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How can Christians find Fellowship? A discussion with Richard Jacobson (Hebrews 10:25)

unchurching richard jacobsonMillions of Christians have questions about church and how to find true Christian fellowship. In this podcast interview, Richard Jacobson and Jeremy Myers discuss how to be the church and why Hebrews 10:25 does not teach that all Christians must attend a church service on Sunday morning.

Church fellowship is critical, but there are a variety of ways God leads us to find this fellowship.

Links mentioned in this discussion with Richard Jacobson:

Christians Should Go to Hell

No, I am not condemning or cursing Christians to hell. Instead, I am inviting them to follow Jesus wherever He leads … even when it is straight to hell. In other words, I am saying that Jesus is leading you to go to hell. 

Let me explain.

The Gates of Hell Will Not Prevail Against It

In my book, The Death and Resurrection of the Church, I point out that the very first time Jesus talked about the church, He said that He was going to build it and that that gates of hell would not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18).

When most Christians read this, they imagine the church as this impregnable fortress, with huge white granite walls, behind which all the people of God huddle together in safety as the forces of evil attack from outside.

When most Christians read Matthew 16:18, they think Jesus is saying that the church He is building will be a place for Christians to safely wait out the onslaught of the invading hordes of hell.

But this is exactly the opposite of what Jesus says. In Matthew 16:18 Jesus says that the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. Do you see? Jesus is saying that the church He is building will go to hell and storm the gates of hell.

In other words, who has the gates and walls which keep out the invading army? Not the church, but hell.

And therefore, who is the invading army? Not hell, but the church.

When Jesus describes the church He is building, it is not the church which has the walls and gates, but hell. And it is not the devil and his forces that are attacking the gates of the church, but the church which is attacking the gates of hell. It is the church which will go to hell to rescue those who are there.

The gates of hell are under siege by Jesus and His church.

Jesus storms the gates of hellIt is not the church that is attempting to hide behind gleaming walls as against an invading army. No, it is Satan and his minions who are huddled behind their blackened walls, hoping that the gates will hold.

Jesus says they will not. Jesus says the gates of hell will not prevail. They will not stand. The gates of hell will fall to the invading church.

Of course, this presupposes that the church is on the offensive. That the church is invading hell. That the church has followed Jesus to hell. That the church will go to hell with Jesus.

It’s an exciting prospect!

But there is something else in Jesus’ statement as well.

Where is Hell? It is Here and Now

If the church is here in this world, and if Jesus is leading the church to attack the gates of hell now… then this means that hell is here and now as well.

It has been said that the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist. If that’s true, the second greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the church that hell existed only in the afterlife, and only for unbelievers.

The truth, as indicated by Jesus Himself in Matthew 16, is that hell is here and now.  Hell is a kingdom on this earth, and Jesus launched His attack on the gates of hell by inaugurating the kingdom of God on earth. We are now in the middle of a struggle between two kingdoms, and Jesus has shown us that the gates of hell will crumble and fall so that His rule and reign will cover the earth, until every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord (Rom 14:11; Php 2:10).

If the church is going to go to hell with Jesus, then this means that the gates of hell must exist here and now, on this earth, during our lives, so that we can go to hell and attack the gates.

In his excellent article, “Hell is a Kingdom,” Brad Jersak writes this:

“Hell is a kingdom, located wherever people are imprisoned and oppressed by the ‘the powers’ and death-dealers of ‘this present darkness’—whether it’s the military-industrial-complex, corporate or political beasts, or any personal affliction, addiction or obsession of choice. … Jesus is not calling the death-snares of this world hades metaphorically in anticipation of the actual subterranean post-mortem hades. Just the opposite: the afterlife mythology of hades is a metaphor for the actual human condition ‘here above.’ The rhetoric or hell is less about the eschatological future and more about educating us in the ‘two ways’ or ‘two kingdoms’ competing for our allegiance here on earth.” (Sinner Irenaeus, aka Brad Jersak, “Hell is a Kingdom: The Missing Motif Reconstructed,” 6).

The message of the kingdom of God as taught by Jesus must be read in light of the idea that hell as a present reality.

It is to the humans caught in the kingdom of hell that Jesus said, “The Kingdom of God is at hand” (Matt 4:17) This is not a promise to claim as we wait to die so we can go to heaven and spend an eternal bliss with God. This is a war cry. It is the declaration of Jesus the thief, entering into the strongman’s house, to tie him up and steal his possessions. What possessions? This world and the human beings upon it (Matt 12:29).

So the Church Should Go to Hell

the church should go to hellThe terrible, tragic reality is that while the church gets so caught up in the debate about who goes to hell, and how long they will be there, and whether or not hell is a place of eternal suffering or temporary purification, we are ignoring the people living in hell on earth all around us.

The debate about hell keeps us from helping those who are suffering in the kingdom of hell here and now. Isn’t that sadly ironic? We strengthen and enable hell by discussing and debating hell.

So where do you see the gates of hell in the lives of your family members? Where do you see the influence and power of hell in your neighborhood? Where do you see hell in your town or city? How can you go to hell by rescuing and delivering them?

Where do you see people living in addiction, bondage, guilt, shame, and fear? Where are they abused, maligned, neglected, forgotten, overlooked, abandoned, and forsaken? Where are they sold? Where are they starving? Where are they seeking love?

Wherever you see such things, you see the gates of hell.

the gates of hell

What is the plan of attack to charge these gates and tear them down? With Jesus at your side, these gates will not prevail against you.

There are two kingdoms at war in this world, the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of hell. Jesus is calling you to participate in one by storming the gates of the other.

Will you answer the call of Jesus and go to hell with Him?

This post is part of the May Synchroblog, in which numerous bloggers around the world write about the same topic on the same day. Links to the other contributors are below. Go and read what they have to say about the topic of hell.

Once upon a time, I was interviewed by Jason Wiedel

Several years ago, I was interviewed by Jason Wiedel for his podcast.

For some reason, he never aired this interview.

I don’t know why.

Maybe he forgot about it. Maybe he didn’t like what I said.

Maybe it was because my facial hair wasn’t as good as his.

Whatever the reason, I am putting this out now as a bonus episode for my podcast.

Enjoy!

God is One Verse, Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: , ,

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Hack the Theologian – Bruxy Cavey

This is part of an ongoing series where I briefly interview a theologian, pastor, author, or Bible scholar that I highly respect, and ask them to tell us a bit about themselves, their most current teaching project, and the one most important truth (the hack) they wish every Christian could learn.

I call the series “Hack the Theologian.” This doesn’t mean I think these theologians are hacks. Far from it! It means that I am trying to find (and share with you) the one thing that makes them tick, the one insight that keeps them writing and teaching, the one truth they are most passionate about, the one idea that turned their life and theology upside down. You can read the other posts in the series right here.

(Do you know an author I can highlight in this series? Have them contact me!)

So Let’s “Hack” Bruxy Cavey

Bruxy CaveyBruxy Cavey is the senior pastor at The Meeting House, a church for people who aren’t into church. The Meeting House is a multisite Anabaptist congregation in Ontario, Canada where thousands of people connect to God and each other through Sunday services, online interaction, and a widespread house church network. His newest book, (re)union, released earlier this year.

Truth be told, I only like Bruxy because of his hair. It remind me of some author author/blogger with long hair. (It’s a joke!)

Here are Bruxy’s answers to my questions:

1. Can you tell us who you are and what you do in 40 words or less? (I put the word limit so we can see what you focus on.)

I’m Jesus-loving Jesus lover, who really loves Jesus. Beyond that, I’m the teaching pastor at The Meeting House: A Church For People Who Aren’t Into Church.

2. Tell us something about yourself that few people know.

Even though I speak in front of thousands of people each week, I’m a highly skewed introvert and a mild agoraphobic. I’m basically afraid of people! When I was younger, the one super power I wished I had was invisibility. I would prefer never to be seen.

Over the years God has helped me balance this tendency to want to run away and hide with a growing, maturing love for people, which wins out on most days and I’m happy to engage and connect.

I just think it’s funny that God gave this timid INFP one simple gift – public teaching to thousands. Very funny God.

3. What is the best book you have read this past year? (It doesn’t have to be theological!)

I really enjoyed Brant Hansen’s Unoffendable: How Just One Change Can Make All of Life Better.

(re)union by Bruxy Cavey4. You have a new book, (re)union. Tell us a bit about it. What is the main point and what do you want people to learn or do?

Ever since the 1950s, when a booklet called The Four Spiritual Laws was released, Christians have learned how to talk about the good news of Jesus in terms of four basic points – God loves us, we have sinned, Jesus is the solution, we accept him by faith.

This God-Sin-Jesus-Faith pattern has been repeated in various formats throughout the decades since, such as “The Bridge to Life,” “Steps To Peace With God,” and “The Roman Road.”

And while I celebrate the truth in this way of presenting the gospel, I’m also aware of some key aspects of the gospel that are missing, such as the nature and call to enter the Kingdom of God here and now, as well as the inherent challenge to religious systems embedded within the message.

In (re)union I want to help us press the reset button on how we present the gospel, through what I call simply The Gospel in Thirty Words: Jesus is God with us, come to SHOW US God’s love, SAVE US from sin, SET UP God’s kingdom, and SHUT DOWN religion, so we can SHARE IN God’s life. (You counted, didn’t you.) [Jeremy’s Note: Yes I did!]

Also, the “target audience” is different. There are countless books out there designed to help Christians learn how to talk to non-Christians about the gospel. My hope is that (re)union will be accessible to both Christians AND non-believers to read, inviting them all to learn and grow and discuss together.

5. Karl Barth was once asked to summarize his life’s work in one sentence. He answered, “Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so.” How would you summarize your life’s work? To put this question another way, if you could get people to understand just one idea, what would it be?

God loves me, this I know, for Jesus tells me so.

Bruxy’s book, (re)union has already released. I really enjoyed it, and you can get a copy of it on Amazon right now. While you’re there, pick up a copy of his other book as well, The End of Religion. It’s one of my favorites.

God is Redeeming Theology, Theology Hack Bible & Theology Topics: , , , , ,

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Does a Muslim need to become a Christian in order to follow Jesus?

This is a guest post by Jim Baton. Jim is an author and peacemaker between Christians and Muslims. Learn more at www.jimbaton.com

Note from Jeremy Myers: If you would like to write a Guest Post for RedeemingGod, begin by reading the Guest Blogger Guidelines.

They say you can’t judge a book by its cover, but a book with a poorly arranged or offensive cover rarely tempts you to pick it up and look inside. On the other hand, packaging that’s attractive to you can move you to take a closer look.

muslim womanA few years ago a young Muslim woman came to us in great need. She had encountered Jesus through a dream and a dramatic healing, loved him whole-heartedly, and loved reading the Bible. But her family reacted as though she was betraying them and was hunting for her to kill her!

At first I thought her biggest issue would be the rejection of her family. I was surprised when she said that she came to us to learn how to tell her family about Jesus in a way they could understand. And the deepest struggle in her life was actually that she felt like a fish out of water in the church!

My family had lived for many years in a Muslim nation and understood this complex social dynamic well. The young woman had left a community where religion and extended family were a part of every aspect of her life. Losing that sense of community created a profound loneliness. She knew no one she could share this faith-journey with who was from her own language and culture.

Meanwhile, she’d been accepted into a local Christian community of a different ethnicity, language and culture, that encouraged her to dress differently (remove her head covering), eat differently (try some pork!), pray differently (fold your hands), change all her holidays (dropping Idul Fitri for Christmas), and so on.

She never felt like she belonged. She never felt like she could be herself.

Then we told her something that brought life back into her eyes. She told us this was the best news that she’d ever heard.

We told her she didn’t have to become a Christian to follow Jesus.

What did we mean by that? We meant that she didn’t need to join a local church, change her habits and holidays, or start identifying herself by the religion of “Christian.” She had already received the Gospel—she’d received Jesus. He is the Good News, and he doesn’t require us to accept him with unwanted, even offensive, packaging.

What would be better, we told her, was if she would bring Jesus into her world of head coverings and kosher food and Idul Fitri celebrations, and into her family.

Muslim burka

Jesus experienced a similar encounter in John 4 when he met the Samaritan woman at the well. The religious culture of his day dictated that there should be a firm wall between Jews and Samaritans, between men and women, between the righteous and the sinner. Jesus didn’t call out to her from his side of the wall for her to change before she could approach him. He crossed over to her side of the wall.

When she brought up the theological wall that should separate them (the proper place of worship), Jesus emphasized that what God was really looking for was worship that came from the inside—“worship in spirit and in truth.” The word “spirit” is the same word for “breath”; the word for “truth” is where we get the word “reality.” God was looking for those whose very breath called out to him; whose worship was real.

The Samaritan woman got this revelation—she could be a worshipper too, just the way she was! She raced back to tell her village, and brought Jesus home to them. So we have the very first account in history of an entire village believing in Jesus as their Messiah, and they weren’t even Jewish! They were from a different religion! They may have never accepted the truth if Jews had brought it to them in a Jewish package, but Jesus broke through every wall for them. They got the Gospel because they got Jesus.

There are people all around us from different ethnic, cultural and religious (or non-religious) backgrounds who have no interest in our churches or our institutional Christianity. They feel they wouldn’t fit in there. But that doesn’t mean they might not want Jesus. They may need to encounter him freed from our unwanted Christian packaging. It may require us going to where they are instead of waiting for them to come to us.

Today my Muslim friend still covers her head, eats no pork, and celebrates Idul Fitri. She’s also introduced her whole extended family to Jesus, and many have received him as their Messiah too. She’s learned to build friendships with Christians, while being herself, and letting Jesus incarnate once again into her skin.

She got the Gospel—she got Jesus.

What do you think of how we responded to this woman? Should we have told her that to truly follow Jesus, she needs to give up her head coverings, start eating pork, and start celebrating Christmas instead of Idul Fitri? Or was our response in line with the Gospel and the example of Jesus, as we allowed Jesus to truly incarnate Himself and the Gospel in this woman’s life, family, and culture? Share your thoughts in the comments below!

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