Have you ever heard someone say that God cannot look upon sin? I have, and a reader recently sent in this question:
It has been told to me that God cannot look upon evil, so why does the beginning of the book of Job portray God and satan conversing?
I have written about this before as part of the book I am writing on the goodness of God and the problem of violent portrayals of God in the Old Testament. Regarding this question of whether or not God can look upon sin or be near evil, I wrote this:
Sometimes we get this crooked view of God where He cannot look upon sin or be near sin because sin would somehow taint His holiness. Such a view gives sin way too much power and gives God way too little.
God is not like a pristine white couch upon which no one can sit for fear of it getting soiled. No, sin cannot be in the presence of God because whenever God draws near to sin, the raging inferno of His love and holiness washes all sin away. God can no more be tainted by sin than the ocean could be dyed red with a single drop of food coloring.
This is why God takes all sin upon Himself in Jesus and in the Old Testament.
Sin crushes, enslaves, and destroys humanity, but it vanishes away into nothingness at the smallest touch of God’s blazing holiness.
God Cannot Look Upon Sin (Habakkuk 1:13)?
This idea that God cannot look upon sin or see evil probably comes from Habakkuk 1:13. In one translation, for example, it says this:
Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong (NIV).
Ironically, the text then goes on to say that God does in fact tolerate wickedness and evil. Habakkuk is a book where the prophet asks numerous questions to God such as this one. The prophet Habakkuk looks around him at what is going on in the world and has trouble reconciling it with what He knows about God, and so He asks a whole series of challenging questions about God’s behavior and actions. Habakkuk 1:13 is one of those questions… the first one actually.
Habakkuk does not believe that God cannot actually see evil. No, Habakkuk knows that God sees everything that goes on in the world. From the very beginning, God saw that Adam and had sinned, and He saw when Cain killed His brother Abel, and He saw when the people on the earth became so wicked that a flood was going to destroy them all. We could go on and on throughout the Bible to see that God both knows the evil that is going on in the world, and He sees it. God sees every bit of evil in this world.
So to say that God cannot look upon sin is not accurate biblically, and is not what Habakkuk 1:13 teaches. Instead, it seems that what Habakkuk is saying is that God, by not seeming to do anything about evil, appears to be looking upon evil with approval. But we know that God does not look upon evil in approval; He disapproves it. So how then is it that the treacherous seem to be in God’s favor, and the wicked seem to win at everything? This is what Habakkuk is asking.
And if we look around in the world, we often have the same question. Why do the wicked prosper? Why do the treacherous thrive? (Jeremiah 12:1). Job asked a similar question as well in Job 21:7.
God Can Be in the Presence of Sin
Which brings us back to the specific question that was sent in. Obviously, if God cannot look upon sin or evil then God should not have been able to look upon satan, or even allow satan to enter His presence. But according to Job 1, God does both.
This dilemma goes away when we realize that it is not true that God cannot look upon sin and evil.
In fact, far from averting His gaze or blinding His eyes to all the sin and evil that goes on in the world, God dives right into the thick of it. He finds the vilest places, the most terrible times, and the evilest situations, and jumps in there.
Why?
Because He loves us too much to leave us in the darkness of sin, and because the light shines brightest in the darkest of areas.
Look at it this way: To say that God cannot look upon sin or be in the presence of evil is to deny that Jesus was fully God. Did Jesus come to this earth? Of course! Did He ignore sin and keep Himself away from all who were sinners! Far from it! Rather, He sought out the sinners. He hung around the prostitutes and tax collectors. He laid hands on the lepers and showed love to adulterers.
And on the cross, Jesus took our sin upon Himself. 2 Corinthians 5:21 says He became sin for us! He took the curse upon Himself (Galatians 3:13).
And if Jesus reveals God to us, then we can assume that God also likes to hang out with sinners and show love to the wicked. To say that God cannot look upon sin is to say that sin can defeat and defile God; that sin is more powerful than the righteous holiness of God! May it never be! God is not so weak and powerless!
So when satan comes into the presence of God in Job 1, God is not threatened by satan. God sees satan, talks with satan, and even agrees to let satan have his way with Job (which I actually have some major problems with, but that is a topic for a different post).
So don’t say God cannot look upon sin.
Instead, be grateful and thankful that God can look upon sin, and in fact, looks upon it every second of every day, and not just looks upon it, but decides to do something about it.
It is only because God can look upon sin that He sent His son Jesus Christ to do something about sin, and it is only because God can be near sin that He is able to be with each one of us in the midst of our sin and filth.
God loves us so much, He is willing to walk with us and be near us through the worst of our sins.
“Sin crushes, enslaves, and destroys humanity, but it vanishes away into nothingness at the smallest touch of God’s blazing holiness.”
Well said. It is not, in my understanding, that God is simply stronger than Satan, and therefore overpowers him. He is Truth, and in the presence of Truth a lie really is no-thing.
Thanks, Jake. Yes, in the love and truth of God, no hate or lie can exist. Well put.
How, then, can the concept of sin exist when there was nothing. When God spoke the word, was it “sin”?
For sin to exist, God would have had to think it up–this would make God responsible for sin. Since God’s brain touches His Thoughts, then the thought of sin would have, ” vanished away into nothingness at the smallest touch of God’s blazing holiness.” This gives two reasons why sin does not exist (the first is your belief–even though your practice supports–that God is not responsible for sin.)
Now, which concept do you plan to put into practice leaving the other discredited, Sin or the bible? (They’re kinda the same).
Since you haven’t gotten a response, I’d like to in his stead. Sin is simply disobedience from God. It is rebellion against God. A violation of the divine law He set down.
Sin is not some magical thing by itself. Sin is rebellion against God, the King of Kings. God did not have to “think” it up. When God gave a command and then it was disobeyed THAT is sin.
And if one disobeys God and has not been forgiven, then they are separated from God for all eternity in the wilderness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
While that may sound harsh, on the other hand, why would an unrepentant and disobedient rebel want to go to Heaven and serve the King? Rather they preferred to be with fellow rebels here on Earth, and suffer, than to experience the joy of loving and serving God.
I’m interested in that term, “weeping and gnashing of teeth”. Who does the Bible say (what scripture) will weep and gnash their teeth?
This is actually a reply to Bridgett, I want to say that there are many who will be cast headlong into darkness, the nonbeliever and those who think they believe but are actually more akin to the worthless servant (Matthew 22:13) and those who practice lawlessness (Matthew 7:23).
Philosopher God is without sin that is his who he is the evidence is that Jesus was like the father and he was without sin when God created satan it wasnt with evil intent just like us he had the choice to be obedient or to be disobedient to Gods word.He chose by his own volition to be disobedient and here we see the seeds of sin or lawlessness. satan was responsible for his own actions as Adam and Eve were and so are we.Its interesting that because of satans fall satan is now Gods lap dog he gives him a leash and tells him his constraints and he allows him to test his people so that through testing he builds our faith and so we can say that all things work for good to those that love God.brentnz
Holiness in the prescence of sin makes it more holy so they help to define what is holy and what is evil or sin.We see that all the way through the bible so they co-exist temporarily until evil has run its course and then God will judge and we know that satan is cast into the fiery pit for ever.Even towards satan God is merciful.brentnz
Yes i agree. I Left Out the trails and tribulations we must go through. I believe if we seek God with all our heart and soul we will overcome our own sin. What im trying to say is there is light at the end of the tunnel a very big light Jesus Christ. I like to think sin only has so much time but the free gift of eternal life paid by are savoir will last forever
Philosopher when you theorise that God created sin that path will take you to a place of unbelief and a mistrust in God as it is a place of doubt and unbelief if you see God as evil.That is one path everyone is free to take.The scriptures say that without faith it is impossible to please God.The other path is that we believe that the bible is true that God is holy and righteous and sin does not dwell him.Ultimately if we believe and trust him then we shall be saved.What does your theory offer is there hope or is there eternal life in your belief the answer is no because unless we believe in Jesus we shall not be saved and eternity is a long time if you are wrong.brentnz
Im not saying God is sin im saying if we Accept Jesus christ as our lord and savoir we can be saved. There is no name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. Christ is the only way and im being took up the wrong way. God is love thats but we must be saved to enter the kingdom of God. Thats what ive been saying This whole time and how could i go wrong with that
Your question about God thinking up sin is something I understand. But I believe that asking this question makes you the judge of God. I think that this is a dangerous position to put yourself in.
“…. in the presence of Truth a lie really is no-thing.”
Rather puts judgement day out of business, eh? With no lies, there is only pure thoughts.
So which are you going to put into practice, sin existing, or pure thoughts (rejecting the existence of judgement day.)?
Why do you think that pure thoughts only entail no lies?
When we’re with the crack addicts, prostitutes, dealers and similar folks, He is right there in the midst of all of us. Of course he sees their sin, as he sees ours. His grace is enough for them and us. If we had to earn it we’d all be sunk.
Absolutely true. Jesus goes with you to these places to hang out with these people… or maybe you go with Him…
Do you believe that grace is the alternative for righteous behavior?
Perhaps it is better to say, “Sin cannot exist in the presence of God”. Because once “sinful man” comes into the presence of God, he immediately repents and is immediately forgiven, and sin is wiped away. Therefore,… God’s presence= no sin.
Yes, maybe so. That might be a good clarification.
As I see in my life, a presence that wars against the Spirit and even Paul has to say, “Oh wretched man that I am” What you wrote can be misconstrued. As believers, our sin is not wiped away. True, we are forgiven, but we still possess a free will to sin and, as Paul writes, “live in a body of death”. It is daily, moment by moment decisions to obey or to disobey. One of Jesus last sayings before His assertion was, “I will send the HELPER”. Helper to what? Helper not to disobey, along with many other helps.
I just have a problem with people that say, I am a Christian and therefore I do not sin, and honestly believe this.
Only gold can exist in the presence of the Consuming Fire of Israel. That is why it is written that hay, wood & stubble will be burned up in that Day. If we have the hope of standing before Jesus when He comes, we should use the time now to purify ourselves.
Jesus makes the difference. After the resurrection, all people were gifted with the Holy Spirit. This is ‘why’ Jesus makes the difference. Since then, God lives in us. Before Jesus, He did not. (Thus, the “violent portrayals of God in the Old Testament”.) He saw sin prior to Jesus’ resurrection, but now, when we come before Him in Spirit, there is no sin to see. Jesus wiped it all away! Jesus bridged the gap. The Trinity is a beautiful thing!
God = God, The Creator
Jesus = God on earth in human form.
The Holy Spirit = God’s/Jesus’ Spirit in us.
I am not sure I would state everything exactly as you have, but I get the gist and agree with you. What God is doing in the world is truly beautiful!
Romans 8 is a good one to read to understand whether God sees our sin after we have come to believe in Jesus. The Holy Spirit has been given to us, but we must walk in the Spirit (and not gratify the desires of the flesh) in order to please God. In John 14:23, it is written that Jesus said, “If you love me you will keep my word and my Father will love you and we will come to you and make an abode with you.”
If you love Jesus, you will obey him and meditate on all He said. Sin then will become abhorrent to you and you will long for holiness and walk in righteousness.
Habakkuk 1:13 is a question. Habakkuk is lamenting to God of all the evil and is sarcastically asking if God is of too pure of eyes to behold all the evil and is therefore doing nothing about it. He is saying that it as though God cannot see the evil, because nothing is being done about it, just as he says in the next verse that it is as though men are no better than fish and creeping things, since it seems God is doing nothing to help them.
Yes! Excellent.
So this verse should NOT be quoted as saying that God cannot look upon sin. Instead, Habakkuk is saying, “God! Look at all the sin! Do something about it!”
“Sin.”
A concept that occurred before, “..there was nothing…” and God thinking it up so it could exist.
Is God really so stupid to create something that is beneath His Expectation(s)– much less, actually **apply** it?
There are issues with this perspective. Satan is not a human but an angel. The laws aren’t the same for him as humankind.
IN order for “satan” to exist, God would have had to have thought Him up (with all satan’s “choices).
Are you sure you want God to be evil enough to create evil?
Evil was not created by God but God did give it a definition. Absence of God .Sin is not in the presence of God the last time the devil tried to put sin in his presence it was blown to oblivion and proof to that was christ’s ultimate sacrifice on the cross so thats what happens when God and sin intervene. presence of God is absence of sin
Jim i agree that God cannot sin as he is holy thats his character just like satan cant be anything else than a robber or a liar. The idea that sin cannot stand in the prescence of God is complicated on the one hand as the righteous judge he cannot stand sin and we see a picture of that with the ten commandments anyone or anything that stood on his holy mountain instantly died.The other side we see a loving merciful God that reachs out to sinners like Adam and Eve and abraham in the old testament..Later we see Jesus who reconciled the holy judgement of God through his death and through grace reached out and preached to all sinners and made them clean or righteous before a holy God.
Philosopher i think you are way overthinking God didnt want robots he wanted people and angels to follow him because they believed in him and that he had the best intentions for them its a choice to believe him or reject him the same choice we have today.
Who says “sin” must exist?
Since God is Omniscient, and all things begin in an Omniscient Mind, sin began in God’s Mind.
Since none of you (who have made comments) choose to recognize this fact, then there can be no discourse. But it does not excuse God from thinking up sin when He is supposed to be perfect/holy/righteous/pure.
I would invite ONLY those that can think before God said, “Let there be man” to answer the following question as it is those that can adequately attempt it.
To qualify yourself in responding, answer this question WITHOUT including man, his freewill, or his “choice” in the following question AND do not make God into some stupid and/or evil being.
“Why did God plant The Tree of Knowledge in a place He knew, being Omniscient, would not Meet His Expectation(s), then decide to create two souls that would not Meet His Expectation(s), and then punish them for being created to not Meet His Expectations?” (Keeping in mind, man’s freewill, et.al., is not included in the question nor does it exist at the time.)
(Keeping in mind, man’s freewill, et.al., is not included in the question nor does it exist at the time.)
Why doesn’t it exist at the time?
Ephesians 1:3-6
Ephesians 2:4-7
Revelation 13:8
1 Peter 1:18-21
You would try and disprove God or God’s abilities? Go to church, learn to love God, live for God.
Phil, I hope you are still coming back to see the responses.
I think you would agree that if God existed and he created everything that is in existence, his knowledge, wisdom and power would be infinitely greater than ours. Therefore, what human or finite being can know the mind of God or be his counselor. In other words, we don’t have all the knowledge to understand his ways or plans. It would be the height of pride to think because we can come up with a scenario about God that other humans can’t answer, that we have proven something about God. I will put forth my humble opinion on your base question. In the end, all of our speculation on certain subjects for which we don’t have actual answers is only opinion.
In full disclosure, my opinion is an outgrowth of the following: I am a Christian and I believe that man is marred by sin, that God is loving and wants to save me and others from it, and has put in place a plan to accomplish this, which is Jesus’ death on the cross and his resurrection. My belief in these things and my desire to be obedient to his word, allows me to participate in his saving plan. I have not been biblically trained, nor did I go to college. All I know of God is through scripture, the Bible. And all of the above is believed through faith.
As someone in the thread above has already indicated, sin is disobedience to God’s will, word or commands. God does not perform sinful acts. It would be antithetical to believe otherwise since the Bible goes through great pains to explain that God is love. Sin is not love.
Your main question: Since God is Omniscient, and all things begin in an Omniscient Mind, sin began in God’s Mind: It all depends on what your meaning of sin is, the acts or the nature of it. While I will concede that God did define the nature of sin, that doesn’t mean he creates the actual acts of sin. By create, I mean participating in, committing an actual sinful event or cause anyone else to commit an actual sinful event. What God has done is to identify, label, provide understanding and warning about it, and explained the consequences of it. In its simplest nature, sin can only be committed or brought into existence by an act of the will.
Example: I know what fire is, can explain its nature and its consequences if touched, but that doesn’t mean I created it. I can warn the child not to touch the stove burners because of the consequences. If the child chooses to ignore my warning through his own will and reaches out, he will be burned. Like man, the child harbored pride in that he either knew better or didn’t believe what was being told to him and reached out only to suffer the consequence he was warned about.
Until there is some kind of peace in terms of your fundamental question, it doesn’t make sense to theorize the garden based questions.
There was sin in the heavens long before there was sin in the garden. God created the tree in order for Satan to be defeated in a manner lower than the higher order of creation that Satan was created in. Jesus was created a little lower than the angels when conceived of humanity and born into our created order. One of the attributes of the Trinity is submission and obedience. Jesus Christ submitted to the Father’s will to overcome the evil of Satan at a lower level-what a blow that must have been for Satan. In order for man to be created in the image of God, he had to be given a command to which he could choose to be obedient, or disobedient. So my reply to your thesis is that the battle between good and evil is between God and his created being, Satan. The Word of God tells us the the reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the work of the devil. He accomplished this will of God at a level equal to sinful humanity, yet without sin, at a level lower than the angelic beings.
Jeremy i agree with your idea that God can look upon sin.I heard this message once and it impacted me because it explained the concept so well.
Jesus when he touchs that which is unclean which symbolises sin makes it clean.Dead bodies and lepers were unclean to the jews under the law if you were clean and touched either you became contaminated by the uncleaness but when Jesus touchs a dead body the person is raised to life and if he touchs the leper he is made well.So that which is unclean is made clean by Jesus i heard that message once and it had a profound impact on me.So our lives are the same we were once unclean sinners but through his blood we have been washed clean and make righteous.That is so awesome..brentnz
Because of your remark after “So when Satan comes into the presence of God in Job 1, God is not threatened by Satan. God sees Satan, talks with Satan, and even agrees to let Satan have his way with Job, you wrote that you actually have a problem with this. I have never done this comment or discussion type thing and am not sure how so I will go on and maybe I will figure out how to find if you reply. Have you considered these questions. Who brought Job’s name up? Job was righteous but how did God see his righteousness? What do you eventually see as the purpose of God in the life of Job? What do you see happening to the life of Job? Read this with Romans 8:28-30. Maybe you have already thought this way but if you have not, where does God take you if you do?
Sin weakens innocence for example do yall remember when you were a child and we got so much excitement and joy from the everyday simple things. The reason some of us dont feel that way today is all becuase we brought sin upon are selves but its only when we think and pray to our lord and savoir Jesus Christ we feel a familiar feeling of joy and happiness after asking jesus to forgive us of are sins .we renew that old feeling and thats are original Design to be good in innocence like in genesis God made adam and saw that man was good. We have to program are selves to that original state of being and also to add to that is when jesus was asked who was the greatest in heaven he held a child and professed that we must become like these little ones to enter the kingdom of God. We all fall short gravity dosent play favorites but jesus does and he chose all of us. Lets Keep jesus in Our hearts and we cant go wrong.
Jim innocence is definitely seen in children but also our sinful nature that is why our job is to
discipline our kids. Children instinctively do whats wrong as it comes easy to them one of the first words ours picked up apart from mum and dad was no or mine and sibling rivalry got pretty hostile at times.With anything goes from biting scratching kicking we had 3 boys and a girl i thought the boys were much easier to keep in line as long as they had clear boundaries.Your a lucky man your children must have been angels i guess mine took after my side of the family so my wife keeps telling me..I definitely see the parallels of us being Gods children especially seeing it through a parents eyes.brentnz
I agree discipline is needed to teach Children from whats wrong and right if not they most likely qill go astray but when the lesson is learned Jesus will dwell in our hearts and the Holy Spirit will confront are own spirit we are christians children of Fos
Children of God i mean . my bad lol
Jim your either super young and texting me which i cant understand anyway or around my age and wasnt wearing your glasses because thats what i do.Its good that you can see the funny side brentnz
Whats so hard to understand? Jesus is on the throne and loves us all.
I didn’t understand that when Habakkuk said “your eyes are too pure to look upon evil…” as a question but as a statement. At least in the versions I have read. I also understood that when Jesus asked the Father, “why have you forsaken me?” when he was on the cross because Jesus had the sins of the world on him and God could not look upon sin. I read this from Billy Graham in March of 2016
“But in reality His words point to something far different. They point to the fact that when Jesus died on the cross, all our sins—without exception—were transferred to Him. He was without sin, for He was God in human flesh. But as He died all our sins were placed on Him, and He became the final and complete sacrifice for our sins. And in that moment He was banished from the presence of God, for sin cannot exist in God’s presence. His cry speaks of this truth; He endured the separation from God that you and I deserve.”
Use to think, God doesn’t see sin or iniquity, but appreciate the new perspective of His Love, Light, Mercy, Holiness etc overwhelming sin especially for humans, who happened to be His most priceless creation after Himself. This is the reason satan the accuser of believers can continuously come His presence. He see satan in ordinary form, an angel, nothing more because none of His creation can reduce Him.
Now concerning the cross, yes Jesus took upon Himself sin as a sacrifice once and for all, going by the above paragraph, it only suffice to say it wasn’t the sin upon Him that separated Him from God, per se, it was death, there had to be that disconnection/forsaking for Him to die.
Remember His last words, “it is finished”.
I am curious to know why you have a problem with the ways of God, in terms of letting Satan do to Job’s earthly possessions as we please?
I’m genuinely curious, because when it comes to the Lord Almighty, we don’t have the right to have a “problem” with the way he works and allows things. I think you should consider your position, and God’s position. If you love, trust, and know the goodness of our Lord, there is nothing you should have a problem with, in terms of what he does (always rightfully so).
Thank you for this very interesting insight!
We are being saddened as we live in France now and see our children and adult grandchildren drinking wine at our table together.
Where is the verse in the Bible that says that we don’t have to have fellowship with them at their table?
If God can be in the presence of sin, then why does he require the sin offering to cover the sins of the people in the old testament?
Do you believe all will be saved because of Jesus’ death on the cross? Or do you believe you must have faith in order to be saved?
Since God is the author of salvation, completely sovereign over his creation. Why did he allow his most powerful angel Lucifer to to deceive the first two people he created in the garden of Eden? When I go to the last book of the Bible,I read that God throws Satan into the Lake of fire. Seems that he should’ve done that in the beginning?
If theFather can look upon sin, why did He look away when Jesus was on the cross? “My God, My God” why have you forsaken me?”
Yes I agree to some point remember when Adam and Eve had committed sin in the garden God did not see them sin but rather he knew they had sin do you think when he asked where they were at after they had sin they went and hid because they had sin against God he knew were they were at and knew what they had done
So the statement God cannot look upon sin is rhetorical?
so God can be in same place as we who has sin?
I disagree with you because Jesus wasn’t fully God hence for why Jesus is the son of God but they work as one.
however just because satan talk to God doesn’t mean He was able to behold him. nowhere has it in the bible said angels have seen yet fully it does however in 1 John 3:2 we as Christains will God as himself in heaven.
also in
1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. so therefore did satan ever actually see him for what He was or really know him.
also He couldnt look upon Jesus when he died He also separated himself
from Jesus because he couldn’t take on the sin.
our understanding is way smaller than is.
I don’t see it as sin more powerful than him, by not taking on sin. it shows excatly the opposite that Him being so holy He can never be infiltrated by sin
If Jesus was “made sin” on the cross, how can He be our perfect sacrifice.
Man pleasers talk nonsense, using many words to deceive. Read what GOD has to say, you slaves of sin.
Matthew 7:13. ‘Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it; how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
‘But, take heed of the false prophets, who come unto you in sheep’s clothing, and inwardly are ravening wolves.”