I was reading the book reviews of a certain Christian book on Amazon yesterday, and stumbled upon the most astounding argument for the truth of Christianity I have ever read.
One reviewer of this book (which will go unnamed) left a fairly negative and critical review. As you may know, Amazon allows you to comment on other people’s reviews. So a Christian who was a fan of this book (and the author) commented that this was the stupidest review they had ever read… Another Christian weighed in and said that the commenter was stupid as well for just using cut-and-paste attacks upon people who write critical reviews.
Then I read this…
I laughed and laughed and laughed! It reminded me a bit of my post from a few weeks ago about Christian hate speech.
But do you see what this person wrote there at the end? It’s GENIUS!
He says:
Actually, it’s an example of one of my two irrefutable points that show Christianity is truth — the continued existence of the Church despite the continued behavior of the members of this Church.
He’s right, you know. We sure can be glad that Jesus said, “I will build my church,” for if He had left it up to us, we would have destroyed ourselves a long time ago… I imagine, however, that sometimes Jesus is shouting at us, “Stop destroying what I am building here!”
I asked him what his other irrefutable point was. I’ll let you know if he responds…
Interesting. I don’t know if I’d call it one of two irrefutable points, but it is a good point. We often overlook that Jesus said he will build the church, which has happened in spite of all the stuff people have done and said supposedly in the name of Christianity. Then again, I firmly believe that people do and say what they want to for their own purposes and profit and try to give it the stamp of validity by claiming that God told them to do it, that the Bible supports what they did and/or that they are doing it in the name of God and Christianity. “Yeah, right! Don’t you know it’s insulting to think I’m stupid enough to believe that!”
Yeah, I think he makes a good point, but I went over the top on the title of the post a bit….
Whaaat? You never do that Jer. 😉
Don’t believe everything you read Jeremy there’s a lot of wolves in sheep’s clothing out there. If you find someone saying they are believers and they attack the church as a whole you know right off that is not a true follower of Christ
Yes, but I think many religious people were saying this about Jesus as well, when he was criticizing them.
Well that’s the argument the Catholics use, how else could their church have survived the Borgias etc. Colour me a sceptic. If all Christians were distinguished by their love, like the believers in Acts wouldn’t you use that as an argument for Christianity? Islam is surviving despite the Jihadist slaughters, maybe that’s proof of its divine inspiration? After all on this argument the more corrupt a religion becomes the more likely it is to be true. I don’t buy it.
Right. Love really is the better argument for Christianity than anything else. Much better than the fact that we have simply continued to exist…
Thats really good Jeremy!
sad but true…
It is much like those who attack the Calvanists for their faith or the Armenians for theirs. I prefer to think that my faith in Jesus holds some of both of their beliefs and a few others. Some believe in a pre trib rapture, some in a mid trib rapture and others in a post trib rapture and then there are others who believe in no rapture. I would prefer if you stopped destroying the faith of these people and build around them where Jesus is building, become like Frank Viola for instance who encourages all to follow Jesus. We all have faults and failures in our faith but we cannot go wrong if we try to love our brothers and sisters and build with them no matter what their beliefs are concerning certain subjects. Jeremy, you are a great blogger and there are times that I repost your articles quite regularly but when you go into attack mode on Christians (yes, Calvanists are Christs body too) then I am afraid I must withdraw from you for awhile till you say to us “follow me as I follow Christ”.
Kenny,
I do appreciate you reading and resposting my articles from time to time.
But it is interesting… what you are saying in this post toward me and what I write is exactly what I am saying toward Calvinists about them and what they write. Is it okay for you to say it to me, but not for me to say it to them?
I have never said that Calvinists are not our brethren, and I am not attacking them, but simply showing how Calvinistic theology leads to a skewed view of God, the Gospel, and how to follow Jesus. In calling people to “follow me as I follow Christ” is it not important to point out what it looks like to follow Jesus and what it does not look like?
http://frankviola.org/2015/02/09/heresy/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wordpress%2Fviola+%28Beyond+Evangelical%29
one of the short stories contained in Giovanni Baccaccio’s (1313-1375), The Decameron, is about a devout Jewish merchant named Abraham, of Paris whose good friend wants him to convert to Christianity. So one day Abraham goes to Rome, telling his friend he wants to see the leaders of the Church, the Pope and the Curia. He wants to decide for himself whether he should convert or not. His friend knowing of the debauched and decadent ways of the Roman clergy fears Abraham will never want to convert after witnessing the corruption of the church. But when Abraham returnsn he converts, concluding that if Christianity can still be spread even when it’s hierarchy is so corrupt, it must be the true word of God.
The gates of Hades will not prevail against the Church.
In Christ,
Ron Zell
Ha! I have never heard that story before. Thanks!
Are our pastors telling us the truth?
Are Christian pastors honest with their congregations regarding the evidence for the Resurrection? Is there really a “mountain of evidence” for the Resurrection as our pastors claim or is the belief in the Resurrection based on nothing more than assumptions, second century hearsay, superstitions, and giant leaps of faith?
You MUST read this Christian pastor’s defense of the Resurrection and a review by one of his former parishioners, a man who lost his faith and is now a nonbeliever primarily due to the lack of good evidence for the Resurrection:
—A Review of LCMS Pastor John Bombaro’s Defense of the Resurrection—
(copy and paste this article title into your browser to find and read this fascinating review of the evidence for the Resurrection)
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1)
No, friend, unfortunately it is you who is being misled.
Here is even more evidence that the Resurrection is a myth: the overwhelming majority of archeologists and Near East experts now believe that the Exodus never happened. The Exodus and the Passover are just ancient Hebrew myths. Jesus believed these events were real. Jesus was wrong. Therefore, Jesus was not God.
Jesus was a good man, but just a man. When he died, his body stayed dead just as all other dead bodies stay dead.
Our pastors are not telling us the truth.
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:22)
What proof do you have that Jesus was the messiah (Christ) or that he was God the Creator?
This passage is from the epistle of First John, a book which most modern scholars do not believe was written by an eyewitness to the life of Jesus. The passage is simply the rantings of a human being, not of a god.
By the way, friend, the passage you quoted is from a book that scholars now believe is a work of fraud. The apostle Peter definitely did not write it. It was written by someone pretending to be Peter. Bottom line: it is not the word of a god, only of a dishonest man.
Peter wrote it. The scholars are lying and have deceived many.
The majority of experts on this subject are Christians, so why would they lie?
This is the issue, my friend: Prior to the internet, our pastors could tell us whatever they wanted and most of us simply accepted as fact what they said. Now we have access to tens of thousands of documents and hundreds if not thousands of experts in every field available to us at the click of a mouse.
The experts and the evidence tells us:
-there was no Exodus.
-all the stories in the first five books of the Old Testament are fiction.
-Jesus believed these events were real.
-Therefore, Jesus made a mistake.
-Therefore, Jesus was not God, just a man.
-Men do not come back to life after being dead for three days.
-Christianity is a false belief system based on superstitious myths.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. (2 Peter 2:2)
Spoken by an author who was pretending to be someone he was not (a liar and a forger).
Do you know in which century was the Second Epistle of Peter accepted into the New Testament canon? Look it up. I think you will be surprised.
John 1
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Ephesians 3
9. And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ
Colossians 1
16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Hebrews 1
1. God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
What proof do you have that any of the books from which you are quoting are the Words of God the Creator? Did Jesus write, authorize, or approve any of these books? Do you have solid proof that any of the Eleven Apostles wrote, authorized, or approved any of these books?
No. There is no such evidence.
The New Testament is a collection of writings approved by the early catholic Church, not by God. It is just a collection of human superstitions.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)
2 Peter 1
16. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 . And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 . We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 . For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thessalonians 2:13)
2 Peter 3
15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
By whose authority did the authors of these passages speak in the name of God the Creator? If your answer is “God” or “Jesus”, please be specific as to how you know that God or Jesus authorized these statements.
For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed: (2 Corinthians 10:8)
You can continue quoting statements made by men or you can give me proof that a god authorized these statements.
Your faith is in a collection of books (the New Testament) that neither Jesus nor the Eleven wrote, authorized, or approved.
Why do I need to prove anything to you? You’re the one who rejects God and has no interest in truth. You can try and appear scholarly but you know that’s not the real issue.
“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” (John 3:19-20)
I have never once said that I reject the Creator God.
I reject your imaginary god named Yahweh-Jesus. There is good evidence that a Creator God exists, but no good evidence that a god named Yahweh-Jesus exists.
How do you know this Creator God?
I don’t know if a Creator God exists.
He (or she, or they, or it) may exist; there is certainly evidence that suggests the existence of intelligent design; but until we have better evidence to determine this issue, I suggest we not jump to conclusions and accept the superstitions of ancient peoples regarding this issue.
gary says
I don’t know if a Creator God exists.
He (or she, or they, or it) may exist; there is certainly evidence that suggests the existence of intelligent design; but until we have better evidence to determine this issue, I suggest we not jump to conclusions and accept the superstitions of ancient peoples regarding this issue.
craig says
The evidence is overwhelming for the existence of intelligent design. I suggest we find out as much about Him as we can. If a Creator exists what kind of Creator is He?
• He must be supernatural in nature (as He created time and space).
• He must be powerful (exceedingly).
• He must be eternal (self-existent).
• He must be omnipresent (He created space and is not limited by it).
• He must be timeless and changeless (He created time).
• He must be immaterial because He transcends space/physical.
• He must be personal (the impersonal cannot create personality).
• He must be infinite and singular as you cannot have two infinites.
• He must be diverse yet have unity as unity and diversity exist in nature.
• He must be intelligent (supremely). Only cognitive being can produce cognitive being.
• He must be purposeful as He deliberately created everything.
• He must be moral (no moral law can be had without a giver).
• He must be caring (or no moral laws would have been given).
I think that several of these points are debatable, for instance, the massive quantity of suffering in the world is evidence that if a Creator exists, he/she/they/or it is either incredibly cruel or incredibly indifferent. But for the sake of the discussion, let’s assume all these points are true. How do you make the jump from the existence of a Creator to the claim that Yahweh-Jesus is that Creator?
The Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship at Pasadena City College sponsored a class in Christian evidences. One section of the work of this class was to consider the evidence produced by the fulfilled prophecies referring to the first advent of Christ. The students were asked to be very conservative in their probability estimates. They discussed each prophecy at length, bringing out various conditions which might affect the probability of any man fulfilling it. After discussion, the students agreed unanimously on a definite estimate as being both reasonable and conservative. At the end of the evaluations the students expressed their feelings thus: If any one were able to enter into the discussions and help in placing the estimates, as they had done, that person would certainly agree that the estimates were conservative. The estimates used in this chapter are a combination of the estimates given by this class on Christian evidences combined with estimates given me later by some twelve different classes of college students, representing more than 600 students. I have carefully weighed the estimates and have changed some to make them more conservative. If the reader does not agree with the estimates given, he may make his own estimates and then carry them through to their logical conclusions.
Consider the following eight prophecies:
1. “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting” (Micah 5:2).
This prophecy predicts that the Christ is to be born in Bethlehem. Since this is the first prophecy to be considered there are no previously set restrictions, so our question is: One man in how many, the world over, has been born in Bethlehem?
The best estimate which we can make of this comes from the attempt to find out the average population of Bethlehem, from Micah down to the present time, and divide it by the average population of the earth during the same period. One member of the class was an assistant in the library so he was assigned to get this information. He reported at the next meeting that the best determination of the ratio that he could determine was one to 280,000. Since the probable population of the earth has averaged less than two billion, the population of Bethlehem has averaged less than 7,150. Our answer may be expressed in the form that one man in 7,150/2,000,000,000 or one man in 2.8 x 105 was born in Bethlehem.
2. “Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me” (Mal. 3:1).
Our question here is: Of the men who have been born in Bethlehem, one man in how many has had a forerunner to prepare his way? John the Baptist, of course, was the forerunner of Christ. But since there appears to be no material difference between the people born in Bethlehem and those born any other place in the world, the question can just as well be general: One man in how many, the world over, has had a forerunner to prepare his way?
The students said that the prophecy apparently referred to a special messenger of God, whose one duty was to prepare the way for the work of Christ, so there is a further restriction added. The students finally agreed on one in 1,000 as being extremely conservative. Most of the members thought the estimate should be much larger. We will use the estimate as 1 in 103.
3. “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation: lowly, and riding upon … a colt the foal of an ass” (Zech. 9:9).
Our question then is: One man in how many, who was born in Bethlehem and had a forerunner, did enter Jerusalem as a king riding on a colt the foal of an ass? This becomes so restrictive that we should consider an equivalent question: One man in how many, who has entered Jerusalem as a ruler,
has entered riding on a colt the foal of an ass?
The students said that this was a very hard thing to place an estimate on. They knew of no one but Christ who had so entered. The students thought that at least in more modern times any one entering Jerusalem as a king would use a more dignified means of transportation. They agreed to place an estimate of 1 in 104. We will use 1 in 102.
4. “And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends”(Zech. 13:6).
Christ was betrayed by Judas, one of His disciples, causing Him to be put to death, wounds being made in His hands.
There seems to be no relation between the fulfillment of this prophecy and those which we have previously considered. We may then ask the question: One man in how many, the world over, has been betrayed by a friend, and that betrayal has resulted in his being wounded in his hands?
The students said that it was very rare to be betrayed by a friend, and still rarer for the betrayal to involve wounding in the hands. One in 1.000 was finally agreed upon, though most of the students would have preferred a larger number. So we will use the 1 in 103.
5. “And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver” (Zech. 11:12).
The question here is very simple: Of the people who have been betrayed, one in how many has been betrayed for exactly thirty pieces of silver?
The students thought this would be extremely rare and set their estimate as one in 10,000, or 1 in 104. We will us 1 in 103.
6. “And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prized at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord” (Zech. 11:13).
This is extremely specific. All thirty pieces of silver are not to be returned. They are to be cast down in the house of the Lord, and they are to go to the potter. You will recall that Judas in remorse tried to return the thirty pieces of silver, cut the chief priest would not accept them. So Judas threw them down on the floor of the temple and went and hanged himself. The chief priest then took the money and bought a field of the potter to bury strangers in. Our question is: One man in how many, after receiving a bribe for the betrayal of a friend, had returned the money, had it refused, had thrown it on the floor in the house of the Lord, and then had it used to purchase a field from the potter?
The students said they doubted if there has ever been another incident involving all of these items, but they agreed on an estimate of one in 100,000. They were very sure that this was conservative. So we use the estimate as 1 in 105.
7. “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth” (Isa. 53:7).
One man in how many, after fulfilling the above prophecies, when he is oppressed and afflicted and is on trial for his life, though innocent, will make no defense for himself?
Again my students said they did not know that this had ever happened in any case other than Christ’s. At least it is extremely rare, so they placed their estimate as one in 10,000 or 1 in 104. We will use 1 in 103.
8. “For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet”(Ps. 22:16).
The Jews are still looking for the coming of Christ; in fact, He might have come any time after these prophecies were written up to the present time, or even on into the future. So our question is: One man in how many, from the time of David on, has been crucified?
After studying the methods of execution down through the ages and their frequency, the students agreed to estimate this probability at one in 10,000 or 1 in 104, which we will use.
If these estimates are considered fair, one man in how many men, the world over, will fulfill all eight prophecies? This question can be answered by applying our principles of probability. In other words, by multiplying all of our estimates together, or 1 in 2.8 x 105 x 103 x 102 x 103 x 105 x 103 x 104. This gives 1 in 2.8 x 1028, where 28 means that we have 28 ciphers following the 2.8. Let us simplify and reduce the number by calling it 1 in 1028. Written out this number is 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
This is the answer to the question: One man in how many men has fulfilled these eight prophecies? But we are really concerned with the answer to the question: What is the chance that any man might have lived from the day of these prophecies down to the present time and have fulfilled all of the eight prophecies? We can answer this question by dividing our 1028 by the total number of people who have lived since the time of these prophecies. The best information available indicates the number to be about 88 billion or 8.8 x 1010.
To simplify the computation let us call the number 1011. By dividing these two numbers we find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 1017.
Editor’s note: It is probable that 88 billion or 8.8 x 1010 assumes a growth rate for the earth’s population which is much too small – that most of the people who have ever lived are still alive today – suggesting that this number may be too large by a factor of ten. If so, this will affect the final result by the same factor of ten; ten times fewer total people who might have fulfilled these prophecies means only one tenth the chance that one of them might have done it by accident. Our number would become 1018 instead of 1017. The number used in this book is very conservative.
Let us try to visualize this chance. If you mark one of ten tickets, and place all of the tickets in a hat, and thoroughly stir them, and then ask a blindfolded man to draw one, his chance of getting the right ticket is one in ten. Suppose that we take 1017 silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They will cover all of the state two feet deep. Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly, all over the state. Blindfold a man and tell him that he can travel as far s he wishes, but he must pick up one silver dollar and say that this is the right one. What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man, from their day to the present time, providing they wrote using their own wisdom.
Now these prophecies were either given by inspiration of God or the prophets just wrote them as they thought they should be. In such a case the prophets had just one chance in 1017 of having them come true in any man, but they all came true in Christ.
This means that the fulfillment of these eight prophecies alone proves that God inspired the writing of those prophecies to a definiteness which lacks only one change in 1017 of being absolute.
If these were truly prophecies (accurate predictions of events in the future), I would agree that they would give a high degree of credibility to Jesus’ claims of being divine. However, my Christian friend, I believe you are making some very big assumptions:
1. You are assuming that Matthew the tax collector,member of the Eleven and therefore eyewitness to the life of Jesus, wrote the book which we today call, “The Gospel of Matthew”, the book which makes most of these prophecy claims.
2. You are assuming that the author of this book was an eyewitness to the events that he describes.
3. You are assuming that even if the author of the Gospel of Matthew was not an eyewitness that the information which he tells was received from persons who were eyewitnesses.
4. You are assuming that the author of the Gospel of Matthew was honest and would not have fabricated false prophecies about Jesus. That he would not have used passages which he had cherry picked from the Old Testament to then shoe-horn Jesus into these passages, making things up about Jesus, all to support the Christian claim that Jesus was the messiah.
There is no mention of Jesus birth in Bethlehem, the wise men, his escape to Egypt, or the slaughter of the innocents in any of the writings of Paul or in the first Gospel written, Mark. For all we know, these details and the prophecies which they allegedly fulfilled were “Matthew’s” invention.
5. You are assuming that passages in Isaiah 53 are messianic passages. Jewish scholars say that they are not messianic passages. Jewish scholars are able to give very strong evidence that these passages are not talking about the future messiah but about the nation of Israel, referred in the singular as, “Israel” or “Jacob”.
Bottom line: Skeptics can refute every prophecy claim made by Christians. You might not accept our evidence, but you cannot use prophecy to back up the believability of the Resurrection. Only if everyone agreed that biblical prophecies have come true, when this be good evidence to use in your argument for the divinity of Jesus.
Once again, I believe that your “evidence” for the divinity of Jesus, the existence of “Yahweh”, and the historicity of the alleged Resurrection of Jesus are all based on nothing more than multiple assumptions and second century hearsay, primarily by a guy named Papias, a known mystic living in Asia Minor in circa 130 AD.
Sorry Gary, but you couldn’t be more wrong. You know and I know your anti-God, anti-Jesus, and anti-Bible theories have been sufficiently refuted time and time again over the years. I could keep listing the evidence, but you will never acknowledge your error because it’s really not an intellectual scholarly issue. The fact is you don’t want to believe in God. You don’t want to be accountable for your sin. You don’t want to believe that you’re such a sinner that it would take the death (and resurrection) of God’s Son to save you. The sad part is you know the truth, but you refuse to receive God’s gift of eternal life, because you love darkness more than light.
Romans 1
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
So you are a mind-reader? Could you detail your training in this field? The truth is that I was very happy as a Christian. I was heart-broken when I lost my faith. I lost my faith after four months of intense study of the evidence.
Here is one example of that evidence. This excerpt is from a Jewish website. I demonstrates very clearly that Christians have misinterpreted Isaiah chapter 53:
“The broad consensus among Jewish, and even some Christian commentators, that the “servant” in Isaiah 52-53 refers to the nation of Israel is understandable. Isaiah 53, which is the fourth of four renowned Servant Songs, is umbilically connected to its preceding chapters. The “servant” in each of the three previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the nation of Israel.”
Isaiah 41:8-9
But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, “You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.”
Isaiah 44:1
But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen!
Isaiah 44:21
Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you; you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.
Isaiah 45:4
For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I called you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me.
Isaiah 48:20
Go out from Babylon, flee from Chaldea, declare this with a shout of joy, proclaim it, send it out to the end of the earth; say, “The Lord has redeemed his servant Jacob!”
Isaiah 49:3
And he said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”
““The broad consensus among Jewish, and even some Christian commentators, that the “servant” in Isaiah 52-53 refers to the nation of Israel is understandable.’
…. and is someone’s opinion. I could list many commentators who’s research show that the servant refers to a person.
I don’t need to be a mind reader. You are laying your thoughts out with every post. You were either never saved and therefore had no faith to lose or you are still a Christian who’s been greatly deceived. My training consists of God making me a new creation in Christ Jesus, indwelling me with His Holy Spirit, and leading me as I study His word.
1 Corinthians 1
20. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27. But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28. And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29. That no flesh should glory in his presence.
“My training consists of God making me a new creation in Christ Jesus, indwelling me with His Holy Spirit, and leading me as I study His word.”
You have no proof of this claim other than perceived personal experiences involving the supernatural and warm, fuzzy feelings. However, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, and other believers in supernatural beings claim similar personal experiences and warm, fuzzy feelings regarding their invisible friend (god).
You have no good proof that the Creator God is your ancient, Canaanite god named Yahweh. Your “fulfilled prophecy” claim fails the test, as I have demonstrated above.
I challenge all readers to read the chapters preceding Isaiah 53 (chapters 41 thru 52) and you will see for yourself that the author of Isaiah is referring to the nation of Israel as the “suffering servant”, not to the future messiah, and therefore, not to Jesus.
The evidence strongly indicates that the author of the Gospel of Matthew went on a fishing expedition in the Book of Isaiah and in other books of the Old Testament looking for “prophecies” into which he could “shoehorn” Jesus.
Wake up, folks. You have been deceived.