What was the date of the birth of Jesus? Do you care? I don’t really. But I used to. I preached an entire sermon on it once. Here is an excerpt from that sermon:
…Nine months later, John the Baptist in born. This would mean that John the Baptist was born in late March. The date of John’s birth is important also, but I will get to that in just a moment. For now, remember that six months into Elizabeth’s pregnancy, Mary also was visited by the angel Gabriel and she, as a virgin, miraculously conceived. So this means that John the Baptist was six months older than Jesus. So think about it. If John was born in late March, then six months later, Jesus would have been born of Mary, this makes His birthday sometime in late September.
Also, here is where it gets exciting. Knowing such a fact does not make us better Christians unless we can apply it. Right? So here is where it gets spiritually profitable to know such a fact. You probably know that the Jews had many holidays and feasts throughout the year, just like we do. But as many of you know, these feasts were not only ways to remember what God had done in the past, kind of like our Thanksgiving, but were also prophetic for what God was going to do in the future.
The Jewish feasts both looked backward to what God had done in the past, and looked forward to what he had promised to do in the future. It is very similar to our Lord’s Supper, or Communion. When we observe communion, it both looks back to what Jesus Christ did on the cross for us, and it looks forward to when He will come again.
It is funny where I say, “Knowing such a fact does not make us better Christians unless we can apply it.” Ha!
I am not sure that my “theory” is actually fact, and even if it is, I’m not sure such an idea can actually be applied. Even if it could be applied, I’m not sure that knowing the date of Jesus’ birth will make us “better Christians” even if we do apply it. And even if it could, I don’t think I do that great of a job applying this “fact” in the sermon.
Ah, well… there is nothing like laughing at yourself to brighten the holiday cheer.
I do remember really enjoying preparing and preaching that sermon. I am sure that in another ten years, I will look back and some of what I have written on this blog, and roll my eyes at it as well.
If you want to read the rest of the sermon, it is here: Luke 2:1-3 – Christmas Redemption. If you are looking for other devotional ideas on the theme of Christmas, try some of my Scriptures on Christmas.
So… you used to preach your sermons from word-for-word manuscripts, eh? You were one of THOSE
Yep. I was one of those. Ha!
I do not know if I am one of those today. This last Sunday, for example, I preached without a single bit of notes at all. I don’t think this is necessarily better or more spiritual.
I see strengths and weaknesses in both.
(sorry, didn’t finish) … one of THOSE meticulous with your words types. I’m sure glad you’re not like that now! Actually, I like writers that choose their words carefully and thoughtfully (unlike myself… but I haven’t yet ventured to consider myself a “writer” per se). Blah, blah, blah… blah, blah.
So what am I trying to communicate? I DON’T KNOW! …and you don’t either.
Sorry. Happy Birthday to our Lord though!
(a bit tongue in cheek there)
Happy New Year to you all?
M.
Hilarious.
I find that my brain does not function so well in front of crowds. I cannot think on my feet. So, that was one reason why I manuscripted my sermons.
Also, I wanted to make sure I did the hard work of bringing something of substance to the people. Though it is not always true, many unmanuscripted sermons seem to be repetitive and someone empty of content.
Yes, the “better Christians” part does merit a smile. Did you also think that attending (and supporting) your church would make one a “better Christian” than one could be whilst attending that church down the street?
As the feasts reflect both past and future, could it be that we have “forced” a linearity on “past” and “future” that exists primarily in our point of view?
Sam,
Yes, I did think that attending church made a person a better Christian. And not just church, but Sunday School, Sunday night, Wednesday night, and Prayer Meeting.
Great question about time. It is high time we had a worldwide revolution in our view of time.
Hi, I think it’s only human to underrate the importance of anything we are unable to know or understand. This also applies to the date of Jesus’ birth. Until the date of His birth wasn’t known, the Pope, all top churchmen and mainstream media theologians could claim that it was impossible to determine that date. (‘O you of little faith!’) Now, this information is readily available: Jesus was born on September 26, 4 BCE, at 3pm. You can either accept or refute this. It’s as simple as that. The date of Jesus’ birth can only be determined once we have determined the date of His death (March 25 /Nisan 15!/ 31 CE, Tuesday, 3pm). There’s no other way around it. Is it of importance at all to determine the date of Jesus’ birth? No, it isn’t. But once we happen to know the date of His birth, what stops us from making it public? Actually, it’s the dates of Jesus’ death and resurrection (3 days and 3 nights, Mat 12:40) that are of (vital) importance because they constitute the sign of Jonah, the only sign Jesus gave His disciples and us to believe in. However, knowing from the Bible that Jesus’ earthly life was 33 and a half years long, it’s more difficult NOT to determine the date of Jesus’ birth than to determine it. For more details, if interested, you can read an entitled ’How Could Jesus Spend Three Days and Three Nights in the Tomb?’ at Faithreaders, by Sandor Balog. Best wishes to all!
Thanks, Sandor. You have some great studies on the dates and times.
I hear you. I just dug up something I wrote a few years ago blasting the commerm and paganism of our Christmas celebration so I could share it with friends. After reading it I could only shake my head and wonder how I could have ever written that way.
But I find it interesting to examine the historical underpinnings of some of our traditions, such as the date of Jesus’ birth. Helps keep us humble about how much we think we know.
Good post.
Bill,
Yes. I cringe at much of what I used to preach, and more than that, how I used to preach it. It is good that God is more gracious with us than we often are toward others!
BIRTH AND INFANCY OF JESUS
Jesus (Joshua Ben Joseph) was born on August 21, 7BC at 12:00 noon.
For those wishing to explore this birth here is the most accurate information available in the world today.
Link:
http://www.machiventa.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2315
First 2 Par. of the Paper.
122:1.1 Joseph, the human father of Jesus (Joshua ben Joseph), was a Hebrew of the Hebrews, albeit he carried many non-Jewish racial strains which had been added to his ancestral tree from time to time by the female lines of his progenitors. The ancestry of the father of Jesus went back to the days of Abraham and through this venerable patriarch to the earlier lines of inheritance leading to the Sumerians and Nodites and, through the southern tribes of the ancient blue man, to Andon and Fonta. David and Solomon were not in the direct line of Joseph’s ancestry, neither did Joseph’s lineage go directly back to Adam. Joseph’s immediate ancestors were mechanics — builders, carpenters, masons, and smiths. Joseph himself was a carpenter and later a contractor. His family belonged to a long and illustrious line of the nobility of the common people, accentuated ever and anon by the appearance of unusual individuals who had distinguished themselves in connection with the evolution of religion on Urantia.
122:1.2 Mary, the earth mother of Jesus, was a descendant of a long line of unique ancestors embracing many of the most remarkable women in the racial history of Urantia. Although Mary was an average woman of her day and generation, possessing a fairly normal temperament, she reckoned among her ancestors such well-known women as Annon, Tamar, Ruth, Bathsheba, Ansie, Cloa, Eve, Enta, and Ratta. No Jewish woman of that day had a more illustrious lineage of common progenitors or one extending back to more auspicious beginnings. Mary’s ancestry, like Joseph’s, was characterized by the predominance of strong but average individuals, relieved now and then by numerous outstanding personalities in the march of civilization and the progressive evolution of religion. Racially considered, it is hardly proper to regard Mary as a Jewess. In culture and belief she was a Jew, but in hereditary endowment she was more a composite of Syrian, Hittite, Phoenician, Greek, and Egyptian stocks, her racial inheritance being more general than that of Joseph.
The most accurate information available in the world today? That is quite a claim! Did you write it?
No Jeremy, I did not write it. It was written by beings (human cousins) present on earth at the time of the Master’s birth on this world. These creatures are midway between men and angels and very much like the human soul. Many of these living beings fell into open rebellion at the time of the Lucifer rebellion. Those of this order of universe creatures who remained loyal to Christ have been working consistently with the angelic and other higher orders of beings for the advancement of man into the ages of light and life. This is their record of the times of Jesus.
Here is a direct statement from them regarding this restatement of the life and teachings of Jesus.
Part IV: The Life and Teachings of Jesus: Papers 121-196
121:8.12. Acknowledgment:— In carrying out my commission to restate the teachings and retell the doings of Jesus of Nazareth, I have drawn freely upon all sources of record and planetary information. My ruling motive has been to prepare a record which will not only be enlightening to the generation of men now living, but which may also be helpful to all future generations. From the vast store of information made available to me, I have chosen that which is best suited to the accomplishment of this purpose. As far as possible I have derived my information from purely human sources. Only when such sources failed, have I resorted to those records which are superhuman. When ideas and concepts of Jesus’ life and teachings have been acceptably expressed by a human mind, I invariably gave preference to such apparently human thought patterns. Although I have sought to adjust the verbal expression the better to conform to our concept of the real meaning and the true import of the Master’s life and teachings, as far as possible, I have adhered to the actual human concept and thought pattern in all my narratives. I well know that those concepts which have had origin in the human mind will prove more acceptable and helpful to all other human minds. When unable to find the necessary concepts in the human records or in human expressions, I have next resorted to the memory resources of my own order of earth creatures, the midwayers. And when that secondary source of information proved inadequate, I have unhesitatingly resorted to the superplanetary sources of information.
121:8.13 The memoranda which I have collected, and from which I have prepared this narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus — aside from the memory of the record of the Apostle Andrew —— embrace thought gems and superior concepts of Jesus’ teachings assembled from more than two thousand human beings who have lived on earth from the days of Jesus down to the time of the inditing of these revelations, more correctly restatements. The revelatory permission has been utilized only when the human record and human concepts failed to supply an adequate thought pattern. My revelatory commission forbade me to resort to extrahuman sources of either information or expression until such a time as I could testify that I had failed in my efforts to find the required conceptual expression in purely human sources.
121:8.14— While I, with the collaboration of my eleven associate fellow midwayers and under the supervision of the Melchizedek of record, have portrayed this narrative in accordance with my concept of its effective arrangement and in response to my choice of immediate expression, nevertheless, the majority of the ideas and even some of the effective expressions which I have thus utilized had their origin in the minds of the men of many races who have lived on earth during the intervening generations, right on down to those who are still alive at the time of this undertaking. In many ways I have served more as a collector and editor than as an original narrator. I have unhesitatingly appropriated those ideas and concepts, preferably human, which would enable me to create the most effective portraiture of Jesus’ life, and which would qualify me to restate his matchless teachings in the most strikingly helpful and universally uplifting phraseology. In behalf of the Brotherhood of the United Midwayers of Urantia, I most gratefully acknowledge our indebtedness to all sources of record and concept which have been hereinafter utilized in the further elaboration of our restatement of Jesus’ life on earth.
I strongly doubt Jesus actually said any of that. I prefer to take as more reliable the actual eyewitnesses to the life and ministry of Jesus, those who saw Him with their eyes, heard Him with their ears, and touched Him with their hands.
I imagine that these people claim to have done similar things, but there are lots of groups today who make such claims, and as soon as people make these claims, big alarm bells need to start going off in our heads.
Jesus made this statement to the first 12 men who wholeheartedly agreed among themselves the Jesus was our Creator Father living among men.
My Father is no respecter of races or generations in that the word of truth is vouchsafed one age and withheld from another. Commit not the folly of calling that divine which is wholly human, and fail not to discern the words of truth which come not through the traditional oracles of supposed inspiration.
The Spirit of Truth indwelling the minds of man from the time of
his ascension to the Father will confirm the truth once an individual chances to come across it. That is if they have not surrendered the liquid liberty of enlightened sonship to the doctrine, dogma and authority of the traditional religions of the races. Jesus spent his entire life attempting to thaw out these frozen forms of religion. His religion leaves man free to respond to wherever the indwelling spirit will lead them.
Here is the Masters viewpoints on the truth about the scriptures as revealed to Nathaniel.
*4. THE TALK WITH NATHANIEL*
159:4.1 And then went Jesus over to Abila, where Nathaniel and his associates labored. Nathaniel was much bothered by some of Jesus’ pronouncements which seemed to detract from the authority of the recognized Hebrew scriptures. Accordingly, on this night, after the usual period of questions and answers, Nathaniel took Jesus away from the others and asked: “Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings — the best as I view it — and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?” When Jesus heard the question of his bewildered apostle, he answered:
159:4.2 “Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.
159:4.3 “These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.
159:4.4 “Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.
159:4.5 “Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies — men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.
159:4.6 “The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.
159:4.7 “The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their *words* were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we *live* these truths while we shun the making of records.
159:4.8 “Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.
159:4.9 “But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scriptures is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.
159:4.10 “But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations.”
159:4.11 Nathaniel was enlightened, and shocked, by the Master’s pronouncement. He long pondered this talk in the depths of his soul, but he told no man concerning this conference until after Jesus’ ascension; and even then he feared to impart the full story of the Master’s instruction.
Conceived around 15th Day of the 10th Month preceding year & Born 15th day of the seventh month following year which is Feast of Tabernacles.
This should translate to around December 15 and September 15 on Roman Calendar
This would also translate to December 20th and September 26th on the Gregorian Calendar; under certain conditions such as starting the year in March instead of January and conforming the calendar to the original one; Not easy.
Also knowing makes us better Christians in a sense because Christmas seems to be of the Doctrine of the Nicolaitans mentioned in Revelations Chapter 2; which the God of Abraham hates.
I did a google search of him born September 26th out of curiosity and found this article.
Your theory seems good especially considering our Gregorian Calendar is not a fixed calendar.
I do think is less confusion when we don’t convert it over to the Gregorian Calendar though;
The most accurate information of his birth is Lev 23:42 & Lev 23:34
Oh and the date of conception is speculation on my part based on a perfect and average 40 week pregnancy.
December 20th and September 26th on the Gregorian Calendar conversion is also speculation which i take back because seemingly can cause confusion.
The most accurate information of his birth to my knowledge is Lev 23:42 & Lev 23:34.
Conceived around 15th Day of the 10th Month preceding year & Born 15th day of the seventh month following year which is Feast of Tabernacles.
So around original December 15th conceived and around original September 15th birth.
Date of conception is speculation on my part based on a perfect and average 40 week pregnancy.