one who is not like us,” is always the person who gets chosen to be the scapegoat.
So to bring this back around…
When we say, “Love the sinner; hate the sin,” what we are really saying is “I will love only those I want to love, and I will hate and despise and cast out those people who do things I have decided are worse than the things I myself do, and this way I can make myself feel better while I condemn them for all the problems that I myself have contributed to but don’t want to admit.”
That’s my problem with the word “sin” in that statement. It sets us up in the position of God to decide which sins are worse than others, and which sins can be overlooked and which cannot. It makes us the arbiter or grace and forgiveness.
Which is the worst sin of all? When we say “Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin” we ourselves commit the worse sin possible, by setting ourselves up in the position of God to decide which sin is acceptable and which is not. We Christians must repent of this self-idolatrous, scapegoating judgmentalism of others.
And finally, the entire “Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin” statement is complete BS
If you just take the statement as a whole, it makes no sense.
People are complex creatures, and psychologically and emotionally, it is nearly impossible to separate what a person does from who a person is. This is especially true when a person is the way they are because they were born that way.
Forget homosexuality; take obesity as an example.
Many people who are overweight say that they were born with a slow metabolism, or they have some sort of disorder. Or maybe they went through some difficult times in life that were out of their control and psychologically turned to food for comfort. Or maybe they were just born with tastebuds and a stomach that really liked to eat good food.
Now imagine going up to such a person and saying, “Overeating is a sin. I love you, but I hate your fatness.” How will such a person respond?
I believe that person will be rightly offended.
Here’s the bottom line: If you love someone, you love all of them — even the lifestyle choices that might have resulted from sinful actions and behavior.
This does not mean you have to agree with what they do, but instead, you simply view the things in their life that you don’t agree with the same way you view all the sinful habits and choices you make in your own life.
And how do you want people to view you and your sin? You want to be loved while others withhold judgment.
This also is how you should view others who do things, say things, or live in ways that you think are “sinful.” Just love them, and withhold judgment.
And look, if you really want to start judging some sin somewhere, start with the whole mess in your own life first. Stop pointing out what you think is the sinful behavior in other people, and instead, work on the stuff in your own life.
I think Jesus said something about that… (You know … something about specks in their eye and a log in your own?) And when the Bible does talk about the relationship between love and sin, it says that love covers a multitude of sins. Hmmm…
The One Word I Like
So when it comes down to it, the only part of the “Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin” statement that I like is the word “love.”
And why can’t that be enough? When we see someone else behaving in ways we don’t approve of and which we think is sin (and as long as it’s not illegal or harming someone), why can’t “love” be the only word that comes to our mind?
Apparently, Jesus loved this other person enough to die for them. And if He loved them, why can’t we?
So the next time you are tempted to say you “Love the Sinner; hate the sin,” just stop at love.
Mike Gantt says
Jeremy, I don’t know whether you’ve changed or I never really knew you. In either case, your recent posts have caused me great concern, and when I have written from that concern you do not appear to have appreciated it. Therefore, I’m going to unsubscribe. I felt that I owed you the respect of telling you that I was doing so. I cannot reconcile the views you have been expressing with the views of Jesus.
Jeremy Myers says
Mike,
Thanks for letting me know. I have valued you and your online friendship over the years. I never wrote about my conviction that we should love gays and homosexuals without judging them before because I knew it would be polarizing. Please understand that I am doing my best to follow the views of Jesus as well. We just understand His views differently.
Mike Gantt says
Thanks for the reply, Jeremy. May the Lord’s true view prevail.
Sam says
I suspect the “true” view is your view . . . . you can never know the LORD’s view.
Leah says
Jeremy, I stumbled across your blog via Google, and I must say…. I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT!
Nena says
YES we can know the Lord’s view regarding “sinners like us”. And as a sinner, I have received God’s wonderful love manifested in many ways. That is why I know God loves me–a sinner–but hates the sin I am committing.
Berfert says
We do, in fact, know the Lord’s views! That is what the Old Testament and the New Testament ARE!
Sam:
“God can handle all the diversity, chaos and even deviation that come Her way.”
Jesus prayed to His FATHER, and not His mother. If that escapes you, how can you be credible with any thing else?
Sam:
“Please…JESUS WAS NEVER CLEAR! 4GOODreason! Wrestle, brother!!!”
Jesus, in Matthew 19:4–6 clearly says, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
John 16:12-14
While Jesus was still on earth, He told the disciples that He had much to say to them, things which they could not bear at that time, and He promised that the Holy Spirit would come to the disciples and would guide them into all truth. This is a promise from Jesus Himself that the words the Holy Spirit would speak, through the disciples, would be Christ’s own words. In this way, the Spirit would glorify Jesus.
So did Jesus address homosexuality? Yes, clearly, He did. He did so by sending His Spirit to superintend the writing of Paul such that what Paul wrote was precisely what Jesus intended, so much so that it could be said to be “God-breathed.” Jesus condemned homosexuality by means of Paul’s condemnation of homosexuality. And therefore, to deny that homosexuality is sinful is to deny Jesus Himself, and that is irreconcilable with true, biblical Christianity.
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
Matthew
5:17–18 Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”
Matthew 5:19
“Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Sam
“Clearly, you are not even in Christ’s ballpark.”
Right back at ya, although Christ has no ballpark. He is seated at the right hand of our Father.
Revelation 22:18-19.
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this Book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this Book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the Book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this Book” That is very clearly written.
Mary Jo says
You can ALWAYS know God’s view, it’s literally in black and white, Torah ! He makes it very clear what sin is. Praying for you always in love and truth!
Andrew says
We can all know the Lord’s view by faithfully reading and praying through the whole of Scripture that the Lord has left as His revelation for us all so we can and will know. Our Triune Lord doesn’t want deaf, dumb, and blind followers, He wants mature adult disciples who know (and live) what He wants for us and from us all. Without knowing the Lord through His Scripture then we are most likely (or highly prone) to following a Jesus of our own or someone else’s making. Take and read, like Saint Augustine, and learn to love and live for the Lord through Scripture as He intends. And that means all of it, both Old and New, not just the parts we like or that are easier to understand. Using a concordance and related lexicon for many Hebrew and Greek words that often don’t translate fully into English helps a great deal too. It’s a lot of work, but that’s what we should do if we truly love the Lord and want to know, love, and serve Him (and others) better as He wants us to.
In Christ,
Andrew
Rebecca says
I feel you are trying to do God’s job for him. It is not our place to judge, it is God’s place. God doesn’t need your help in judging other people. I think you will be surprised after you die and God asks you why you thought you knew so much when you didn’t know anything at all. I hope for your sake you have an answer by then.
Jim says
You too.
Andrew says
1 Corinthians 5 (the entire chapter) says otherwise when it comes to our responsibility to judge those within the church. It is also our responsibility to “proclaim the gospel to all nations”, which means that we are to profess the Lord’s judgement against them and His means of saving them from it by repenting and following His Son.
There is no salvation for anyone without the blessings of initial and ongoing judgement, the one that saves and the ones that keep us there. The Lord has made it quite clear who will not inherit His Kingdom unless they get right with Him on His terms, not theirs, and of we are not presenting that to them then we are not being faithful to the Lord in (not) doing so. Jesus didn’t just come to save you, me, or anyone else so we could sit back and enjoy it without being His laborers for a greater harvest. That is made clear in Scripture, which we will gladly follow if the saving grace and new life with the Lord we claim to have is honest and true.
In Christ,
Andrew
Martha Pena says
Reading this post concerns me as a Christian who tries their hardest to walk the way Jesus walked. Though we all fall short and are covered by the grace of our heavenly Father he still gives His commandments and tells of our sins that we are to repent and turn from or else warns of our destiny. We have two choices, heaven or hell, bible is clear on that. If we don’t warn our brothers and sisters, OUT OF LOVE for them then we are not being very loving. God told the woman at the well, go and sin no more… he states to turn from your evil ways. Jesus was the perfect example on how to live. He faced trials and temptations and overcame them all. He has given us all that ability if we just have faith and trust in Him and allow Him to lead us by the one He left with us, the Holy Spirit. God said in the last days good will be called evil and evil will be called good. Just cause a man loves a man does not mean it is good because our flesh calls it LOVE. Jesus doesn’t see it that way. Romans 1:27… At the same time telling a small white lie is just as sinful as homosexuality. The Good News is… it is all forgivable as long as you repent and turn from those evil ways. We as humans put sins on a totem pole of good sin to worse sin. Fact is… Someone who commits adultery is the same as a homosexual or a liar or a murderer… It is all the same in the sight of God. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and I just pray the Lord teaches everyone exactly what this is and they refrain from doing it. With that said… God teaches us to use His word for correction and rebuking. We don’t stand idly by and watch our brothers and sisters commit suicide by not sharing the Word of God with them. The TRUE Word of God without sugar-coating it. God does not come to bring peace but a sword.. Mt 10:34 you can read that in its entirety. There is no grey area with the Lord. Not all is a go with the Lord. He says I want you hot or cold if you are lukewarm I will spew you out of my mouth, found in revelations. You are either for Him and want to please Him or you are against Him. Receiving the Lord does not mean continuing to be sinful but rather made a new creature in Him. The old things pass away and all things become new. Read your bible and take to heart all the Lord says and does as He tells us to do in Phil 4:9. We have to quit being scared politically correct Christians and stand up for the Word of God. Not in anger but in love. That is what we have to learn how to do. However, when we do it in love and they want to poke fun or mock you or Jesus the Lord already told us the world will hate us because they first hated Him. The Lord also tells us to go to a brother in love Gal 6:1. He tells us how to correct a brother or sister in Christ who we see sinning. If you follow the instructions of God in Mt 18:15-17 and your brother or sister still continue to sin we are to let them be and not have anything to do with them. God’s Words not mine. The truth is not always pretty but the truth is the truth whether you want to face it or not. We can’t sugar-coat anyone’s sin and by accepting it and saying that is love is actually murdering them without even realizing it. Heaven or Hell, good or bad, God or satan. However you want to put it… We have two choices!! If we LOVE God, we will do what is pleasing to Him and His will according to His Word.
Sam Riviera says
We have many friends who are not Christians. With few exceptions, they do not believe that Christians love them. Many times we have heard these friends say that Christians are good at quoting Bible verses, but without love. These friends refer to this as “selling religion.”
Really loving a person includes far more than telling them what the Bible says. It necessarily includes getting to know the person. This involves more than merely becoming acquainted. It includes spending time with the person. The person will know whether or not there is any love present on our part. Merely pretending to love someone rarely works. Love must be shown. Only then do we earn the right to be heard.
Sam says
AMEN!
Carl says
They refuse truth if it in error And refuse if in truth and love
If they are friends theyd be friends so how can you say that
As you know friends are friends
Your talking about unberlievers who dont even know the christians
you are talking about.
Karen M. says
Amen!
Sabi says
I just can’t believe in a G-d that can not differentiate between a white lie and murder. I believe that G-d is much smarter than that. All sins are not the same. Saying things like this makes Christianity look bad, just like saying that the world is 6,000 years old. It makes Christianity look foolish. Some sins are worse than others. If we humans can differentiate between sins, (manslaughter vs premeditated murder, robbery vs armed robbery, assault vs rape, etc.) then I’m sure G-d is smart enough to do the same and act accordingly when we stand before him in judgement. To spare someone’s feelings with a white lie is not a sin to me, it is an act of compassion.
Anna says
Saying “all sins are the same” is a new theological development that came along after much of the Reformation was over. The ancient Churches (Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, etc.) have always aknowleged some sin is “venial”(smaller) and some is “mortal”(unto death). Good luck on figuring out which is which, but there is some rational, at least.
pete says
Sin is sin and no sin will enter into the kingdom of Heaven. And yes, you can Love the sinner and hate the sin. It’s like your child. If they do something wrong (sin), the parent does not hate the child, but will still discipline them for doing wrong. There is nothing wrong with chastising the one you love. We are all sinner and when we sin the Lord chastises us. (whether we listen or not)
Steven Spacil says
Just because man assigns various levels of accountability to the death of another, to robbery, to assault, to rape, or to any other crime/sin; that does not mean that God does. Yes, there are instances in the Bible where the earthly punishments for certain crimes are spelled out in various degrees; but not in the afterlife. It’s one or the other. You either get to live with Him, or not.
Carl says
We are not meant to preach law
Whatever sin great or small it is trangression of law
We have the good news of life in christ and the fact Jesus took away sin and abolished the commands of law
I AM SICK OF PEOPLE PRETEBDING TO BE CHRISTIAN WHO REFUSE THE REVELATION OF GRACE GIVEN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT LEADING INTO ALL TRUTH THAT JESUS ABOLISHED THE WRITTEN CODE OF LAWS SMRARED THEM AWAY
TO GOD THERE IS NO LONGER ANY LAW
ONLY THE MESSAGE OF RECONCILIATION OF THE FORGIVENESS OF ALL SIN BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST AND THE COMMAND OF THE WORD TO BE OBEDIENT AND HOPE FULLY IN GRACE NOT WORKS OF LAW OF FLESH FOR HUMAN WEAKNESSESS
The church teaches disobedience to the godoel of grzce
Refuring to accept the violation of the written command codes of law has been made dead by christ on the cross
Now we are under grace justfied from all sin we are not under grace to try and overcome sin!! But to have full life delighting in weaknesses
Andrew says
This is one example from the Bible that proves not all sins are the same in the eyes of the Lord, they’re all wrong but they’re not all deadly:
If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly (1 John 5:16-17).
In Christ,
Andrew
Sam says
“We have two choices, heaven or hell, bible is clear on that.’ Here is where you strayed from truth and entered the realm of self-righteousness, sister.
Carl says
Wrong we by grace have believing Jesus is the son of God no judgment ever
or the last judgment of unberlievers
Based upon Jesus very word he spoke with a verdict of
Blessing or curse
Blake says
That is a sad sad statement seems like you are judging and want everyone to
think like you, fact is we are all different I would hate to think that Heaven is
filled with robots who have to do this or do that in order to be right with God
we did not ask to be created, we are just living our lives based on our view and
interpretation of things, we cannot possibly think like Jesus because we are not
perfect, fact is I dont want to worship a God that would ”ALLOW” a place like
HELL to exist, also tell me where the bible mentions hell, just once. Jesus would
have suffered in vain if there is such a place, then we are probably all going there
But like I said I do not believe in HELL because hell is full of hate and pain and misery, quite the opposite of God. Fortunately I do beleive in Jesus and God I
have been Baptized and have steered away from sinning on purpose, I cannot
sin on purpose, if I do sin then it is out of my control, God Have mercy on people
like you who actually beleive in such a horrible place.
Kate says
Mark 9:43 43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
God is quite blunt about hell. God is love -yes – and God is just. He gives us the opportunity to go to heaven and the ability to choose go to hell.
As for the topic above – sin is sin. Period. There are degrees of sin, but ANY sin committed is a sin that Jesus died for, and one that will keep a person out of heaven.
As for God hating sin, Proverbs 6:16 says ‘There are six things which the Lord hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him.’
LORD – translated from Yahweh and Jehovah in the OT – this is God.
Comparing obesity to homosexuality is quite a concept. Gluttony is a sin. Being overweight isn’t. That can be from a disease, hormomes, ect. As for homosexuality, God lists it with sin and says that they will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. 1 Cor 6:9
Should we hate anyone? No. As the author mentioned, we are to love. Loving someone does not mean agreeing with them. Nor does it mean not being able to tell the truth any longer. A sin – – is a sin.
Marcia says
PERFECT!!!!!!!!
YOU SAID IT ALL !
Carl says
Well if your replying to the kady quotibg Jesus talking to israel under law incorrect
For Jesus was talking about law at the time and even for his own teachings on law he said if they failed theyd be answerable to the sanheedrin
He was talking to those under the curse of continual works of law at the time
You need to understand the alw came by moses but grace a d truth by Jesus christ
Jesus had a plan though to deleiver those who were under the command to do law from law
Its called the gospel
Paul says
Very well said!
Carolyn Lanier says
Very well said, I agree with you 100% yes one sin is as bad as the other one, and we all must repent for our sins, if we see a person getting ready to jump in the fire and don’t try to stop them aren’t we wrong, if someone is trying to commit suicide and we don’t try to stop them we can be held accountable, yes we are supposed to tell a thief if we see him stealing something, that he is doing wrong, and yes if we know of two women or two men living as lovers and we don’t stand up and tell them it’s wrong we are guilty to, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexual sin..God told them what sin was and if we are a Christian we are supposed to be doing just as he did..
Carl says
Change your mind about sin?
That is gain knowledge of law your preaching
The good news is not that
Repent and believe in Jesus to be dead to sin is
Julie says
Amen.
Julie says
Amen, Ms. Carolyn.
DONALD STOKLEY says
I agree 100%. Amen.
Abdi Girmae says
With all due respect, I believe you were being sincere but I would like to correct you it wasn’t the woman at the well but the woman caught in adultery.
Debra Bolyard says
I totally agree with what Martha Pena posted.
Von says
Jesus was tortured and died because of sin. What He identifies as sin in the Bible is sin. He sure didn’t take it lightly and His death is proof. We have to address it whether it be our own or others ina loving way ,when ever possible. Concerning ourselves with what Christ is concerned about is true love. Love is not always pleasant,warm and fuzzy. We, as Christians need to be extremely prayerful about how we offer that love,
but never compromise truth. We have to be willing to love and forgive those Christian that have been harsh also. The standard that God proclaims is always what we Christians should go by and ask God for guidance.
Carl says
Yes so let me see Jesus took away the sins of the world making you dead to sin so you can adress your own sin ( and others sins)
Lol
GM Casey says
You have put the love cart before the horse. Matt 22:37-39
37. Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38. This is the first and greatest commandment. 39. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’…
To aid & abet any sin against God is not loving him, the sinner or ones self. God looks at our hearts, He’s NO respecter of persons. Jesus told the adulterer to, “go & sin no more.”
RE: Judgment
Everything we say & do is a matter of our judgment & Jesus didn’t prohibit it.
1 cor 2:15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
1Cor 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
Prov. 3:21 My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight;
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.
Carl says
Yes let me see you quote the law you judge by law? So you judge yourself ( and others) by law?
So you think Jesus died to set you free from all the commands of the law so you could the judge yourself by it
Lol
John says
Are there really “different” views of Jesus? How can you have a view and I have a view and Joe have a view and they can be different? Where does having a view trump what is written in the Bible?
Karl Emmerich says
Hi – I first of all don’t want to detract from your ministry. It appears that you’re doing some great things. I just wanted to comment on your review of “Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin”.
True, Calvin and Hobbes offers a bit of humor through the contextual interpretation of “Love the Sinner…” In other words, it’s a humorous misapplication of the phrase. I agree.
But labeling someone as a “sinner” is not at all an edict for the removal of someone from God’s grace as much as it is a prerequisite for inclusion. Indeed, God’s grace is FOR the sinner. The label is essential in our understanding of our need for God’s Grace. Christ came to “seek and to save those who are lost”, aka, “sinners”.
“Love the Sinner / Hate the Sin” is an interpolation from St. Augustine. In examining either “love the sinner” or “hate the sin”, or both of them cited together as “Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin”, there could be no greater interpretation of what the Bible states.
This is backed up by countless passages including, “Love your enemies, bless those that curse you…” This is “LOVING” the sinner, not a justification of the sin.
Thanks for your ministry and a chance to deliberate.
-Karl
Jeremy Myers says
I see what you are saying. But labeling someone a sinner is not a good way to start a relationship with someone.
Carl says
Lol you must be right
I mean who could really argue sith that!,
It is hilarious some of the comment on here is by people thinking we are under the command of the law and not dead to law
You to think so still
Or i ask you what is sin?
Lol
Jared K Hamilton says
Please forgive my online random reply to your article.
There is something that I have never heard preached or talked about regarding homosexuality. But there is a need to address it.
If I choose to murder someone, that is a sin. If I know God, and continue murdering every blue moon, that is sin. Same goes for shoplifting, cursing, etc. why doesn’t homosexuality fit In those groups? To me, the answer is this:
A gay marriage certificate is a signed agreement to verify that you will defy God every day. Multiple times per day. For LIFE.
I AM NO JUDGE and I am not given special authority to hate, so don’t go there. These people need to be loved. Need to be in church. Need God. But—BUT:
What is a reprobate mind?
And also, what happens to those who glorify man over God? Who have Idols?
Gay marriage puts your love for that person ahead of your obedience to god. You have, in action(not effect!) proclaimed that you have a sin and you do not care to work at putting it away. I, too have sin That is nearly impossible to separate from me, and I have had bouts with it my whole life. But I’ll never sign a piece of paper saying I will do it for the rest of my life. If they legalize it in california, I’m not moving!
We should be there, help, be wonderful people to any person of any sin- until we see a reason to be removed from that person. I do not feel that spite/regret/anger is ever warranted, it’s not ours!
No sin is greater than any other. All sin is equal. All sin removes us from the presence of the Lord. And to know someone you must be in their presence and TRULY I TELL YOU I DO NOT KNOW YOU is a real bad ending.
So how can you preach that it’s okay, knowing that?
Carl says
We are dead to law murder is of the devil but we are not under law
The law said do not commit adultery Jesus said looking lustfully at a women is adultery and some of you once were adulterers homsexuals but you were washed sa citfied and jistfied in the name of Jesus and by his blood redeemed fron the curse of the law not by having to do what it says but beleif in Jesus christ who naield it to the tree making you ead to it and its commands
Now paul says grace for lust for he said its better to have sex than to burn he said marriage but he didnt mean ritual but as it was in gensiss natirual no man inviolved
Some kf you by thr same accusation of the law that is now gone by jesus smearing it way so it cannot be any longer were homsexuals but you to were washed sanctified and justified by beleif in Jesus the son of God the christ and by his blood
And are under grace to be weak and delight in your weaknesses of burning and its better to have sex than to burn with lust and not ot marraige laws for thats law rebuilding and is law breaking and babylons state marriage is nothing and it shall be destroyed when Jesus judges babylon.
Gay marriage is bablyon state marriage also
Alina says
I’ve read your blogs before, and other ones had an innate scriptural basis. Your interpretations were strongly supported. What you have written here has no scriptural basis—it’s just condoning sin. People who commit pre-marital sex are commiting sin but not hurting others, and it is not something that needs to be encouraged—they are hurting their own soul. As God’s people, we are called to hate what God hates and love what God loves. At the same time, we have to talk the talk and walk the walk. You are just conforming into the tolerance of the worldly ways of the world, which is alarming considering you are a Christian. Your teaching is leading people astray and condoning and rationalizing obvious sin. There are many scriptures describing people like you. Some of them are these:
2 Timothy 3:5
Isaiah 9:16
2 Corinthians 11:13
The Bible is not meant to be “up for interpretation” accordance to the convenience of man’s thinking. There should not be gray areas and variations of opinion in the matters of the Bible. It’s not a literary analysis based on a novel or a short story. God meant His Word to be universal and unifying among the Body of Christ. Creating division in His Church and doctrine among fellow believers is the work of the devil. I will still tell you this, I love you as the sinner, but I hate your sin. I am not telling you that in condescension—I am telling you that to being you into the awareness that I disapprove it. This is exactly how God thinks of us in dealing with us and molding us closer and closer into His image by convicting us of our sin. Since we are made in God’s image, we are called to rebuke the sin of our fellow man in a token of love and concern for his soul and relationship with God. Sinners have a tendency of rationalizing their sin. The more you live within the graces of God, the less sinful you become. It still doesn’t mean you don’t ever sin, but you are a work at progress. Therefore, you can’t be really comparing the sins of a believer that is in active relationship with Christ with those sins that an unbelieving sinner commits that has no relationship with Him. God is not only concerned about those sins that hurt others. That is concerned about the sins that impede the person from having a relationship with Him and those that repell the Holy Spirit. Therefore, there is no comparison. God keeps us accountable to rebuke those who go astray because we are familiar with His Word and teachings.
So please, I wish you all the best, but let us let go of fairy tails, and comfortable and wishful thinking.
God bless you and all the best,
Alina.
Carl says
Shame the translaters didnt translate fairy tales then
They have decieved the church in many wats distorting the scriptures given to things sacrficed to devils and they aet such things and make nerchabdise of you and tolerate that woman who calls herself vaticanus which means i prophesy
She is babylon the great and Jesus shall destroy her
Amen.
Don Frazee says
The only way we will truly love others is if we truly hate sin. Christians were so focused on loving others and attempting to attract them to Jesus and the church that we stayed out of the political arena and sat by as our culture became tolerant, then complimentary, then arrogant and finally dangerous in their love for sin and rejection of God and his values. We loved people sincerely but did not hate sin enough to stand firmly and loudly against it. If your loved ones were headed at top speed toward a bridge that was washed out and you didn’t warn them you would sound foolish and cruel if you tried to say you really loved them, but they were so thrilled about where they were going that you didn’t want to interrupt their joy. I really appreciate your work. But I think what you are doing in this article is exactly what is wrong with our culture.
Brandi Poteat says
Jeremy,
I have a close relationship with God and even though I have, I struggle with the never-ending argument about homosexuals. And I’ve always disapproved of the saying, “hate the sin love the sinner” from the beginning because I feel the holy spirit says to me be careful of what you say. Like casting crowns song, “Slow Fade” part of the song says, “it is a slow fade when you give yourself away.” I do not think Christians realize how tradition and repetitive sayings have trained them to believe things like “hate the sin love the sinner” To me it just adds another tool to keep people divided. Which helps the devil win by keeping God’s people divided. When people tell me their sins I think… I don’t care, lets sit and talk. When they say they say I don’t see how God can love me, I say I agree I dont see how God can love me too so I just trust what I read in his word and hope, even if its as small as a mustard seed or smaller, hope and put faith that i can trust what his word says even if I do not see how he can from a human rational standpoint.
I didn’t mean to ramble but ultimately I want to say THANK YOU for standing with your conviction and writing this blog page or post or whatever it’s called. My brother is a big homophobic and I stopped going to his church because he and his friend, both of who are deacons in our church were sitting in Sunday school one day and making derogatory remarks about people of the LGBT community and I was heartbroken that they did.
My stance on the whole thing is that I am one soul in Christ, not male, not female, not jew or gentile. We are spiritual beings and to me, though our bodies have genders for the reproduction of the human race, our souls I do not think have a gender. At least that is how I see it and go with it. But the hate of heterosexuals toward anything different is so overwhelming. Standing for what I believe in means I will be physically attacked, assaulted, cursed at, shunned and so many things. Life is scary and the fact its so simple and easy to manipulate people’s minds is depressing. But enough of that, I just wanted to say thank you so very much for your post/blog. It means a lot and brings so much clarity. I hope you have many blessings.
Sam says
Haters will always hate but will never be Christ-like because of their sinfulness.
Lake says
Jeremy,
I’m not understanding what you are saying here. I AM a Christian. Do not beat around the bush here. No long running around in long circles to avoid answering directly. Do you believe the ACT of homosexuality IS or IS NOT a Sin? I’m not talking about Judging anyone here. Is or is not the ACT of homosexuality a sin? My next question is, do you believe that if one person murdered another person just because they felt like it, without the other person deserving it, would that murder be a SIN or NOT? Should I teach my son that he should go out to date young MEN, and find a great MAN for him to MARRY so he can have kids to raise them to live out homosexual lives IN THE LIGHT OF GOD’S GRACE. I live in Christ, because of the blood that was shed for me, setting me from the law of sin and death. I also believe that Homosexuals who accept Christ’s sacrifice and Love ALSO LIVE IN THE LIGHT OF GOD’S GRACE. And that They and I are no longer living under labels of sinner, homosexuals, alcoholics(I have been one), but are now ACCEPTED CHILDREN OF GOD! BUT!!!! I Don’t believe it is God’s desire that we as Christians teach our Children to have our male children to have sex with males, and our daughters to have sex with other females. Please Clarify, Is this what you are saying?
Jeremy Myers says
Lake,
You sound sort of like a Pharisee trying to pin down Jesus when they demand He answer their questions because He was loving people unconditionally.
Sadly, I am not Jesus, and so don’t have some witty answer to this trick question.
So I guess I will just follow the example of Jesus and say this: “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”
jason says
Did you answer Lake? Is homosexuality a sin?
Anna says
Jeremy,
I see (and agree on) some of the things you are rebelling against in the (protestant /non denom) “Churches.” Maybe, for the same reason, people tend to like Pope Francis’ remarks on “not judging” gay people/others. It is a separate issue whether the church you belong to will ask people to stop doing “as the world does” once they are members, or whether the church will bless polygomy, gay marriage, etc., and Pope Francis didn’t change what is taught about those things for his church.
I hear that you don’t want so-called Christians sounding ignorant, intollerant, or hateful. Do you hear that some of the readers simply want to know how you see church teaching on sin *in* the church (their own lives and their children’s instruction)? Paul pointed out that “thou shalt not judge” was not always an answer in 1 Corinthians when he said, “Do you not judge those *inside* the church?” He actually saw fit to teach that some actions are sinful. So what bothers me is that while you (often rightly) slam some of the American church’s attitudes, those who ask your views on sin are branded as “Pharisees.” Jesus was hard on the (actual) Pharisees, but he did not brand laymen and women “Pharisees.” Some want to know if you are bringing every behavior of the world into the church, and then *blessing it.* http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/5-12.htm
John the Baptist was executed for pointing out king Harod’s sin “with his brother’s wife.” Paul told one of the churches to “expel the immoral” member. They tended to the people who claimed to be leaders. Do you call John and Paul “Pharisees?”
Do you know the people you label “pharisees?”If I want to be a follower of Jesus, will you tell me to embrace my sexuality, no matter what it is? Or will you tell me that Jesus taught people of all persuasions to live chastely? I’m truly curious.
Lawrence says
Jesus said: “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven”
Then Saul goes on to qualify Jesus’s words. To speak FOR Jesus. A Pharisee who persecuted Jesus. And you so called Christians are so wont to recite the words of the person who persecuted your Savior and call them Gospel when the actual first hand accounts in the Gospels outright contradict a number of Saul’s teachings. Saul claims God proclaimed him Paul and takes over Jesus’s Word as his own. And you all cannot see the con?! Paul talks about devils and Antichrists when he in fact is the biggest Anti Christ of them all! I look to the words of the actual Gospels of what Jesus said, not the commentary given by some reprobate who murdered Saint Stephen for worshiping the man you claim you call your Lord. HARDLY!!! You and all other hats spewing Christians worship Saul of Tarsus and the sooner you repent yourself of your own idolatry of that hate filled man and go back to the ACTUAl teachings of Jesus, the sooner I will accept you as Christian. Saul saw a power vacuum and decided to fill it and had been mostly successful with corrupting the Gospel of the living God by writing the Pharisaical teachings right back in to a movement he himself hated. But because he claims he had a vision in the desert no one else was there to witness you are willing to just fall hook line and sinker into believing every contradictory word he says that somehow “clarifies” Jesus’s Word? Come on! Use the bloody brain God gave you! It all stinks of gaslighting and manipulation!!! Yet the majority follow Saul as if he is the Messiah, the one true messenger, and somehow claim Jesus’s Word was not clear enough and need clarified. Repent you Anti Christ and go back to the Word of the one TRUE savior and not his reprobate wannabe!
Carl says
Amen
But you could have said Jesus took away and the laws smearing away all its commznds on the cross which he did so that man is talking dung as the law does no longer exist and God asks people to believe in Jesus the son to be rightious and saved forever all by grace to live under grace not dead wirks
Thats all
J says
Jesus loved people. He showed love to people who were doing wrong.
Jesus ALSO pointed out what was wrong and to stop doing it (woman at the well + adulterous woman).
He did both. We should do both.
Carlos says
Where in this entire article was it said that anyone, Christian or otherwise, should actively teach their sons and daughters to have sex of any kind, hetero or otherwise? It’s simply not there….. why then would you even ask? Actually, I don’t need to ask why, because the motivation has been documented over millennia: it’s a tactic that is used to attack and discredit another, but is also a logical fallacy known as a ‘straw mank, where the attacker sets up a situation (the straw man) that does not actually exist and attacks it instead of having a rational discussion about what was actually said….. “Do you actually believe this thing you never said?” See, when you cut to the gist of your argument it sounds silly, doesn’t it?
Also, on the Internet, when someone insists on using random capitalization it’s viewed the same way as yelling at someone. ALL CAPS DOES NOT MAKE SOMETHING MORE TRUE! Whenever I see it is almost always accompanied by logical fallacies of many kinds.
Carl says
I dont think you need to teach anyone sexual biological functioning
Kassi Englehart says
I tend to agree with you! The ‘New Age Movement’ is a variety of many mixed religions and when God’s Word is quoted it is usually with a twisted message. What I do know is that Christians can truly love without agreeing with one another. My spouse and I love with disagreeing all the time. Love is to genuinely care for someone, willing to help and be there for them, and not want to see harm come to them! Coming from a large family I have a few gay family members. I love them BUT do NOT agree with ‘their’ choice in lifestyle (Romans 1:26-27)! I feel the same way towards homosexuality as I do fornication…adultery…and other carnal worldly desires (1 Cor 6:9-20). Sin is sin! The bible is clear on the subject of what ‘marriage’ is…and that is ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN! Only the False Prophets would be guilty of twisting it any other way! Yes…we all sin! Sugar coated preaching today sends mixed signals about the subject…leading some to believe that you can keep on sinning as long as you repent over and over again! Jesus told the woman at the well….”go and sin no more”! God doesn’t want us to continue living in sin and when we repent the confession should be sincere! We are warned that as we get close to the End Days there will be more false prophets leading others from the truth….and they will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them what their itching ears want to hear (2 Tim 4:3)!
These three references indicate that homosexual passions and acts are unnatural, shameful, contrary to sound doctrine and deny entrance to the Kingdom of God. This being so they cannot be the basis of a Christian marriage sanctioned by God’s Church. The Church exists to save people, not to bless the means of their damnation. No marriage can be sanctioned by the Church if the very basis of the marriage involves acts that put the couple outside of eternal salvation. No matter what our society may legislate, the law of God is clear—that a marriage is not a godly marriage if it is a same sex union.
I am not perfect and difficult considering the world we live in today filtered with sex images on tv…magazines…ect…. but I continue to strive to live to be Christ like and to avoid being in the midst of what God calls sin!
Now….does this mean it is impossible to love others that are not Christians? No! I feel the love and the compassion for all. I have come to know that find this to be a impossible concept…because they don’t feel the LOVE for all….and perhaps that is because they are NOT living and surrendering all for Him! I don’t have to agree with you to love you! I will always share His message because He tells me to….you have a choice to agree or disagree…I will love you and will not try to change you…in return….I would appreciate the same respect…don’t try to change me for believing and following the Words given to us by the Holy Father and His Son, Jesus Christ! God Bless!
Carl says
One thing to keep in mind is that any false teacher using the scriptures to prove God accused homsexuals who did homsexual acts of sin would have to be rebuilding the law of moses in order to prove thats what God in the new covenant commands men and women today.
So itching ears of law breaking law teachers prick up
And as for those sin lists on nt
its all losts of trangression of law lol
So good luck with that if your trting to prove beleivers ib christ trangress law when they are bot under law are dead to law because christ nailed it to the cross
Hahahah
You Fail every time you law breaking false teachers of law
brentnz says
Mike i have been thinking hard on this subject i hope you dont leave the forum as i think we will get into a good debate/discussion the Lord has shown me alot of insight into this subject that i hadnt even thought about until Jeremy proposed his point of view.The word say iron sharpens iron we need to understand what we believe not just walk away because we feel it is treading on our beliefs because they change as we learn and understand because we have believed something for a long time doesnt make it right.Use this opportunity to grow to learn and to understand what the Lord is wanting us to know if we cant do this as brothers how are we supposed to do it with unbelievers.brentnz
Sophie says
I just read the post and was greatly disturbed by this as well. Gotta be careful with what we read online. May you all be blessed with the gift of discernment in Jésus name!
Alan gagg says
I am with you! I have had this discussion with a pastor friend if mine who said Ghandi said this! I told him At least Ghandi got that right!
Sin can keep you out of heaven Jesus said if you live me you will keep my commandments he further told the adultress ,,,”go & sin no more” imagine Jesus saying, I love you & your just fine just keep going theway you are going because you are walking in love?
Carl says
The woman was a jew law was still in place
When jesus said go sin no more he was saying keep the law as sin is trangression of law
But when Jesus died he freed us from the law covenant now those commands are snrared away now we under grace in spirit not in flesh works of law
Hahaha divide the word properly understand moseaic covenant and grace and truth justfied by faith to live under grace dead to law and so dead to sin by the works of Jesus christ are of different covenants
Brenda Moore says
God loves people, his creation period! However from Genesis to Revelations His word is Absolute! It doesn’t change, it is not conditional; is not based on human emotions or opinions. God love us but commands us to separate our from our sins/to over come every sin. As children of God we are not judging when confront people of their sins. We tell them because they are in danger of God’s judgement not ours! We must align our life, behavior with God’s word. Truth is not to make you and I feel comfortable in our sins. It is love of God teaching, warning, rebuking, correcting;i nstructing us in righteousness, “without Holiness no man shall see God.” That love you speak of, well Agape love will tell his friend, family, bro/sis in Christ, the truth. It’s on them how the persons accepts and what he or she does with truth following hearing. We need to stop trying to make Christians feel guilty and remorseful because we don’t believe in the behaviors of gay communites by saying we hate them or we don’t love them! God has already revealed in His word how he stands on homosexuality and all sin as well. “All have sin and come short of the glory of God”; “All unrighteousness is sin.” He is just in all things! He loves us but He will not accept our sins. Why should he have allowed His precious Son to suffer and die? Just so we can continue to wallow in the lust of the flesh, ignore obedience just because we make a choice to live outside the boundaries of God, whatever the weakness/sin. Careful what we say is of God and God’s doing! He makes no mistakes! As a father, as a mother, I can love my child and hate what she or he does to bring destruction to self/family/Church; so you discipline that child. So it is with our Heavenly Father! True love is NOT pampering a person in their wrong. It’s the opposite! Love is tough! especially when it is prevailed upon to speak truth to any in spite of the cost
Carolyn Lanier says
?????? I agree ..
Barry Chandler says
I agree that saying we hate some sin is on thin ice and be taken wrong. I also agree we do focus on some sins more than others which is unfortunate. however, we cannot downplay how God does feel about some sins as opposed to others. you cannot read the scriptures and come away thinking that God views all sin as the same. Yes, all sin is ultimately rebellion against God. however, when you do see the sin of homosexuality mentioned in scripture, you do begin to get a glimpse of how God views the sin as opposed to others. He uses specific words to describe how destructive this particular sin is to individual and ultimately a culture. in fact, the scripture does say that every other Santa man commits is outside the body, but he that sends sexually since it gets his own body. we also look at Romans chapter 1 that lays out specific words that describes the sin of homosexuality as that being unnatural and an abomination, which is why in the law, got even said that if a man lies with another man he should be put to death. ultimately look at the cities of sodom and Gomorrah which got ultimately destroyed because the sin had spread throughout the whole city.
So, while I understand what you’re trying to say that we have to have the heart of Christ administering the people. it is very challenging to be in relationship with those people and communicate our love for them yet not embracing or participating with lifestyles that God clearly condemns. So your statement about homosexuals wanting to get married,
If a homosexual couple wants to get married because they say they love each other, why would we say they cannot?
this is very concerning to read this as the Bible says we clearly are to speak against these things but in love. John, the Baptist clearly told Herod that he could not have his brother’s wife because it was forbidden by God.
Yes, I understand. this is a very delicate balance between loving a person but rejecting their lifestyle. I’m struggling with that right now with my daughter who has turned away from the face and embraced LGBTQ. she wants nothing to do with me because she wants me to say it’s okay to be gay which I clearly can’t do that because God says it’s not okay. it’s a sin that will leave her to eternal death. So in love I have to say I love you and I accept you, but I do not and cannot accept this life choice as okay.
I’m sorry to say but you need to go back and re-examine your hermeneutical skills of scripture and re-examine your theology.
Jim Johnson says
I heard a guy say once, Love the sinner, hate your own sin. Makes sense.
Al Ferreira says
Ok, I strongly dislike sin! It cheapens us as humans! Stigma of sin made us a better society. Now that we entering an age where sin is a freedom of choice to be applauded by certain segments of society, it has ushered in an era of madness.
Brian Cordova says
I hate the legion of sins against the LGBT community and the abundance of mental and emotional torment it has caused for many.
Carl says
If by the spirit you put to death the deeds ( wotks) of the body you live
You are dead to law and dead to sin not by what you do but because christ who set you free to live you are under grace for your honsexual weaknesses free to delight in them and thank God for them !! but you have no inheritance by them but only because you believe Jesus is the son of God and because you do you are gaurenteed the inheritance
Amen
Grant Hawley says
Sin brings people into bondage and misery. It also causes harm to others. Am I not supposed to hate it when a man abuses his child, or when a person is overcome by addiction, or when believers tear each other down? Sin is an oppressor and I do hate it. I hate it because I love God but also because I love sinners.
Alan gagg says
Well said !I notice that Hell has been avoided in the discussion ! I guess the leading voice here believes in everybody will eventually end up in heaven?
Mike Goetz says
When I read typical objections to these kinds of posts, it seems what people struggle with is how we judge what is sinful, and what we do with that. So while we *want* to show the love of Jesus to everyone, the area of sexuality is a complicated one, because if you take a conservative position that homosexual sex is a sin, you find it difficult to reconcile this with people who accept or even celebrate that sin.
I have found a few of things helpful with this issue. Firstly, I remind myself that a good definition of sin is “missing the mark”. Rather than thinking about sin as the thing we do that makes God angry, I believe it’s more appropriate to think about sin as something we think/say/do that is outside of God’s ideal. Keeping mindful of this definition makes us more aware of our own inability to reach God’s ideal, and reduces the condemnatory view of sin. Also, consider that while we can miss the mark to the left (too liberal), we can also miss the mark to the right (too conservative).
Secondly, we are steeped in the Western evangelical view of the courtroom metaphor, where God is the judge, we are the wicked, sinful defendant, and Jesus is our rescuer/stand-in/defense attorney. Consider the predominantly Eastern orthodox metaphor that sin is a disease — we are afflicted with something that we cannot cure ourselves. God’s position, in contrast to an angry judge, is one of a concerned parent. He has the cure and is making it available to us.
I think we act out of our understanding of God. When we think of God as the accuser; the judge; the one pointing out where the sin is in our lives, we do the same.
Finally, a major complexity in this issue is how people’s *identity* is wrapped up in their sexuality. For all of us, our sexuality is part of who we are; it defines us (to varying extents). This is why the issue is such a hot button — we don’t tend to think about our gossip or weight as things that innately define who we are.
So I believe this is why we have to tread so carefully when it comes to homosexuality. To make a proclamation to the masses that you believe one group’s lifestyle or sexual practice is wrong cuts to the very core of their identity. But here’s the thing: as Christians we have our identity first and foremost in Christ; not our sexuality nor our “rightness”. I believe the best way we can work that through is in community with people that we trust. This is why I personally would go light on the judgment of what is sin, and heavy on acceptance. Then, walk with people who have a different view, learn from each other, and encourage each other towards identity in Christ and his ideal.
Jem says
We need a like button. I like what you have to say.
Sam says
I agree with everything you say, except that any love that does not harm another can never be labeled ‘sin’. When you say, “…you find it difficult to reconcile this with people who accept or even celebrate that sin,” you imply that same-sex love is sinful. It is not!
Alan gagg says
As I debated the lesbian pastor of a NYC church on the Bob Larson radio broadcast ,she finally stated that her Bible ignores the writtings of Paul & different parts of the old testament including proverbs.
I asked her when it comes to the Bible would she consider that she has a smorgensborg religion like a buffet a little of this a little of that ,oh, I definitely won’t accept that! She could not answer! God is so smart he can preserve HIS WORD throughout eternity God inspired to the prophets using the Jewish people & Catholic church to preserve God’s word including the 10 commandments not the 10 suggestions!
patricia winchild says
She may not have answered because she’d finally had enough of you ! Some people are worth our time and some are not. Once we hit the wall with someone and see clearly that they are impenetrable, we may close the “discussion” because we’re dealing with someone who’s been closed-minded for a very long time and has lots of practice, so it’s futile to keep trying to share different opinions. Nothing gets in. Why keep trying? That may be what happened here, not that god shut them down.
Kyle says
Wow, what a great comment. I’d never looked at it in that way before. I’d read about the Shinto view of sin before, but never thought of it in depth or seriously pondered it. Thanks for making this post.
Matt says
I wish all Christians would think about everything this way. Life is so complex and we are so quick to discern right and wrong, black and white, sin and righteousness, light and dark etc. as if we even have the time on Earth to try to grasp the answer to every issue. I hate saying I am a moderate Christian because it gives a sense of being “lukewarm” but I think what you say about erring to conservative or liberal is important. Rather than make a quick declaration on how God thinks of something we should take more time to think about God himself. His character, his being, etc. And yes, think of it in context of who he really is verses what our limited mind kind perceive. I have not attended church in years because it has become a place where fundamentalist speak in certainties and hand out tickets to hell. On the other end is are the liberals who speak in “I feel statements” and mold God into their own version of what they want him to be. If there was a church that’s mission was to Love God, Constantly pursue him with an open mind and heart, Love people, discuss openly, and debate freely… I’d be there in the first row.
Carl says
In answer scripture tells us two things
Sin is trangression of law whi h we are not under so legally we cannot use law no longer to define sin
Jesus defines it as sin indeed to not believe he is the son of God
And two sin is whatever is not of faith
Law is not of faith so its a sin to impsoe the kaw its called rebuilding law whixh is law breaking
As for us our weaknesses of being human and having sexuality we are commanded to fully hopw in grace a d repent of the former ignorance in us whixh was when in flesh isrealwas under law and the ignorance was trying to obetain a rightiousness as if by works of law athat we are dead to and so they are dead works we judge ourselves by when being justified we think we sinned against those commands but how much more shall the blood of christ cleans our conseicnes fron dead works? ( are those dead works not works of law ??? For sin is trangression of law)
But we have zero obligation to keeep law a d if anyobe tells us we do they are false teachers of law rebuilding the command of the law whixh scripture says is law breaking
Lawrence says
“Missing the mark” is a very good way to define sin in my mind. And if Jesus was truly compassionate in following God’s law, the way he treated sinners was a lot more like how one would treat one who ‘missed the mark’ and not one who committed some awful crime. Unfortunately too many so called Christians out there do not worship Jesus but worship Saul instead and like to spread the message of their Messiah (who they like to call Paul) and are ignorant of the Word of the One true Messiah or claim the Saul clarified His words. Like Jesus’s words needed to be clarified?! Hardly!!! Yet they claim to follow Jesus when in fact they follow the words of a Pharisee who persecuted Jesus and His followers and proceeded to co-opt the movement as his own and adulterate the Words of the one true Messiah with the hate filled word of his own heart. Saul warned of devils and Antichrists when he in fact is an Anti Christ. Yet the gullible eat up his corruption of the Jesus’s message hook line and sinker. I stop at the first hand accounts / Gospels of Jesus’s teachings. Anything that Saul touched is an insipid poison that pollutes the soul and turns the well meaning to hate. There is just enough of Jesus’s message of love in there and a few quotable nuggets of truth that pull the unsuspecting into his snare, but like a master manipulator and gaslighter, Saul is not to be trusted to interpret Jesus’s words; I will go directly to the source in the Gospels thank you very much!
Paul Swilley says
God abhors the sinner
Brian Cordova says
Especially the religious sinner.
Paul Swilley says
especially the gay or gay supporter sinner
Brian Cordova says
Or the spirit of the accuser.
Brian Cordova says
The good news is better than that.
Paul Swilley says
not for homosexuals
Brian Cordova says
God loves this homo (and you too)!
Paul Swilley says
sadly mistaken
Brian Cordova says
Yes you are, but you are forgiven.
Missy says
Love it, Brian Cordova!
Sam says
Ditto!
Sam says
Touche’, sinner!
Carl says
God justifies the wicked who do not work
We are dead to Works of law to live with the weaknesses that disabled us from keeping law to be free to delight in and thank God for our weaknesses under grace made rightious by believing in Jesus christ the son of God
Amen.
Grant Hawley says
Rom 5:7-8
Sam says
Does this have some meaning for you?
Traci Dodson Payne says
It like a back handed insult covered up by what is thought to be a compliment. I agree…don’t say it
Matthew Richardson says
The only ‘wrong’ or ‘harm’ I see in homosexuality, without getingbogged down in psychology, is that it goes against God’s plans for procreation. Does this mean we should hate them ? Of course not. Another excellent post J.D. 😉
Sam says
God can handle all the diversity, chaos and even deviation that come Her way. It’s what was created. Humanity is the only accuser that labels something wrong or harmful. God indeed planned for procreation but never to the exclusion of everything unlike it.
Robin Somers says
I read your article. Has it truly come to this? The great Deluder seems to be winning over the hearts and minds of his Beloved. Several points… there are indeed two classes of people in GOD’s eyes…those that are his and those that are not; the wicked and the Redeemed. He does call sin SIN and He does hate it. He does love the sinner and died for all. But only those who repent from their sin and believe that Jesus Christ has atoned for it and freed them from it are His Body, the Church. I understand your sentiments and desire to love the unlovely. I get that. And this is VERY real and personal to me and my family. But real love, agape love must hate all that is evil, corrupt and wrong, or it is not love. I love them myself VERY much. But if they, and all other PRACTICING sinners continue in their sin without remorse, repentance, etc., then I cannot be close to them, nor can God. And if left that way at the end of their lives, God will judge and condemn them for all eternity. THAT’S why we should hate it, expose it, plead with them to turn around…show them how WE turned around by the grace of God., giving them REAL hope of deliverance from the Evil One. I could give you MUCH Scripture to support everything I have posted. If you want me to I will. But I suspect you’re not looking for a discussion. Anyway, I had to say this as it is everywhere. I do love the sinner and I do hate the sin. Blessings, Robin
Jesse Ireland says
So Jesus was close to sinners ( he ate with them, went to their houses, hung out with them, and talked to them), but you are saying we can’t? That makes zero sense
Robin Somers says
I didn’t mean close in proximity, but in spirit, like being unequally yoked.
Jesse Ireland says
Okay. But I think we should follow the example of Jesus and enter into their stories and orient them to light, love, and freedom instead of condemning or judging them
Mike Goetz says
@Robin, I’m going to assume that you live in America and have a relatively comfortable standard of living. A friend of mine once showed me how we in the West benefit from the systematic inequality that exists in the world today. I think it’s some 95% of the world’s population that is poorer than even the American lower class.
Are we not practicing sin when we continue to live and benefit from this inequitable system that is not God’s ideal? If I really wanted to, I *could* sell everything and live in solidarity with the poor, to take an active step against the systems of the world. But frankly I don’t, because it’s too hard. I am actively sinning, refusing to walk the whole way of repentance.
In the end, we are all dependent on God’s mercy, and we are all practicing sinners because the world is cursed. We are all afflicted, we are all guilty. I have enough to contend with in my own sin, that I can’t bring myself to hate, condemn, or expose someone else’s sin.
Rene says
To the naysayers such as Paul Swilley and Robin Somers, I would say, take a little time to be patient, keep calm, close your eyes, place your hand on your heart and ask your conscience, “was I speaking out of real love or is it the deeply ingrained yet subtle hatred that is within me that had prompted me to have said what I said?” Even as you ask your conscience likewise, consider also that God is watching you intently as you question your conscience so that you do not lie to yourself. If you truly listened to your conscience, you will change your opinion on what you said. I’m sorry to say that the Spirit of Love did not shine through your words and into the heart of the reader of your opinion. Instead what shown through was pride, hatred and the ‘I am righteous ‘ and the ‘I am better than you attitude.’ I’m sure many would agree with me on that. Jeremy, God bless you.
Sam says
Thank God I don’t believe in YOUR GOD and your notion of LOVE! {{{SHUDDER!!!}}} Yet, you are still loved and forgiven. That’s what’s it’s all about!
Anna says
I’m seeing judgement on this side *and* the other side. “Thank God I’m not like you” vs. “I love the sinner, but I’ll drop them if I think they aren’t changing fast enough.” Then there’s *my* judgement, which is not fully formed…
We all must make judgements in order to choose our way. Hopefully when the feelings die down, none of us will be too proud to change a little. Paul admitted we must make *some* judgements, but they are to be mainly of our own faults and for “our own.” He did say,”What business is it of mine to judge the world?” He was very different about laying down behavior for the church, however.
mark says
The problem is that “your” god is not the Heavenly Father.
Alan gagg says
Excellent!if people would read all of God’s word &accept Jesus as their Lord & Savior I believe they will come to the same conclusion! People are going to hell everyday! & They do not have to! God is love agape unconditional love but He also is faithful & true! He destroyed the entire world for a reason ! Wiped out a tribe of Israel & all their possessions religion is man’s attempt to bring God down to our level! Faith is trusting God seeking His will to be done in our lives!
Ben Cooper says
Jeremy, Those who make light of the sins of sexual confusion and perversion are clearly not seeing the bigger picture of God’s created order.
If it wasn’t for God giving to me my dear unbelieving wife I wouldn’t hardly know what agape (love) was at all! It is only because I have chosen to serve a person who is inherently my opposite, but also my equal, that I even begin to comprehend what God himself has done for me. People who have given into the temptation to share intimacy only with those who are like them rob themselves of the very transformation we were placed on this planet to undergo. Much like grace, love is to be given freely, but it is not cheep! Homosexuality, like all other perversions, exchanges an eternal spiritual blessings for a temporal pleasure. Hardly something to be treated lightly!
Jesse Ireland says
What about all the other sins the church just glosses over like divorce and gluttony? If we are going to call out one sin we should be fair and call out others as well, but we don’t. It is brutally inconsistent
k Englehart says
Some churches do overlook sins like homosexuality, fornication and divorce! Those are the ones living for the world and ignoring God’s Word! But many are judged and condemned by ppl that claim homosexuality is the only sin judged in the church… and that is not true! Divorce is in the NT as it talks about one being free when there is infidelity by the spouse! There are those that were not Christians, sinning without care, with many divorces and marriages! These ppl are forgiven when they repent, confess Jesus is the Son of God, baptized and want to be a Christian! Same for the prostitute, the murderer, thief, liar and all the sins mentioned in the NT. All can be forgiven if they repent! God knows our heart and if we’re sincere or just going through the motion to keep doing the same sins over and over again! My job requires me to do a lot of traveling and I’ve been associated with many churches! I have never been to one that ignores those committing adultery or any sin! I also know that every church I’ve been to is full of sinners! Church is for sinners…like a hospital is for the sick. It is there for us to be there for one another…to help us fight our demons which vary within each one of us! Satan wants the church to go away…no more gathering as the Father has requested for us to do in the NT. Satan knows we’re stronger when we’re in a group….as all groups of ppl are! Lead us to believe we can make it on our own is to break us up…weaken us…and destroy what God put in place! All churches are not the same….important to go with the one that follows the NT…follow God’s Word!
Robin Somers says
I agree Jesse. When I was a young Christian I heard frequent sermons against divorce, fornication, etc. Although, never gluttony! But this is very true.
Brian Cordova says
Yet I have known many same-sex marriages which they share the same bond as you, yet once upon a time, such relationships where without legal protection whatsoever. They were kept apart from their partners in hospital situations, funeral arrangements and more than once, I would see the surviving partner left without a home when the late partners family took their home from him.
Ben Cooper says
On the issue of the “church” treating homosexuality different than other sins” I would say that this is a straw man argument. First of all, I don’t know any devout Christians who excuse gluttony or divorce or any other sin any more than homosexuality. On the contrary, I have seen absolutely nothing but mercy and grace and tender kindness shown by christians towards people who are homosexuals. It is the world, outside the church, that make snide and rude remarks.
Sam says
“I have seen absolutely nothing but mercy and grace and tender kindness shown by christians towards people who are homosexuals. It is the world, outside the church, that make snide and rude remarks.”
We wish that were true here. Maybe it varies church to church or denomination to denomination or even by where you live. Yes, there are many Christians who do show mercy, grace and kindness to LGBTQ individuals. However, we have seen and heard many who have behaved quite the opposite and our LGBTQ friends have told us this is very common.
Ben Cooper says
But we do treat homosexuality seriously because it is serious! Unlike many other sins, it is condoned by our culture, and is treated as actually healthy! If we, the people who represents Jesus ethic, don’t speak the truth in love, who will?
James says
Hi, first time posting. One thing that no one has mentioned yet is the fact of why sin is a problem to God. It is because of God’s holiness, it is because of the very nature of our unchangeable God. He is so holy that sin cannot be in His presence. That is why Jesus had to die on the Cross, because there was nothing we could do to fix the problem. Sin separates us from God because He is holy and we are not. Second, if you examine how Jesus treated sinners, let’s use the woman who was an adulteress and was about to be stoned (John 8). He basically stopped everyone and drove them away and told the woman that He did not condemn her, but then He said: John 8:11 NASB
She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.” Jesus died for our sin, he set us free from the guilt and bondage of sin, John says of someone who is still in sin…1 John 2:4 NASB
The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;” sin is a big deal for God because it is a barrier between us and God, but Jesus dealt with that to set us free and have a relationship with Him and our Father, but if we put ourselves back into a life of sin, that will eventually separate us from God and we are basically saying that the death of Jesus did not set us free. We are told to be holy because God is holy.
Sam says
Indeed, God and Jesus had no problem with sinners, yet self-proclaimed Christians can never let SIN go. Who’s your daddy? . . . SATAN?
Sam says
I’m sorry . . . . the last glass of Merlot kicked in and my druthers druth not any longer.
Carl says
Does bobody here understand that we ourselves are sinners in our own selves and only God dealt with sins firever?.
He made us rightious by faith in christ who took away the debt of failing the commands of law and smeared away the commands to do the law so we are dead to law abd so dead to sin and now under grace free to delight in our weaknesses? And even thank God for the weaknesses which are not sin for sin is trangression of law but where there is no law there is no trangression and seeing jesus abolished those commabds in his own flesh then there is no law abd no sin
But sin is whatever is not of faith so you jusge yourselves by law but why you dead to those things christ ended them once in death
By the way thats true translation of that passage
So on the basus of what now ashaned?
Its gone there us no law command shaming you accusing you aynmore
Ben Cooper says
Christianity is not about what is fair. It is about what is righteous, as spelled out crystal clear by Jesus. If you think the waters of righteousness have been muddy by hipocracy, of christians than please do point it out! Unlike the world we will repent and strive for a higher standard. I honestly do believe that homosexuality is a grave sin though, and I will continue to LOVE the sinner and hate the sin. Just as Jesus does! (See Rev. 2:6).
Sam says
Please…JESUS WAS NEVER CLEAR! 4GOODreason! Wrestle, brother!!!
Carl says
So very clear when talking to those Under law
Jesse Ireland says
The problem is that phrase isn’t even In the Bible and it is not how Jesus operated. Take for example the woman brought to Him that was caught in adultery. The first thing He does was to tell those that brought her to Him that let him who has no sin throw the first stone. Oh oh, they were in trouble because they knew they all had sin. What does this do? It restores the woman and allows her to see that she is loved by the King. Notice that Jesus doesn’t say a word about sin yet. Now after everyone has left, Jesus is the only possible one that could condemn her, but He does not. Now at the very end He tells her to go sin no more, but that is just the woman living out her identity as being loved and cherished by Abba. You see we do it all backwards. Let’s follow Jesus and learn people’s stories and orient them towards light, love, and freedom.
Sam says
Grace!
Ben Cooper says
Neither does Jesus use the exact word “homosexuality” to condemn all forms of fornication and adultery in Matthew 19, but anyone looking at that passage with an open mind and heart can’t help but realize that homosexuality is indeed addressed by Him there. So when Jesus does actually say that He hates certain sins, but then also loves the whole world, it is not too difficult to deduce such a comment as “Love the sinner, hate the sin”. J Vernon Magee tells a beautiful story about a Man who hands his son over to a another Man who impales his son, turns his insides out, and pulls large portions out of his gut. At first the story sounds like a horror movie! Until you learn that the boy has a terminal cancer and the growth inside Him is a cancer that must be removed if he is to survive. By handing the boy over to the doctor, to cut him open, and pull out his inners, he is doing the most loving thing possible. I think the most loving thing we can say to someone who is trapped in any lifestyle of sin is “God can take that from you, and heal you, and make you truly whole. It won’t be easy, or free of pain, but He will do it! For it is the only way to gain eternal spiritual life.”
James says
Hi, I agree with you. Which is the more loving… To not say anything to a non Christian about sin in their life that separates them from God and salvation because we don’t want to offend them and let them go to eternal damnation, or show them that are a sinner deserving of hell, but that Jesus loves them and that He died in their place to give them true life and bring them into eternal salvation? I know which I would rather have. I was rescued from the streets of Kings Cross in Sydney by God who showed me a better way, He rescued me from a life of sin to holy life that is found in Christ through His Spirit. I may not always get it right, but I want to live a life that is pleasing to God, I want to obey God and He gives us His Spirit who enables us to live a life that is marked by holiness, not by justifications and excuses for the sin in our life that we don’t want to change because we like it. Scripture tells us that we are to grow in our faith to be more like Jesus everyday, and Jesus did not sin, at all.
Lutek K. says
One thing needs to be made very clear.
Jesus did not die to pay for our sins. (What an arrogant and self-serving theological concept that is!) There is no magic that can save us from the true consequences of our selfish, ugly, hateful lies. The only magic is in the one effective way of redeeming ourselves, and that is by emulating Jesus, not deifying him.
Part of that is in fully owning what you’ve done. The other part is in making appropriate amends. No one else, not even Jesus, can do that for you.
Jesus died to preserve Truth and Love, and the Beauty that springs out of their union. That’s all, and that’s enough.
Jesus died to preserve the Christ.
Truth. Beauty. Love. A truly holy trinity. It’s as simple as that. No other reasons could ever be worth sacrificing one’s own life. Nor could there ever be a greater reason to.
Sam says
Jesus did not die in our place but DIED BECUASE OF US, YOU, ME and EVERY OTHER SELF-RIGHTEOUS FOOL that ever lived.
Sam says
That is some sick and twisted theology, Ben…spare your grotesque details. . . . PLEASE! It;’s no wonder you are quite distorted in your view of our loving and merciful Father, Mother and Loving God, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
Brian Cordova says
The problem seems to be many in the church taking a few isolated scriptures and placing a blanket condemnation on a whole group of people due to their interpretation of scripture and lack of real love for these same people. I have personally witnessed much less than kindness toward persons like myself who are of the homosexual orientation by many well meaning (and not so well meaning) persons of faith, and the results have been disastrous. This is an area in which true communication is needed and condemnation and condescension must cease.
I could also choose to hate the sin of homophobia, while loving the homophobe, yet all that this accomplishes is disunity in the Body of Christ. Perhaps if we were to go back to Augustine’s real meaning in this message of hating the systemic sin of humanity and not picking and choosing the “sin” we hate, we may move forward beyond all of the human bigotry and fulfill the two greatest commandments.
Sam says
AMEN to that!
Kyle says
That’s been my experience and reasoning as well, though replace the prefix with “bi-.” One could at least stop cherry picking sins and the sinners in question and just decide to become an equal opportunity bigot, hating the whole of the human race because of the systemic and systematic sin and evil of humanity. That’s the route I ended up taking.
Brian Cordova says
Sadly, this is the kind of “witnesses” shown to many within the LGBT community. I cannot see Jesus here, but only the accuser. This is but one reason why many in the LGBT community don’t respond to the good good news as this is the face that has been placed upon it.
Paul Swilley says
LGBT community dont respond to the Gospel becuse they lust after their sin too much
Paul Swilley says
it is not the gluttons forcing christian bakeries to do perverted weddings
Lutek K. says
Now that you mention it, it is the gluttons, hoarding, over-consuming and depleting the resources of the planet which God gave us to live on and care for, and turning it into an unlivable wasteland, just so that they can live in luxury while most of their brothers and sisters around the world suffer in misery, because any sins they themselves may have but are unaware of are forgiven by their savior who loves them more than anyone else and will soon come down out of the sky to save them from themselves and the mess they’ve made and to throw everyone else into hell.
I strongly suggest that rather than wasting time criticizing other people’s relationships we get down to the critical task of overcoming our own gluttony.
Brian Cordova says
Weeding?
Brian Cordova says
Who taught you this hate, Paul?
Paul Swilley says
it is called standing for the gospel it onlycomes across as hate toyou because homosexuality is your pet sin i pray that God really does set you free from this so that you can really know him Brian Cordova
Sam says
Total SWILL!!!
Brian Cordova says
I do know him. And what you are preaching is not the gospel. There is no good news in any of your messages.
And I pray that you are released from your religious prison of hate, as well as your pet sin of condemnation, my brother Paul.
Sam says
You are a far more gracious man than I, Brian. I commend you!
Paul Swilley says
no hate on mypart
Sam says
Total HATE!
Brian Cordova says
Then your “love” is purdy stanky.
Paul Swilley says
no hate i am just telling the truth brian cordova
Rene says
To the naysayers such as Paul Swilley and Robin Somers, I would say, take a little time to be patient, keep calm, close your eyes, place your hand on your heart and ask your conscience, “was I speaking out of real love or is it the deeply ingrained yet subtle hatred that is within me that had prompted me to have said what I said?” Even as you ask your conscience likewise, consider also that God is watching you intently as you question your conscience so that you do not lie to yourself. If you truly listened to your conscience, you will change your opinion on what you said. I’m sorry to say that the Spirit of Love did not shine through your words and into the heart of the reader of your opinion. Instead what shown through was pride, hatred and the ‘I am righteous ‘ and the ‘I am better than you attitude.’ I’m sure many would agree with me on that. There are two ways of speaking the truth, one with a condemning voice and the other with the voice of conviction that DRAWS. Whether one speaks the truth or not, the spirit of condemnation is of the devil.
Sam says
The accuser is always SATAN!
Brian Cordova says
Truth can be tricky when viewed through the clouded lens of tradition. We still see things “through a glass darkly”.
Paul Swilley says
you are blind
Brian Cordova says
You are loved.
Brian Cordova says
https://davebarnhart.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/how-being-a-pastor-changed-my-thinking-on-homosexuality/
Brian Cordova says
I have hope for you.
Jem says
To be gay and live as a straight person is a perversion. To be straight and live as a gay would be a perversion. To be gay and live as a gay, just as being straight and living straight, is being true to who you are and no perversion at all.
Sam says
Preach it!
Sam says
Ben, perhaps remaining gay would have been a good thing for you! It’s sad when your sex becomes perverted and confusing… I will indeed pray for your healing and wholeness.
Ben Cooper says
I am praying you will gain a little more clarity on this issue Jeremy.
Brian Cordova says
As I pray for you, Ben.
Ben Cooper says
The image of Christ is mirrored in us when we actually submit to Him, not when we pursue a righteousness of our own making. (See Matthew 7:15-23).
Brian Cordova says
Amen, brother.
Sam Riviera says
Drop the word “apparently” from the last paragraph and this will be one of your best posts ever.
I never, ever met anyone who thought that people who think and say “love the sinner and hate the sin” really love them. Everyone, e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e, thinks this is some sort of Christianese for “I think you are disgusting and therefore God should throw you into hell forever.”
This does not work. The “sinners” who have been found out by these self-appointed “sin inspectors” do not believe the “sin inspector” loves them. Not at all. No way. That approach is totally wrong-headed when used with anyone. That way of thinking does not draw anyone to Jesus.
Anna says
That’s because it is a tired cliché. When people truly care, they don’t tend to use worn out phrases, and they show love in their actions (but that doesn’t mean they approve one sin over another, which is besides the point). I think people tend to “feel” hypocrisy is near when the language sounds trite. Some church people burned me when my husband was dying, but others were consistantly helpful. The truth will come out in our actions.
J Marshall Jenkins says
I agree so much. That phrase has been used too often to justify the speaker’s own sin. You’re right. Keep it simple. Love.
Sam says
LOVE!!!!
Dwight Hunt says
Jeremy I was thinking about Jesus parable of the the Pharisee and the tax collector when I read your article 🙂
Lutek K. says
Love the post. love the author.
That one picture looks kinda like a crop circle. Cool! Must have been made by an alien.
Randy Liston says
I seem to recall that the Pharisees referred to anyone who didn’t act like they did as “sinners.” In their self-righteousness they saw themselves above “sinner’s” and therefore, believed they had the right to judge others. There is no love or grace in judging or labeling others. This is what they were chastised by Christ for: judging and not loving. The opposite of loving others is judging them. The opposite of extending grace is extending condemnation. I don’t remember Jesus saying, “A new commandment I give to you. Judge one another.” We are commanded to love one another, not judge, label, or condemn. Even in dealing with the woman caught in adultery, He did not judge or condemn her sin. His final words to her “Go and sin no more”, were not because He judged her but, because He knew what the consequences of those continued actions would do to her. If God does not see one sin above any other why do so many Christians think it is their jobs to do so.
David Backus says
I have no problem with the phrase. There is nothing wrong with loving sinners. When I was a sinner, I needed to be loved. And if we are to survive and be healthy as human beings, we need to hate sin. Why? Because sin is terribly destructive. It’s like hating cancer or AIDS>
Brian Cordova says
Yet when Augustine first uttered these words, he was referring to the systematic sin of humanity, and not using it as an excuse to point fingers at a whole group of people and promote a blanket condemnation. All that we hate has already been overcome at the cross.
David Backus says
I don’t think in terms of groups of people and hate. I see people as individuals and in my mind their identities are separated from their sins.
Cody Morris says
When you were a sinner? So have you stopped sinning completely? Please tell me how you have been able to this! I was under the impression that only Jesus was sin free.
tovlogos says
Thanks Jeremy — Yet I really disagree with you here. Even if we remove that anecdote from
our consciousness, the biblical principles remain the same, like a rock.
There are differences among among sinners — there is the one who “practices sin;” and there is the one who “hates” his propensity to sin, as in Romans 7:14-25 — expressing the frustration that we can will what is right, but cannot do it. However, “Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving
the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.”
This is the reality in a cursed world; however, here Paul makes it clear that there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. The only way to show our love for God is through obedience to His will, as in John 14:23-24 — not through anything else.
One of the things that constitutes obedience is in 1Corinthians 6:10, 11.
You say, “forget homosexuality, let’s look at gluttony” — however, no one in Sodom went to God and demanded that He come out and become obese. I never met a person struggling with obesity who called it is “good,” or natural, (or suggested we make a special day to celebrate it as the president suggested) as homosexuals do. The president insisted more than once, that if a parent has a young child who is experiencing some sort of gender confusion, and it happens to be a boy, for example, they should not tell him he was born a male and should embrace that reality. Let him go with his feeling — Is that the advice Jesus would give him? Obviously not. Instead Jesus would say:
“And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:11) He would not say anything remotely characteristic of what you are saying.
This is the second time I have heard you take an apologetic posture toward homosexuality. You appear to be blurring the line between biblical sin, referred to as an abomination; and blending it with all stumbling.
Yet the biblical position about “practicing sin,” 1 John 3:8,9, is unmistakable — “practicing sin is of the devil.” Romans 1:28 condemns deliberate sin to reprobacy. Why? because they are not interested in any attempt to turn from it.
God authorized killing within certain parameters, but He never authorized murder. God authorized heterosexual intimacy, but only through the sanctity of marriage; so that fornication can be fixed through Marriage. There is no authorization of homosexuality by God under any circumstances, whatsoever, it can never be fixed. Therefore how can, as you reference suggested, refer to Matthew Vine as a good Christian, unless you redefine the meaning of Christian?
Yes Jesus died for the redemption of all humans; and God would have it that none should perish — sure, that’s God’s ideal; however, many will perish, for sure.
In Jesus,
Mark
Sam says
Clearly, you are not even in Christ’s ballpark.
Anna says
“Clearly, you are not even in Christ’s ballpark.” ?
Is that not judgement and taking the stand that someone who disagrees with you does not “really” belong to Christ? Do we “own” Christ’s ballpark? I cannot agree that hatred is the exclusive domain of conservative Christians when I see liberals bashing traditionals. Then there’s lots of sarcasm…
I’m *not* exactly “conservative” (I don’t believe a “young earth” is Biblical and I’m for gun control), but some of the more conservative brethren have points too.
Brian Cordova says
Love covers a multitude of sins (and beats the self-righteous hell out of “hate the sin”).
Ben Cooper says
Brian, you need to be a little more careful about quoting the Scriptures. If you read the context of Peter’s message in 1 Peter 4 you would see that he exhorts believer to “cease from sins”, and to “no longer be carried away by lusts of the flesh” that they may live in the Spirit according to the will of God.” Love does not ignore sin, it draws us into a new life where that sin is eradicated.
Sam says
Ben…at this point it is clear that LUST will only serve to save you from your self-righteous self-hate.
Brian Cordova says
Many need to be more careful about quoting the scriptures, my brother. Certainly, the “lusts of the flesh” of which you speak do include a form of religious superiority and haughtiness that do no favor to those looked down upon(believe it or not, it is not all about sex). This is one reason why Jesus had to rebuke many of the religious traditionalists of his day.
Love also does not seek to point out sin in it’s brother and certainly, not to cast a blanket of condemnation over a people of which the perceiver does not understand.
Brian Cordova says
Would you agree that this gentleman also needs be careful how he quotes scripture?
Sam says
Totally!!!
Lutek K. says
Hate your own sin. Anyone else’s is not your business unless they’re threatening you, in which case hatred is the worst response – or unless they’re your children, in which case their sin probably began as yours anyway.
Boyd Farar says
Exactly, Brian. It’s patronizing as hell
Andrew Combe says
Speaking as a Barrister and Christian I can honestly say the worst evil I have ever seen outside war zones was that committed in the heterosexual family unit – incest, child abuse, spousal abuse (mental and physical) and drug use.
I’ve met the fathers who held lit cigarettes against their own children’s skin. I’ve cross examined the 6’3″ male who beat his 5’2″ wife and locked her in a dog box. Literally locked her in a dog box. I’ve looked at the youths who raped their younger siblings while Mum and Dad watched TV. I’ve sat in court and looked at the men who murdered their wives. I’ve looked the Devil in the eye as he walked through the metal detectors prior to asking for sole custody of his kids even though he was a violent criminal.
Where is the sanctity of marriage in this? You think because you are heterosexual you are automatically a better person? Heterosexuality is no ticket to sanctity. News flash: more murders occur within the heterosexual family unit than ANY OTHER ENVIRONMENT.
I was opposed to gay marriage and homosexuality until I actually met homosexual men and women and realised they were good people who just wanted to get on with their lives. Some of them love God and go to church. They pay taxes, look after their Mothers and would never hurt anyone.
After those life experiences, I leave damnation up to God now. I’m busy enough dealing with the evil we humans do to each other while we are alive.
When it all turns to shit and I wonder what I am to do as a Christian I re-read Matthew 22.35-40 and see that when Christ was challenged as to the most important commandment he named two. He said the first is to love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind and all your soul. The second is like it and it is to love your neighbour as you love yourself. On these two commandments hang all the laws and the prophets.
Nothing was said by my saviour about hate.
If I am condoning sin by accepting my gay and lesbian friends for who they are and not being mortally offended by the fact they love people of the same gender, then I’ll ask for forgiveness.
In the meantime, I’m sorry, but I’ve got much nastier stuff on my plate to deal with.
Brian Cordova says
Thank you. Nothing good has ever come out of a blanket condemnation of a whole group of people.
Paul Swilley says
like sodom and gomorrha
Sam says
Yes…raping God’s angels is never a wise thing to do.
Brian Cordova says
S&G were not destroyed (even in the biblical myth) due to loving, same-sex relationships. It’s main sin was inhospitality.
Andrew Combe says
So far since the Supreme Court decision, volcanoes have not erupted under NYC, Chicago, San Fransisco or Los Angeles. Women have not been turned into pillars of salt. I notice as well that meteors have not struck Washington DC while none of the Supreme Court Justices have been struck down with pestilence and plague.
And the Republic still stands.
Despite all this non smiting, Westboro Church fanatics still carry offensive signs and picket the funerals of deceased service personnel, police officers and others who have the courage to serve their country and community and who have made the ultimate sacrifice to uphold freedom and Liberty.
If anyone deserves to be turned into a pillar of salt I think I know who it is.
Charles Adiukwu says
The fact that someone in sin is good does not in anyway change the sin. Every sexual or non sexual sin is sin and the only solution to any and every sin is repentance and forsaking the sin by the love of God in and through Christ. No good person will be right before God. The knowledge of good and evil does not save anyone.
Laurence Lilley says
Do you know that Paul – he wrote a lot of Bible quotes – he said that there is no sin in itself, but if you think it is sin – to you it is sin. Lay off the “sinners” – they’re not your problem. Sin has been dealt with,
Paul Swilley says
that is not something Paul said that is what is known as post modernism
Matt Stone says
What if we’re talking about pedophilia?
Brian Cordova says
Good question. As one who loves (and is very protective of) children, I know what our first response generally is. Yet I can’t help but wonder if God’s response is different, perhaps even loving the abuser and one being abused equally?
Brian Cordova says
Definitely, we would do all that we can to get the child out of the situation, yet how do we love the abuser?
Lutek K. says
Children are a sacred trust of society and must be protected. Pedophiliacs need to be stopped. But, as with any other person we judge, we must ask ourselves, is their sin any deadlier, spiritually, than our own? The answer is always “No.”
That’s the whole point.
Matt Stone says
Given the OP though, I thinking, isn’t it reasonable to hate the child abuse even when you bring yourself to love the child abuser?
Lutek K. says
Yes, it is possible and reasonable to hate child abuse, even while loving the abuser. But it is not possible to love the abuser while thinking of that person as a sinner, because by doing so you’re implying that you’re not a sinner – which is nonsense.
Brian Cordova says
Yes, but we also have a tendency to hate the child abuser.
Brian Cordova says
And we must be careful in comparing pedophilia to homosexuality.
Matt Stone says
I’m not comparing them at all. Im just following through the broad brush stroke OP to its logical conclusion.
Jeremy Myers says
Matt, I did actually briefly mention child abuse and incest in the longer post, and basically said that if we really want to “hate the sin” then let’s focus on hating the sin that actually hurts people.
Even still, I hold to this truth: “To know all is to forgive all.”
Sam says
Amen to that!
Matt Stone says
Yes, well I can agree with that
Stephen Cornell says
Okay, let’s move on to discuss Love! Has not the pornographic culture in America and Europe attempted to seperate Love from Sex and Marriage? Was not the Love of God reflected in the very harsh death of Yahshua on this planet? Does God not love this planet and the people on it BUT not the Cosmos (meaning the socio-political cultures we build on the planet) which God condemns and Satan tempted Yahshua with but which Yahshua rejected by speaking the Father’s words back in response? What is Love? That is the real question…
Simo Jones says
Terri Israel Simon I’ve seen it before, really like that Mark Lowry quote. Article; very loving perspective. ;-*
Charles Adiukwu says
Any gospel that avoids the mention of sin is not the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Any gospel that does not stay and stay with repentance from sin cannot lead to the kingdom of heaven. What should anyone repent of, if you don’t mention sin? Which gospel message of Jesus and His apostles and His disciples stopped at love without mentioning sin or the consequences of it?
Brian Cordova says
“Sinners in the hands of a pissed off God?
Brian Cordova says
Or perhaps, we could deal with the systemic sin of the world rather than scapegoating our own sins upon another, while we study the message closely (minus the proof-texting) in order to recognize that all sin has been overcome at Calvary?
Nah, building ourselves up by looking down on others is much more fun
Charles Adiukwu says
He is definitely a loving and merciful God, but He is also the Almighty God, the Judge of the whole earth. He loves us so much that He doesn’t want anyone to perish so He sent His Son Jesus so that we do not perish as long as we don’t remain in our sins. It’s that simple. While we have His breath on earth, we examine ourselves if indeed we have His Holy Spirit in us, to abandon everything that is sinful, by His Spirit and grace. We don’t take His grace for granted and continue in any sin, for His Word says clearly that we can frustrate and insult His Spirit of grace by wilfully sinning.
Hebrews10.26-31 “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
He is merciful, but if we reject Him or deny Him by wilfully, knowingly, recklessly continuing in any form of sin, we have denied Him and will be accountable to Him on the last day whether we believe it or not.
Titus 1.16 -They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.”
Sin is so deceitful that it can make us think we know God yet we have denied Him without even knowing it.
Hebrews 3.12-14 makes this so clear to believers in Christ – “Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,” Hebrews 3:12-14
It is too risky to gamble with sin – we are dealing with God and He is not man.
Hebrews.6.4-6 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”
Revelation 22.11-14 “He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.”
God bless you.
Brian Cordova says
Yep, “sinners in the hands of a pissed off god”.
Very good proof-texting, however. An excellent example of neo-Calvanism at it’s best.
Blessings, brother. May you know the God of peace.
Charles Adiukwu says
His word is clear and His Spirit bears us witness in our hearts in our quiet moments and we know that we would face Him all alone on that last moment or day for us, (which can be anytime) so it makes sense to take stock at every moment whatever text proofing we use or not for we would not say to Him that He didn’t send His message to us in that day. We would even not say we believed wrongly because if we are truly seeking Him, He will always make us stop and ponder out of the abundance of His love and mercy. He is a good God.
Brian Cordova says
Yes, He is a good God. It is in these quiet moments that I have come to know of the Perfect Love that indeed, passes and undoes all of the religious arguments of “if you died tonight…?” and simply says “Peace unto you”. In this, there is no “loving the sinner, hating the sin”, just simply the knowing of the love that has overcome all sin☺.
Brian Cordova says
We can certainly talk about sin (missing the mark) as we all do while in this world, yet must we come to recognize that sin no longer had power over us, nor any eternal consequence on our being as all sin and death were overcome at Calvary.
Charles Adiukwu says
May God continue to bless, guide and protect you and all of us and show His way, truth and life.
Brian Cordova says
Amen, brother. Agape love covers the world.
Jon says
Yes, Christians are sinner too, but the idea that we should accept any sin as long as it’s not illegal or harming someone is 100% unbiblical.
And the section below is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read. In every case you’re talking about two completely different things. Pride and healthy self esteem are two different things. Being lazy and relaxing after work are two completely different things! Etc… This is totally and completely illogical.
“Lots of these “favorite sins” in Christians circles are even “Pulpit approved.” That is, pastors and churches leaders raise up these “sins” as virtues to be acquired.
The sin of pride is called “healthy self-esteem.”
The sin of gluttony is called “Respecting the wife’s cooking.”
The sin of laziness is called “relaxing after work.”
The sin of greed is calling “planning for the future.”
The sin of national idolatry is called “patriotism.”
The sin of hate is called “warning them of the fires of hell.”
The sin of anger is called “standing up for what I believe.””
Pastor J Hubbard says
The only sin is ‘aiming for any goal without seeing how it fits into the kingdom of God.’ Maybe ‘one’s own happiness’ fits into the Kingdom, but seeking The Happiness takes your focus off The Kingdom.
Jeff Summers says
We live in a post-modern time when people define words to their own advantage. If you’re going to use a generic word like love, you’re going to have to qualify it so people will know what you mean.
Ruben GoOff Goff says
Jeff you’re right. “I love my car…I love my shoes…I love Canada”…just some examples of what you’re saying: yes.
Ben Cooper says
Charles Adiukwu, How refreshing to read a voice of reason, who actually knows and respects and promotes the truth! And praise God that his Word remains unchanged, just as He is. “The same yesterday today and forever.”
Ruben GoOff Goff says
I’ve been hearing this term since I was a kid! Finally, someone else is able to see it’s flaw.
Jane Johnson says
Hate the sin, love the sinner is a quote by Mahatma Ghandi! It’s not a Christian belief!
Charles Adiukwu says
The story of the love of Jesus that warns against sin is told in these encounters:
“Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear. So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:3-11)
“Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.” (John 5:14 )
The love of Jesus by Jesus warns against sin!
Who truly benefits at the end of the day when we ignore warning ourselves and other people about sin?
God does not want anyone to perish and has been warning His creation about sin from Genesis to Revelation.
Lutek K. says
Love is never a sin. Lust is always a sin.
That’s true always and everywhere, for everyone; gay or straight, married or not.
Pride is a sin. It’s the one that leads us to presume that we’re in a position to judge people as if we had the divine power to know what’s really in their hearts. It’s the one that leads us to think that we’re so good and perfect that it’s only everyone else that needs to change.
John Henson says
My experience is that people who use that form of words do not actually love the sinner very much either. They also assume that it is the other person who is the sinner rather than themselves.
John Henson says
The sin highlighted in the quoted parable was the sin of self-righteousness. Unlike the Pharisees Jesus refuses to judge. ‘Neither do I condemn you. ‘ Jesus’s reaction to sin is not to condemn but to forgive – and to understand. Where was the man involved? This woman had not acted alone. What pressures had she been put under? So may be that in the case of the woman whom he sends away in peace, the sin of which she has to beware is that of the unforgiving and self-righteous Pharisees. She must learn to understand THEM , she must forgive them for their rough treatment of her. Otherwise she will be as bad as they are. “Go and sin no more.”
Charles Adiukwu says
Go and sin no more means go and sin no more including the sexual sin of adultery that she was involved in John 8:4-11. The same charge was given to the man by the pool in Bethesda in John 5:14 -to sin no more. His sin was not mentioned and didn’t need to be, because every sin is grievous to God. Sin no more is not complicated. It simply means go and obey God, stop disobeying Him.
Charles Adiukwu says
“And Jesus opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” Luke 24:45-47
Lord, please open our understanding to get your true message of repentance and remission of sins and to make this known to all others for we have no control over the time left for each of us. ……
Angie Bachman says
Um let’s see…, Love is blind? Just deny what you see? Watch someone walk off the cliff and die in sin? Won’t their blood be on my hands if I just love them, turn my head and let them be?
Love, speaks truth and points to the path that brings Hope and Life.
Jeremy Myers says
Angie, I didn’t read anybody here saying that love is blind or that we should deny what we see. What we are encouraging, however, is for believers to look to their own sin before judging and condemning others.
The sin of pride, for example, is rampant in Christianity, and according to Scripture, is much more serious of a sin than some of the others many Christians like to condemn in other people.
Angie Bachman says
Then I would hope that someone would point out that I have a pride issue, rather than let me remain in it. That’s love. Don’t pet me in my sin. Point me to deliverance.
Angie Bachman says
The statement above, points out Love and strikes out the issues as if to turn a blind eye.
Charles Adiukwu says
The passion to avoid mentioning sin is as dangerous as the love of sin.
David Backus says
The sin is dealt with at the cross. The “speck and log” thing is fulfilled. As Christians we come to the cross and acknowledge our own sin. That’s the first step in becoming a Christian. After the sin is dealt with we most certainly rebuke, correct, and instruct. There IS a way to say “HEY! What you are doing is SIN! It is against God and it’s hurting you and the rest of society! Stop that!” without being a jerk about it. These days, people are SO emotionally butt hurt that even a kind reminder telling people to repent is considered an offense. HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN! There I said it. And I am not a hateful condemning jerk about it. People need to get over their oh so fragile butt hurts, put on their big girl panties, lace up them boots and get on the horse! SHEESH!
Angie Bachman says
Yes, it ALL was dealt with at the Cross. Do we keep on sinning because of it? No….
David “Ransom” man, you crack me up.
David Backus says
Of course not. My point is that the liberal take on the Bible is used to try to keep Christians from EVER preaching against sin. The mentality is that as long as I sin in any area, I can’t EVER call out sin for what it is. If that were the case no one alive has the right to preach the gospel. What gives us the right to preach the gospel, preach repentance, and rebuke sin, is that we HAVE settled the sin at the cross and now we are free to go about doing the kingdom work.
Charles Adiukwu says
Two phrases that are like ‘clichés’ these days and used regularly are half-truths and can be misleading. These are ‘sin is missing the mark’ and ‘sin has been dealt with at the cross’.
Sin is not just missing the mark, sin is simply put -disobedience to God and it leads to unrighteousness.
“What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?” Romans 6:15-16
Anyone, including those who have believed, who practices sin without repenting and turning away from any and all sin will not spend eternity with God, even if they think they are okay till the end. The finished work of Christ (the Cross) is finished by Christ and should never be a license to continue in sin. (Hebrews 6:4-6, 10:22-29, 1 John 2:3-6). Whoever wilfully continues in unrepentant sinful lifestyle, the finished sacrifice of Jesus has no benefit for them.
“For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,..’Hebrews 10:26
“And then they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the Son of God and exposing him to public shame.” Hebrews 6:6
The deceitfulness of sin (Heb. 3:12-13) makes one abandon their faith without even knowing they have done that -thinking they are still saved while sinning unrepentantly – hence they are never again able to come to repentance. The Cross is never to be taken for granted! Sin makes one to do that!
That is why Jesus warned us, His followers, repeatedly about sin and deceiving ourselves to the point of arguing with Him on the last day. He makes this clear in Matthew 7:20-23, Luke 13:23-28, Matthew 10:22, 24:11-13 – just to mention a few instances. Jesus was speaking to those who believed in Him (saved) and required them to continue in His word (John 8:31-36 – obedience). He spoke so many parables to bring this point home about the kingdom including the parable of the seed and sower in Mark 4 and the ten virgins in Matthew 25. The five foolish virgins were virgins! – yet they couldn’t get into the kingdom.
It’s time to pay attention to the teachings of Jesus by His Spirit and anyone He gives this understanding will never play with or minimize sin. It’s not by power not by our might but by His Spirit – with men it is impossible but with Him living a holy and perfect or blameless life is possible because He didn’t lie when He said we should be perfect and holy as His Father is. Whoever desires this power to overcome sin sincerely from our hearts will get it – He promised. Whoever continues to argue and use clichés to support covering sin would have a low chance to walk the narrow highway of holiness that Jesus described in Matthew 7:13-14. No wonder, He said very few will find it, not to talk of walking on it.
We can walk in His Spirit and not fulfill the sinful lusts of the flesh. Romans 8:1-14. It is possible.
“Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.” 1 John 3:7-8
“Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.” Ephesians 5:6-7
Lutek K. says
Each of us is already spending eternity with God. Even those of us (pretty much all of us) who stubbornly refuse to see our sins, much less turn away from them. Where else could we be, if not with the omnipresent God? What moment is not in eternity?
It’s a blessed good thing that God is so patient, loving and understanding.
Mike Goetz says
@Angie I’m curious how you would live this out in your daily life though. Would you speak the truth of God’s view against homosexuality to your your gay neighbors? To your co-workers? Would you say these things to gay people who don’t profess to be Christians? If so, why? Why would we demand or expect those who aren’t Christians to hold to Christian ideals?
True love is ascribing worth to another person at cost to yourself. It is the self-sacrifice of ‘dying’ for someone else. When it comes to condemning someone’s sin, the *only* scenario I can imagine where it is truly “speaking the truth in love” is when you already have a close relationship and you have mutual permission to speak into each others’ lives. Are Christians obligated or even justified to call out an entire people group (publicly or online) on their sin?
Charles Adiukwu says
Amen Angie. God bless you. For the love of God in our hearts cannot allow us to be silent when others are at risk.
“Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” (Colossians 1:28)
“that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.”(2 Corinthians 5:19-20)
Blake says
you know a true person who beleives in God does not constantly bring up scriptures
you act as if its all or nothing, I hope to our Good Lord that you are not a father
Ben Cooper says
Jeremy, If you feel the need to address sins which you feel are “greater” than homosexuality then certainly do so in love! I, and I think most respondents to this post, are receptive to that. But you have started down a very dangerous and slippery road when begin defending sin, any sin! Christianity is not a feel good religion, it is a “be conformed to the image of Christ” religion. Note: Jesus never sinned, even when he was driving the merchants out of the temple with a whip, which He Himself had made! So whip us into shape if you think that is necessary! But I plead with you not to neglect all of the clear Scriptural truths that have been shared here, in exchange for a politically correct lie.
Ben Cooper says
The gospel message is not just that Jesus has freed us from the consequence of sin, but from its present power as well! (See 1 Corinthians 10:13)
John Henson says
You people who quote scripture so freely and think you are the only ones who know it and have the keys to its interpretation and can never possibly be wrong, I ask you this one question, in how many verses of scripture did Jesus speak out against the self-righteous Pharisees and how many against gay people? Time to start reading the Bible instead of bashing it!
Brian Cordova says
They say that the devil can quote scripture and no more proof is needed than the use of scripture as attack against the LGBT community.
https://davebarnhart.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/how-being-a-pastor-changed-my-thinking-on-homosexuality/
Kieran says
Hi Brian….. as a “straight” man married to a black African woman ( her faith and belief in the scriptures are almost militant) …. I would like to say that you are an inspiration……
And to those who have expressed opinions, which they are entitled to do, preaching and preaching and, incase I forget, preaching some more on the evil of homosexuality I want to ask this……
If you were walking down the street and saw a man surrounded by other men and he was being beaten and kicked without mercy, blood pouring from his head……. And being the good Christians some here claim to be…… You went over to rescue the victim on the ground……..
As you pull away the attackers one of them tells you the victim is a “homo”………
My question is simple……. Given that so many on here cannot show love for a homosexual…
Does that mean you’d walk away and allow the attack to continue?
If you would then maybe you should question whether the love of God really is in your heart?
You see friends, verbal attacks are every bit as violent and hurtful as physical attacks and furthermore……..
Whilst everyone can have an opinion, please show me anywhere in the scriptures where it is taught that you have the right to sit in judgement on others?
The moment you discriminate, you give yourself over to evil thoughts and judgement and have therefore sinned.
So whether you like it or not, no one here, there or anywhere has the authority to judge or discriminate………
You may not agree with certain things and that is your right, but to judge or discriminate instantly makes you a sinner…….
When judgement day comes we will all be judged accordingly by God….. It would be a pity if those among us spent so much time focusing on the sins or not sins of others, that in our enthusiasm to judge others we forget to make our own backsides fireproof.
Peace and love to all 🙂
Sam Riviera says
Excellent response, Kieran. I can’t imagine Jesus would walk away. And, by the way, if anyone has the right to sit in judgment on others, it would be Jesus. As you say, it would not be us.
Ben Cooper says
I am a pastor. That is why I am speaking the truth in love here. I grew up literally surrounded by those given over to sexual perversion. Not only my neighbors but my uncle, who later confessed that it was a lie, and says he has stopped practicing it now.
Brian Cordova says
Did you read the full article?
Charles Adiukwu says
Two phrases that are like ‘clichés’ these days and used regularly are half-truths and can be misleading. These are ‘sin is missing the mark’ and ‘sin has been dealt with at the cross’.
Sin is not just missing the mark, sin is simply put -disobedience to God and it leads to unrighteousness.
“What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?” Romans 6:15-16
Anyone, including those who have believed, who practices sin without repenting and turning away from any and all sin will not spend eternity with God, even if they think they are okay till the end. The finished work of Christ (the Cross) is finished by Christ and should never be a license to continue in sin. (Hebrews 6:4-6, 10:22-29, 1 John 2:3-6). Whoever wilfully continues in unrepentant sinful lifestyle, the finished sacrifice of Jesus has no benefit for them.
“For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,..’Hebrews 10:26
“And then they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the Son of God and exposing him to public shame.” Hebrews 6:6
The deceitfulness of sin (Heb. 3:12-13) makes one abandon their faith without even knowing they have done that -thinking they are still saved while sinning unrepentantly – hence they are never again able to come to repentance. The Cross is never to be taken for granted! Sin makes one to do that!
That is why Jesus warned us, His followers, repeatedly about sin and deceiving ourselves to the point of arguing with Him on the last day. He makes this clear in Matthew 7:20-23, Luke 13:23-28, Matthew 10:22, 24:11-13 – just to mention a few instances. Jesus was speaking to those who believed in Him (saved) and required them to continue in His word (John 8:31-36 – obedience). He spoke so many parables to bring this point home about the kingdom including the parable of the seed and sower in Mark 4 and the ten virgins in Matthew 25. The five foolish virgins were virgins! – yet they couldn’t get into the kingdom.
It’s time to pay attention to the teachings of Jesus by His Spirit and anyone He gives this understanding will never play with or minimize sin. It’s not by power not by our might but by His Spirit – with men it is impossible but with Him living a holy and perfect or blameless life is possible because He didn’t lie when He said we should be perfect and holy as His Father is. Whoever desires this power to overcome sin sincerely from our hearts will get it – He promised. Whoever continues to argue and use clichés to support covering sin would have a low chance to walk the narrow highway of holiness that Jesus described in Matthew 7:13-14. No wonder, He said very few will find it, not to talk of walking on it.
We can walk in His Spirit and not fulfill the sinful lusts of the flesh. Romans 8:1-14. It is possible.
“Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.” 1 John 3:7-8
“Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.” Ephesians 5:6-7
Brian Cordova says
Actually, sin is an archery term and literally means “miss the mark”.
And many of the “lusts of the flesh” include religious manipulation.
Charles Adiukwu says
Missing which mark?
Brian Cordova says
Depends upon what you’re aiming for
Charles Adiukwu says
Okay.
Taco Verhoef says
Also a big point in this all is that Paul writes to believers. So if you have anything to say about sin, say it to believers, not the “world”
Ben Cooper says
Brian Cordova, I have hope for you as well!
Brian Cordova says
As I do for you. I have seen many overcome homophobia.
Ben Cooper says
I have not read the article yet but will, if you will check out the Scriptures I have shared as well. My question is, where in the Scriptures does it ever treat sexual perversion as no big deal?
Brian Cordova says
Let me know what you think of the article and if it softens your heart any.
Ben Cooper says
So, I read the Dave Barn Heart article. It was indeed a heart string pulling testimony. No doubt, aimed at trying to help ideologs and others who don’t really know people who are drawn to homosexuality, to feel more sympathetic towards their plight. However, I am not a person lacking in sympathy for you or any other lost soul! What particularly saddens me though is how nonchalantly this author and you miss characterise both the Scriptures and God. God will not be mocked, and you will not be saved by your good intentions. If you are really serious about doing business with God, here are a couple of Scripture to naw on. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and 1 Corinthians 10:13. Jesus does want to set you free! , and He will as He has done for repentant sinners every-single day! You just have to believe it. Here is a testimony of true freedom! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwxebmNY-wk
Blake says
yes but many people are forced into believing becuase they are scared
of the alternative this is also wrong, I dont want to serve a God that wants
to change me, I serve a God that knows whats in a persons heart. A person
cannot lie to themselves, no matter how much you think you beleive would
you for instance sacrifice one of your children if God asked you to, I highly
doubt it which would mean you disobeyed God, am I right? Of course I am.
So in conclusion noone can possiblt be good enough for your God which means
we are all doomed, because we all sin, and none of us can truly beleive in Jesus
unless we feel it in our hearts not our minds
Ben Cooper says
I don’t fear poor souls who have given themselves over to a perversion. I fear a God who will let them die if they don’t receive his gracious offer of redemption.
Brian Cordova says
Yet perfect love…well, you know the rest
Vladika Lazar Puhalo says
“I used to fear God, but now I love Him” (St Abba Antony the Great). “Whoever still has fear has not yet learned how to love perfectly…” (John) Fundamentalist Christianity is one of the greatest of all perversions. It perverts and destroys the Gospel and the hope of those who desire to find God but are blocked by the sick perversion of Fundamentalism and Literalism.
Ben Cooper says
“I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have nothing more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear Him!” -JESUS (Luke 12:4-5)
Blake says
it also states do not fear for I am with you, you are lying to yourself
pretending that you beleive in God, I will pray for you and your hate
message.
Brian Cordova says
Fear not!
Vladika Lazar Puhalo says
In fact, Ben, the main thing that we have to fear is that we might, through our actions and deeds, separate ourselves from our Saviour. As to `sexual perversion“, if you have done it your mind, your are guilty. I wonder how many of those who rave and rant about it are just trying to cover up what is going on in their own minds, else why would they spend so much time thinking about, rather like the Vicar in Moll Flanders.
Brian Cordova says
Those who protest the loudest and quote the most scriptures are hiding something.
Sam Riviera says
Quite often this proves true. I admire you hanging in there in this seemingly endless conversation
Jeremy Myers says
Ben, I refer to Luke 12:4-5 as a “theological shibboleth.” It appears that this statement was designed by Jesus to reveal a person’s theology rather than inform it (which is the best way to change it).
If a person believes God is violent, they will think that Jesus is telling us to fear God (even though the context does not require this).
If a person believes that God is not violent and loves His enemies (like Jesus) then Jesus’ statement in Luke 12:4-5 will make us stop and say, “Who is Jesus talking about? It cannot be God, so who is it?”
In this second case, the options are (1) Satan or (2) ourselves. But we are not to fear Satan either, so …
Here is a longer post with a better explanation (the comments from others are particularly helpful): https://redeeminggod.com/theological-shibboleth/
Ben Cooper says
Jeremy, one of the reasons I take the time to read your posts is because you don’t shy away from the hard questions, and my sense is that you really do want to understand the Bible and more importantly God. My take on the Luke 12: 4-5 or Mathew 10:28 passage is that Jesus is actually giving his disciples a command. The whole surround context is one of instruction to his disciples who He is sending out amongst metaphorical wolves. He wants them to be prepared for what they will face and He wants them to rest assured that if they do follow His instruction (i.e. fear Him) they will not fail to please Him or receive their due reward. The beautiful thing about fearing God, as we are command to do numerous times through Scripture, is that once we humble ourselves in this way we really do have nothing else fear! Here is a post I wrote on this subject last summer on my own blog. http://www.throughspiritualeyes.org/?p=326
Jeremy Myers says
Ben, I agree that it is a command. But the question is “Who is Jesus telling us to fear?” The text is not clear on this and scholars of all stripes differ on the answer. I see that you take it to be God (and there is good reason for this from numerous other texts), but I am not so sure this is what Jesus meant.
Ben Cooper says
Jeremy, Where do you get the idea that someone other than God has the ability to utterly destroy someone’s soul? Satan can tempt, and we can condemn ourselves, but is only God who gives and takes life, as He sees fit. Later on in Luke 23:31 Satan even has to ask permission of Jesus to tempt or test Peter. In my understanding, Satan is just a pawn in God’s master plan, to raise up a family of free willed souls who want to be what He wants us to be (unswervingly devoted sons and daughters of the Only Holy God). If that’s not what we want, than it is entirely God’s prerogative, and only God’s, to snuff out our miserable egocentric souls. As I see it Hell is not a place of violent retribution, but the merciful resolve of a long suffering Creator to once again start over.
Rudy A. Zacharias says
The wages of SIN is death; sin brings its own consequences – God does not punish us for sin (which He completely took care of once for all and for all time).
Brian Cordova says
Fear not.
Jeremy Myers says
Ben, where do you get the idea that God is a destroyer of souls? It is the thief (not God) who comes to steal, kill, and destroy.
And Satan is God’s pawn? So everything Satan does, is done by God’s will? Every murder, every rape, all torture is done because God willed it? So Satan is just there as God’s hit-man, to “keep God’s hands clean” even though God is calling all the shots?
And then God “snuffs out” those who don’t do what He wants?
Ben, your depiction of God looks an awful lot like Satan. Or at least like some Mafia leader.
Rene says
Amen Jeremy. Only a proud, self righteous person would dare to paint such an irreverent picture of a loving God. Satan will attack through the front door as well as, deceptively, through the back door. I see this as a backdoor attack under the garb of ‘righteousness.’
Jim. says
May i suggest that scriptual integrity govern someif these discussions. This passage has nothing to do with satan, but false teachers.
Brian Cordova says
At least, his god sounds more like Molech.
Ben Cooper says
Wow Jeremy! You gave me an awful lot to unpack! I don’t think I can do justice to your questions or accusations in this brief format. But, as always, I enjoy our engagement! Perhaps we could meet up for breakfast sometime, to meet in a more friendly environment and to hear each other out, in a more comprehensive way. The Universalist approach, that you seem to take, makes the same error as the Calvinists: Insisting on what God can and can not do, with a weight of Scriptural evidence to the contrary.
Ben Cooper says
Here are a couple of Scriptures to gnaw on if you so wish to see where I am coming from. “I have the keys of death and of Hades” (Rev 1:18) “And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.” (Rev 19:21) “And I saw the dead, the great and small, standing before the Throne,…then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the SECOND death” (the death of judged souls) (Revelation 20:12 & 20). Here we see the prophetic fulfillment of Luke 12:4-5 and Matthew 10:28.
Brian Cordova says
This may involve a more thorough study of the Book of Revelation, as many great misunderstandings have resulted from it’s teachings and many extreme doctrines of eternal damnation have been produced from it.
Nevertheless, whenever we choose to lift certain scripture from it’s context and choose to focus upon it based upon our past religious and traditional training, is perhaps the most dangerous usage of scripture and can lead to much spiritual abuse.
Jeremy Myers says
Ben, I am not a universalist. And Brian is right about the book of Revelation. The texts you quote are notoriously difficult, and each has a wide range of interpretive possibilities.
Ben Cooper says
Sorry about the label Jeremy! I wasn’t trying to shoehorn you. Just trying to make sense of your views, which are strange to me. I am encouraged that you and Brain at least take the book of Revelation as something that should be studied more thoroughly. Certainly, I don’t have it all figured out either! However, whether taken as wooden literal, figurative, or allegorical the passages I shared can not be quickly dismissed! They are not old covenant laws or culturally irrelevant teachings but the only accurate testament of Jesus, through His beloved apostle John, to His church that remains in the world today. If we don’t take this stuff seriously, we can not honestly think that we are representing Him at all! And if we can not receive clear teaching such as Revelation 21:7 & 8 on what authority do we stand? “The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Amen?
Jerrine Regan says
Justin Lee has written a really good article: http://www.respectfulconversation.net/hs-conversation/2015/7/2/three-ways-i-was-wrongand-how-we-can-get-it-right.html
Vladika Lazar Puhalo says
It is among the most meaningless and tacky statements ever.
Jeremy Myers says
Thanks, Vladika. I watch your YouTube videos from time to time, and love your book, For a Culture of Co-Suffering Love.
Ben Cooper says
I can not speak for others, but I shine the light of Jesus into this forum because there is much darkness here. And I hope by all Godly means to reach some who are lost there. At least the ones who hunger and thirst for righteousness, as I do.
Rene says
Sadly, for a sinner like me who has submitted his will entirely to God, I see darkness and not light shining through you. I see pride, the spirit of condemnation and the darkness of self righteousness in you. A person can disguise the hidden evil in his intentions (perhaps even without being completely aware of it himself) in his verbalizations and utterances , but he cannot hide or disguise the spirit behind his utterances, and if it is the Spirit of Christ speaking to the sinner, it can never be disguised or hidden. All I see is the evil spirit of condemnation in what you have verbalized. Only a proud person doth judge another. And by what authority do you dare to stand in the name of the Almighty God and judge some to be lost here and assume yourself to be saved? I will only say to such a spirit, “Get thee behind me Satan.”
Sam Riviera says
For those who wonder where the saying “Love the sinner but hate the sin” originated, let us see what Catholic Answers at Catholic.com has to say. “St. Augustine: His Letter 211 (c. 424) contains the phrase Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum, which translates roughly to ‘With love for mankind and hatred of sins.’ The phrase has become more famous as ‘love the sinner but hate the sin’ or ‘hate the sin and not the sinner’ (the latter form appearing in Mohandas Gandhi’s 1929 autobiography).”
For those who wonder what love looks like should we who rely on Augustine’s saying not also rely on what he had to say on the topic of love?: “What does love look like? It has the hands to help others. It has the feet to hasten to the poor and needy. It has eyes to see misery and want. It has the ears to hear the sighs and sorrows of men. That is what love looks like.”
When we use Augustine’s terminology, does our love also look like that which Augustine described? Are we “the hands to help” those whose sins we are hating? Do we have “the feet to hasten to the poor and needy”, “the eyes to see misery and want”, “the ears to hear the sighs and sorrows of men”? Is this what our love looks like?
For those of us who are very certain that we understand what Holy Scripture says on this topic (and on the curiously attendant topic of homosexuality) must we not also rely on our hero Augustine’s understanding of how we ought to handle our interpretations of Holy Scripture?: “In matters that are obscure and far beyond our vision, even in such as we may find treated in Holy Scripture, different Interpretations are sometimes possible without prejudice to the faith we have received. In such a case, we should not rush in headlong and so firmly take our stand on one side that, if further progress in the search of truth justly undermines this position, we too fall with it. That would be to battle not for the teaching of Holy Scripture but for our own, wishing its teaching to conform to ours, whereas we ought to wish ours to conform to that of Sacred Scripture.”
When we use Augustine’s terminology are we following the advice of a fifth century Catholic theologian, or the opinion of a well-known 20th century Hindu? (Did Gandhi the Hindu understand “sin” in the same way Christians do?) In any case, when we use the terminology are we using it in a manner consistent with either the usage of Augustine or Gandhi? Or have we invented our own application of the terminology?
Ivan Long says
A very poor understanding of what a sinner and sin is in the eyes of God…
Star Baumgardt says
Exactly!
Amanda Freeman says
That quote never even came from jesus, Mohandas Gandhi penned the idea and further popularized it when he wrote in his 1929 autobiography.
David Backus says
However, twice, the Bible says to hate what is evil. The Bible says it indirectly.
Amanda Freeman says
Not a whole two times ? Wow …
Stephen S. Gibney says
I don’t know how things suddenly became with Christians hating anyone or not. I know that such phrases as YOU HAVE DISCUSSED have been inherited by people who have embraced the slogans of religious marketers to oversimplify Christianity. The whole problem is more “in house” among Christians either oversimplification or redefinition of law, grace and Christ and salvation.
Anny Ruch says
why are you rude amanda? no one said Jesus said “love the sinner hate the sin”. it is just a common saying among christians.
Michael Zenker says
why is this dumb statement getting so much attention? how about…….NOT quote it at all?? seriously?
Ben Cooper says
Prov. 16: 4 says, The LORD works out everything to its proper end– even the wicked for a day of disaster. When we fail to acknowledge the enormity of God and His Sovereignty we don’t do Him or ourselves any favors! Is it more comforting to believe in a God who it like us, subject to the influences and powers around us, or to believe in the God of the Bible, who never ceases to carry along His story to its rightful end?
Blake says
You act as if you are perfect and sin free, and arrogant I may add. How about
pointing out your own flaws instead of teaching eternal damnation
Ward Kelly says
I am just wondering why we study the Bible at all if we are just supposed to “love” others and never confront sin? I was quite capable of loving others before I became a Christian. So what’s the point?
Sam Riviera says
Ward as I see it, our problem has to do with how we go about “confronting” sinners. When we are dealing with another person, another precious soul created and loved by God, are we working in conjunction with the Spirit in drawing that soul to God, or are we going on our own steam, often like a “bull in a china shop”, doing what we think should be done?
Perhaps we think another person’s sin, as we see it, is particularly heinous and we decide to confront the person. Are we working with the Spirit, or undoing what the Spirit has been doing in that person’s life? Are we drawing the person to Christ or irrevocably driving them away?
Most of us have changed our minds about many things in the course of our faith journeys. I remember many people who confronted others for what they perceived to be the “sins” of inter-racial marriage, divorce, remarriage after divorce and more. In many cases, those they confronted turned their backs on not only the one who confronted, but on God.
These days many of those who were confronting others have fallen silent on many of these issues. If we know them well we often times note that some of these very issues have affected them or those close to them. Sadly, however, those they “confronted” still very much remember the sting of their words and still put as much distance as possible between themselves and these folks and their religion and God.
Love seldom begets regret as we grow in age and wisdom. In the present, we must ask ourselves “How are we certain that the Spirit is directing us to confront anyone about what we think their sin might be? Before we confront another’s sin, have we first confronted and overcome our own sin?” Looking back we must by all means ask ourselves “How did that go? Do we still think the Spirit was directing what we did? Are we still involved in that person’s life? If not, why not if we love them? We did love them, right? Otherwise, why did we confront them and their sin? Could we have better shown our love for them in another way?”
Dominick Macelli says
Laurence Vance comments: “This verse is discussing the use God makes of his creation, not the decisions he makes for them. The Calvinist would lead us to believe that God made certain men wicked to fulfill the ‘counsel of his own will’ (Eph. 1:11). To the contrary, man was made upright (Ecc. 7:29), and is corrupt because Adam fell. Even Satan was once perfect until he sinned (Eze. 28:15-17). Since God does all his pleasure (Isa. 46:10), and yet has no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Eze. 33:11), then he couldn’t have created a man wicked to damn him in order to demonstrate his power.” (The Other Side of Calvinism, p.309, emphasis mine)
#examiningcalvinism
Jeremy Myers says
I love that book by Laurence Vance. Thanks for including his explanation.
Dominick Macelli says
Very welcome brother
Ben Cooper says
I too am not a Calvinist. In fact, I reject all five points of the TULIP, on the basis that none of them have any Scriptural support. Sorry I didn’t make that clear when I brought up the issue of God’s sovereignty. To me it simply means that nothing is outside of His ability to control. There is much indeed that He chooses NOT to control, particularly in regards to human beings. For LOVE demands it! To me, Love is not Love if it is forced or even coerced. Which is precisely why God allows human beings, who are not interested in the Holy perfection that He is about, to opt out. So, why do I believe God is responsible for the destruction of human souls? Because most people in this world would rather die than surrender to His will for them! We have only two options in this life, to be a vessel of honor, or of dishonor. If we don’t want to honor Him, love demands that He remove our rebellious souls from His Glorious created order. We may not like the rules, but that does not make Him less Loving of us, just HOLY!
David Backus says
I still stand by that phrase. I DO love sinners. And I DO hate sin. stopping at the word “love” is vague. it assumes that sin is perfectly ok and it assumes that love won’t ever confront people on sin. Then you are talking about a whole other religion altogether.
Jerry Eisley says
Amen
ntjufen says
Another Great Post, Jeremy! This reminds me a La Fontaine fable I learnt in High school, and La Fontaine had a very good acquaintance with Scriptures:
The English translation below is very well inspired.
La Besace
Jupiter dit un jour : “Que tout ce qui respire
S’en vienne comparaître aux pieds de ma grandeur :
Si dans son composé quelqu’un trouve à redire,
Il peut le déclarer sans peur ;
Je mettrai remède à la chose.
Venez, Singe ; parlez le premier, et pour cause.
Voyez ces animaux, faites comparaison
De leurs beautés avec les vôtres.
Etes-vous satisfait? – Moi ? dit-il, pourquoi non ?
N’ai-je pas quatre pieds aussi bien que les autres ?
Mon portrait jusqu’ici ne m’a rien reproché ;
Mais pour mon frère l’Ours, on ne l’a qu’ébauché :
Jamais, s’il me veut croire, il ne se fera peindre. ”
L’Ours venant là-dessus, on crut qu’il s’allait plaindre.
Tant s’en faut : de sa forme il se loua très fort
Glosa sur l’Eléphant, dit qu’on pourrait encor
Ajouter à sa queue, ôter à ses oreilles ;
Que c’était une masse informe et sans beauté.
L’Eléphant étant écouté,
Tout sage qu’il était, dit des choses pareilles.
Il jugea qu’à son appétit
Dame Baleine était trop grosse.
Dame Fourmi trouva le Ciron trop petit,
Se croyant, pour elle, un colosse.
Jupin les renvoya s’étant censurés tous,
Du reste, contents d’eux ; mais parmi les plus fous
Notre espèce excella ; car tout ce que nous sommes,
Lynx envers nos pareils, et Taupes envers nous,
Nous nous pardonnons tout, et rien aux autres hommes :
On se voit d’un autre œil qu’on ne voit son prochain.
Le Fabricateur souverain
Nous créa Besaciers tous de même manière,
Tant ceux du temps passé que du temps d’aujourd’hui :
Il fit pour nos défauts la poche de derrière,
Et celle de devant pour les défauts d’autrui.
The Wallet
From heaven, one day, did Jupiter proclaim,
‘Let all that live before my throne appear,
And there if any one hath aught to blame,
In matter, form, or texture of his frame,
He may bring forth his grievance without fear.
Redress shall instantly be given to each.
Come, monkey, now, first let us have your speech.
You see these quadrupeds, your brothers;
Comparing, then, yourself with others,
Are you well satisfied?’ ‘And wherefore not?’
Says Jock. ‘Haven’t I four trotters with the rest?
Is not my visage comely as the best?
But this my brother Bruin, is a blot
On thy creation fair;
And sooner than be painted I’d be shot,
Were I, great sire, a bear.’
The bear approaching, doth he make complaint?
Not he;–himself he lauds without restraint.
The elephant he needs must criticize;
To crop his ears and stretch his tail were wise;
A creature he of huge, misshapen size.
The elephant, though famed as beast judicious,
While on his own account he had no wishes,
Pronounced dame whale too big to suit his taste;
Of flesh and fat she was a perfect waste.
The little ant, again, pronounced the gnat too wee;
To such a speck, a vast colossus she.
Each censured by the rest, himself content,
Back to their homes all living things were sent.
Such folly liveth yet with human fools.
For others lynxes, for ourselves but moles.
Great blemishes in other men we spy,
Which in ourselves we pass most kindly by.
As in this world we’re but way-farers,
Kind Heaven has made us wallet-bearers.
The pouch behind our own defects must store,
The faults of others lodge in that before.
Cindy Lou says
God doesn’t hate? God isn’t that worked up about sin? Might be time to open your Bible – https://shortlittlerebel.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin-thats-not-what-god-or-jesus-do/
Lutek K. says
It might be time to close your Bible for a while, and open your heart a bit more.
Carole says
In agreement!
Sam says
I hear you, Cindy!
Simon Morton says
I don’t see anything wrong with the phrase ‘Love the sinner and hate the sin’ in fact I think it says a great deal in a few simple words.
I think to sin just means to miss the mark, which we all do from time to time.
For me this phrase just means that we should value, respect, cherish and love each human inherently because they are fellow human beings regardless of any labels we wish to put on them and that it is helpful and constructive to distinguish people’s ‘mark-missing’ behaviour from their inherent value as a human being i.e. ‘I think what Donald Trump said about banning all Muslims from the United States of America is stupid’ and NOT ‘Donald Trump is stupid’.
fuzzy socks says
It’s great to have debate and discussion, to seperate the truth from the lies; however, it saddens me to see the tension and brimming hate for one another in the comments. Different views are okay, but I’ll just share what I’m getting from all of this (Please don’t chew me out on this. Remember, it’s just what I have gathered).
Matthew 5:43-43
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
So what I am getting from this is that when the world is raging around me and persecuting me because I am a Christian I should pray for those who persecute me. I must love my enemies even if they persecute me. I am sure we can all think of persecution in our lives, whether it be from the media or in our own neighborhood. We are often persecuted because what they believe may be totally acceptable to them, but to us it is a sin, and when we say it is a sin the world gets mad at us for not “accepting” their sin, so we are called out as cruel haters. There is no way that we should love sin or tolerate sin, but we must realise that we are sinners ourself. Because of this, I find the quote “Love the sinner, hate the sin” rather tricky. As we are all sinners, then this quote could be interpreted to love ourselves but hate the sin inside of us. It is almost saying “let the sin be. Even if you hate it, just love yourself”. It is our duty as Christians to attempt to remove the sin in our life and to help our Brothers and Sisters in Christ do the same. If we just let the sin be we will not be doing our duty. Only God can fully remove the sin in us. We can only pray to God to help remove not only the sin in our lives, but also the sin in others lives.
Carole says
I just happened to come across this site.. Happenstance, God nudge? Lol. Who knows.. I’m thoroughly enjoying it, though.
Peace be with you all.
Jeremy Myers says
Glad to have you here! Thanks for reading and commenting.
Sabi says
So far I have liked your insights into the scripture but your last podcast bothered me. I believe that there are sins that are unforgivable, even by G-d. I understand that we don’t know every person’s backround and story and that G-d does, but I don’t want any part of a G-d that forgives Hitler, Stalin, Mao, ISIS, etc. G-d tells us that it is our duty to fight evil. There has to be a punishment for the wicked and a reward for the righteous in the world to come or otherwise life becomes a bad joke. You see very bad people who are wealthy and live long lives, and good people who are poor or become sick and die young. There has to be some reward for being good or why bother. I can’t believe that someone can be evil all their lives and then at the last second accept Christ and all is well. That doesn’t sit well with me. I believe that works trumps faith every time. I think that a good person who lives an ethical life and is a credit to society but is not religious will get more in the world to come than a religious person who is unethical and does bad things. I put a lot more stock in what a person does than what he says.
Lutek K. says
I don’t want any part of a god who won’t forgive people who don’t forgive other people.
Sam says
Amen!
Craig Giddens says
“works trumps faith every time”
What works? How do you know you are doing the right works and how do you know if you are doing enough of the right works? Who determines what qualifies a person as being good or what is an ethical life? How do you know when you’ve done enough good works?
Your philosophy is a slap in the face of God.
… for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Galatians 2:21)
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:29)
Craig Giddens says
You are basing your opinion on strawmen arguments and extreme ones at that. How many people in the category of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, ISIS, etc have you actually ever heard of that made a profession of faith at the end of their life.
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” (James 2:10)
Lutek K. says
The whole faith vs. works argument seems to me to be a straw man that only distracts focus from the Spirit.
Isn’t a profession of faith an action in itself, and on the other hand, isn’t acting according to one’s faith the ultimate expression and thus profession of it?
As for a “profession of faith at the end of their life,” your point doesn’t make much sense to me. It just raises more questions:
Does your life end when your body fails? Are you your body?
If a deathbed acceptance of faith is effective and important, how can we tell if a person has had one, or why should we need to? How can we pass final judgement on anyone based on a recorded deathbed confession (or at all?)
What is the proper category for Hitler, Stalin, Mao, (none of whom acted alone, by the way) and ISIS? Even they had faith in the attitudes and principles behind what they did, as misguided as those were.
So, how do you know you’re doing the right works, and also, how do you know you have the right faith?
“The right faith” is not produced in the mind, and so it is not faith at all. It is a reflection of living in the Spirit. Living in the Spirit produces the right works.
It is important to note that in the passage from John which you quoted, Jesus didn’t say “…that ye believe on me” but “…that ye believe on him whom he (God) hath sent.” “Him whom he hath sent” is the Holy Spirit.
The Son of the Father is not Jesus, but the Spirit that gives life to everything, including the universe itself.
Most of the rest of the chapter (John 6:30-64) tells of Jesus often speaking metaphorically AS the Holy Spirit in order to try to awaken his audience to being OF the Spirit, because he himself was living and being fully IN the Spirit. The biggest problem Jesus was having was that then, just as still now, people could not let go of their indoctrinated views of the world and of their religions, enough to allow and experience the FACT of spiritual being. People’s minds can’t imagine themselves as anything above and beyond their physical bodies, and their experiences as anything other than products of their brains. Any concept of heaven has always been made into a physical place, somewhere, sometime and somehow outside of present reality.
Jesus summed it up in verses 63 & 64: “3The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. (The act of speaking to and understanding each other comes from the Spirit, as does the very act of being alive!) Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” (The explanation given by the author of the last sentence in John 6:64 is misleading, and indicates that the author himself didn’t fully understand what Jesus was saying.)
“Some of you who do not believe” doesn’t mean “who do not believe in me,” in Jesus. It doesn’t mean those who don’t believe in the Bible, or in the cross, or the church, or the true faith, or any of that. It means some of you who do not believe in the reality of Spirit, right here, right now, always and everywhere.
Craig Giddens says
Believing or exercising faith is not a work, but an act of the will.
“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” (Romans 4:5)
My point about end of life professions was in response to an earlier post in which the person didn’t want anything to do with a God who could forgive someone like a Hitler. My question was how many deathbed professions were they actually aware of concerning people like Hitler? My point was she probably didn’t know of any, but was making a strawman argument. We really don’t know what happens at death-bed confessions. Did they really believe the gospel?
You’re asking the same questions I was asking. If you’re basing your salvation on your works how do you know if you are saved? How do you know what works save you and how do you know when you’ve done enough?
Jesus is the one whom the Father sent as referenced in John 6:29. John 3:16 makes this perfectly clear, plus if you look at John 7:39 the Holy Spirit had not yet been given.
The right faith is believing the gospel as outlined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
1 Corinthians 15
1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Romans 1
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Lutek K. says
“Jesus” and “Christ” are not identical in meaning. The difference is crucial to understanding the N.T.
It is Christ that was “the one he has sent” in John 6:29.
John 3:16 doesn’t mention Jesus at all.
The practical problem with studying the Bible, especially the New Testament, is the same as the problem with studying and practicing the law. If you focus too much on the letter, the exact, literal meaning of the words, it is easy to overlook the spirit in which the document was written and assembled, and important details of its provenance.
If you believe in Biblical literacy and the infallibility of the Bible’s writers, then those passages you quote and many others in the N.T. are indeed hard to understand, even after two thousand years of examination and discussion – at least without developing some fantastic theology that goes completely against God and nature. But if you know and feel the Spirit, then you understand the spirit of the New Testament, which is simply a continuation, development and maturation of the “Old.” Both are full of symbolism, allegory and metaphor. In Judaism, scripture and the understanding of it was historically taken to be a work in progress, a collection of inspiration and commentary on the nature of God and Man (including, of course, Womb-man).
Several times in the gospels Jesus expresses frustration with his disciples’ lack of understanding of their spiritual natures. Paul later expresses the same frustration much more frequently though usually much less spiritually.
Why focus on the opinions of the gospels’ writers instead of on what Jesus himself was trying to tell us?
Much of Christianity today ignores the true, spiritual communion that Jesus sought to establish, in favor of man-made rules, tenets, and rituals.
Jesus himself taught, essentially, that if we knew, felt and understood the Spirit of the Law, we wouldn’t need it in writing.
Sage says
Let me just admit this here and now: I am no Christian. In fact, I am gay and transgender. And for all those who believe the statement argued is acceptable in any way, let me give my perspective so that you may hope to view LGBT from the inside.
To call us sinners is hurtful. It is a jab at who we are. I don’t doubt that we have all encountered those that tell us we are wrong, that our way of life is condemned by all, and that it be better for us to live their way. And I have to say, for someone else to tell us what is right and what is wrong is a shiv to the heart.
Would you rather we be married to the opposite sex, within our own sex, and be unhappy, or live happily outside God’s ideal?
It is, rather, a matter of morality. We all decide our own morals, in the end. I’ve heard all of your Christian morals: basically, God and Jesus are your saviours. You live by them. Have you heard our morals? Here it is: Love comes in all forms.
You claim to love us, but all I can read from these comments are cold, Biblical references devoid of love. I love Christians, as much as I love my family, friends, coworkers and all other humans. However, I can’t help but believe the love I give is unrequited.
I have commonly heard from religious people that us wanting them to accept LGBT people is “shoving our beliefs down their throats”. But would it not be called the same if religious people told us that we are condemned to Hell unless we drop everything and join their religion?
Surprise: we don’t want to be told that we are wrong. Ignorance is bliss. We don’t want to hear about what the Bible says about us. We don’t want to be called sinners, or abominations, or sexual deviants, or whatever else people might throw at us. We aren’t destroying the sanctity of marriage, we aren’t separating children from their rightful parents, we aren’t SINNERS. Why? Because we don’t believe in sin. If we wanted to change, we would’ve joined the church. But we don’t. I don’t want to be told that I am wrong for believing that I am not the gender I was assigned at birth, just as religious people are not wrong for believing in God. Gays, lesbians and bisexuals are not wrong for being attracted to those of the same sex, just as straight people are not wrong for being attracted to those of the opposite sex.
Please, stop telling us that we are sinners and that we are engaging with sin. If so, then love is sin.
Sam Riviera says
Sage, some of us hear you. I’ve had similar conversations with friends who follow other religions. These friends understand that I do not accept many of the beliefs of their religions, so therefore do not feel it necessary to live by those beliefs. For example, some of our Hindu friends do not eat meat, especially beef. They understand that I do not accept their beliefs and they do not expect me to not eat beef. If one of them told me if I eat beef I will suffer eternal torment (none have told me such a thing), I would tell them I don’t accept their belief system and therefore don’t believe I must not eat beef. If you are not Christian then it is understandable that you do not feel it necessary to live by Christian beliefs.
Many Christians believe that anyone who does not follow Jesus and believe his teachings will suffer eternal torment. Therefore, they believe it is their duty to tell everyone who does not believe that they must believe. When Christians talk about what is and what is not sin, however, they do not always agree on these things. When I was growing up I remember the woman who sincerely believed that eating anything sweetened with sugar was a sin. I also remember a couple that my family knew. The husband was a traveling preacher. His wife accompanied him. In one area they traveled, the churches they went to believed red neckties for men were sinful. Only black neckties were acceptable. In another area, people believed that black neckties were sinful. One area believed that short hair for women was sinful. The other area believed that long hair for women was sinful. What did they do? – He packed several colors of neckties and wore the “not sinful” version for wherever they were. She cut her hair short and wore a long wig when in the area where only long hair was acceptable. We laugh at such a silly story today, but to the people involved it was all very serious business.
Some Christians have difficulty expressing their beliefs to people who are not Christians in loving ways. They think they are doing the right thing, and do not understand that they are actually pushing the people they are talking to further from Christianity and from Jesus. We’ve experienced something similar with people from other religions who have knocked on our front door and then proceeded to tell us in a most unloving manner that we were in danger because we didn’t believe as they do. Guess what? – That did not make us or anyone else we knew the least bit interested in accepting their beliefs. It actually made us less interested.
Blake says
I may not agree with you but I sure sense alot of love and a good heart.
I have friends that are Gay, they didnt ask to be that way and by trying
to turn away from it would be lying to themselves and to God, God wants
you to be yourself, I myself am bisexual, does that mean I am sinning? No
I refrain from sex completely but I am still attracted to both men and women
At least I am being honest, God knows the truth from the lie, and you are a
truthful loving kind person who is trying to adapt to a harsh world, I pray
for you and many others the best way I know how, God Bless you
Craig Giddens says
Jesus is His name and Christ (anointed one/ Messiah) is His title.
God gave us His word in words because that’s how we read, learn, understand, and communicate. The words He gave us communicates truth that leads us to an understanding of who He is, His will for our lives, how to be saved and what happens when get we saved. The truths of His word sets us free. While there is symbolism, allegory and metaphor in the Bible, the normal way of studying is the literal approach, looking at the context, and comparing scripture with scripture. If you read the entire chapter of John 3 it is obvious Jesus is speaking of Himself in verse 16. Your mystical approach seeks to by-pass the plain literal meaning of scripture and insert your feelings so you can create a God after your own imagination because if you take the literal approach you will realize you are sinner and are accountable to God for your sins.
Lutek K.o says
Jesus was the physical man. The Christ is the perfect personality of the Holy Spirit. It is that personality which manifests in each of us to whatever degree we allow it to “descend upon” us. If “the Christ” is just a title, then how can you hope to be and live in Christ, as so many Christians claim to be doing?
God gives us MANY words, messages, symbols and hints, probably because being a “sinner” is in our human nature. I’m sure even Jesus misbehaved as a child on occasion – or wasn’t he human?
Stop thinking of yourself as a worthless sinner. Don’t despise yourself for making mistakes and wrong choices, just fix them as best you can, learn what you have to from them,then let them go. That’s how it’s supposed to work. You could say it’s part of God’s plan.
As a textbook Christian you know that God forgives you, so why don’t you forgive yourself too? Start believing that you are a child of God, with the real work of God to do – which, whatever the details boil down to in any individual case, is above all else, to love.
Craig Giddens says
Jesus is the son of God (Romans 1:3-4).
He was God manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16)
He never sinned (2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 Peter 2:22, 1 John 3:5).
I don’t think of myself as a worthless sinner. I am blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ (Ephesians 1: 3)
Some of these blessing include:
My sins are forgiven – Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14 and 2:13, Galatians 1:4
I have peace with God – Romans 5:1
I am acceptable by God – Ephesians 1:6
I have the righteousness of Christ imputed to me – 2 Corinthians 5:21
I am a new creature in Christ – 2 Corinthians 5:17
I am baptized into the body of Christ – 1 Corinthians 12:13
I am indwelt with the Holy Spirit – 1 Corinthians 6:19
I am sealed with the Spirit – Ephesians 1:13
I am sealed with the Spirit unto the day of redemption – Ephesians 4:30
I am preserved in Christ – Jude 1
I will be confirmed to the end by Christ – 1 Corinthians 1:8
I am a citizen of the household of God – Ephesians 2:19
I am in the kingdom of God’s Son – Colossians 1:13
I am complete in Christ – Colossians 2:9-10
Forgive myself? Why would I want to engage in worthless worldly psychological drivel when God has already forgiven me!
Lutek K. says
My apologies. but your mistaken assumption that i’m trying to imagine God to suit my own purposes sounds like a bit of your own psychological drivel to me, and your unnecessary and uncalled-for reminder that i can be a sinner made me think you might be suffering from a typical Calvinistic-style guilt trip. I’m truly happy for you that you appreciate your spiritual blessings.
I wonder how you imagine the infancy of Jesus. Did his mother or Joseph never need to teach him or correct him? Didn’t he need to learn and experience what it means to be human, to be subject to emotions, desires and temptations, to learn how to control the natural responses to those, to grow into an adult, before he could teach us?
By the way, Jesus doesn’t mention himself anywhere in his conversation with Nicodemus, but i believe he was referring to the Holy Spirit.
Lutek K. says
Jesus is the son of God. So are you and so am i. Anyone who yearns and strives for God is a son or daughter of God.
Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. So are you and i, and everyone and everything else, striving or not.
Jesus never sinned. But that applies to the adult Jesus. In that time and culture, he would not have been considered a person until his bar mitzvah.
Craig Giddens says
I assure you I am definitely NOT a Calvinist and am not suffering from any type of a guilt trip.
I don’t imagine anything about Jesus. The Bible clearly teaches He never sinned so I have no reason to believe otherwise.
I don’t know what version you are reading from, but in John 3 Jesus definitely is referring to Himself.
14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Bruce Pagano says
Great article. I just wrote one last week about the same thing. Took a little different approach, but the conclusion is the same.
http://www.thewholeman.co/love-sinner-hate-sin-except-ours/
Lake says
I do believe that because of God’s Grace that we all are now fully Accepted, Loved, And Alive in Christ. And that we are no longer sinners in the eyes of God, but His Beloved Children. No matter if we have been alcoholics, sex addicts, murderers, thiefs, gluttons, drug addicts, religionists, homosexuals, racists, and so-on. We now live in the light of God’s Grace.
NOW, I have been a SEVERE Alcoholic, Drug Addict, Sex Addict, Thief, Glutton, and more. I say severe, because in doing these things, I caused Great Harm to others and myself.
I am in know way better than anyone else. BUT, Now living in Christ, I DO NOT believe that it is God’s Desire, nor is it BENEFICIAL to others or myself, for me to go out and get Butt WASTED drunk and high on Drugs and get behind the wheel of a car and just go for a cruize around town. Nor would it be good for me to go out and shoot somebody dead, or to go around sleeping with a bunch of men’s wives. That would be SIN! Sin does exist in this world weather we want to believe it or not. Nor do I believe that God wants me to teach my son to choose to be with a man or woman. Whatever one suits his Fancy that he wants to be with.
This NEW LIFE doesn’t just end with, GOD LOVES US. We have life to live after that also. And God wants his best for us. Some things don’t equal God’s best for us. Just because I say say that THE “ACT” OF Homosexuality a sin, doesn’t mean I don’t Love the person. Their Identity is in ChristI’m an Alcoholic, Drug Addict, Sex Addict. Those “ACTS” are sin. But my identity is in Christ.
There is consequences for our sin. I do not believe that it is God’s desire for us as Christians to Preach that Homosexuality is what he desires for us to Live Out In Light Of Christ.
Jeremy Myers says
There are maybe three verses in the Bible about homosexuality. But there are scores and scores of verses about pride, anger, jealousy, gossip, slander, greed, and a whole host of other “sins” that plague modern Christianity. I am more than happy to have a discussion about homosexuality AFTER we all take care of the issues that Scripture seems most concerned with.
DAve Bowling says
Jeremy:
I just want to say thanks for your article (which I came upon by google searching LTS-HTS) and appreciate you stepping out and supporting those like me who are feeling a backlash from all these “wonderful – love-filled christians” who hate while saying they love.
I noticed in the comments that many who followed you are now feeling betrayed and walking away.
I just wish to say that your article/blog has gained a new follower … even though I am a gay christian. (And some of your folks may say that is impossible and an abomination against god.) I would say to those folks – I have been called worse by far better folks than you. Go get a life and take care of yourselves – concentrate on the log in your own eye before you cast stones at me (I know, crossing two stories into a single one – but it just seems right at this time)
Lord knows we each have enough to deal with in our own yards without some stepping in and thinking we need to tell anyone else how “bad” they are and that “you folks who believe that way” are going to hell. (Which is, by the way, a notion that I do not believe since a loving god cannot possibly be a hateful asshole and put his creation into this so-called thing we call hell. I truly believe that is a construction of some power person wishing to control others.)
Well, hang in there and keep on keeping it real.
Jerry D. Kimble says
I just feel for you you arent living the life God has ordained for you to live If He commanded you to live holy, godly and a lifestyle that pleases Him, He will empower you to do it He doesnt work against Himself He loves you dearly and so do I be blessed and listen to Him
True Church of Jesus Christ says
Dave, may God bless you and keep you. We are made in his image, and you are exactly who he wanted you to be, gay and all.
Please, do not listen to the corrupted Churches or Modern Christians. They do not speak the word of Christ nor do they carry his message.
Christ fulfilled the Old Testament upon his ressurection, proving he was the promised Messiah, and during his life stated that the two greatest commandments were to love God and love one another. Without qualification. Without fine print.
You are a child of God, just like me and everyone else. You’re loved and accepted.
And while I’m on the topic, Christ said nothing against being Gay. Nothing at all. He spoke about a great many things in exactly detail, but not about being Gay. So are we to assume he was against it? Or are we to assume that in absence of clear instruction we are to assume that so long as it doesn’t conflict with his commandment to love one another that it’s acceptable?
I believe that the intention of a God of love is the latter, and I’d encourage you to ignore the hateful Christians out there. They do not follow the true message of Christ, they are not true believers, and they are on the wide path to Hell. Believe that.
Everett Scordo says
Jeremy: I would say you wish and ask God to demonstrate His will and His need to have your lifestyle. However, in the meantime you have to be still and pay attention for His route, His assistance which can come through checking Holy bible, through your quiet prayer periods with God or through a trusted Religious consultant and/or buddy. When I wish, I now ask God for what I want, i.e. getting back together, but simultaneously I ask God to demonstrate me His will and to set up my lifestyle with His will. Every prayer I have ever interceded God has answered. It’s not always yes, but in the end it’s exercised. During my divorce from my ex-husband he was asking me to contact off the proceedings and I interceded for God to demonstrate me ex-DH’s center to see if he was honest. I interceded that if it he was not that God would start gates and “let this cup pass.” God showed me ex-DH was not honest and he opened gates. God will not keep you in the dark. Not sure if you analysis “I do” but in it Cheryl speaks of how she had a prayer journal and how she “wrestled” with God on certain issues and how he talked to her. All we have to do is ask. We have to strip away the pride and really be honest with God and let Him know our concerns and what we desire, and then keep the relax up to Him. I don’t know what God’s will is for your lifestyle, but whatever it is I know it’s excellent. He has already worked well everything out, you just have to move in His way and believe in. Trust that regardless of what happens it’s for the best. He is using this period in your lifestyle to mold you and get you in the particular spot He wants you to be. So, just believe in and proceed hoping and learning His term. Everything is going to be good.
eddyvideostart says
“God isn’t nearly as worked up about sin as we are. God is not in the sin-management business.”
—————————————————————————————————-
Psalm 145:20
The LORD keeps all who love Him, “But all the wicked He will destroy.”
Oh, no? Does anybody believe that God is not as worked up about sin as we are? Much worse! We and the majority will not destroy another person — but the perfect God will! “But the wicked (PERSON) he will destroy.” This is the apex of hate, and rightfully so, this is how the true God can clean up the wickedness in the world as he is in the rebuilding process. He needs to do this. This must be done. The subjects who are engaging in a means in order to destroy themselves. The sin and well as the person will be expunged. They go hand in hand.
“And finally, the entire “Love the Sinner; Hate the Sin” statement is complete BS”
Young man, may I ask: What is “BS?”
Author, please check your work again.
Kieran says
This whole conversation is not helping with my coffee addiction!!!
I posted a reply a couple of days ago and whilst supping on further cups of coffee and giving consideration to all the posts I was reminded of something Mohatma Ghandi also said……
“I like Christ…….. I don’t like Christians so much.”
Before I submit my next post, please take time to read this beautiful article I found……….
Why I Can’t Say ‘Love the Sinner/Hate the Sin’ Anymore
Dec 31, 2013 | Updated Mar 02, 2014
Micah J. Murray Blogger at RedemptionPictures.com
I’m done.
I can’t look my gay brother in the eye anymore and say “I love the sinner but hate the sin.” I can’t keep drawing circles in the sand.
I thought I just needed to try harder. Maybe I needed to focus more on loving the sinner, and less on protesting the sin. But even if I was able to fully live up to that “ideal,” I’d still be wrong. I’d still be viewing him as something other, something different.
Not human. Not friend. Not Christian. Not brother.
Sinner.
And despite all my theological disclaimers about how I’m just as much a sinner too, it’s not the same. We don’t use that phrase for everybody else. Only them. Only “the gays.” That’s the only place where we make “sinner” the all-encompassing identity.
Then we try to reach them, to evangelize them. We speak of “the gays” in words reminiscent of the “savages” from those old missionary stories — foreign and different and far away, the ultimate conquest for the church to tame and colonize and save.
Maybe we accept them in our midst. But even then, it’s sinners in our midst — branded with a rainbow-colored scarlet letter. They aren’t truly part of us.
Even that word “them” makes me cringe as I speak it, as if my brothers and sisters are somehow other, different from me.
It’s a special sort of condescending love we’ve reserved for the gay community. We’ll agree to love them, accept them, welcome them — but we reserve the right to see them as different. We reserve the right to say “them” instead of “us.” We embrace them with arms full of disclaimers about how all the sinners are welcome here. And yet, they’re the only ones we constantly remind of their status as sinners, welcome sinners.
In all this, we turn our backs on all the gay brothers and sisters already in our church, already following Jesus. Our “us vs. them” narrative leaves little space for those who didn’t choose to be gay, but did choose to follow Jesus. Using “gay” and “sinner” interchangeably, we force them away from the Table and into the shadows.
They say Jesus was a friend of sinners, but he didn’t describe himself that way.
His motto wasn’t “eating and drinking with prostitutes and tax collectors.” Those were the labels used by the religious community, by the disapproving onlookers. What’s amazing about Jesus is that when he hung out with sinners, he didn’t act like they were sinners. They weren’t a “project,” a “mission field.” They were his friends. People with names. Defined as beloved children of the Creator, not defined by their sins. Icons of God’s image. His brothers and sisters.
It was the Pharisees who looked at them and scrawled “sinner” on their foreheads. It was the accusers who drew circles in the sand with themselves on the inside and “those sinners” on the outside.
Those words — “a friend of sinners” — were spoken with an upturned nose and a self-righteous sneer. And that’s the same phrase the church has adopted to speak of our own brothers and sisters — “Love the sinner, hate the sin.”
It’s the same self-righteous sneer heard in the words of those who dragged the woman caught in adultery to Jesus: “What should we do with such a woman?” They defined her by a moment. She was “one of those.” Not a sister. Not a human. Just a pawn in a political debate. A sinner.
But Jesus knelt with her in the sand. Unafraid to get dirty. Unafraid to affirm her humanity. “Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.”
He could have said “You’re a sinner, but I love you anyways.” But she knew she was a sinner. Those voices were loud and near and they held rocks above her head.
Jesus refused to let his voice join theirs. By telling her “go and sin no more,” he affirmed that sin is not her deepest identity. It’s not how he saw her. It’s not who she was at the core of the being.
I am a sinner.
But before I was a sinner, I was created in the image of God. While sin has twisted and smudged that image, it can’t erase it. Sin is so terrible that it killed Jesus. But it doesn’t define me any longer. I am a new creation.
Because of Jesus, “sinner” is not how God sees me. It’s not how I see myself. And it shouldn’t be how I see my brothers and sisters in the church.
There is no condemnation for those who are in Jesus. To look at my gay Christian brother and say “God loves the sinner” is to set myself against Jesus and bring condemnation again to those he’s already redeemed.
So I’m done.
I’m done with “Love the sinner, but hate the sin.”
I won’t say it anymore.
I’m done with speaking as if I’m different, better than you.
We are icons. We are children of the Creator, redeemed by Jesus. We are brothers and sisters.
And today, that’s enough.
True Church of JC says
Not human. Not friend. Not Christian. Not brother.
Sinner.
————-
Your interpretation is overly simplified and wrong.
Human, friend, Christian, Brother — but also Sinner. Sin is not this mystical toggle switch that if it’s on, you’re nothing BUT a sinner. We all sin. We all fall short of God’s grace.
Hate is rejection. Love is acceptance. So it’s apt to say, “Reject the sin but accept the sinner.”
We are to hate sin. If we fear God, we are to hate sin. And Jesus commanded us to love each other. So in a very real way we are to hate the sin but love the sinner, are we not?
So is your problem the saying? Or is it our execution of it and how people use this saying to justify hating others? I think that’s your real problem. And if you can’t seem to differentiate because hating the sin and hating the sinner, then you need to look into your heart and question yourself as to why not and truly pray on that.
We are to both hate the sin but love one another. If people are using this as a means to hate others, then that is their problem. It is not a problem of the saying.
Kieran says
Before I get jumped on. The full quote from Gandhi (corrected my earlier typo lol) was “I like Christ…. I don’t like Christians so much. Christians are so unlike Christ”……… I can see his point.
The question of is homosexuality a sin has been done to death so I’m not going there…….whatever I wish to say to someone from the lgbt community I say in private and with courtesy….. After all, how would you feel if you were carrying a few extra pounds and someone came up to you and started addressing you as fatty or refusing to allow you into a venue as they were sure you’d eat all the pies?
So when I see people posting comments that lack any common decency, courtesy and consideration for a person’s feelings……. Such as “homos are going to hell”…….. I have to ask at what point in your life did you separate “homos” from the rest of the human race?
I would suggest that by attaching labels to people it makes it easier to de-humanise and therefore easier to insult and offend.
Let me be clear….. I personally don’t get homosexuality…. I actually don’t understand where it comes from…….. But let me also be clear, I’m thankful I never had to wrestle with that part of my identity and suffer the abuse, bullying and systematic degradation of my existence that I’ve seen so many go through.
The disappointment I feel is immense that so many on here are walking away, ramming their own understanding of the scriptures down people’s throats as if their interpretation is the only one that counts and judging “homos” as “sinners” and “going to hell” blah blah blah……… Let me help you with that, YOU ARE NOT GOD!! Yes, you can politely, even enthusiastically, explain your belief and why you don’t agree with someone’s sexuality..
…but whether they go to hell or not? That isn’t up to you to deliver that judgement.
Saul/Paul wasn’t exactly the sweetest and most compassionate person…….anyone know how many of God’s people he persecuted, hunted down and killed … Yet God chose him for a task and now we revere him…… Anyone think God was so rigid in applying the commandments that he sent him to hell?
Do we all sin every day? Absolutely. Will we all sin tomorrow? Definitely…….
I see alot of negativity on here but where is the love? Not just by words, but by deeds?
The rush to condemn is shocking but where are the open arms, the open hearts……. Has anyone condemning “homos” actually thought about saying “I don’t agree with how you’re living your life and this is why…… But hey, you’re welcome into our church anytime?”
Anyone thought about saying “I don’t agree with your lifestyle but you’re welcome into my life and share in my love for God….. And I love you” …… Or do you think telling a homosexual you love them means you might catch “the disease” too? Lol
I’ll wrap up with two short points…… My wife is Black African. It wasn’t that long ago that certain people were using the story of Noah and Ham to say that mixed race couples were sinners……… Anybody think that now? Maybe in a few years time some of you might well be packing away your “homos are sinners” banners and unfurling new ones ready for the new hate fashion?
Finally, I spent 16 years in the army……I didn’t fight for God, Queen and country minus the homos………and no soldier does.
I lost a very good friend in combat…….. He put himself between a family of eight Iraqis and a roadside bomb (IED) and sadly lost his life saving others……. He was a “homo” and the bravest, most compassionate and selfless man I ever knew……….
Does anyone really think God sent him to hell?
I would ask you all this…… Before you judge, criticise and condemn people……. Look inside yourselves first and ask if you really can claim to have the love of God in your hearts…….or maybe you need to work on it?
Peace and love 🙂
True Church of Jesus Christ says
Does anyone really think God sent him to hell?
No. Gay people are not outside of God’s grace, nor is Homosexuality a sin. Christ never once speaks against it.
The only thing that would see your friend to hell is if he did not believe in Christ. And while the way he died was admirable, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Only one thing saves, and that is TRUE belief in Christ (and frankly I’d say most Christians don’t even qualify in 2017).
Kieran says
P.S apologies but at 0200hrs my brain skips slightly……
The point I missed about Saul/Paul was yes, he was blinded for 3 days then repented……but had he just woken up one morning, seen the light and preached the word of God without repenting first….. Would God have still sent him to hell regardless of the good he did?
If God is so inflexible and rigid in applying the laws then does that mean a gay doctor who saves countless lives every day is going to hell because he /she never repented for being gay?
I think my own personal view is to live the best possible life I can by loving and believing in the father the son and holy spirit with all my heart and soul…. and to love my fellow human beings with all my heart and to treat all as I would wish to be treated.
Will I get everything right? Of course not, but at that point I would hope someone will help me on my way with love and compassion…… Rather than hanging a big sign around my neck with the word sinner written on it.
The final decision is entirely up to God.
Dave says
Jeremy wrote:
If you just take the statement as a whole, it makes no sense.
Actually, it makes perfect sense to me….and probably millions of others.
People are complex creatures, and psychologically and emotionally, it is nearly impossible to separate what a person does from who a person is.
Not really. It’s pretty easy in some cases. Perhaps you are challenged in this area. I will pray for you.
This is especially true when a person is the way they are because they were born that way.
People are not born in such a way, that they are COMPELLED to have intercourse with members of the same sex. If they have no choice to no act on their lusts, then we dare never criticize rapists who act on their lusts. After all, men were created to lust after women, right? So if they take out their urges on a female, even if she’s refused his advances, we have no right to criticize the rapist because, ‘they were made that way.’
Dave says
Lots of comments here. The apostle Paul was the most prolific New Testament author, perhaps used by God more than any other apostle. He spoke on this very topic so it’s only fitting to share his thoughts.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
Jeremy Myers says
A long quotation from the Bible isn’t really helpful. I have read, studied, and taught that passage numerous times, and agree 100% with what is written there, so I am not sure what you mean by your quotation. Are you disagreeing or agreeing? Either way, what does your Bible quote have to do with this article?
Bible explanation is always better than a Bible quotation.
Dave says
Jeremy,
I can’t win. If I quote a small biblical passage, then I get accused of taking it out of context. If I provide the full context, I get this. The only conclusion I can come to is that you believe I should never use or quote the Bible at all. However, I believe I should follow Jesus’ example, and He quoted the Bible more than I, you, or anybody on this blog. In saying that I don’t intend to be abrasive or rude.
You wrote:
Are you disagreeing or agreeing?
Well, if I answer this question, you’ll get mad because I have to quote the bible again. The prophet Isaiah wrote:
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
unquote….1st person here being God. I agree with God here, that His thoughts are above my thoughts. I share my thoughts sometimes, but my thoughts aren’t inspired, God’s are. And God’s thoughts expressed through the apostle Paul are inspired, mine aren’t. This time, rather than be judgmental, using my judgement, I shared the thoughts of the apostle Paul that clearly and directly related not just to some of the topics you brought up but also the direction of some of the thread. In light what some have shared, I believe it may help some. God’s word is living and active, sharper than any 2-edged sword. My words are not, and are less likely to have helped. To answer your question, I disagree with some of what you wrote here, but rather than express that, in this instance I felt it better to share Paul’s thoughts on some of the topics in your post and in the comments/thread as I thought that would be more helpful and more fruitful than my thoughts. Some of these things, the Holy Spirit has to work, and that’s much more likely when the word of God is shared.
Debra says
Wow Jeremy, you stirred up a hornets nest!
I’m pretty sure I ‘get’ what you are saying, and agree that we should love gays and homosexuals, without judging them. The truth is we are to love everyone, not just gays and homosexuals, without judging them.
God is Love. Our only point of reference for love is what we have experienced as humans, which more often than not it is conditional. It takes humility to admit we lack understanding, and trust to allow Love into that place within us. We can only love another to the degree that we love ourselves, and that is intrinsically linked to unconditional acceptance of both parties. So it does not surprise me there is such diversity of opinion.
Gay marriage is topical globally at the moment. What concerns me about it is not the right or wrong arguement, but rather how it is being used as a tool of the enemy to deceive people. We do after all live in a spiritual world.
I would be interested to hear your take on grace. Can you direct me to a post on that?
Jeremy Myers says
I have written a lot about grace on this site. You can use the “Search” area near the bottom to find more.
I also have a new Online course on the gospel in which I teach a lot about grace. It’s “The Gospel According to Scripture.”
Chris says
Wow – I haven’t had coffee yet, but was so compelled to read this article and comments section. I identify as a Catholic- Buddhist if that matters, and have been interested in theology for all my life. One of the hardest things I recently had to decide was to officiate my (gay) brother’s marriage to his partner of 20 years. I am against calling their relationship a marriage, or so I thought because why not call it a civil union for legality purposes, as the argument for it goes? But I realize they have love between them. They are no different in their relationship than any hetero married couples. I officiated their wedding after all.
I can’t wait to see what your teachings on grace are like.
Jeremy Myers says
Welcome, Chris! I think you made the right decision on officiating that wedding. I have written quite a bit on this site about grace, so feel free to just use the search box down below.
brentnz says
My view on this one is to follow the example of Jesus in how he dwelt with the woman caught in the sin of adultery he addressed the sin issue that was the trap set by the pharisees.Jesus protected her from those stoning showing us his love and compassion for all sinners.He didnt condemn her for her sin as he knew all of us are sinners he without sin cast the first stone.He said to the woman do they condemn you and she said no and he said neither do i and then told her go and sin no more.Its the same with any sin it needs to addressed it doesnt mean you dont love the person.brentnz
brentnz says
We had this discussion at church should we allow homosexuals in leadership i was the only one who spoke up and i had prayed during the week and confessed all my sin before the Lord i certainly had no right to condemn someone else for there sin.But the fact is that it needs addressing that was my question to the people presenting the proposal.Is homosexuality a sin the people taking the discussion would not address it as they knew scripturally that it was and clearly had no answer on dealing with that issue and tried to detour around it.
But we are talking Gods house it would also be just as wrong if i was unmarried living with my girlfriend and holding a leadership position in the church.The pastor needs to say sorry but you need to step down until you are marriaged what you are doing is fornication sex outside of marriage its not Gods best seems old fashioned but that is the right way by all means keep attending church if you want to live that lifestyle we dont condemn you for that but dont expect to be involved in ministry.There are consequences for our actions.The main reason that we overlook alot of the sin is that is not politically correct to speak of sin today because the world wants to continue its sinful practises it doesnt want to hear that there are consequences for sin they want to do whats right in there own eyes.But the Church is the one place that needs to make a stand for righteousness and holiness otherwise there is no difference between us and the world the difference should be like night and day.So we should feel compelled out of love to speak the truth so that they can be set free from sin.The bible also warns us in ezekiel 3;18
18″When I say to the wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.
I still think that love the sinner hate the sin is still just as relevant for today but it needs to be done the Lords way through the holy spirits leading so that the holy spirit convicts the person and leads them to repentence not a word we use so much today so that they can be set free from the bondage of sin.
brentnz says
Jeremy i am surprised you never countered my argument Up till now the above view has been my understanding however things change when the holy spirit speaks.He amazes me because its always new never old and it reveals why we often misunderstand scripture in the case of the woman caught in adultery.We see how she was condemned to die and by the grace of God Jesus came to her rescue that seems familar to all of us then when they were alone he said to her Go and sin no more.This is the point we misunderstand prior to there meeting it was all about her death when she encountered Jesus something incredible happened he turned a death situation into life situation so from our background as sinners we still in our thinking and understanding dwell in the darkness our minds are closed to the truth.In effect what Jesus was saying to her and us is chose life and dont look back that is what he meant and that is the walk we need to live for him.That to me was a revelation it was always there but hidden.Does it change that we need discipline in the church that we need rules and guidelines for our actions no we still need those things.But does it change how we view non believers and even ourselves definitely its not about sin but its all about choosing life and living.He also revealed some other interesting things on salvation so i might mention those on the once saved always saved discussion.Jeremy just want to say i really appreciate your website because i have not really discussed issues like this and it really is making me press in to the Lord for answers to some of those really difficult questions.regards brentnz
main says
The reason why they say “hate the sin” because so many believe it’s a grey area, which so many sins, ours sins, is quite clear in the Bible.
Matthew 5:13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Rebecca says
We live in a therapeutic culture that seems determined to do away with sin. Adultery and every form of immorality has been re-classified as sex addictions. Addictions to drugs and alcohol are classified as diseases, not the results of deliberate actions. And guns are now perceived as a greater evil than the murderers pulling the trigger. Whatever the sin may be, there always seems to be a way to excuse, redefine, or minimize it.That determination to separate who a person is and what he does has also infiltrated the church. rue love does not demand willful ignorance. You wouldn’t simply pretend that a cancer patient was suddenly free from his disease. Nor would you ignore his affliction in hopes that it would go away on its own. The same holds true for sinners—the most loving thing you can do for them is not to blithely ignore their sin or excuse it away, but to confront it. In other words, you cannot possibly love a sinner if you don’t also hate his sin. I’ll grant that the way we confront sin can vary depending on the nature of the sin and the spiritual condition of the sinner. You might need to show more gentleness with an unbeliever blinded by his own depravity than with a fellow Christian who ought to know better. And even within the church, we need to be measured and considerate with how we confront one another, yet still bold and clear enough to preserve the purity of the Body of Christ.
In fact, church discipline is an essential part of protecting the church’s purity (Matthew 18:15–20). John MacArthur, while commenting on that passage, points out:
A Christian who is not deeply concerned about bringing a fellow Christian back from his sin needs spiritual help himself. Smug indifference, not to mention self-righteous contempt, has no part in the life of a spiritual Christian, nor do sentimentality or cowardice that hide behind false humility. The spiritual Christian neither condemns nor justifies a sinning brother. His concern is for the holiness and blessing of the offending brother, the purity and integrity of the church, and the honor and glory of God. [3]
In response to those who see the confrontation of sin as inherently unloving, John adds:
In the eyes of much of the world and even in the eyes of many immature believers, such action is considered unloving. But discipline given in the right way expresses the deepest kind of love, love that refuses to do nothing to rescue a brother from unrepentant sin and its consequences. Love that winks at sin or that is more concerned for superficial calm in the church than for its spiritual purity is not God’s kind of love. Love that tolerates sin is not love at all but worldly and selfish sentimentality.
To preach love apart from God’s holiness is to teach something other than God’s love. No awakening or revival of the church has ever occurred apart from strong preaching of God’s holiness and the corresponding call for believers to forsake sin and return to the Lord’s standards of purity and righteousness. No church that tolerates known sin in its membership will have spiritual growth or effective evangelism. In spite of that truth, however, such tolerance is standard in the church today-at all levels. [4]
Some people appeal to God’s unconditional love as if that trumps or invalidates His other attributes, most notably His wrath. But as John emphatically argues, such sentiment amounts to nothing less than a popular form of idolatry.
Belief in a God who is all love and no wrath, all grace and no justice, all forgiveness and no condemnation is idolatry (worship of a false god invented by men), and it inevitably leads to universalism-which, of course, is what many liberal churches have been preaching for generations. Salvation becomes meaningless, because sin that God overlooks does not need to be forgiven. Christ’s sacrifice on the cross becomes a travesty, because He gave His life for no redemptive purpose. Not only that, but it becomes apologetically impossible to explain the common question about why a loving God allows pain, suffering, disease, and tragedy. Removing God’s holy hatred of sin emasculates the gospel and hinders rather than helps evangelism. [5]
We should love sinners. We should hate sin. And we shouldn’t divide those two truths into separate categories. Our hatred of sin should manifest itself in a love that warns sinners—compassionately, but no less clearly—of the dire consequences their sin demands. Short of that, how could we ever claim to truly love them?
Carl says
You who are spiritual should restore the one trapped in sone sin
So you tell them sin is trangression of law and that they are dead to law and so dead to sin justfied under grace by faith in Jesus and what they think is sin is them thinking they are violating a commandment they are not obliged to keep that in Gods eyes no longer exists for they are dead to the law a d Jesus took it away smeared it away so its no longer in existence they stand because they once they beleived in christ were sealed with the promised holy spriti the deposit gauranteeing the inheritance
Notice they didnt earn that inheritance and are dead to sin and have grace for their weknesses whixh is the reason they think they arw trapped in sin they think they should be overcoming sin by their own deeds of what they so in the body instead of knoqing that christs sypmThises with their weaknesses a d they are not sinning by delighting in them in his grace for them to be free to love and live sanctified by truth made holy that is by belief in the truth that they are dead to sin and live to God for christ took away all sin
They are under grace to delight in burning which is not sin!
True Church of Jesus Christ says
We are absolutely supposed to hate sin. And we are absolutely supposed to love one another, without qualification.
So the saying “Hate the sin, love the sinner” is quite apt. Perhaps the issue most have is the word hate?
Can Christians hate? Sure. Hate Satan. Hate his Sin. Hate evil and darkness. That’s fine.
It seems as if the author’s biggest issue isn’t with the saying itself, but how modern Christians execute the two commands. His issue isn’t with hating sin, it’s that Christians do not engage the second part, “love the sinner.” Instead, they use this as a justification to hate and judge others, and of course never themselves.
But does that mean the saying itself needs to change? No. It is our hearts that need to change.
But changing the saying, we are saying that these commandments are simply too hard to follow, and because we are weak, because we are sinners, because we love to hate and to judge, we just need to stop saying “Hate the sin, love the sinner.”
And I’d disagree. The saying is fine. It’s our hearts that need to change. And change they must if even Christians of today wish to see Heaven, for there are few Christians out there today that truly believe in Christ. They claim they do. They wear a cross or have a fish on their car, but they don’t truly believe, because true belief manifests itself in our daily lives, our words, and our deeds.
Yet, it doesn’t. It doesn’t manifest itself at all. Modern Christians have become petty, hateful, spiteful, bitter, and nothing like what Christ commanded. And you think you’re going to Heaven?
Carl says
Whatever is not of faith is sin
The commands of law are not of faith
We are dead to law abd dead to sin and under grace for our weaknessess of being human free to be exactky as we are in chrust justfied who smeared away all law commands so they no longer exista in Gods eyes
We live to be free we have life from God to be weak to be lusting to delight in sexualitiy we have as weaknessess
Or should it tell you live by flesh mind of law??.
Be a law command rebuilder and sin ?
Naomi says
I had heard this saying so many times as I was growing up. I tried to live by it, but something just didn’t add up. The Bible speaks out against hate, doesn’t it?
So I decided to find it in the Bible, because I had always assumed that was where it was from. I thought getting context would help.
When I couldn’t find it in the Bible, I turned to Prof. Google for answers.
That’s how I wound up here.
Your article,post, whatever it is (I’m new to this kind of thing) gave me some of the answers I was looking for and helped me find the problems with the biblical logic I was taught.
Carl says
They mix up weakness of flesh with sin
Jesus TOOK AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD BUT THEY IGNORE THAT and ignore that WE ARE DEAD TO SIN!!!
Jesus shared in weakness of flesh syntheses with it
It weakness of flesh is humanity now free fron law commands
cos jesus smeared them away and they no longer to God exist
Law comamnds written down no longer exists!!!
Sin is trangression of law we are dead to law and alive to God under grace
we are under grace free to be as we are in our burnings justfied to delight in them fully
Lol God is not saying dont have sex!!
Hes not saying have babylon ritual marrige either lol
Hope fully in the grace being given to you ( present tense in the greek) by the revelation of Jesus christ as obedient children
Do not be conformed to your former ignorance that you (present tense )desire
It is saying don’t go backwards i back to trying to obetain a righteousness by flesh works of law of you trying to not sin by what you do, instead grow in grace by knoweldge of the truth and be set free
For you are dead to sin by what christ did and jistfied to live under grace fully for all your weaknesses which are not sinful for your not under law but under grace
DK says
Homosexuality is completely incompatible with Christianity.
Christians believe in a Creator, one who created us and gave us a beautiful gift that is procreation.
For people to defile it with homosexuality or any of the other 200+ perverted attractions, and claim the ‘born that way’ hoax is just despicable.
For Christians who have been so emotionally attached to the issue that you’ve started letting radical gay propagandaists become your new God, I hope you find the light again.
Lana says
I have a problem with calling a person a sinner or looking at their sin. How can we possibly love someone we have already judged! He’s the judge, not me…..by his grace we are to see everyone as he sees them! With huge love – like, he would have died for that person if they were the only person left on earth, right?
Just my thoughts…thanks
Carl says
Your in rebelłion against the gospel of Christ
And have a Reprobate mind of flesh
You never SUBMITTED TO THE LAW ANd SEEK INSTEAD TO JUSTFY YOURSELF BY IT AS IF IT MAKES YOU RIGHTIOUS
LOL
Carl says
Not you lana
Dk
Duane Stewart says
My view point on this, as a number of other things, has changed over the years. I have learned it is healthy to question what I believe, and why I believe it. The old saying “The bible says it, I believe it, that settles it” just doesn’t cut it anymore, and for that I am truly thankful. That put me on a journey of discovering Jesus, apart from my preconceived religious framework, and has freed me up to just love. Of which I still fall painfully short on a daily basis, but I am learning.
As for topics like homosexuality, it is not my job to decide if it is right or wrong, I don’t eat from that tree anymore. I fully trust that, if needed, my Father can make that judgement call, and frankly I’m relieved that I don’t have to. It is not my job to change the homosexual, nor to try to convince them that they need to change. It is simply my job to love them, with no agenda. And that requires relationship, again, with no agenda. Again, I fall painfully short.
We have a tendency to focus on the sin, a lot more than Jesus ever did. His tendency was to love, and that love was frequently focused on the outcast, you know, those with the “big sins”. In actuality, when he did point out sin, it was typically aimed at the religious folk who took it upon themselves to call out the sin of others.
When the prodigal son came home, the father didn’t show him what he did wrong or what he needed to change. His father didn’t see any of that, he just dropped everything and raced out to embrace his son with a love that only a parent knows. We are created in that image.
We are to be known as followers of Jesus by our love for one another. If we think our catoragization of “one another” is determined by our ability to distinguish right from wrong, then I think we miss the mark. Unfortunately, this is why the “world” thinks the way they do about christians. The church will never be effective with this “Us vs Them” mentality. Maybe it’s time we follow Jesus.
Sylvia says
Well said. You are a breath of fresh air through a tired argument.
I used to have Christian couples come to me about their sex problems (I was easy to talk to and had a lay ministry at the time). What got me was they are all vocal about homosexual sin, when they were not even having sex with their own partners.
Thank you so much for speaking out. Now that I have found it, I will be visiting your blog a lot!
Carl says
They thought the duty to command of law still exists
Any sin paul listed was trangression of law
Paul taught that were have been set free and are dead to law its a conundrum difficult to understand
But if Jesus sets you free from sin your free indeed
Paul recieved the truth that Jesus smeared away all the written command of law
Now we are commanded to live by faith in grace for our weaknesses the very weaknesses that weakened the law cos we being we could not obey the laws commands
Now we are dead to law abd have no obligation to obey what was written in it for Jesus did it all for us so now we can delight in our weaknesses all in love mind
Fir example murdder is of the devil
But as fir sex its weakness we under grace and told to delight in it
It is what we think is wrong sinful but infact is our human weakness
As for guilt in our cos cience we are told to rely upon christs blood
But its not sin as sin is trangression of law and we are dead to law so dead to sin
Now whatever is not of faith is sin and law certainly aint of faith
So We have to grow in grace and knowledge of truth of this amazing freedom we have that to our flesh minds is imposible but in spirit is the way of freedon and full life and so we must grow in and have faith in this astounding revelation of grace
Sadly What the church teaches is the complete opposite of the truth of grace recealtion in st pauls recealtions
The churches error is because of the mind of flesh they are stumbling in the revelation fo grace by the stubling block of what we are dead to! The OT law commands!!
David A. Chase says
I looked this up because I am in the middle of a theological argument over the nature of marriage in accordance to God and his will. I don’t hate gay marriage, although I don’t condone it.
While I would happily dance at the wedding of a gay friend and celebrate with them, I would not, in a theological or philosophical discussion support the position. Although I also explain why. All my gay and transgender friends understand and we have wonderful, friendly, discussions on these topics all the time. They know I respect them, and their decisions, but have my own views. They also know that I would jump to their defence is necessary. Mutual respect is formed becasue we both stand by our positions and are unapologetic for out beliefs while embracing other worldviews with love.
My problem arises when people pervert the Word of God to support Gay Marriage. To clarify, the Bible does not condemn Homosexuals, it condemns Homosexual Activity, in the exact same way it condemns Heterosexual activity, that is sexual actuivity outside the bounds of marriage.
An exception to this would be Paul in Romans 1: 18 – 32, in which he declares Homosexual Acts to be proof of separation from God, but he is an exception. Here is an excerpt:
Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Still, it is God’s place to judge, not mine. On the other hand when Christians, in the name of “acceptance and love” openly condone sin, then I have an objection. They are actively leading people astray. There is a difference between condemning someone for their lifestyle, which is the promotion of hate and shuts down discourse; and telling people that their lifestyle is in accordance with God’s will when it is not. This is not much different from saying “You can’t rape your wife, she is yours to do with as you please.” or “beating up (insert group here) is okay, becasue they are (insert slur), it is God’s will.”
While I agree that we should not go around spreading hate, we should refrain from leading people astray. As Christians we should lead through example, with love, but keeping to his Word; in the world, but not of it.
Much of the conflict in the Church has to do with Christians not wanting to upset others, or to lose membership, as so they kowtow to the prevelant social forces. Ironically, I have found that many, but not all, of the Secular Liberalists who decry Christianities condemnation of their acts, are the quickest to attack ANYONE who disagrees with them. In the face of such hatred, people turn from the love of Christ and harden their hearts, in turn attacking anyone who questions them.
This was an excellent article. We do need to love, but we also need to keep to God’s word and live the just life, regardless of what others do. Don’t bring up the sin of homosexuality, but if asked your belief, lovingly explain that sex was designed by God for the creation of life and untiy between a man and woman. You can do so without condemenation, and show Christ’s love for all.
David
Jeremy Myers says
You need to check out the podcast episode I published today…. (Good timing on your comment!)
It’s Episode 105 … on “Epistolary Diatribe.” I know, it sounds boring. But it isn’t.
Rod Pinder says
Obesity was a great example, Jeremy.
I hate my inclination toward gluttony and the obesity that results from it. With more or less success, I strive to overcome that inclination and behavior. I don’t mind if you hate it, too. In fact, I invite you to hate my gluttony. I would perceive it as an indication of your love for me, because that trait/behavior is damaging my overall well-being (shalom). And even if there are physiological causes, like my metabolism or other hereditary issues which contribute to my weight, you are welcome to hate those with me, too. I want something better for myself.
St. Thomas Aquinas wisely said something like, “To love someone is to will his/her highest good.” (See https://www.facebook.com/rod.pinder/videos/10156901608693492/) If you apply that definition, you will hate with me those things that restrict me from enjoying my highest good.
There are many other sins with which I struggle. You could substitute any of them for gluttony/obesity in the first paragraph and it would hold true. Unlike some people I love, I am not inclined toward homosexuality, but if I were I would hate it as much as I do my gluttony or my inappropriate heterosexual lusts or arrogance etc. If you love me as your brother in Christ, please hate those things in me which are counter to the abundant life God calls us to enjoy. Please don’t excuse them or endorse them. They harm me. As my brother, please love me. I love you, in Christ’s love.
Terry Romano says
We humans are all flawed, even though we were ALL created by God. To disrespect His creations is to disrespect the Creator. It is appropriate to love all of his children even though we know they are all sinful. None of them (as opposed to all of them) would be flawed or sinners if God’s purpose for us was perfection.
Perfection is within His grasp, but not within ours, only because He did not choose to make any of us perfect. It isn’t evidence of God’s powerlessness that he couldn’t make one perfect human being in the 7 1/2 billion attempts still alive, not counting those that went before us..
One needs label things only if there might be some doubt about the contents. Labeling has no purpose if the contents are known. It is hardly “labeling” someone when the flaw being described is common to all persons. It is merely a reminder to all of us that we are the same way.
We do not have the mental capacity to understand God’s purpose in making us all imperfect. But we do have the capacity to correctly perceive that we are all sinners. He gave all of his sons and daughters a cross to bear, not just Jesus. We hate carrying the cross (the apparatus of our demise, sin) and are anxious to put it behind us.
Angelo Ramirez says
Sodom and gomorah… was destroyed for the sexual sin they did.. how could u say that homosexuality is not a destructive sin yes they we destroyed for it. Bottom line is we should not like sin period. Who are we to judge what sin is less or greater than other. Sin is still sin.
Jeremy Myers says
According to Ezekiel 16:49-50, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was a failure to be hospitable. It’s not about sexual sin at all.
Carl says
None were rightious i.e they not believers in the true God
If they were enough rightious by faith they the two towns would have been spared
All have sinned remember and all justfied by faith in Jesus christ
Timothy Gregory says
Their displays are the same as that of the displays of all previously oppressed peoples.
Coddling is not what they seek. They seek a world that does not divide one person from the other. They are more apt to fight adultery than a modern day hetero couple. It is an individual journey rooted in one’s own convictions vs spiritual desire to seek God. To seek Christ. To seek peace, love, understanding, an end to suffering for as much as one individual can work towards this.
Joseph says
This may have already been mentioned in the comments, but I would like to encourage fellow believers and readers to read Matthew 19:12 Yeshua speaks of us “Eunuchs” (Gay folks) and does not condemn! Be VERY weary of anyone who calls themselves a believer and chooses to overlook that crucial passage. I found this scripture one night weeping asking the Lord to take my sexuality away because I thought it displeased Him. That could not be farther from the truth! We are called to be the men and women whom God has not given a spirit of timidity, but of Love, power, and a sound mind! We have to be courageous and bold, not yielding to the idle doctrines of men, which bare no fruit and end in suicide, but doing the HARD work of actively seeking the truth! Indeed I find it amazing that the Very people many “Christians” condemn, God is using to reveal the hypocrisy of men, who say they love but are just pharisees! If you TRULY loved gay folks, you would listen and increase in understanding!
Carl says
I also Joseph, have come to conclusion born that way has to mean homosexual as the outcome was no desire to have hetrosexual marriage .
Having gone through all possibilities of what born that way meant it has to mean born with no inclination to marrry hetero/ opposite sex way as babies dont marry lol.
Dolorosa says
I don’t think you know God’s word in the Bible: Romans 1:26: ] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Jeremy Myers says
I know God’s Word quite well, and have studied and taught on Romans 1 multiple times over the past several decades. So rather than quoting a Bible verse at me, your actual question should be “How do you understand Romans 1:26?” Better yet, you could use the search area at the bottom of the site to see what I might have taught about Romans 1.
Perception says
I think it’s more beneficial to see the ”sinner” objetively as the one who do a specific sin AND not as a way to describe his identity.
Also people are not their behavior.
So i invite you to see other as human being just as you , and love them no matter what.
Witch does not mean that you appreciate and accept their behavior or ”sin” .
In a way we all are sinner , witch just mean that we all have commit sin during your life. But it does not define us.
Lets take a little exemple : did you already lie to someone ? or not tell them everything ?
Does it make you a LIAR ( as a part of your identity ) ?
If you think YES , think again because this would mean that for you Everyone is a LIAR. ( just like what we saw with sin and sinner )
I just want to tell you that your perception and belief about yourself will influence you behavior.
So what will happen if after one lie you define yourself as a LIAR ?
Even if you lie a lot , are you a LIAR or did you fear something ? is it something else ?
Carl says
We are taught sin meant to miss the mark
If you look at the definition in greek it also means properly means to be without share i.e with no inheritance.
We know that the law accused us was aganist us and some of you once lusted in your heart were by law accused as being adulterers some homosexual
But you were washed sanctified by faith ni christ Jesus
Given inheritance by grace sealed forever with the deposit gauranteeeing the inheritance of eternl ife
You cant get it be adultery or being homsexual mind so dont think living that way gives it to you
Lol i warn you
Carl says
Oh neither by doing those things either can you get the inheritance
Lol i warn you again
Carl says
Those accusations were smeared away by christ who blotted them out smeared them commands of law that you must continually do them , all smeared away
And as you know the only way to recieve the inheritance is by believing in being sanctfied by belief in the truth i.e that Jesus is the son of God .
There IS NO OTHER WAY TO HAVE SHARE.
LOL
Steven Spacil says
Jeremy,
While I agree with some of what you wrote I disagree with the majority of it.
My father was an alcoholic and I HATED what that did to him. BUT, I still loved him because he was my dad. Some people I’ve told that have had difficulty grasping the concept, maybe it’s something you have to experience 1st hand to understand.
For me and my feelings towards the LGBTQRSTUVWXYZitelifestyle, hate is perhaps too strong a word. I dislike, no, I don’t care for it. But I really couldn’t care less what people do in their private lives and at home, please just don’t be blatant about PDA’s just like I expect heterosexual folks to be.
What I HATE, and I think what most people get upset with the LGBTQetcs, is their attempts to FORCE the acceptance of their lifestyle upon the entire country.
I’m okay with the legal, discrimination part of it. But that’s it. When someone’s religious beliefs take a backseat to someone’s sexual preference in a court of law, it has gone way to far.
You said that a lot of “Christians pay lip service to the idea that “We are all sinners” but we reveal that we do not really believe this when label someone else a “sinner.” ”
I don’t know what kind of Christian you are or what “Christians” you’ve been talking to; but I assure you I do not place myself above anyone in the freedom from sin department. To the contrary, I chastise myself daily for my failings and pray to my Father in Heaven for His guidance and help in doing better and slowly but surely I think I do. As do the vast majority of Christians that I know, some of which happen to be gay.
We have a saying in our church; “We need to live in this world. But we need not live of this world”.
Part of the test of our earthly life is to demonstrate our willingness to follow the Lord’s commandments, all of them; and to show that we have the strength and determination to do so in order to reserve our place in Heaven with Him. And that means resisting all of the enticement and evils of the world that the adversary places in front of us.
Maybe I don’t “hate” the sin of homosexuality, et al; but their certainly ARE sins that I do hate and I believe rightfully so because they cause great harm to those that commit them, to those they are committed against, and to our community and country overall. And unfortunately I think homosexuality is one of those sins causing great damage to our society although it is one I care less about than other, more serious issues we face. Like dishonesty in our Congress and Washington, D.C. in general. And no, I am not speaking of President Trump but of the group trying to destroy the moral fabric of our nation.
But that’s a whole other can of worms!
Patty says
Read Romans 1, There are a lot of sins covered. Also homosexuality is the spearhead that will eventually cause Christianity to be outlawed in this nation. Anti Semitism is on the rise, we are next. Don’t think it won’t happen. In July of 2020 scotus will take on the issue of trans genders having all protections. It’s the first time that an emotion will be protected under the law. Like abortion, it’s considered a woman’s right to privacy gives her the right to kill a child. So does that mean my privacy allows me to kill adults? No, just saying
Carl says
Murder is of the devil
The one born of God does not continue in sin for he has the promised seed in him and obeys rightiousness in christ the seed
not works of flesh judging others by law
Romans was written to explain how christ had set isreal which we are grafted into free from law now the command to not have homosex does not exist to God as christ smeared it and all law written law of moses away on the cross.
Stop sinning by your attempt at rebuilding law!
Carl says
The beast and the kings of the earth are being lieberal now in order to impersonate grace
so as to decieve men into Catholcism
This is why the antichrist is being favourable to gays in order to decieve the world into catholcism
Jesus allalong had Justfied gays b faith in himto live with their weaknesses under grace
So the devils catching up for he know he has but a short time so now hes gettin his papal antichirst to talk liberal but he still and always will be antichrist and still teaches his doctrine of devils
Beth says
Jeremy, thank you so much for your article. It really helped me sort out why that statement has always appalled me. I appreciate your thoughts and your biblical support.
Aidan McLaughlin says
Wow!! Big response to that tweet Jeremy. My input on the subject is that maybe we need to view sin in a different way. Redifine it. Most of us are aware of the Jewish definitiin of missing the mark. The archery derived definition. But my redefinition is “Dysfunction”. This bares out with our born state. Born in dysfunction. And it would help us to relate to both the agnostic and atheist. A baby when born and just abandoned would simply die due to dysfunction. Unless your lucky enough to be Mogli from jungle book! Lol. The animals that looked after him where more sympathetic to his needs compared to “Christians and their empathy towards sinners”. So my solution might be to bracket the word sin with the word dysfunction. And engineer solutions to the dysfunctions. Which will lead us to the feet of jesus. As he did call himself the way. And might I make a guess at the outcome to the firstr reply to your tweet. That was despicable and unhelpful and will bite him on the bum soon enough. In Northern Ireland we have had politicians lambast homosexuality and soon enough after been caught with their trousers down. Or in this case dress as it was female. The outcome of the whole affair nearly took down a government lol. Our politics in Northern Ireland are hilarious if not tragic. Tragedy and comedy. A common pairing.
Aidan McLaughlin says
Another reply on here stated about following the ten Commandments as best they could. Good luck with that one. It near sounded like they were attempting to earn redemption. I may be mistaken. The law and commandments are there to bring us to our knee, s with the impossible task of complying. If you can 100 percent comply then yer a good un alright! Keep up the good works! Lol Me personally, I will continue sinning mightily along with Martin Luther and his mate. ?
Tracy says
We are ALL sinners (not just gays) and yet for God so loved the world He gave his one and only son… that’s the basis of Christianity.. God loves you
Ryan Rutledge says
We are all sinners, therefore we love the sinners no the sin just like everybody else that we know.
Randall Murphree says
So when you say, “If you love someone, you love all of them — even the lifestyle choices that might have resulted from sinful actions and behavior,” you’re saying I must love the lifestyle choice of the alcoholic that destroys an addicts family, I must love the serial killer’s lifestyle choice to murder innocent people, I must love the drug addict’s lifestyle choice that destroys his own life. You’re saying I must love sin. No, you need to read the Word of God again. When the Bible tells us that God hates sin, it behooves us to be godly — and hate sin.
Carl says
We are dead to law and so dead to sin because christ took the punishment for sin and then smeared away the written code of all the commandments of law and put us under grace to delight in our flesh weaknesses such as burning with lust byt its better to have sexual union than to burn
As for sin , God says believe in his son JESUS christ name and love one another as he loved us
And have grace for your weakness desires lusts delight in them be human be set free to live!,
Dont talk law lists violations its an insult to his sacrfice
Patty says
First of all, Ghandi wrote that. Second of all look at Leviticus 19:17-18. If we show love toward our brother we need to talk to them about their sin , not beat them over the head with our bibles, just talk to them out of love. It’s our responsibility to invite everyone we can to Gods kingdom, to help them and to plant seeds. So talking to a homosexual is no worse than talking to the kid who stole a candy bar from the store and lied about it. Be sure to use only what Jesus said, quote scripture appropriately, and always refer to verses that deal specifically with the issue. It’s not our place to judge, it’s our honor to bring as many people as we can to the harvest!
Carl says
Tell them that through faith in christ they are dead to sin and under grace not law
Not having to overcome their weaknesses of flesh but free to delight in them to indulge in them under grace
Or it be you teaching them wrongly rebuilding law works a false teacher !! telling them to be trying to overcome sin that they are already dead to in christ anyway
Lol
David T. Glass says
Proverbs 30:5-6; John 3:10-21; John 14:23-24
Deborah rennie says
Mark, I have always respected your music. In searching how to contend with the LGBTQ debates in this presidential election, I see a huge difference in the sins you mention in this article and the sin of homosexuality, yes, sin. That’s the point. I have sin that o hate, bit before God, I agree with Him that’s it’s sin and I need his help to cut it out of my life. That’s what I was redeemed for. The problem is that God calls sexual perversion ( homosexuality included) also a sin, but our culture wants to call it a lifestyle, when God calls it a deathstyle.
Scripture also encouraged us to help others face their sin, restoring them gently, and being careful that our own sin doesn’t trip us up. The church is called to difficult things, like discernment. Love 1 Cor 13, includes that we don’t celebrate evil, bit rejoices with God’s truth. That’s what real love is! No one said it would be easy!
Carl says
We are dead to law
Not under written code
Sin is trangression of law
but you talk of sin
We are dead to sin by faith in christ now we have grace for burning we are free from sin!!
You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free
Lol
JESUS TOOK AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD
DONT YOU GET IT YET.?
Nora Dirkx says
“Happened” on your website when researching the foolish quote “love the sinner hate the sin” and I absolutely love your heart, your approach. I am a mother of 11, 49 yrs old, 31 yrs in Christ out of Catholicism (much of it in the bondage of fundamentalism…the GARBC) and am renewedly BACK in that freedom in Christ from my initial first 7ish yrs in Christ before I married a narcissist…after milling around a bit more on your site (read the one on punishment) I am sooooo excited to look into your writings. As well I am now in a lifetime partnership with a woman which has my blood relations and fundamentalist former fellow church members in an uproar. So your comment about LGBTQ people being the primary focus of “hated sin” really caught me because I see that too. It reminds me of the Scarlet Letter…and the negativity and judgementalism, self righteous, holier than thou of most of my relatives (I am the youngest of 14 and 12 of us got saved all around the same time) really stands out now that I am “out” and OUT of that virtually cultic form of Christianity. I can already so relate to the little bit of your journey out of religion and into the freedom in Christ that I have read. Love to you for all you are doing, and love to you as your TRUE sister in Christ, Jeremy!!! Thank you for doing this.
Carl says
Sin is trangresson of law
We are dead to law a d therefore dead to sin
The obe born of God does not contonue in sim this way for we are now pruified fron all sins once we were born of God by beleiving in Jesus christ
Now sin is whatever is not of faith
It is no longer a violation of written codes of commandments in the law for we are not under law but under grace
Paul said he did not judge himself
That requires faith in the fact sin is not what you do anylonger its not based upon deeds that violate law
The written laws commands were smeared away by Jesus christ on the corss so to God the laws commandments no longer exist
This is the same for beleivers and unberlievers alike
But unberlievers are guilty of sin indeed for they do not beleive in Jesus christ and if they never do before death they will be judged not according to the law of moses but according to christs word were they could be blessed or cursed
For us sin is now what is not of faith
Law is not of faith and paul did not judge himself
For he knew he had been set free fron sin which was no longer about deeds of the body for he knew that christ had dealt with sins according to things you do works of law , so if you understand the revelation of grace you know the truth and you are set free
So now amazingly the sin is our judging ourselves according to law thinknig we gave sinned but how much more shall the blood of christ cleanse our conciences from dead works? Dead works of law that we are dead to but we sadly still judge ourseleves for committing .
W eneed to grow in grace !!!!
And knowledge of the truth.!!!
The church literally has no truth in regards what sin is now sin is whatever is bot of faith law is not of faith!!
The church acts as if All the commandments of the law is still obligated to do
When it all the written code moral or otherwise no longer exists!
Carl says
Continued form my last post
Paul said it is now we live by faith in Jesus being set free fron sin and we have his grace for all our weaknessessOf being a human being such as lust which he called burning and he said its better to have sex than to burn , he used the word marriage for sex but he did not mean get a a ritual marriage of the law of moses because we are dead to the law and rebuilding it is law breaking
Now ritual marriage is state kings of the earth in league with vatican babylon marriage
There shall no longer be the soubd of a bride or bridegroom in bablyon when Jesus judges it when he will destroy it with great violence
Carl says
Re ladt post on babylon state rirual of marriage
If you have had a state babylon ritual marriage have no fear but rely upon the grace of Jesus christ you are not judged ever.!!
Only corrected.
But correct you views to acknowledgement of the truth!!
As for anyone else well they need to believe in Jesus christ anyway to recieve life and not be judged in the last judgment
Carl says
What i notice is that when John sats we should not sin
He resolves it by saying the blood of Jesus cleanes us from all unrightiousness
Now we know we were made rightious by faith in Jesus christ nit by anything we do
And we know whatever is not of faith is sin and we being dead to law are dead to sin
So this gives me sone clues as to what john meant when he said we should not sin because john did not mean we should not sin by keeping law he meant by not being in faith and ge wrote this to those who couldnt be judged ie justfied believers so he meant tge life of faith scenario but assured of protection by the blood
Tim says
I could be wrong I am trying not to judge but it sounds like you’re riding the fence. I mean no disrespect. The word says we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. The difference between a believer and a non-believer is repentance. The Scripture says that if we repent our sins are washed away as far as the east is to the west. There is no scripture that says we are to love the sinner and hate the sin. But we are to love what Christ loved and hate what Christ hated. We can never condone sin. We must teach the law so that we know right and wrong. But we also live under Grace. We must humble ourselves and love each other as Christ loved us. But never forget Christ never condoned sin!
Andrew says
We also have to recognize that even if God does “hate” (which I don’t think He does … at least, not the way we understand it), He doesn’t anywhere tell us to hate.
This is incorrect – [The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil;] Pride, arrogance, the evil way, and the perverse mouth I hate = Proverbs 8:13
Jason says
I appreciate and hear what you are saying regarding “hate the sin, not the sinner” and find your message about it to be right on target and powerful. I also agree that a homosexual couple can and do often love each other, however I wonder; is or can sodomy be an act of love? I have no room to judge a gay person (or anyone for that matter and I’m not just saying that as a cliche) however it does occur to me that the physical activity of homosexuality is not an act of love, as non-homosexual sex is often not an act love but often rather lust or sometimes even worse, destruction or violence. Sodomy, whether between two men or a man and woman, or in any other circumstance, with my understanding from my point of view of the Gospel, is a sin because it is destructive both physically and spiritually which I think is why God calls it an abomination. Gay people are not abominations. God loves gay people just as much as He loves me and everyone. Similar to what you said about sins that are destructive and cause suffering such as murder, child abuse, rape, etc.; sodomy also may be considered extremely destructive and harmful to our relationship with God and He must know that and He must be letting us know for that exact reason, maybe. If you consider the act of sodomy, is it an act that results out of one of or any combination of the following ways of being: lust, desire, vengeance, violence, shame, guilt, punishment, rage, pleasure, destruction, deception, abuse, etc.? Sex between a man and woman who are bonded together by God can be an act of love and creation (although, as I mentioned earlier it is often not and therefore is often a sin as well, similar to sodomy). Again, I’m not saying that I know this to be true but I am asking and suggesting that it might be why the Scriptures say what they do about it. Again, I am a sinner who is not one little speck better than anyone else and in fact I’m pretty sure there are many homosexuals who are in better standing with the good Lord than I often am. I hold no ill will, distain, disgust, resentment, or judgement towards gay people. I think we all have our trials and obstacles and we all fall well short of perfection. Grace is our only hope and thankfully our Father in heaven sent His son to live and die and be risen up again so that we would be saved. His grace and mercy extends to all and He will not let single one of His children be eternally separated from Him. “But many who are first will be last, and the last, first.” Mark 10:31
God bless each one of you. Please do not regard my words as anything but coming from love and in seeking truth. Remember, He loves us more than we can imagine no matter what.
Rebecca says
I feel you are trying to do God’s job for him. It is not our place to judge, it is God’s place. God doesn’t need your help in judging other people. I think you will be surprised after you die and God asks you why you thought you knew so much when you didn’t know anything at all. I hope for your sake you have an answer by then.
I think if you really, honestly cared what the Bible has to say on the matter, you would realize that God holds adultery (including divorce & remarriage, which is adultery) at a higher standard than he does homosexuality. Committing adultery is breaking a commandment. Loving someone your own gender is not. It’s just thrown in there in Paul’s letters along with premarital sex and other things that are just frowned upon. Using Christianity as an excuse to hate people is not Christian at all. Jesus loved prostitutes and tax collectors and murderers. You really think he draws the line at someone loving someone they shouldn’t? Please.
Hillary says
I’m not a Bible scholar. I don’t know much. I have some read comments to this man, which I have gotten almost extremely sad about how angry people are hating and ranting at him. I only know a few quotes the few scriptures I found about love of God. I don’t know if I am going to help or make things worse. Bible says, “But God demonstrates His own Love for us in this; While we ere yet still sinners. Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8 I only say that agree or not with him, a lot of comments to him, of hate is not of God.Yet a lot you are cursing at your brother for an old wives tale, that’s not even in The Bible. Seriously…Are you sure that’s God; not just from your head, and not from your heart? “You are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with The Spirit of the Living God, not a tablets of stone but, on tablets of the human ❤heart❤Why are you so angry because he said to Love? “For God so Loved the world, that He gave His only Begotten Son, that who ever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” John 3:16. So many comments full of hatred to this man even, the lake of Fire on him… WOW..Good luck!!! Hope your own words don’t turn on you. I couldn’t never win in a debate here because it’s a basically battling a losing game for anyone to fight over God’s Word like this. But. Why? Are so many angry at him to say The word Love…stop there. Just a point… In all the quotes, scriptures, Bible verses all you are so smart but… almost all you are forgetting to mention the word LOVE- ❤1 Corinthians 13:1-3 ❤…………❤ “If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong, or a clanging cymbal. If I have all gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysterious and have all knowledge, and if I have Faith that can move all mountains, but have not love. I am nothing….If I give all I posses to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not ❤ Love ❤….I gain nothing. ❤ ………”But Abideth Faith, Hope, Love; And the Greatest of all these is – Love 1 Corinthians 13:13
Gk says
..that was an interesting read about what should we hate as Christian but really we should Love instead and take the route to align the world back to what God’s purpose for the fallen man☺️
Me says
I used to be one of the ones that would say something like “love the sinner hate the sin” but I now I know that its simply a self righteous thing to say. You articulate perfectly why. Thank you!
JT Hamm says
The main issue I have with this is when the person asks…Whats wrong with changing a definition of marriage ….. Really? I guess you define it differently than me, because Marriage is defined as a union between man and woman UNDER GOD.
God would not condone marriage between man and man or woman n woman, so it can not be. Changing the definition takes God out of the equation, an thats what most Liberals want and fight for.
Onyx says
Wow… Wow… Its so very rare to have somone shine a light on our hate like this.
Thank you so much !!!
I can’t stand how anytime time a gay friend finds out I’m a christain they suddenly look like they want to run ….. When all I want to do is make sure they know I love them and could care less who they date… I’m trying to get training in “reconciling the church and lgbtq community” ..it gets discouraging becouse I somtimes feel alone in my beliefs but I know God has called me to this… Your post is a blessing . thanks again
Rachel says
We are all sinners. If you are in denial and don’t like to be called a sinner then you don’t know scripture. What you are writing is your own feelings not the word of God.
Barb says
Excellent, Thank you! Need to work on myself.
Walt Seats says
Hey Jeremy,
Thanks for your reflection. I agree, we all need to spend more time and energy focused on loving one another in the multitude of ways love may expressed. And I have a couple of different takes. 1) The experiences I’ve had with groups using the term ‘sin’ are generally in the context, we ALL are sinners, not we’re righteous, but you are a sinner. Bible believing, Christian communities usually acknowledge all of us are sinners in need of God’s saving grace. 2) My familiarity with the term love the sinner, hate the sin has been primarily to de-emphasize antagonism directed against individuals; especially brother and sisters in faith, and emphasize that it is immoral action that damages the community. Again, this discussion is not at all applicable unless we are talking about a community of believers — brothers and sisters in faith who have professed a common walk and subscribed to rules of that community. A discussion regarding non-believers is totally different and not subject to the same standards.
Thanks for sharing, and Gods blessings
Brian GC says
The Bible is for believers and therefore written for those who have come to grips with the reality of their own sin and of sin in the world (believers do take their eyes off the Saviour and can commit what the Bible would describe as abominations, but that is another issue).
The Bible overwhelmingly aims its rebukes against sin in believers, and it is to such people the catch phrase ” love the sinner but not his sin’ has merit. We who are sinners are loved by God not because we are sinners but because we have believed in the one who redeemed us from our sin. We are able to love because God first loved us.
We must never make light of sin whether it is our own or the sins of others, including unbelievers, and we are not to condemn sin in others because we too are sinners: but if people flaunt their sin by making an issue of it, then we who know the price of redemption must make a stand for God and his condemnation of sin, including homosexuality.
Then we are indeed to love the sinner whilst ‘hating’ disapproving of his sin.
Daniel says
I can call anyone a sinner because they are! I am, you are, every single human is. So hate the sine love the sinner is true for every person.
Grace says
Hi Jeremy, I am honestly very, very confused!
Gordon says
I regret to inform you, it’s rarely the homosexuality itself that Christians hate. Far from it, and I’m being perfectly serious here. That’s not what is hated about the gays.
It’s the demands for attention, the demands that we coddle them, that they attack and demand we change our own moral codes to suit them, that they sic heathen courts against us, them causing distraction from realer issues, associating the sign of Noah with a sex act which Noah was a victim of, demands that we let them rule us, directly contradict our own standards we hold for leadership, have leaders who hide their affiliation with them until they habe a vote in a church counsil assembly, dress obnoxiously seeking attention, demands that we recognize their relationship to be exactly what was not prescribed by God for them, openly tempting children into experimenting with it,
but most of all, the open and unapologetic PRIDE with its registered trademarks, commercialized slogans, media and corporate bandwagons and constant bombardment of propaganda you’re contributing to.
Pride is how we all got here in the first place. “Did God really say…?” said the snake.
Imagine if all of this effort were put to fighting adultery instead of making more sets excuses to commit it!
Timothy Gregory says
Their displays are the same as that of the displays of all previously oppressed peoples.
Coddling is not what they seek. They seek a world that does not divide one person from the other. They are more apt to fight adultery than a modern day hetero couple. It is an individual journey rooted in one’s own convictions vs spiritual desire to seek God. To seek Christ. To seek peace, love, understanding, an end to suffering for as much as one individual can work towards this.
james warren says
In Jesus’ day, “sin” simply meant “missing the mark.”
Jesus also indicated that forgiveness is reciprocal: we are forgiven to the same extent that we forgive others.
“Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”
The Apostle Paul wrote “Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
We forgive others on the basis of grace, not works. We refuse to require somebody to earn our forgiveness. We grant it as a gift, just as it was granted to us.
curmudgeon - today, it seems - ; ) says
Dear sir….i wish people would stop saying, “stop saying”! (tongue in cheek there,—a little, anyway). I think I agree with what i think you’re trying to do, but for folks who love the Bible, there are too many holes in the logic you present. (your bit re: hate the sin. Right out of the Bible, that one. Romans 12 for one i.e.)
I think readers who will most like this article are those who already think your way.
ironic, that’s also true of so much of what one sees in conservative, anti-“progressive” polemics. i.e. prose that seem not intended to persuade and hard to imagine they would not arouse negative responses.
John Spielman says
Though the exact words “ love the sinner but hate the sin” is not in the Bible, the idea is certainly Biblical!
Read Jude 1: 22-23
“ have mercy on some who are doubting: save others snatching them out of the fire. On some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothes tainted by their immoral behaviour”
So yes hate the sin but LOVE the sinner! For we are all sinners doomed to perdition except that we have been rescued from that future hell by the sin atoning sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross- through repentance of our sins and faith in Jesus as God incarnate and our sin atoning Saviour.
John Spielman says
Well though the EXACT words “ love the sinner but hate the sin “ isn’t in the Bible, that statement is a Biblical truth confirmed in Jude when Jude writing what the Holy Spirit of God instructed him to write stated “have mercy on some who are doubting, save others snatching them out of the fire, and other show mercy with fear hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh” Jude 1:22-23 NIV translation!
Now we are all sinners doomed by our sins to eternal perdition, unless we repent of our sins and come to faith in Jesus as God incarnate and our sin atoning Saviour but don’t try and muddy the water -“ if we deliberately keep on sinning despite knowledge of the truth, there no longer exists for us a sacrifice for sin but only a fearful expectation of fire which will consume the enemies of God “ Hebrew 10:26-27
Nate says
You can’t preach the gospel if there is no need for a savior. There is a line between loving them and condoning their sin. I mean this about any sin. Where do you draw the line?
Danny Olson says
I hear what your saying. I’m a devoted Christian and was one whom said that very thing until I came face to face with my own sin. God took me on journey and after months of seeking Him for the answer, I received it. I’m grateful for God being merciful and good to deliver me from my sin that I had for so many years hidden.
One of the things I learned was sin is sin and all sin separates us from God. So, to point out someone’s sin is really not the problem because we are all sinners. There is a sinner saved by grace (Jesus) that has went from condemnation to justification and in the process of purification, no longer ruled by sin.
Or, you have a sinner, that is under condemnation, in need of a Savior.
My concern is what your sins are. Jesus never went about asking people what their sins were. God sent Him to be the sacrifice to pay for our sin so we could receive justification, to be redeemed.
See, for me, I just simply love people and care about their eternity and their happiness here. God is able to give us what we don’t have to transcend our flesh ruling our lives through Jesus.
Look Into your own heart and make sure it isn’t as pious as the ones your speaking of. For if Love is a great word for you then speak love and don’t allow others to speak judgment.
Everyone will be judged soon enough so I agree with you…. love people.
Kenneth Gray says
Hello,
I just read in the above article about love the sinner hate the sin. There is a error in this article. I read that there is nowhere that God/Jesus says to hate in the Bible.
That is in error.
John 12: 25
Jesus says as an answer to Philip and Andrew
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Jesus spoke for God. So Jesus saying something is the same as God saying something.
Yes the term “hateth” means hate.
This is just one of many times God tells us to hate someone or something. Try Luke 14: 26. That tells us to hate our family members and your own life to be worthy of to be a follower of Jesus. Thanks,
God bless you, in Jesus holy name, Amen.
preacherdog says
There is certainly plenty to “hate” in this world when it comes to iniquity and wickedness. I do want to point out that Jesus used of the word “hate” in the passages you have cited is a case of hyperbole, or exaggeration, with the intent of driving home the important point that commitment to the things of the kingdom should outweigh all other pursuits. The passion we have for the things of God should make all our other interests look like acts of hate and neglect. And I have heard scholars speak of the use of the word “hate” in these instances as meaning to “love less”. In any case, Jesus frequently used the literally device of hyperbole to make a point, and that’s what He was doing in these instances.
Anna says
Amen… Love not hate… Listening not judgment.
“Understand this, my dear brothers and sisters: You must all be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry.”
James 1:19 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/jas.1.19.NLT
Timothy Gregory says
Hey, I think you got it! Are you in a group? Because my entire sphere of family think I’m crack-pot crazy because I vehemently believe the best things in the Bible, even though I do love the Bible entirely (hi§tory guy here) is the most important commandments. There’s 2. It’s not so complicated but the entire world (from historical perspective to current views) seems to over look the fact that Christ commanded that one should love God with all their hearts, strength, minds, soul, etc… (paraphrasing but there does exist those who mock folks who do not quote accurately) and obe should love thy neighbor as they would love themselves. What is going on with the rest of the dog and pony show called “the way things are”!?
Anyways, I loved your article. I’m hetero btw, not by choice, perhaps just by design, but more likely to change one day due to my lack of luck in latitude and longitude.
Timothy Gregory says
Here is a unique sin. It is sin and sin lay between the sinner and God.
If your speaking point on God is other’s sins and the judgement thereof, then congratulations. You must be Christ, returned.
But. On the off chance that my sarcasm is wrong (and it is) then I would venture to impart to you that self reflection and growing in silent meditation rather than open condemnation would be more beneficial for the whole of the species. Good day to all.
Suzanne says
Yes love is God and God tells us we are all sinners.
But he also says we can be Overcomers and become saints covered in the blood of Jesus Christ. We must learn to hate our own sin and to be able to root it out of our life. Getting closer to Jesus Christ we will become Victors over our sin but also we will see our sin damaging effects on others. Is a pastor’s job to love the person enough to want him two study the Bible so the Holy Spirit can convict him of his sin that hurts him and others! Preaching tolerance for sin is not the Bible gospel!
M Black says
Love the sinner, hate the sin is good in concept and can be gleaned from scripture. However, there is no verse that explicitly states. Love the sinner who routinely violates any sin described in scripture. Hate the sin because God hates sin. Our love for God should overcome our bias regarding particular sins. If not, then it is probably fair to say we need to examine ourselves. Certain sins (proclivities) are attached to each of us. And some more than others. It is another way for us to realize we can not live this life under our own power. And it should keep us humble. We need the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome these sins and cleanse us so we can live a life that is holy and acceptable unto God.
Jeff the Chef says
Your views blow me away and impress me as real, thoughtful, insightful Christianity. Regarding the comments, as I’m sure you know, nothing could be more Christlike than being condemned by religious people.
Mike says
Christianity is not a religion, it is a lifestyle based on our conforming to His image. Not a title but a lifestyle. If I have to tell you I am different or wear attire stating I am different, there is a problem. 49 yrs ago I was as guilty as anyone to condemn and speak judgemental words toward others. This was mainly due to the fact of growing up in a small church community that felt the same way. The only message taught is “get saved, go to Heaven and take as many with you as you can” Plus always judge the person who had never entered the Kingdom of God calling them sinners. Interestingly, the ONLY judgemental words from Jesus were directed to the religious leaders of the day. The only way to reach people is to accept them as Jesus would. Not accepting their lifestyle but as a human being, looking for the answer you possess. Jesus’ only message was the Kingdom, that was it. That was the only teaching he gave his disciples but over the years the massage has changed. If we want to reach others we need to return to the Kingdom message and rid our thoughts of a religion message which Jesus never taught.
Paul says
Not a fan of the statement “love the sinner hate the sin” However pointing out sin starts with my own in my witnessing to people on the street. Love is enough when people know that Jesus came to save sinners (all of us) from our sins. Paying a price with abuse and torture none of us come close to relating to. Because the people had violated the laws of a righteous God and continue in those sins to this day. Grace is a free gift of God yet like liberty it comes at a very high-cost people must know what laws were broken to appreciate what Jesus Christ did for them on the cross, Who Jesus Christ is that he came down from heaven to do what he did. Knowing that sin would continue and he did it anyway because he loves us. Leaving the commandments of God out of preaching, witnessing, or even a conversation about sin is a disservice to the listener. It is Holy Spirit who convicts but they have to know enough to make a decision that sin has no place in heaven.
Sergio Oliveira says
I love your remarks about this. Wonderful and awesome teaching.
Myra says
So what you are saying is that God should hate his sin and not the sinner. God can’t sin!!! Because God hates the sin in us all but he sent a redeemer for us to repent. Sin is not measured: murder, lying stealing, homosexuality etc is all sin in his eyes. If we are to take on the form of our creator we are you repent of all sin and work towards living a Holy life. The word of God is RIGHT and it is the same yesterday, today and forever more. It doesn’t change because you dont like certain parts of it, or it convicts. We are all sinners and we need to repent and pray for strength to stop sinning.
Eric says
Who has a ‘favorite’ sin?
Who believes that hating sin means that we don’t hate our own sins?
Some give good fruit (words) and others give bad fruit. We can love good fruit and hate bad fruit. That does not mean hate the tree, it simply means hate the message that the tree gives. Do not be lead astray or tempted by the message. Love your brother and pray that his message can turn to God’s message. We have a choice – Believe men or believe God.
“The sin of pride is called ‘healthy self-esteem.'” (Do not boast and understand that we all have sinned and need to turn from sin. Be ashamed of your sins.)
“The sin of gluttony is called “’Respecting the wife’s cooking.’” (You can respect your wife’s cooking while also not overindulging.)
“The sin of laziness is called “’relaxing after work.’” (Relax after work, but keep God in your heart day and night.)
“The sin of greed is calling “’planning for the future.’” (The perfect man will give all of possessions to the poor and trust that God will provide. Be generous and give freely without expectations. A family should share everything and love eachother.)
“The sin of national idolatry is called “’patriotism.’” (Do not put your country before God. Do not even put your child before God. Do not even put yourself before God. God comes first.)
“The sin of hate is called “’warning them of the fires of hell.’” (Expose the darkness for what it is. Have gentleness and be loving when giving warnings of consequences. Do not be frustrated.)
“The sin of anger is called “’standing up for what I believe.’” (Do not be angry or frustrated. Believe not in your understandings, but only the words of Christ.)
And so on. (Go on.)
Jesus said to remove the plank from your own eye before attempting to remove the splint in your brothers eye. Understand before giving understanding. We are all children of God and, as children, we should not rely on our own understandings of things. We should rely on the words of the LORD.
Chad Redmond says
There is no real definition of the word “marriage” as far as mankind is concerned. Marriage is and was an institution arranged by God himself. Anyone who thinks or tries to convince others likewise has no understanding of the word themselves. (Yeah, I stopped reading your little post there). This world confuses love with lust and condemnation with hate. So do you.
preacherdog says
I speak graciously, but I love the author of this article but hate the article itself. I personally think it’s completely ridiculous to attempt to dismantle this common statement, because there is actually nothing wrong with it at all. The author has created an issue that isn’t really an issue at all, unless you want to fabricate one. This statement is actually the best and most potent way to communicate to people that you can indeed care for a fallen human soul but not accept that person’s lifestyle and practice. And no true and humble Christian when employing this statement is ever doing it in denial of his own moral deficiencies. By the way, homosexuality is NOT just any sin. Yes, it falls in the sin category, but it is of more grievous act of iniquity. Even the Lord Himself speaks in the OT of “greater abominations.” The Lord didn’t just lump all sins in the same crime category. Sorry, but I’m going to stick with this familiar and common “love the sinner but hate this sin” statement, because there is NOTHING wrong with it at all. It’s what God has commanded His redeemed to do as they proclaim the saving Gospel to lost and dying sinners.
Jennifer Nyffeler says
Is “love the sinner, and hate the sin” in the bible? Well, it does describe how the Pharisees treated people. As they made it their job to keep an eye-out for people’s sins and then call them out on it… and they were good at it too!
And in the Pharisees minds, it benefited them as well. As they knew that it made a glaring comparison for everyone standing around them to see. It was an opportunity to show everybody how righteous they were – and how much they were NOT like the sinner they pointed out!
So the problem with loving the sinner and hating their sin is that we end up doing that too when we point out another person’s sin… instead of doing what the bible says, which is; to be humble and have the attitude that we are the ones with the greater sin (a log in our eye) while treating others as tho they only have a speck.
We have not been granted license to hold people’s faults against them. In fact we are to love our neighbor (family, friend, stranger or even enemy) as much or more than we love ourselves. We are to love with a love that covers a multitude of sins. NOT a “love” that holds their sins against them.
So the simple fact that we label the person we are talking about as a “sinner” indicates that we are not acknowledging our own sin. As we may be sinning differently than they are, BUT we are just as guilty of it! Envy? Gluttony? Lying? Lust? Pride? Anger? Arrogance? Hate? Profanity? Strife? Greed? and etc.. The bible even tells us that if we say we have no sin we lie and do not practice the truth. So maybe it’s time to start hating our own sin??… then we won’t have time to hate someone else’s!
In the 2nd Chapter of Romans the first word in most translations is “Therefore”. Therefore is a very important word often overlooked by many bible readers. Therefore in this instance means –> that what you just read in chapter 1 is “there for” the reason that you are about to read in chapter 2… and that is; in this world there will be sinners all around you, committing all kinds of sins. BUT when you make yourself the judge of their sins you condemn yourself because YOU sin too!
Hating is a powerful thing… so hating their sin means that I have to always keep their sin in mind… which means I am unable to see beyond their faults. And therefore when I look at them, their sin WILL be the 1st thing I see.
But God’s love is a transformative love. It’s what brings people to repentance. Jesus lavished His love on sinners… He did not limit it. When sinners are drawn to God by His overwhelming love, it is then that the journey of change begins. We need to remember that we were once sinners that have been saved by grace alone, not because we all of a sudden became sinless.
While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He did not start loving us completely when we started sinning less. NO! God loves us completely despite our sin. Then it is that love that draws us to Him.
Jimsie says
My mind boggles over the ignorant, undereducated, self-righteous comments of the “Christians” who have replied here. “If that’s anyone’s idea of Heaven, who do you have to know to get into Hell?” Wow.
Lyons Club says
You dont need to know anyone i decided not to make hell so you will be expected home tomorrow at a decent time and i mean you should be a born again man without a mistress wife or baby
Curtis McFadin says
Without malicious intent, you are not sinning. No matter what the “Bible Authors”said or what anyone now says.
Outstanding writing and understanding. Great truth which is most likely too complex for simple, damaged, indoctrinated, or lazy minds.
I don’t know if you have personal experiences to share from, shared in so many others experiences and retained the knowledge, if you studied relentlessly, or all of the above – what I do know is you are sharing wisdom that is good for everyone to ponder and respect. Thank You!
Bobby Scott says
My question to you is this; if God’s word is forever settled in heaven, and we know it is, you error in re-defining, setting the rules of marriage, correct?? You have nothing to back up same sex marriage. God sanctified one man, one woman to enter into this covenant, not two of the same sex. I love a lot of things but I don’t marry them. None of us can justify our sin. Accept that it’s sin sir and ask God for forgiveness.
Jessica Erin Lewis Sanchez Simmons White says
I WILL NOT BECAUSE I LOVE THE SINNER and please refer to oh sounds like a slang word, JOHN 3:16 I said MY DAUGHTER WILL BE FREE AND I PAID seven point three Trillion dollars for Her Father ISRAEL to be a NATIVE AMERICAN TODAY
Just a kid says
I think you should stop mixing your beliefs with the bible.
Thomas says
i feel like many christians simply take issue with the worldly notion that if one “disagrees” with ones lifestyle they therefore “hate” the individual, which is a rather vitriol word. Homosexuality in itself is not sinful, but rather the sexual act between same sex individuals. Also, do we just push aside scriptural definition of marriage as mere suggestion, and instead between “those who love each other”? To me it seems Christians dont hate the individual, nor homosexuality in itself..but rather the things they do have control over (i.e. marriage definition and eventual marrital sex). I have my faults, just like 100% of mankind, that i know my family hates about me that doesnt harm anyone else (i.e. sexual perversion and excessive alcohol consumption)..but they still wholeheartedly love me. long story short, just because i dont agree with you doesnt mean i dont love you as a brother..unfortunately many in this world would seem to think that is an expression of hatred
asdf says
Because Christians have accepted Jesus and he sanctifies us. We’re all sinners, but we’ve accepted the cure and want others to know why they need it too, we already know we needed it. We SHOULD hate the sin and love the person and if we believe in Jesus’ power we believe he has given us a new heart. It’s like the whole hypocrisy judging – we’re not forbidden from judging. We can obviously tell when someone still loves their sin, of course we can call them out on it – unless we’re still living in sin too…Which means we haven’t been sanctified and there’s a whole bigger problem…
DTobaben says
I wish everyone in the world, when they think of of others, would think of love first. “If we judge others we have no time to love them.”Mother Theresa. Right now this world is full of hate, so much of it. To write about love is something we all need to hear more of. I loved your article. People take truth and twist it to their own benefit. And let’s face it some people can’t handle the truth is hard to hear. I sincerely hope you continue writing your articles from the heart.
EMMA JOHNSON says
I hear all you say in this article. Yes, We as Christian can be or appear hypocritical sometimes but this does not change the truth as clearly stated in the Bible.
ALL sin is what caused us to be separated from God. Isaiah 59vs1-2, Romans 3:23
God’s love provided a saviour in Jesus coming to die paying a horrible price for our reconciliation. John3:16
We, all of us, must not take the cross and the suffering of Jesus for granted by justifying or even promoting wrong doing; so if God says it is wrong doing it is in God’s eyes. This glaringly can be seen is the agenda- to try to normalise sin.
If God says he hates something; anything, we must take this seriously and seek help to run from it not live in it.
What two men, or two women or even a man and a woman do in their bedrooms might not ‘seemingly’ hurt anyone but if Almighty God says what they do is outside of God’s law, then He knows why.
Its rebellion against God’s way that is SIN. Yes, God is protecting us from ourselves. He made us for His glory, not for us to do as we please and be slaves to the dictates of our fleshly desires.
We are meant to rule, to govern to have dominion over the earth as His creation after His likeness.
While we are in the physical body we will struggle because our sin nature.
Now we cannot overcome any sin without God’s help, or just by striving in our own strength.
We can’t and will fail over and over.
This is the whole point of why Christ Jesus came, to take the blame for our rebellion against God on himself, taking our ‘beating’ and paying the ultimate price, giving up His life in a most painful and shameful way, willingly, out of love for us.
Then there is a trade for His sinless righteous life.
It is henceforth our responsibility ( including all battling various kinds of unlawful(in God’s opinion as stated in the bible) sexual desires, to hear this message of love just like I did in my teens struggling with lust and over sexual sins.
I was convicted I too was a sinner though I was brought up a Christian in a god-fearing home, where we went to church and did all the prayers but this did and does not help make one acceptable before a holy God
I repented of my sin and rebellious nature.
And followed the steps below
1. Accept it. Guilty of rebellion against God’s law and ways, that I am a guilty & a sinners.
2. That as a sinner I am condemned John 3:17 and spiritual death and punishment is the danger if they refuse to accept Jesus attonment. Romans 6:23
3. Accept the love and sacrifice of Jesus on the cross
4. Now, an act of faith; verbally confess Jesus as their Lord and Saviour knowing they can never save themselves. Romans 10:9&10
We can be assured of His forgiveness and acceptance.
John 1:12-13 We are children of God now.
Revelation3:20 We now have Jesus living in us because we have opened the door of our hearts to Him.
Now….
When Jesus lovingly did not condemn the woman caught in adultery, He did not just say
neither do I condemn you, he said Go and sin no more.
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”
Jesus expects us to turn away from sin. We must now, learn how to do this.
its all in the bible…
For more information on this
you are welcome to email me
Much love and grace, as received.
E.
xx
Dee says
I’m shocked at how many proclaimed Christians have missed the entire point of the writers post. Almost all of you have focused on the entire “homosexuals and loving them” and why it’s wrong according to the Bible and even went as far as posting scriptures to prove your points. What the writer, I believe actually intended by this post is, not one sin is greater/worse than any other sin. All sin in God’s eyes is still a sin. No where in the Bible does it tell us to hate anyone and no where in the Bible does it tell us to be the judge of other’s sinful actions. We all sin, period, and all sin is wrong according to Biblical teachings.
Jennifer Nyffeler says
Agreed!! (mostly anyway!) Is “love the sinner, and hate the sin” in the bible? Well, it does describe how the Pharisees treated people. As they made it their job to keep an eye-out for people’s sins and then to call them out on it… and they were good at it too!
And in the Pharisees minds, it benefited them as well. As they knew that it was an opportunity to show everybody that was there how righteous they were – and how much they were NOT like the sinner they pointed out!
So the problem with loving the sinner and hating their sin is that we end up doing that too when we point out another person’s sin… instead of doing what the bible says, which is; to be humble and have the attitude that we are the ones with the greater sin (a log in our eye) while treating others as tho they only have a speck.
We gotta remember that we have NOT been granted license to hold people’s faults against them. In fact we are to love our neighbor (family, friend, stranger or even enemy) as much or more than we love ourselves. We are to love with a love that covers a multitude of sins. NOT a “love” that holds their sins against them.
SO, the simple fact that we label the person we are talking about as a “sinner” indicates that we are not acknowledging our own sin. As we may be sinning differently than they are, BUT we are just as guilty of it!!! –> Envy? Gluttony? Lying? Lust? Pride? Anger? Arrogance? Hate? Profanity? Strife? Greed? and etc.. The bible even tells us that if we say we have no sin we lie and do not practice the truth.
In the 2nd Chapter of Romans the first word in most translations is “Therefore”. Therefore is a very important word often overlooked by many bible readers. Therefore in this instance means –> that what you just read in chapter 1 is “there for” the reason that you are about to read in chapter 2… and that is; in this world there will be sinners all around you, committing all kinds of sins. BUT when you make yourself the judge of their sins you condemn yourself because YOU sin too!
Hating is a powerful thing… so hating their sin means that I have to always keep their sin in mind… which means I am unable to see beyond their faults. And therefore when I look at them, their sin WILL be the 1st thing I see.
But God’s love is a transformative love. It’s what brings people to repentance. Jesus lavished His love on sinners… He did not limit it. When sinners are drawn to God by His overwhelming love, it is then that the journey of change/growth begins. We need to remember that we were once sinners that have been saved by grace alone, not because we all of a sudden became sinless.
It comes down to this: God is capable of bringing people to Himself and transforming their lives… so we don’t have to lessen our love towards them because we think they will get the idea that we love their sin too. God loves us completely despite our sin! THIS is how we are supposed to love others too!
Sharon says
God is love 1 John 4:7-21 The term “love” has been so twisted and perverted in this world ! We’ve had “Free love” in the 60’s and 70’s where anything goes and that risqué lifestyle has continues our society bows to the creature than the creator which is God . That is also called Idolatry changing the beauty in what God has made and turning it inward self glorification and self love . The Bible calls it Lust one of the seven deadliest sins !Now we have today you can’t define my marriage! We are partners in love and you have to accept it even if it goes against your conscience and your holy convictions ! Is that love? You don’t like Love the sinner but hate the sin ? Why love is in there or is because you don’t like the word sin ? I’m a sinner I’m flawed and have imperfections . The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked Jeremiah 17 : 9-,10 We Christians are called to judge righteously that’s love ! We know how painful and destructive our sins are but we also know that Love covers a multitude of sins 1 Peter 4:8 Yes Christians can be judgmental and also hypocritical ! I also struggle with the battle of my sinful nature but through my love for Jesus it doesn’t become a heavy burden in my heart to carry !The word Sinner appears 63 times in the Bible ! Jesus was sinless ! God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteous of God in him 2 Corinthian 5:21 Jesus drank the cup of sin in the Garden of Gethsemane .He was made to be sin for us so he could die for our sins and pay the price with his precious blood ! Jesus’s sacrificial love ! The Bible also says If we claim to be without sin,we deceive ourselves and the truth is not us 1 John 1:8 Only Jesus can set us free !
Jimzie says
The people replying negatively to your piece seem not to know what they’ve just proved.
Roger Lambert says
Organized religion is a toxin that flows throughout the Multiverse. All that organized religion does to everyone is just to brainwash you, control you, and make a lot of money. Free yourself from spiritual slavery. Just say NO to organized religion. Be spiritual, not religious.
Eileen Fisher says
I forgot to ask. What is your definition of love?
Phil says
Thanks for the blog.
Not sure if I agree but am really enjoying re-examining my position.
It is too easy to pay lip service and not join the struggle.
Thank you.
Jon Saboe says
For years I have been advocating “Love the sinner; hate what sin does to the sinner,” as an alternative.
As for the word “sinner”, we are all sinners.
Fonda Faye Page says
I want to thank you for the information you gave me. I’m going over my sunday school lesson and I have to say this was very helpful. I just wanted to say thank you 😊.
Mary J. LeBlanc says
First of all. In the beginning God created Adam and then Eve. God wanted man and woman to procreate and populate the earth. Also sex is supposed to be between a man and woman. Anything else is an abomination to the Lord. His words not mine. And last, We can point out their sins in love. God also said that.
Yvonne Bowles says
Jesus hates sin if we are transformed by the Holy spirit from the inside out according to Romans 12:2 one will understand hate the sin love the sinner, it breaks God’s heart and mine too to think and know that a man who is born with no womb can be confused about his sexuality and this comes with no condemnation but out of the love, all sin is sin and if something evil or bad happened to us we should run to God to heal us not try and change our gender or allow Satan to lie to us that we are born this way and we must keep on sinning knowing its not right. When we love God we choose to be obedient and we ask God to help us live in the way he describes in his living word, resist the devil and he shall flee from u. Surely there are exceptions like slow metabolism or depression some chemical imbalance by all means visit doctors but don’t change your sex come on don’t let Satan make u believe your own lies u create out of your own rebelliousness and sins of the flesh get real the truth will set u free. We all sin and fall short from the glory of God. Keep sinning is like vomiting and eating it up or looking in a mirror smashing it and forget what you look like, may God open our spiritual eyes
Don says
Jeremy do you love yourself? Do you realize that you are a sinner? do you love to go against the God you say you love by breaking his laws? Do you even realize that the bible teaches that even while we were all sinners, Christ died for us? Do you realize he paid an incredible price for you to be forgiven of your sin? and if we never had sin to begin with we wouldn’t have needed the love of God through grace to be saved from sin?
you may not like the term love the sinner, but hate the sin…. yet that’s truly how God feels when it comes to the matter, so simply your opinion doesn’t mean as much as His does.
instead of trying to align the world with how you feel on a matter, you’d be better off to learn how to align with how God feels on a matter.
I say this out of shear love for not just yourself but anyone who read through this completely senseless opinion. people please, if you’d like to know more about God, read your bibles, and spend time in prayer with the living and true God. Be blessed.
Parker says
I respect your opinion, and it actually made me pause a little and say hmmm.
I will no longer say I hate a sin! I do believe that. I will love all! But to say my sins are the same as someone who blatantly chooses to live in sin with no repentance is not the same as my sin that I confess and try to turn away from.
I think you’re missing the point of asking for forgiveness and then repenting and turning away from the sin.
It is clear in 1 Corinthians 5 that we should disassociate ourselves from people who claim to be a Christian, yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or drunkard, or a swindler. Period. They claim this and don’t repent. That’s different than someone trying to turn away from sin like gluttony, drunkenness, homosexuality, etc.
Bruce says
Amen Yvonne,
LOVE your neighbor (the sinner) and imitate God (hate the sin).
Bruce says
By the way Jesus ministry was part of the OT. The NT started at His resurrection. He came for the lost sheep (the Jews) NOT the gentils. Paul was sent for the Gentils. The Gospels are OT for an Ensample. If you want to teach Grace, teach what Paul wrote.
Mark says
The truth is, we’re are all sinners.
Yahweh gives us opportunities to change our ways to do what we know is right in his eyes.
It is free will that determines the path we take and for those who choose the path of righteousness will unfortunately stumble but they will recognise their sin and will repent.
As we are all sinners it makes hard to judge other’s.
Although a true believer can not support a deliberate action that contradicts what is written in the bible. In saying this homosexuality is indeed a sin and it should not be supported unless we depart from the Holy Father’s word.
Rose says
You can’t change the facts it is Love the sinner hate the sin two men being together two women being together is a sin It’s in the book of Leviticus Read it for yourself God doesn’t make mistakes He made man and woman to appropriate and to grow multiply two men can’t do that two women can’t do that You’re always want to try to act as if the Christian world hates gay people We don’t hate gay people but the sin the act the way in which all live yes God hates it just like he hates any other sexual sins that go on that has nothing to do with marriage and two men and two women being married together does not work in the eyes of God Amen
Karen Reid says
You claim God isn’t as worked up by sins as we are? Hmmm….the Bible says He is a God wjo has indignation every day. 1 Cor. 6:9-11 makes it clear that there ARE specific sins that will keep us out of heaven. It sounds like you need to justify your sins and equate all sins, which is not at all what the Bible says. God was so “worked up” by homosexuality that He in fact DESTROYED Sodom and Gomorrah. You have been deceived by Satan, and are promoting his agenda.
chrissy says
Ezekiel 3:18
New King James Version
18 When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.
Ed Silva says
if one asks for forgiveness and truly repents from that sin, one must acknowledge the sin is a sin. Understanding that God the Father and Jesus Christ will forgive sin if you believe that Jesus Christ has died on the cross for atonement for the sin of man, that you truly repent of the sin. When you truly repent, you whole heartedly try to stop from committing the sin. Although you may sin again, for the flesh is weak, the repent process can honestly begin again… But, and this is a big “but”, if you truly do not repent of the sin, you will not be forgiven. If anyone continues in sin, without truly repenting from that sin, the sin will not be forgiven…God knows your heart, period… So, no matter what the current public opinion is….a person can not live a homosexual lifestyle and be a true follower of Christ… Light and Darkness cannot exist together…Period!!! Christ loves all and wishes to spend eternity together…however… the Law still exists… God is the Alpha and the Omega…Always righteous for eternity…
The Real Person!
The Real Person!
I’m sorry, but I do not agree with this articles take on the saying “love the sinner, hate the sin. Jesus does love the sinner”. He absolutely hates the sins we commit especially if we don’t stop, repent, and cease doing in which is difficult.