This is a guest post from Wesley Rostoll. He lives in in South Africa with his wife and two kids.
Wesley left the institutional church about 5 years ago and has been exploring what some people call organic church ever since. He writes about what he has learned from the experience on his blog.
If you would like to write a Guest Post for the Till He Comes Blog, begin by reading the Guest Blogger Guidelines.
For most of my life I thought that the punishment that mankind and the rest of creation suffered for Adam and Eve’s one act of disobedience in the garden seemed incredibly harsh. When compared to some of the things I had done in my life, it seems like I have done far worse and gotten away with it.
So when God said to Adam that if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that he would surely die I read it more as a threat than as a warning.
The truth is this wasn’t a case of a petty or offended deity overreacting.
Despite the fact that most of us grew up believing that God could not look upon sin (see my thoughts on that over here), it was not God who hid Himself from Adam but the other way around.
After the fall we see God seeking Adam and Eve out, clothing them when they realized that they were naked and putting them outside of the garden for their own protection (Genesis 3:22).
Nevertheless, we see a drastic change in man and in his relationship with God after Genesis 3. And here is the crux of why that piece of fruit om the Garden of Eden was such a big deal.
When Adam chose to eat that fruit from the forbidden tree, he was essentially choosing independence from God.
Man would now decide for himself what was good and evil.
God tried to warn Adam that going it alone would surely end badly for him and that it was a path that would lead to destruction. It was intended for mankind to draw life from God and bear his image and likeness but the fall changed that.
It is easy to overlook the tragedy of Genesis 5:3. Hidden away in a genealogy list, it tells us that when Adam had sons and daughters they were born into his image and likeness.
Fortunately for us though he loved us enough to send a new Adam, one not born of man but of the Spirit (Matthew 1:18). Hebrews 1:3 tells us that this man, Jesus, was the exact representation of God. Jesus himself said that if you had seen him you had seen the Father. The good news doesn’t stop there either; Paul said that he (Jesus) would be the first born among many and that we who found life in him would be conformed into his image (Romans 8:29), which ultimately restores us back to what was lost in the Garden.
I do not think that it was an accident that Jesus chose the words he did when he said that he is the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6).
Likewise I do not think that it was a coincidence when he used the illustration of himself as being the true vine (John 5:5) and that those who were in him would bear much fruit.
Today our choice is not so different from the one that Adam faced. We can choose life and we can find it in that vine or we can choose the broad way that leads to destruction.
That is an interesting way to look at it–Adam was choosing independance from God–. When I was born again I basically said that my life was a mess and I needed God’s help to figure things out. So we are choosing to be dependent on God when we confess Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
Hi Emilo. It looks like we reached the same conclusion using different words 🙂
I’m very much in agreement with this. The sin was not about the fruit, it was about Adam’s heart toward God. Thomas Hobbes pointed out that by judging the nakedness in which God made them to be shameful Adam and Eve were in essence condemning God’s work. Literally, they were judging good and evil for themselves – which, of course, was not their job…
“Had he eaten seven apples, and yet never claimed anything for his own, he would not have fallen.” -Theologia Germanica
Great quote, I am definitely going to search out and read up on Thomas Hobbes. Thanks Jake.
To this day, after all that I have read, Thomas Hobbes is probably one of the only philosophers I have read whose political ideas are truly compatible with Romans 13:1-2.
There are several theories here and presumptions that make this answer nebulous!
Hi Tom. It’s always difficult to cram a lot of info into something as short as a Blog post. I am currently writing a book on the cross with a whole chapter devoted to the fall and image topics mentioned above. I would love to have your input if you are willing to expound on what is unclear or perhaps incorrect? I am wrong often enough that I have come to a place of look forwarding to the opportunity of discovering things anew.
Knowing good and evil is good – like the God’s law is good (which shows us what is good, and what is not)! But do we live by the Law?? No! Only One was able to fully comply to God’s perfect law! So the tree basically showed them their condition – nakedness. But they were naked even before eating (and they were not ashamed!). So why they became ashamed of their own condition after eating from the tree of knowledge? Because they were now conscious of having disobeyed God – and that consciousness made them to be ashamed of themselves. Flesh is always ashamed of itself when the God’s perfect law shows us as we are – and we are never perfect after disobeying God. But now we have a remedy for our imperfections – life of Jesus Christ who is put on our account as well as His death! His righteousness and His obedience are put on our account!
Adam and woman were not “choosing” independence. The woman was deceived because the tree, opposed to other trees in the garden (which were all beautiful for the eye) was also apparently “good for wisdom”. Infact, the knowledge of good and evil is good – but not for fleshly mankind. Adam and woman were not God-like and God-born as Jesus was (as only begotten son)! Bible plainly says that first man is of the earth, and only the last Adam is from above. To resist the fleshly inclinations you have to be from above, born of Spirit! So they were innocent but not fully equipped to resist the lust of the flesh. I know this statement sounds like a heresy for many people, because they misunderstand me. Adam and woman were very good as a creation, but not “perfect” in a sense that Jesus is. The wholeness and perfection are intended from the start to be experienced only in being born from above – it was all part of god’s plan. Knowing good and evil is good – like the God’s law is good (which shows us what is good, and what is not)! But do we live by the Law?? No! Only One was able to fully comply to God’s perfect law! So the tree basically showed them their condition – nakedness. But they were naked even before eating (and they were not ashamed!). So why they became ashamed of their own condition after eating from the tree of knowledge? Because they were now conscious of having disobeyed God – and that consciousness made them to be ashamed of themselves. Flesh is always ashamed of itself when the God’s perfect law shows us as we are – and we are never perfect after disobeying God. But now we have a remedy for our imperfections – life of Jesus Christ who is put on our account as well as His death! His righteousness and His obedience are put on our account!
You are correct in saying that Eve was deceived into eating the fruit. Perhaps my choice of words was not the best. You made several good points, the one that intrigues me most is the comment that Adam and woman were not God-like or image bearers in the sense that Jesus was. I will have to give it some more thought.
O do brother, it is plainly there in the Bible, we look at it but don’t really see it. It was like that with me for many years. Jesus is “the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation” (Colossians 1:15)! At the beginning Adam and woman were not yet born in Crist! They were not firstborn of God- Crist is!The life that was breathed in them was the same breath that God gave to every living being, including animals ( even though I don’t know hebrew, I looked into words in Genesis on biblehub). It says also somewhere in the NT that the first Adam became living being, while the last Adam is life-giving Spirit. See the difference? God bless…
I see the issue is not phical fruit, but spiritual fruit.
/remember the tree was both good and evil
Once you start eating bad (evil) fruit that is filling your brain (heart) with it
A case of garbage in garbage out
Evil fruit appeals to the flesh (emotions)
The tree in itself was not bad at all. Everything God created was good. Every tree in the garden. God put 2 trees in the middle, in the heart of the Garden, in the center! What does it tell us? That God’s life (tree of life) and God’s law (tree of knowledge of good and evil) are equally part of who God is. Does God knows good and evil? Genesis says He does (I dont’ think God is being sarcastic in Genesis 3:22).Is that knowledge good? Sure it is, since God is good. But flesh cannot cope with that knowledge. Only God can 🙂
Agreed. I think it was also about them wanting to be like God, (since this is what the serpent told them would happen if they ate the fruit) not knowing they were more like Him before eating the fruit and eating the fruit caused them to move away from God.
Well said!
As I have read, ruminated, and wrestled with this I see the trend of Original Sin – that compulsion to seek godliness on our terms & not God’s – evidenced in the history of secular humanity and borne by believers, the faithful as well as heterodox, into the congregation. It is plainly exposed as the problem with Israel, and the first-century Church in Scripture. I am grateful to have read this post and comments. Thanks be to God.
But the question remains as to why God would put that tree with forbidden fruits in Eden. Would we, as humans, put something extremely dangerous for our children to be close with? To tempt them with great a danger, one that would kill them and their offspring? I reckon that as giving humans ‘grenades’ and tell them not to pull the pins and when they do, they will surely die.
Why did God warn against sexual sins when He had created sexual drives like a irresistible itch? Why did God forgave David and not his innocent son? Christians have the tendency to explain things in a cheap way. The explanation of Christ death on the cross raises other question as well. Why did God punished a being, whom the Bible described as ‘ a bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out…’? Oh ya, the common answer is ‘God Himself died on the cross for us’ with the necessary implication that there was NO GOD in heaven and this universe for a brief moment. Maybe God put the arch-angel Michael temporary in charge as He went down to earth to die for mankind.
Ezekiel show us many times that God did things that we humans would call ‘evil’. In fact on many occasion God spoke through the prophets of old that He did things, things that modern Christianity would not be honest enough to admit as ‘unbecoming of a Holy God’. God admitted He created the blind etc.
My conclusion is that God is Holy and Sovereign. But our definition of His Holiness need a new reexamination. No one can honestly say that the eating of a forbidden fruit and the downward spiral of punishment for sins – the Curse – is something fair and reasonable. We humans would never do that to our disobedient children. We will never hand them a live grenade to play with in their lives and the lives of their great great great great great grandchildren.
The God of the Old Testament , I note. But Jesus Christ is my problem. I love Jesus, but it is difficult for me to love the God of the Old Testament. The God of OT is like and angry and unreasonable person. But Jesus Christ is everything a Holy and loving God is. I cannot reconcile this.
Yes and yes. Lots of good questions here, many which I myself have. I have been trying to figure this out for many years now, and have recently come across something that makes sense in my brain, but I need to mull it over for a while before taking it further. My current “Calvinism” series is a filler while I do reading and research on these questions you have raised.
Thank you for saying something. I think you should not ‘mull over’ what made sense to you now so as not to make it appear fabricated for the masses. Just let it come up naturally – even if you have to update it later. Let’s be open and truthful with each other. I am a CHINESE and we can take anything in this world. Even painful truths. As a starter, how about the Apostle Paul’s request to Timothy to bring the clothe and some parchment he left behind? Is that inspired text for us? It seems to me that the inspiration of scripture must be understood and accepted in totality BEFORE the story of Adam and Eve and the forbidden tree with its forbidden fruit and the Curse can be accepted and believed in.
If I failed to accept the inspiration and INERRANCY of scripture from the outset, I will trip many times along the way even if it was already a 40 years Christian walk. Human weaknesses are due to a flawed belief in something they have not as yet understood or accepted and so Eve felled because she did not believe in the word of God and would rather believe in a communicating serpent. “Did God said…?”
So, was it really about a piece of fruit? No. It was about believing and accepting the word of God. And it is so difficult to truly believe that the Bible is the inspired and inerrant word of God.
Btw, John Macarthur has been my favourite Bible teacher for a long time. I have recently started to study Calvinism a bit more, what a coincident! Would you start a discussion on that?
A discussion about John MacArthur?
I might be quoting him some later. He is a really good Bible teacher. I just disagree with him on some areas.
There is a principle in law that the punishment meted on an offender, must be proportional to the offense committed. Excessive punishment is not just. The punishment meted on Adam and Eve is not just because it was disproportional to the offence. It does little in our understanding of God’s character when he then decided to clothe the couple with animal skins.
Oh I see. God, in punishing our Original Parent, did it to illustrate how a sinless Christ would one day die on the cross for others. If so, if really that is so, why are we still being punished today – with pain, sorrow and in much need after 2000 years? Where are our leather jackets?
I am beginning to question traditional interpretations of scripture – esp. that of the Evangelicals. And I must continue with the God of the Old Testament. He was an angry God and hard to please. He was bias. He was a terrifying Being who spared not the old, children and woman. When He sent Christ, was it an act of ‘repentance’ on His part after eons of showing His fearsome nature? Christ is our Savior – only faith in Him and the true repentance of our sins and the acceptance of Him as Lord and Savior guarantees our eternal salvation. But…………. he Had said ” He who has seen me has seen the Father’. How can it be?
I believe that Jesus perfectly and fully reveals the Father to us. If, therefore, the God of the Old Testament looks nothing like Jesus in the gospel, we need to question how we are reading and understanding those texts in the Old Testament. You are doing this, which is great! Keep moving forward, and whatever you do, don’t lose sight of Jesus.
This is my last posting here – as I expect to die very soon. The God of the OT will kill me for speaking out loud my thought. If you do not hear from me again, know that I am dead because the God of the Old Testament ‘dealt’ with me.
It is hard to understand how Scripture promises eternal life for those in Christ Jesus SOME DAY and but not save them here on earth today. People are dying all over the world. People are shot out of the sky. People disappeared from the sky. People are decapitated more easily then preparing a fish. Women and children are raped and murdered and the Bible said ” believe in the Lord Jesus and you and your household will be saved”. Saved from what? Saved after DEATH?
If God can and will save us after death, why would He not save us NOW? I want to be saved now to serve Him and to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the uttermost part of the world. This is Christs’ commandment to us too. But in order to do that and do that faithfully well, we need to live in the present. To survive is to serve and to serve is to survive. As of now, many of us are more dead than alive.
The Christian life is an oxymoron.
Hopefully you are still alive! 😉
Eternal live does actually begin now. The moment you believe in Jesus for eternal life, you have it (John 3:16; 5:24; 6:47). Yes, our flesh may still die, but this is a good thing, so that it can rise again to newness of life in a glorified and perfect body.