I like Thom Rainer. I have benefited greatly from his books and research. But his most recent book, I Am a Church Member, is severely misguided and misinformed.
I Am a Church Member appears to be intended for “Church Membership” classes in local churches. While I am not a fan of institutional churches or of the church membership classes that go with them, I do understand that if a group of believers are going to meet in an institutional way, they probably need some sort of membership rolls, and membership classes to go with them. Fine. If that is how you think it is best to follow Jesus, I have absolutely no problem with it.
So what is the problem with Thom Rainer’s book? I Am a Church Member uses guilt and fear to get new church members to do what the church leadership wants.
Let me back up.
By all reports, institutional Christianity is hemorrhaging. Every year, millions of people abandon the institutional way of doing church, not because they are abandoning God, Jesus, or the Church, but because they find that intimate relationships with others and loving service in the community apart from the systematized and scheduled meetings on Sunday morning is a more natural way of following Jesus and living life as His disciples.
Naturally, this mass exodus from the church has church leaders scared. They need people to fill their pews. Why? So that they can give their tithes, so the church building can be paid for and the pastoral salaries funded, and so that there is a place and people for all the expensive church programs.
But how do you tell church members that to truly follow Jesus, they have to attend church, give their tithes, support the church leadership, and serve in church programs?
Apparently, you get Thom Rainer to write a book about it, and get 23 prominent church leaders and seminary presidents to endorse the book, and then price the book in such a way so that scared church leaders all over the country will buy hundreds of copies of the book so they can hand it out to all the people in their “Church Membership” classes.
A Summary-Review of I Am a Church Member
Here is a basic summary of Thom’s book:
Rainer begins the book pointing out that nine out of ten American churches are declining in attendance (p. 4). His book is the proposed prescription to this problem. (But is it really a problem?)
Beginning with a terrible misunderstanding of Paul’s “Body” imagery in 1 Corinthians 12-14 and how every “member” of the Body needs every other member, Rainer uses six chapters to propose six commitments that every new church member must make to the church they are attending. The six commitments are actually six popular cliches which church leaders around the world love to use in sermons and in publications to guilt church people into being regular church attendees.
The best (read: worst) part about each chapter, is that they conclude with a pledge for the reader to sign and date! I can almost visualize the conclusion of each week in the Membership classes, where the Pastor (or Elder) teaching the class get everybody to stand and say the pledge out loud, and then collects copies of everyone’s pledge to be stored in the person’s “Membership File” so that if they ever get out of hand, the pastor can pull their file and say, “See? You made a commitment. You signed on the dotted line. Are you going to break your word? Are you a liar? You know where liars go, don’t you?”
That may be a bit over the top, but you get the gist…. and if you have ever sat through one of these meetings, you know that this is pretty much how they go… See this satirical video.
The Six Commitment in I Am A Church Member
Here are Rainer’s six recommended commitments (summarized and reworded for this review):
- I will devote as much time and energy to my local church as possible, because if I don’t, I am letting Jesus down.
- Nobody is perfect. Not even my pastor. So I won’t talk or think negatively about him in any way, or challenge anything he says or does, because doing so would damage the gospel.
- Church isn’t about me. Even if I don’t like the music, can’t stand the preaching, there’s nothing for my kids, and I think the church is wasting my time and money, I will still attend faithfully.
- No matter what, I will support my pastor and pray for him every single day.
- I will bring my entire family to church with me, because the future of my family, the church, and the entire world depend on it.
- I love being a member of this church, and I never, ever, want to stop being a member. It’s the best! I promise. It’s a gift from God.
Yes, yes, my summaries are a bit snarky. But if you read Thom’s book, you will see that my summaries are not that far off from what he actually wrote. I am using satire to point out how guilt-laden and performance-driven these commitments are.
Why do I feel so strongly about this? Because I am tired of church leaders with expensive church buildings and bloated church budgets trying to shore up their ineffective church programs by demanding further sacrifice and greater commitments from tired and weary church members. What ever happened to “my yoke is easy and my burden is light”?
While there may be some people are leaving institutional Christianity because they are rebelling against God or forsaking Jesus, the vast majority are leaving so that they can better follow Jesus into the world. Isn’t this something to be praised and encouraged?
Look, being a church member has nothing to do with sitting in a pew on Sunday morning, listening to a sermon and praying for your pastor, giving your money to support a local church budget, and making commitments to serve on a church ministry program.
Are we all members of one Body? Yes. Does every member need every other member? Of course.
And that is exactly why so many millions of people are leaving institutional Christianity. It is not because they don’t want to be members of Christ’s church, but because they are members of Christ’s church, the Body, and have found that Jesus wants them to serve the Body and love the world in ways that waste less time and money.
Look, I am not against people attending church. Truly. I am not. I am not against “Church Membership” for people who attend church. The way that system is set up, “Church Membership” is a good idea. What saddens me is that church leaders think that people who “leave their church” are forsaking Jesus, abandoning the church, and living in rebellion against God.
Just once, I would love for a mega-church pastor or a prominent church author to come out and announce a blessing upon all those people who are leaving their church to follow Jesus in tangible and loving ways in the community. Why cannot church leaders see themselves as “sending these people out into the world” rather than see them as “leaving the church”?
So if Thom Rainer ever reads this review, I would invite him to write a follow-up book which church pastors can hand out to people who are leaving their church. It could be titled, I Am a Church Member (…even if I don’t attend church). The book would contain no pledges, no dotted lines upon which to sign, and no guilt trips. Instead, it would contain a commitment on the part of the church leadership to not condemn or criticize those who leave institutional Christianity, but to bless them and thank them for being the church by following Jesus in ways that take great courage and creativity.
I beg Thom Rainer (and all the Seminary Presidents and Mega Church Pastors who endorsed I Am a Church Member) to recognize that many people may be leaving the institutional church, not because they have given up on church, are abandoning Jesus, or are bad church members, but because they are good church members and they want to be the church by following Jesus into their neighborhoods and communities.
Very well said. I kind of wanted to read this but your review is pretty much what I expected. The defenders of institutionalized Christianity are in a panic over dwindling numbers but rather than ask why people are leaving and wondering if perhaps there is a reason they resort to guilt trips and subtle threats to keep people showing up.
Yes, I think there is a bit of panic setting in. This always happens when the ship is sinking. But as some are seeing, the church is not dying, but is rising up from the ashes, and she is beautiful to behold!
Yes you are part of the problem, not the solution when you encourage others to leave the Church Jesus died for in the Scriptures. Remember Jesus said “If you are not gathering with Me, you are scattering with the Enemy, Satan.”
Leaving institutional Christianity is not the same thing as leaving the church. Church, the body of Christ, includes much more than institutional Christianity.
Isn’t it funny how you can not add any Scripture to your beliefs. Might want to reconsider the Church after all, she is what Jesus is coming back for!!!!!!!
Amen!!
I have read this book and the author of this article is way off base. Your vision of pastors leading this in a class and putting things in files is way off base. This is a great book and gives us very good information. The author of this article has added a few things that just aren’t there. There are committments at the end of each chapter if you want to make them, but not quite like what was stated here. If you want to know about this book, read it for yourself. It is small and an easy read, but it is full of very good information. Being a church member does not mean that you are served all the time. Church is not a club and should not be treated as such. We as Christians are called to do the serving. That means all of us. Jesus did not join a club and set down and wait to be served. He worked at getting the good news out to the people and we should too. I so dislike it when I see people take something good and make it out to be bad. So sad. Read the book for yourself. I love the church and so does God! Leaving it is wrong.
Debbie,
You do know that thousands of pastors around the country are using this book in exactly the way I have described above? They do lead classes. They do ask the class to sign the commitment forms. They do keep files on their church members.
If this is not happening in your church, that is wonderful! But out of curiosity, has your pastor recommended this book?
Anyway, I am not calling on anyone to leave the church either. I want people to follow Jesus so that they can be the church, even if that means not sitting in a pew on Sunday morning.
Jeremy,
For one that is so eager to point out the nuances between individuals who leave the church and those who leave to follow Christ, you are equally eager to groups all kinds of church bodies and leaders together. Though you are quick to add that you are tolerant of those who choose to attend, it is very plain that you really don’t actually respect them.
I agree with other that have pointed out that you tend to use sarcasm; though again you blame the screen for the lack of tone.
You are pointing your reveiw in such a way to say that only wolves would use this book to attack the sheep. You don’t present the facts in a way that allows a person to reason out for themselves if they are interested, you just hit them over the head with your opinion. That seems controlling in my mind.
Although, it is your reveiw and you should be able to speak your opinion, so if sarcasm is your choice, by all means.
I would be careful about making broad statements that blanket the universal church, that is, Christ’s bride. God saw fit to establish leadership in his kingdom. He has very specific criteria in place to determine the worthiness of those who would watch and care for His sheep. Paul asked for those he fathered in the faith to pray for him, because it is difficult work.
Elders and teachers are judged more strictly and scripture says we are to treat them with honor. It doesn’t mean every pastor is perfect or that they are without flaw. Not every husband is perfect either, but I am called to submit to my husband. Does that only mean when he is perfect? No, because no human is perfect.
When I submit to my husband, I am actually submitting to the Lord because I believe in His word. The same goes for trusting and honoring our leadership. Because God saw fit to set up His kingdom this way, not man.
I feel blessed to have a church that all are welcome to come to, where we can openly worship our God without the persecution that our brothers and sisters overseas endure.
Sarah,
I think maybe you have not read many posts on my blog, and have jumped to conclusions about how I view church and church-going Christians.
Regardless, one of the drawbacks of writing books and blogs is that tone of voice does not always come across to readers in the way the writer intended. I did not write this review with sarcasm in mind, but with love and concern.
I am deeply concerned that people who want to follow Jesus outside the four walls of Christianity might read this book and think that doing so would be sinful. I wish that in his book, Rainer had recognized that this was a viable alternative, and that “church membership” has nothing to do with sitting in a pew, signing a doctrinal statement, or serving in a church program.
Anyway, I do apologize for the way the review came across. Maybe I should try to edit it so that the tone is read as I intended.
You know that the Pastor is responsible for the sheep. The sheep just cannot running lose with out any accountability. You have lost sheep that needs to be brought into the sheep fold. Jeremy you said that one does not have to attend the church and still be a church member. If you are a member of a club and never attends it, sooner are later you will be a non-member. If you are going to do a review on this book you should back it up with Scripture. If you think what you saying is right, prove it through the Scriptures. “How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?” We have to learn the foundation first then we can start Missional Communities which leads to planted churches. You also said that people are leaving institutional Christianity. The church is not an institution and Christians are followers of Christ and if they leave Christianity they are leaving Christ. This is why in the book of Acts the church formed. It seems like you have a bad experience in a church and in the book of Revelation God brought churches like this out. I don’t think the author got it we are just doing it wrong. Have a Grace Day.
I agree with most evrything youbare saying James.
Jeremy, and the satire quotes are not actual quotes Thom Rainer said in the book–though youpresented them such. If you do an honest review you would used his words, not what your twisted view of his words. The book intent is not to beat sheep into submission, but to encourage unity, community, and support for the body of Christmas so we can effectively reach out to those who need redemption.
@James
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
I too have been hurt and let down by institutional Christianity. However, I think Thom Rainer is pretty spot on when it comes to what a Christian mindset should be toward being part of the body of Christ (AKA church membership). I think the principles that are set forth in this book could (and should) be applied to the way Christians act toward each other anytime and anywhere, whether it’s a formal gathering or not.
Jeremy Myers you said “You do know that thousands of pastors around the country are using this book in exactly the way I have described above?” How do you know this? What evidence do you have to substantiate your claim or are you just hypothesizing something and then stating it as a fact? Where are the surveys, polls, statistics, etc. to back up this claim of yours?
I have been a pastor for 5 years and I am in the trenches of ministry. I am a seminary graduate. I also work a secular job and I am not even paid by the church that I serve. Some of these points makes perfect sense because no one in my church community can accuse me of wanting the numbers or the perks that supposedly goes with leadership. As soon as God would have it, I wouldn’t even serve as a pastor and with number dwindling I would prefer to be an effective “CELL GROUP” killing the overhead, church drama and get down to the nuts and bolts of ministry. Regardless of how we feel, the church will survive. It just won’t look like the mess that we present in the South!!!!
No one should allow one persons review of a book or movement as their only information. It is so easy to find the faults of others in their writing, sermons, blogs and other actions. We may not all agree with how to build the church, the body of believers but we should all work together. The church will be alive and well until Christ return, but parts of the body will not. There are many parts of the church that are striving and many that are not. We have to sad practice to point out only the negative of each other. I am a pastor of a small church and love the followers I serve, but we have problems too. I look at this books as a resource for us… some things we will use and others we will not. We need to get away from the movement of the world of being ‘Politically Correct” or for us “Church Correct”. Even the disciples did not agree on how to do all things, but they worked together and not against each other. My prayer is that we seek His face, repent of our sin and return to Him. Praying that each seeks God’s direction for their life and not try to redirect that of others. There are too many people dying and going to hell as we argue. I love being part of the church, the followers of Christ the believers… may we all strive to live for Him each and every day.
The truth is, most people who are leaving the church are not going out into the world to minister in the community. They are going out in the world and being wrapped up in postmodernist thinking. They are adapting pluralism as a worldview and are living lives in unchecked sin. The church is how God gets the soldiers of the Lord’s army into the battlefield that is the world outside of the church. I agree with Rainer. If the church is not what God intended we should look at ourselves in the mirror and evaluate our part in the problem. Rainer is obviously trying to get people’s attitudes away from selfish thinking into a place where they think highly of the church and the members of Christ’s body. This does not mean people are not held accountable, this means we understand that Christ died for sinful men, including me and including every person writing comments here. In Him!
This book does smack of desperation. It seems as if the real goal is to preserve the institution, and following Jesus and loving others has been all but forgotten.
We temporarily attended two churches that had similar ideas. One required that people sign a similar list of “commitments” when joining. The other had a sheet you were supposed to sign each week, that among other things said you had tithed that week, hadn’t sinned, had prayed and read the Bible each day, and more. People signed these items, but didn’t do what they had agreed to do. We didn’t sign and didn’t stay.
Thats so ridiculous. It’s all about control and money it seems like.
You have to show me were in the book that it says it about control and money.
Ah, the typical claim made against churches, as a whole, when someone can’t find anything else to criticize them for!
Yes, these commitments are quite common. When I was a pastor, we actually had “attendance” rosters we would pass around. We “said” it was so I could call the people who missed and tell them that they were missed and to see if there was any help they needed, but really, it was a way to put a guilt trip on people for missing a Sunday service.
Jeremy,
Very sorry for what you did as a pastor to “manipulate” with attendance rosters. But, as a pastor, the records we keep aren’t bantered around for us to be impressive or used as tools of guilt. They are simply ways to see if people are there and follow up with them.
There are several points you make in your article that I can agree with and embrace, but the sarcasm you use is so cutting that it makes it hard to accept any of it. And, while Jesus, Paul and the biblical authors used effective irony, cutting sarcasm is rarely – if ever – used.
You wrote, “You do know that thousands of pastors around the country are using this book in exactly the way I have described above?”
Have you really polled thousands of pastors using this book? I am looking over this book, and as of yet, have not used it. But, either way, the sarcastic shots at many men who honestly just want to see God work in the lives of people and who pour their lives into people as pastors and leaders is not constructive.
Take some of your thoughts, present them with grace and…who knows…maybe you’ll learn some things as well as teaching some others.
Thank you for the kind comment, Johnny. I did not have sarcasm in mind when I wrote anything above. It is difficult to show tone of voice in written text. I am sorry the comments came out that way.
As to thousands of pastors using the book, I got that off of one of the Rainey’s websites, or maybe it was some other source for churches that were planning to use this book. I wish I had referenced the exact site now…
So, are you admitting that you as a pastor were a deceiver to your congregation with just “saying” it was for a different purpose by having a roll for the classes, Jeremy? That you also were trying to guilt members for their attendance issues? Could it be “said” that your review of this book is also an attempt to deceive those who are reading currently and that it is highly possible the guilt trip, or as I like to call it, conviction is all yours?
Shane,
Yes, as a pastor, I did deceive and manipulate people. I have repented of many of the things I said and did as a pastor. As a pastor, I did not deceive intentionally, but looking back, I was clearly manipulating the people into what I thought was best for them. I was wrong.
Could it be said that my review of this book is also wrong? Of course it could be said. I think maybe you did say it…. Is that what is in my heart? No. Could I be self-deceived just as I was as a pastor? Sure. Why not? I am not infallible.
If I am wrong, I trust that God will lead me to see my error, just as He has so many times previously.
Wow…that is not right…
Wait a mo! You had to sign a statement you hadn’t sinned? That’s tantamount to blasphemy surely? At the very least it shows an astonishing lack of self awareness on the part of those who signed. I don’t mean offence if you signed, but how could you even pay lip service to the idea you could have gone a week without sinning? Was it a church that preached perfectionism? I’m not going to say perfection is impossible, though it seems to be ruled out by 1 John 1:8, but the idea of a whole church of people thinking they are perfect kind of blows my mind.
It was a church that preached perfection. We did not sign the statement and did not stay at the church. Nor did we sign similar statements we ran into at a couple of other churches. We saw them as attempts to exert control over those who signed, especially in keeping their doctrine “pure”, and in assuring the money would come into the church.
I know a fellow who told me that he had once attended a church where everyone was supposed to confess their sins to each other each week. One week he told them he hadn’t sinned that week. They told him he’d better confess to the sin of lying. Sounds like a joke, but it was true.
I must say that Church is more in tune with 1 John 1:8 at least! Don’t know Jeremy’s feelings on perfectionism.
As a pastor I am not panicked. In fact I do not know any pastor who is. But we are concerned. Your article is not well thought out and your remarks are full of satire. Why would you spend so much time rescuing people from the church or rescuing scripture as you put it? People need to be rescued from sin, not from the church.
They think the numbers are dwindling now, just wait another generation.
But it doesn’t matter because God is ‘writing His laws in our hearts’ and we are ‘walking temples’. Men like Thom Rainer and mega church pastors defend the institution because their livelihoods depend on it and those in power are afraid to lose it.
Very true. I think the exodus from “church” we are seeing today is just the beginning.
I admit I did not read this whole blog post, because you are preaching to the choir with me. Sounds like a book to prop up the livelihood built into Christendom for those who use it as a job. Because for those who Christianity is more of a vocation, well they make their livelihood by partaking in life.
I am sorry but I pastor a church and don’t use church as a vocation. I work a 40+ hour job outside the church. I could care less about the tithes and offerings coming in because I know God will provide for what my church needs. I have read the book and think that the book is very valid in the fact that “Church” today fluff their numbers and have few true followers. We have pew fillers and not Christ followers. If we as the body functioned like the body then we would be healthy. His 6 points he make are good. It take people and gets them to stop thinking about themselves and their own pitty parties but to think about the body of Christ. Functioning in the church, unity in the church, making it NOT about us, praying for those that are trying to lead the church and having to deal with defending Christ on a regular basis and being the targets they are, being a church member is in the family and showing them how to serve God in the family, that we being able to meet and gather collectively is a gift and even the apostles did it and encouraged it.
So I do believe that some pastors are misusing this book but I personally am using this book as a refresher and wake up call to the life that God has called all of us to.
AMEN to that brother. I believe our good LORD Yeshua is working in you. God Blesses you with the power and understanding from knowledge of Our Holy spirit.. You are truly Blessed, keep up the good works Jeremy.. AMEN AMEN
Thanks! Nice pic. Where is that?
You have a rather harsh view of Church leadership. Trust me going 90,000 dollars into debt to receive a masters of divinity and then expecting to make 24,000 a year does not really strike me as being in it for the money. I think all Christians come to a point in their faith were they look at the Church and say this looks nothing like Christ and they have a choice throw the baby out with the bath water or work to make the institution Christ like.
Good luck with that Dan
Dan,
As a pastor and a long term “member” of the Church, I pretty much agree with Jeremy, and you make exactly my point. Where in the bible do we find the “position” of pastor requiring a $90k seminary degree? Do the seminaries really exist for the good of Christ’s Body, or for the perpetuation of a man-made system? You decide, just like the secular colleges, you spend a tom of money, get a low paying job to start out then work your way up in a company or change to a better paying company. The difference is we change company to “church” and suddenly our job is a holy calling, and when we leave the little church that doesn’t pay much to go to a bigger church that pays more we can say “God is leading us” instead of I am taking a better paying job. I know that some people have taken scripture out of context to say that “pastors” somehow deserve a large salary, and the denomination have decided that in order to protect their brand of doctrine have decided to require seminary training. But pastors are few and far between that leave a good paying church to go to a smaller lower paying church, or to a church where they take no salary at all.
All of this to say this, the “church” is Christ’s body, made up of all who believe him anywhere at any time, and they are all members, we do not need commitment forms or covenants in order to determine who is in or out. We do not need buildings that sit empty six days a week, and we do not need a single paid staff member to carry out God’s mission. We can do everything that the church in the New Testament did without any pseudo-professional ministers drawing salaries to pay off their student loans, and the sad part is that we could probably do it much better and much more efficiently without any of these things.
Pastor FedEx
Seminaries are businesses that hire employees, some of whom are professors. They exist to teach a certain set of doctrines/beliefs to people who want to be indoctrinated in that system, which will convince certain types of churches that they are “experts” in doctrine and perhaps Bible and therefore should make a valued employee who will perpetuate the beliefs of the group.
Sam,
Exactly, its no different than any other paraprofessional. Architects or doctors or lawyers, they go to school, get a degree, and then get on with a company and hope to move their way up. In church, we call moving up growing your church, or being “led by God” to another church(almost always with more pay or potential). I think it devalues the spiritual gift of pastor and replaces it instead with a career field.
FedEx
Edwin,
You make great points, and I love your emphasis on ministry. I think your perspective is pretty balanced. Thanks for weighing in.
I am not in seminary to make money plain and simple if I wanted to make money I would have continued in history or law. I am going into a denomination that 80% of its churches are less than 50 members. You might not value a education in counseling, theology, scripture, and biblical language but I do and I believe it will better equip me. My denomination does not require a seminary degree to be a licensed minister, in fact most do not. Mine even offers online classes to obtain a basics at minimal cost. I am going to arguably the best seminary to get the best education to do my best job ministering to people.
Dan, it is unfair to say that I don’t value education. I have spent the last 30 years as a student of the bible, sitting at the feet of pastors, professors, bible teachers, philosophers, counselors, and others as well as spent hundreds of hours listening to recorded teaching. I value education in as much as it makes me more like Christ, but most seminary graduates I have met act nothing like Christ. What I oppose is going into debt for education, taking on burdens that often become hinderences to the ministry. I believe in “freely you have received, now freely give”, meaning I teach all who I can without charge and seek out those who will teach me. Surprisingly, several seminary professors have been among those who freely gave to me. If your conscience allows you to incur this much debt knowing you will struggle to repay it, that is between you and God. I just oppose running places of learning about God like the secular schools are operated. Just my opinion, learning about God is a lifelong process or journey, if you will, not a business to be sold through institutions of man.
Pastor FedEx
I tend to agree with Edwin and Jeremy. I like Thom’s work also but this book leaves me cold. I “think” I know where he is coming from however. I am a pastor and this is my 51st year with the Lord…my Jubilee year. If churches are dwindling and failing (and I think they are), we would be wise to try to find out why.
I know that we live in a modern society, but surely, if the word of God is what we believe it is, the Holy Spirit is who we believe he is, Jesus never changes and He said that He would build His Church, why are we now so different?
Are we replacing His agenda with our own programs and projects; our theologies and theories, denominationalism and other “ism’s” including making the ministry a career and the need to have expensive church buildings that sit empty for most of the week?
Unchurched people see all this and they see our divisions, petty differences and wimpy religion and do not want it.
Perhaps churches are dwindling because the people still love the Lord and are not being fed in ways that work, so turning to Him in a different way to the traditional norm.
If we were really doing it God’s way, how come the Lord is no longer adding daily to the church and the things we see in scripture happening?
I have closed my church and am now creating home based churches…with appropriate oversight etc. believing that this was the original pattern we have drifted away from.
Dan,
I actually did get that much debt getting a TH.M. And I made that much money in my first two churches. Actually, the second one paid me $30k. But few want to pastor small churches. Many pastors (including myself) wanted to pastor large churches. Did you hear that Furtick is building himself a $1.7 million dollar mansion?
That amount of spending is ridiculous, when I said 90,000 I was serious, I think that’s how much I am going to end up with.
I hate to say it, but you are probably right. I worked a lot, and got some grants and scholarships, and interest-free loans from family. So that helped a bit. Where are you going?
I have mixed feelings about the concept of people leaving church. I currently teach Sunday School at the church I go to because I was asked to after our church went through a split. I do not however, believe in church membership beyond the concept of ‘if i am a christian, then i am automatically a member of the church, His bride, and therefore do not need to make any further pledges or committtments.’ I do however, believe that in order to continue to remain healthy, I should be knit in with a local body of believers. I think that means I need to pray about where Jesus wants me and it’s ok if that means I don’t show up everytime the door is open other than those times I have already obligated myself such as Sunday School. I believe the reason people are leaving church in droves is because the gospel is not being preached in a way that challenges people to go deeper in their relationship with God, in which their lives are transformed and they are in turn discipling others. Why, because if that were to happen, pastors would lose control over ‘their’ flock. The ones that are really understand this don’t worry about church membership because -surprise- when thy are faithful to do as God wants, they always find that God pays the bills whether people are faithful to give or not.
Good points, Jennifer. I agree also that being a follower of Jesus means some sort of tangible connection with other believers so that together, we can live life and serve others. But I don’t think that most people on the membership rolls of churches truly have this connection with others, nor will signing on a dotted line get it for them.
This is another classic example of institutional leadership failing and/or refusing to see that the institution and the church are two completely separate things. The church is of God’s making, while the institution is man’s creation. As Christendom continues its collapse, we’ll see more and more of these guilt-inducing types of books. Yuck.
Jeremy, thanks for reviewing this one. What you wrote needs to be said.
Thanks, Eric. We probably will see more of these sorts of books. Usually, I like what Rainer writes, so I was a bit surprised to read this book.
Since 2005, I just could not put a finger on why I had the feeling that there was something wrong with my church. I are attended School practically every Sunday, but continued having the feeling something was wrong. Well, one Sunday, our pastor quoted Rick Warren during the sermon. Ah ha! A light bulb went off in my mind. When I got home, I looked up Rick Warrens’s book, The Purpose Driven Church. Everything fell into place. Song books no longer used, use of overhead projectors for songs, very little singing of familiar hymns, taped music, piano playing for maybe one song, no longer have a choir, altar removed, one strong Sunday School class broken up, to name a few things happening. Oh, and the most important thing – what I call half sermons, or feel good sermons. Redemption, sin, Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, no mention of anything that makes us want to accept Jesus Christ as our Savior. I have quit attending church, because I want a church that puts the Bible first and not Rick Warren. Now, I am told by friends, that this book,” I am a Church Member”, is going to be taught in small groups at the church. Many people have left the church, because of the pastor following the recommendations of Rick Warren. Also , Rick doesn’t care if the “pillars” of the church leave – they just hold up the progress of his business model church. The irony of all this is that our church has always said they don’t have members, and now they are contradicting themselves.
My dear sister in Christ,
You are a remnant. I am too. Remnant believers are tired of “doing” church and just want Jesus! We are to fellowship with other like-minded believers in order to glorify the Lord………not encourage some program for church growth. The first century church didn’t worry about the growth of the church…………the Lord did. And the Lord gave the increase……………not US! The emphasis should ALWAYS be on the LORD.
Great review. I am institutional in my service of The Lord, but I see the value in the way you talk about. I recently have come to the attention of simple/primitive church, & am fascinated by its possibilities.
Great, Tony! I have sometimes been overly critical of institutional settings, but see that they play a large role in the Kingdom of God as well. Thanks for serving as you do!
I tried to post two comments earlier but I guess putting in a link was seen as spam. Anyway – this is interesting to me considering I just posted something in line with this topic on my blog: HonorGodsWord.com – “Church Cannibalism”
Not sure why that happened. Sorry!
Jeremy,
Good review, Was probably not going to read this anyway. I had my fill of this type of preaching and teaching. It saddens me that people are using the Bible to defend an institution that looks and acts nothing like the “Church” found in the bible. I really feel that the exodus of people from institutionalized church is just beginning. There will be some that stay, but the competition between churches over that ever dwindling group will become very interesting. The western church has a lot to answer for as far as what they have done with God;s resources and how they have treated people and I am not sure that the institutional church as we have known it will survive another generation or two.
It would be good if this competition could cease, and we could all work together in unity, right? Whether it is “institutional” churches or “organic/simple” fellowships.
I also agree with the commentary about this book and most local churches in America. So how should followers of Christ be a part of a local community of believers? Seems that we should be trying to change the way the existing local church operates rather than walking away. Thoughts or successes on how local believers have come together to live out the Body of Christ?
A large portion of the posts on this blog give just such practical examples. Search for some of the posts by “Sam Riviera” to get a good start.
The church I am currently attending is not only pressuring the obviously faithless for tithes, they are now selling bricks for $85.00 to place in a crosswalk in front of the church…ugh. They also separate the attendees into classes with those who attend, and those who are “partners”. I agree with a previous poster that Jesus said our burdens would be light. With all these mega-type churches pressuring people it is no wonder people are leaving the church. Oh, and the pastoral staff of 5 or 6 take a $500,000 salary. I would really like to find a home church…
Did you buy a brick or two? Just kidding.
What is the goal? Is it is a new church building?
No, they are just constantly trying to get more money out of the disobedient
Jeremy, I’m wondering how you came to the conclusion that most people who are leaving churches are doing so to better follow Jesus? That’s not my impression, but I’m hoping you’re right. Can you persuade me with any evidence?
Just my own experience in my own life and through interacting with thousands of others. But the question can be turned around as well. Where is the evidence that people who follow Jesus outside of the four walls of the church building are doing a worse job of following Jesus than those who remain within that setting?
I don’t dare claim that those who follow Jesus outside the traditional church model are doing a worse job. I haven’t any evidence one way or the other, actually – outside of experiential. Honestly, my comment was not a challenge but a sincere inquiry. Those that I have known who have left traditional church did so for less noble reasons than your post describes. My main concern is that people become like Jesus and thrive in His kingdom. Like you, I am convinced that we need other disciples to be a part of that process with us, but I don’t claim that you need a particular building or organizational machinery. I was just hoping to have my own impressions (based on my own experiences) balanced with what you’ve seen in sincere disciples who leave the traditional model and find something more biblically effective.
Ryan, my wife and I left the building and follow Jesus outside the building. We know those who checked out churches for awhile, grew totally disillusioned based on what they experienced and just chucked the whole church/Jesus thing. However, we have our doubts that most of them were Jesus followers anyway.
Our experience is that our churches are filled with what we call religious people, but only some of them are Jesus followers. Most church people seem to be into political and religious causes, go to church to “network”, and so on.
Admittedly, as Jesus followers we “need other disciples”, but we weren’t finding them “in church”. We’ve found them on the street and in the neighborhood. Many can’t figure out how to do that. The stuff I’ve written on topics like getting to know neighbors and being the church in the community doesn’t seem to connect with church people, who usually think church is about sermons, a belief system, music, political causes to be for or against and so on.
For many of us “church” was about lots of things, but Jesus some how got lost in the shuffle a long time ago. Sure, mention his name, use the Bible and so on. But follow him and do what he modeled? – Huh? Isn’t that stuff first century?
Ryan,
I don’t know how to explain or defend it. It also is just my experience. I see the Kingdom of God unfolding in ways never before imagined or expected, not just among those who name of the name of Jesus, but among those we relate to also.
I like how you ask where the pastors are who would be wiling to bless those who left the building to be able to follow Jesus and the Spirit better… a blessing would be nice change.
Yes, rather than judgment and sometimes slander.
Deidre, I should think that I would be one such pastor. Unfortunately, I’ve not dealt with anyone who ‘left the building’ for that reason. If I did, I would like to think that I’d encourage them to find a community of disciples who would help them follow Jesus more effectively. Hypotheticals are easy, though, I guess 🙂 I have blessed those who chose to go to another congregation, though. What Jesus wants for that person is that they become like Him – and he/she can do that in all kinds of different communities of disciples.
Good insight! I must admit that I’m tempted to leave any or every church I’ve attended. I’m a music director at a local assembly. D.T.S. has a responsibility to” do what they say they believe in.” Ephesians 4:11-12. As one who assembles… lets stick to the text, Hebrews10:25, Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another-and all the more as you see the Day approaching. It is the religiosity from church growth books, membership duties, vain promises that our Savior rebelled against in His day as Son of God, Son of Man, Let scripture super exceed any of mans futile attempts to be purpose driven, or a “church Member”
I love Art’s blog! I will go check out that post.
It seems you are misusing the term “institutional.” Organized is a better term. The Bible gives specific responsibilities to pastors/elders that require a certain amount of organization. For instance, a pastor is to give an account of how he shepherds the flock that God has given him. This implies that he must know who makes up his flock, teach, rebuke, and exhort them with all long suffering. The pastor must, therefore, keep tract of who is in his flock, and how they are doing spiritually, physical, etc. The pastor is required by God to care for the individual believer who is a member of his flock and not the members of another flock. Furthermore, the care for the members of the body sometimes requires rebuking, or even excommunication. These basic requirements placed on the church leadership require that the church must have a membership role. For how can a pastor be held accountable for an unknown person? How can a person be excommunicated from an organized body that doesn’t exist? I’m suspecting that were we to delve into theological positions we would find much disagreement. That is not unusual among Christians. However, at present I sense that it is a root of bitterness that is fueling your discontented attack against local churches. If you are indeed sincere in your attempt to dismantle the organization of the church, then may I suggest that that you might be getting your ideas from that evil one that most desires to dismantle the church? Consider James 3:13-18 brother.
There are different ways to organize, so when I use the term “institutional” I refer to the form of church organization where there is a building, a hierarchy of clergy (some of whom are paid) who are separate from the laity, a constitution and bylaws, and other similar structures and symbols. There are other ways to organize church which have none of these things, but which are still “church.”
As such, I am not trying to dismantle the church, but build it up and encourage the church to grow in healthy and holistic directions. Ultimately, I desire that the church follow Jesus into the world by loving and serving others.
Many of us use other church “models”, but that does not make you or us bitter or evil. We are not interested in investing billions of dollars in properties, staffs and programs when there are people living in the streets and in abject poverty nearby.
We are getting ready to do a Bible Study at my church on this and I will get back to you to voice my opinion. Thanks for the review.
We are getting ready to do a study of the book at my church. I will get back with my views. Thanks for the forum.
I look forward to hearing what you think about it.
Thanks for the invitation to read this book. I had actually just read it. I understand your points about the institutional church not being the ultimate way to serve Jesus. I also am not naive about the direction and pressure of our culture today. We are constantly bombarded by invitations to step further and further away from God. Hopefully people will reach a point in their faith when they have personally disciplined themselves to avoid most of those temptations. Until that time, personal discipleship needs others to help and guide. The institutional church is a place where an anchor can be driven. It will not be perfect, it will not be even close, but it will provide a place to return to and will also provide a place to battle back against our culture. It will provide an opportunity for those who are seeking and growing who don’t happen to run into a community-minded missionary to mentor them. It is also a place to become a community-minded missional Christian to use as a home base. Yes, a couple of the pledges are designed to strengthen the instutition, but many of them are about praying for others, supporting those whom God has called to lead and I believe a major theme of the book is discoving. Any book will fall short of meeting every situation, but this one is a good general call to at least think about our personal ministry and how it applies to group ministry.
Kyle,
You are right that an institutional church can be a place where an anchor can be driven. I just want people to think through the reasons why they attend an institutional church. For many, it is simply tradition and because “this is what Christians do.”
As long as someone realizes that there are other ways of being the church and following Jesus, but they believe that “attending church” on Sunday is helpful for them in following Jesus, then I am all for it!
Our pastor held this book up last Sunday and basically preached from it. This week our community groups have been instructed to discuss the six pledges to reinforce what was spoken about from the pulpit. What bothers me most is that so many of the Scripture references that are used to support the pledges are taken out of context and really have little or nothing to do with the author’s theories.I believe God will hold this man and those who abuse God’s Word accountable. I have not read the book—my church is already living through enough spiritual abuse on the part of its leaders that I really don’t think I can stomach any more! I lead one of these community groups and believe me, we will look at the Scriptures and be like the Bereans and find out for ourselves “whether these things are true.”
I had that concern too when I read the book. Good job being a Berean.
But don’t cause too much controversy over this in your small group. It doesn’t pay to be divisive and to seek to undermine others. If you are uncomfortable, it might be time to quietly leave the church, but raising a ruckus might not be wise.
Absolutely! (on being divisive etc.) Two wrongs never make a right.
On the plus side of the whole issue is the certainty that God is sovereign and He will accomplish His purposes for His church no matter what.
Thanks.
I think you have it all wrong. This book is showing those who want to be a member of a local church how they can be a better member and in so doing having a deeper relationship with Christ. Here are my chapter titles. 1. I will be an active member in the church. 2. I will encourage other church members. 3. I will put aside my personal preference for the sake of the Gospel. 4. I will pray for those who rule over me. 5. I will disciple my family members and others. 6. Local church membership has many benefits. There is no guilt trip in this book. There is responsibility in being a church member both the local body and the universal body. And to characterize this book the way you have I believe you are sowing discord and you are the one that is in sin and need to repent. I to have been hurt drastically by the local institutional churches more than most and if anyone a reason to throw the concept out it would be me. Just because I was wronged on several occasions in my life does not mean the concept is wrong, it means that there are humans involved. Your free spirited thinking have brought about many of the cults that are in existent today. We need to find a way to unify the passion of those like your self with the benefits of the institutional church.
Jim,
I hear what you are saying, but what about the people who do not want to do the things that Rainer says. In other words, what about the Christians who seek to serve and follow Jesus in ways other than those that Rainer writes about in his book? Most often, they are looked down upon, criticized, and seen as second-class Christians. The true, Godly Christians are those who do the things Rainer recommends.
Look, I am absolutely fine with people who want to do the things Rainer suggests. What I am not fine with is how those people criticize and condemn Christians who seek to follow Jesus is other ways.
I know you cannot speak for Rainer, but what about you? If someone is attending your church and does not wish to become a member or do the things Rainer says, how do you view them? How do you treat them? What do you think about them? What if they decided to stop attending church altogether? Then what?
Thom Rainer doesn’t have a problem but I think you do. You turned a scriptural account for love and unity in the Church (yes the body of Christ) by Thom into a guilt trip/scare tactic. Only in your mind did that happen, Jeremy. I wonder how much prayer and communion in the Holy Spirit occurred in your process because your comments reflect exactly what Thom is addressing. I am sorry to say this but Thom is consistent with the WORD you are not. Please accept my gentle rebuke in love and truth and make a correction.
Scott,
Membership classes and membership commitments are consistent with the Word? I may have missed that part. Can you point it out to me?
Regardless, my main concern is with people who will get criticized and condemned for not wanting to become a “church member.” They almost always get treated as second-class Christians who are not fully devoted followers of Jesus.
Would you mind if someone attended your church but didn’t want to make the commitments that Rainer writes about? What would you think of such a person?
“many people may be leaving the institutional church, not because they have given up on church, are abandoning Jesus, or are bad church members, but because they are good church members and they want to be the church by following Jesus into their neighborhoods and communities.”
If this were true, your article points may be valid. I would love to see the evidence that points to this conclusion. I don’t see people leaving and then being spectacular Jesus followers outside the walls of the church. I wish that were the case. I see people falling away in disillusionment from church people that don’t act like church people, but then they flounder in a world filled with sin, slowly sinking to that level and blending in till there is no light or salt. No church is perfect, but I do believe it is the best method of human support for Christians. Uplifting one another. Sharing pain, sorrow, joy, fellowship. Walking this walk together.
I may or may not be in favor of everything Rainer says in the book, but I do believe the book is not a desperate attempt to save the church, but an attempt to show people how to behave in a way that honors their calling to God as it relates to the church. If God’s people act like God’s people, there wouldn’t be so many people leaving.
JB,
What evidence would be acceptable to you? I personally know dozens of such people. Although, what you mean by “spectacular”? Following Jesus is anything but spectacular. It is humble, hidden, and often done in small “mustard seed” settings.
One reason people flounder (as many do) is that they have been told that the only way to be a Christian is to attend a church, and so when they cannot stomach that any longer, they figure they have to give up on all of it.
“Can’t stomach it” is an interesting choice of words. So, if the very idea of going to church makes me physically feel as if I’m going to vomit, I think I must be who you’re speaking of. Those who don’t feel this way are often the ones evoking this gut response. Lord, forgive me for the times I was the problem.
i have been following your reply and responses to others saying that people arent really leaving “Church Fellowships” to follow Jesus in a better more organic reaching the community way. And your numbers seem to be dwindling you say thousands are, then you say you know hundreds and now you say you know dozens, though I think you have sincere intentions please be careful my brother to stay in line with truth as you defend your point.
AGAPE PMS
I’m a church secretary and a member of the church I work at. People leaving the church every week, down to about 20 families. We left, the Holy Spirit prompted us. Too much religion not enough Jesus. I have served since I was 9 y/o and the true teacher is the Holy Spirit. God is doing something and we should walk in Faith not Fear. This move of the true bride is exciting and actually seems to be making the church a living moving organism in the world!!! Flowing in the Spirit ministering to others, …..they shall know you by your love for one another. If God is breaking down our church building structures(Baptist and other denominations) to have us flow under one Jesus in Love then so be it!
Thanks for sharing what is going on in your church. I do think God is moving in the Body of Christ, and pastors can embrace this work or fight it. I fear that by trying to guilt people into keeping their butts in the pew, pastors will be fighting against what God is doing in the church.
Joan, your comment about the Bride is so apt. The institutional church has found other lovers (usually politics these days.)
A few years ago, a man shared a dream he had in a small, online prophetic group. In the dream, there was a stone church building that started caving in. He saw his wife (bride) run from the church, unharmed, naked & unashamed. She ran into his joyful embrace.
The meaning a clear. The Bride is forsaking the institution. She is no longer clothed in denominational insignia or hidden behind man made walls. She is free to embrace her first love. This IS happening, more& more.
People wring their hands over the various trends they see as destroying the church. These trends are an effect of a crumbling structure, not a causative factor. NOTHING can destroy the church. The gates of hell shall not prevail against her!
I believe the body of believers in Acts devoted themselves to the apostle’s teaching, prayer, fellowship and the breaking of bread together. And apparently there was some organization because there were numbers added to the “church”. Jesus never said there was a problem with temples of worship… just how you use them… sorry I am not among those who will be a part of dissensions of Christ’s bride.
There is an accountability to the calling to follow Jesus…
Thank you for trying to refrain from dissension. So if someone attends your church building and they decided to follow Jesus in a way that causes them to stop attending, would you think less of them or try to keep them attending so that they can truly follow Jesus?
Stop kidding yourself Mr Myers. The so called “new way” of doing church is an institution as well. The relationship with Jesus is a step by step, very organized approach to being a better human being. Stop being so rebellious toward everything the, how did you say it, “organized” church is doing. Not all of these “organized” churches are doing church as you have described. Many are changing. Do you not think that Jesus and the 12 disciples were an organized group?
Your words:
“Naturally, this mass exodus from the church has church leaders scared. They need people to fill their pews. Why? So that they can give their tithes, so the church building can be paid for and the pastoral salaries funded, and so that there is a place and people for all the expensive church programs”.
There are new churches popping up everywhere that are no different. They all are begging for money to pay their salaries, programs and utilities. Despite what you say, money is necessary to do any type of ministry. So whether you do it in a mega church or a ghetto in NYC, you need funds to keep the ministry going.
We should continue with existing facilities and structure, but change from within. That’s our best hope, but do all the things you have said. I agree with you, but I disagree too.
Larry,
You could be right, but I am not aware of any steps that I am following in this “new way” (which isn’t new at all). I don’t collect funds. I don’t have existing facilities or structures. I am not part of a new church building that is popping up somewhere.
So before you criticize what I am doing, you better take a bit of time to actually learn what I am doing.
So, where do you meet?
The better question is “Where do I not meet?” Here are a few places I have met with other believers last month and have been encouraged by them and have (hopefully) been an encouragement.
-work
-my dinner table
-Sheraton Hotel Lobby
-local coffee shop
-neighbor’s horse corral
-in my backyard
-local wine bar
-a friend’s hot tub
JB, you have it right. I am dismayed at the raw cynicism expressed in this chain. As an elder of a non-denominational church, I have real life experience about what happens when people walk away from a local gathering of Christ’s church. Jeremy’s line of reasoning is popular because it aligns with society’s growing cynicism with all things institutional. Unfortunately, Jeremy’s reasoning is often employed as an excuse by those who don’t wan to humble themselves and make a commitment. I am skeptical of how many walk away from “institutional” church to find a closer walk with Jesus or to serve more fully AND ACTUALLY DO SO. I have yet to find even one. Jeremy may know “dozens’, but that is a small number compared to the thousands who are being enriched and rescued by the local church. None of us is strong enough to go it alone– without the support of a family of other believers. Why do you think the NT is peppered with all of the “one another” passages? In my experience, those who left our church family have either found another church body (the best result), dropped out entirely, or church-shopped until they found a church with lower expectations for serving, giving, and personal accountability. Our church is not perfect by a long shot, but we are striving to provide a church home for the hurting and the searching. Without this type of ready-to-help family, many would be lost. I am in full agreement with Rainer’s statement: “It’s a lame and invalid excuse to say you will limit your involvement to the universal church.”
Here’s one and I know many more in the city where I live. We left the institution, not Jesus or the church. We’re much more involved than we ever were in any institutional church. One need not attend an institutional church to have the support of other believers. As a matter of fact, I remember almost no support from the people who attended the churches we attended. That wasn’t their interest. I’m guessing that you know only the institutional church model from personal experience. Hey, if it works for you, great. But don’t assume it works for all of us who follow Jesus.
For all practical purposes, I’ve dropped my church membership. I am editing my resignation letter.
I gave up on the pastor, after giving him a letter outlining what I could do for the church which he has AFAICT, never looked at.
I gave up on the elder assigned to me, when they were given a copy of the same letter, said “That’s interesting”, and promptly forgot all about it.
It is easier to pursue something, when one can physically interact with other individuals pursuing the same thing. When the church congregation, either individually, or as a corporate body, acts more like a FaceBook friend, than a physically present flash and blood person, that dimension is lost. Unfortunately, all to often, the church leadership resembles a cross between a FaceBook Friend, and a Nigerian widow tnat wants to give you some money from her deceased husband’s estate.
Jonathon, as a leader, this touches me directly. I do not know your circumstances, but I know how imperfect leaders and churches are. We mess up. I encourage you to find another church where you have more confidence in the leaders. The church was established by Christ and individual churches were established and nourished by Paul, Timothy, and others. Look at how messed up the church at Corinth was!! Yet, they were encouraged to work things out, not strike out on their own. Churches are the model established for us in scripture. Yes, from time to time there is a need for reform, for new leaders, etc. But trying to go it alone is not a solution. As you correctly point out “it is easier to pursue something when one can physically interact with other individuals pursuing the same thing”. That is part of the wisdom of the church model. I pray you will find a good church community.
Much as I would like to think otherwise, it is as if the Holy Spirit is guiding me to start a home church.
###
What I see in church leaders is a focus on the Christian book of the month, be it _tBad Girls of the Bible_, or _I am a Church Member_, and completing ignoring _The Book of Concord_, _Institutes of Chistian Religion_, _Glossa Ordinaire_, _The Early Church Fathers (32? volumes)_, and similar foundational books in Christian theology.
Furthermore, I see a denial of the existence of material such as _God Hates You, Hate Him Back_, and _Judas of Galillea_, with the consequential inbility to address the issues they raise.
What a comparison there at the end! Wow. So vivid!
PD,
As an elder of your church, if someone came up to you and said that they felt Jesus wanted them to take a break from church attendance for a while, what would you tell them? I am just curious.
As to your points, obviously there are millions of people who have stopped attending church, and I know dozens who are more involved now with loving others like Jesus than they were when they attended church, but you criticize me for saying I only know dozens? Do you seriously think I should know about the lives of all the millions?
Let me admit it: There are also dozens of people I know who have stopped attending church and are not making any effort to follow Jesus. But do you want to know why? Because the church previously attended told them that if they wanted to follow Jesus, they had to do it by attending church. So when they stopped attending, they also figured they had to stop following. Thankfully, Jesus is using people like me (and millions of others in the same boat) to show these people who have stopped attending church that there is wonderful way of following Jesus as part of His Body, the church, which does not involve sitting in a pew on Sunday morning and listening to a sermon.
The primary reason people “fall away” from Jesus when they stop attending church is because most of them have been wrongly taught by church leaders that the two are identical. This book by Rainer is another example of a church leader who seems to be saying something similar.
Jeremy,
I would probably say to take a break if they think they need it. But I would also encourage them not to give up meeting with other Christians who can share life with them, help them grow in the Lord, and prepare them for works of service in His Kingdom. I would tell them to continue in prayer and study and be wary of false teaching. In my mind, that would constitute a “church”. Brick-and-mortar and a denominational name do not make a church. Committed people seeking to do God’s will make a church.
My only point about the dozens vs. millions was your exaggeration. You have anecdotal evidence (dozens) but are making the assertion that the vast majority of the millions leaving are doing so for the reasons you claim. I wont try to put a number on it, but I know your reasons are more often used as an excuse for something deeper.
Jeremy, thank you for being there to help others follow Jesus. That is truly what it is all about. We will have to agree to disagree about the value of church participation. I pray your work in the Kingdom will be blessed.
And thanks for the dialogue, everyone! God bless you all.
Thanks, PD. I think that would be a good thing to tell people.
Just so you know, though, I wasn’t basing my statistic on personal, anecdotal knowledge. I was basing my “millions” statement off a report which I think I read from the Barna group recenlty. Or maybe it was one of those other Christian polling groups. I will try to find it…
Anyway, they ran a survey and found that most of those who stop attending church still view themselves as followers of Jesus. They read their Bibles, pray, give to charitable organizations, and talk with their friends and neighbors about Jesus. Most of them report a closer intimacy with God and liberty in their walk with Jesus than they claim they felt when “attending” church.
So I was referring to that report (though I didn’t mention it because I didn’t have it in front of me). My personal experience of knowing a dozen or so matches what I read about in the study.
Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for your review of “I am a Church Member”. There are church leaders that don’t deserve our support and there are many churches out there that we personally wouldn’t want to attend for good, valid theological reasons; and it would be a real shame if the pastors and Leaders of these churches used Thom Rainer’s book to make the people within these churches feel obliged to continue in them by signing them up as ‘official’ members of these churches.
I read the book and when I read it I though that Thom made it clear that by member he means as in the body metaphor, and when he refers to church he doesn’t mean a commitment primarily to a local church but to the Body of Christ, that is, all genuine Christ-followers.
Unfortunately this book could be misused by self-interested pastors and church leaders to promote greater commitment to ‘their” church and “formal membership” within it. That would be tragic and very sad.
But it could also be used to promote greater commitment towards being a vital and functioning part of the Body of Christ, by joining with others and working together on the task of making disciples.
I would like to see this book being used in a way that let everyone who is already a Christ-follower know they already are a member, even if your name is not on a church’s membership list. This book is about how to be a better and more effective member or part of the whole. That’s how I plan to use this book.
Good points, Steve. I truly do hope that if people use this book, it is used in the way that Thom undoubtedly intended it to be used, rather than to put guilt trips onto people for not being committed enough.
I read this book and what it did for me was make me re-evaluate my commitment to my church and my God. It did this through having me take a tough look at myself and what I think I should be ‘getting out of church’ and what God actually wants for me. If you have made the ‘commitment’ (and no we don’t sign a contract or attendance log or anything crazy like that) to be a church member, certain things SHOULD be expected of you. It’s no different then being a member of any other family. My husband, kids and myself all have roles and responsibilities in our family, it’s no different in being a member of a church family. I didn’t get the guilt trip y’all are talking about, I got a kick in the pants that said ‘Laura, your focus is all wrong, quite being so negative, it’s not about you…’ Do I think that churches are being sidetracked, yes, do I see people leaving because of guilt, yes, but no one ever said believing in God was easy, guilt isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it may just be a way to open our eyes. Did I take everything Mr. Rainer said and the absolute end all? NO, the only book that is that for me is the Bible, but I did take some of the insights to heart and am applying them to my life, my relationship with Christ and my role in my church.
boLaura,
I think my main concern was that Rainer seems to ignore or pass over the importance of being committed to the “Body of Christ” and emphasizes instead the importance of committing to a local “church group.” He seems to imply that if someone is not committed to a local church group, then they are not committed to the universal Body of Christ. This is a false dichotomy, and does not fit with either Scripture or logic.
I am not opposed to people who want to be committed to a local church group, but I hope that they extend grace toward those who commit themselves to the universal Body of Christ in ways that do not involve the things Rainer seems to think are important for church “members.”
I too am a church member, just not in the way Rainer defines it.
Is tithing biblical? Is the “church biblical? Should we forsake the assembling of Gods people? And honestly encouraging people to quietly leave a church period is wrong in itself. Just admit it. Our culture doesn’t want to accept what is biblical, tithing especially, and actually we should be meeting daily as in Acts, not twice a week, but let me tell your living in dream world if you think people in the church are somehow serving away after they leave. Talk about twisting words to fit an agenda. This is terrible. Look do what every you want but remember we answer for how we lead and if it doesn’t scare you that your leading people astray, yikes. All your promoting is more you time so you can sleep in or go to the beach. Sad post.
Joe,
Note that I am not encouraging people to leave the church. Instead, I am encouraging people to be the church (rather than just attend a building on Sunday morning).
Obviously I’m living in a dream world. My wife and I and many others we know follow Jesus and serve the Kingdom outside the walls of he institutional church. This is not twisting words to fit an agenda. It is following Jesus into all the world. Neither we nor Jeremy follow Jesus for more you time so we can sleep or go to the beach. You are throwing around accusations when you do not know us, accusations not based on fact.
Read through Jeremy’s many posts about church, tithing and the other topics you mention, and read his excellent new book “Bodies, Bucks and Bricks” for more information. You may not choose to follow Jesus as we do, but just as we do not condemn you, call you sad and unbiblical, you would do well to treat us with the same love and compassion with which we treat you.
It seems to me that those who express a negative attitude towards attending a “church” base it on emotions and feelings more than scripture. How do you explain the church in Acts? How do you explain Hebrews 10.25 and the exhortation to assemble together? You seem to be critical of “organization” but 1 Corinthians 14.40 admonishes us to do all things “decently and in order”. When you read throughout the Bible, you can’t help but notice that God is a God of order. With all due respect, I don’t see much scriptural basis for your position.
Daniel,
To respond to the questions you have raised, I would need to write a book about these things.
Oh. Hey! I did! Several, to be exact.
Of course, much of that information is found here on my blog, and I have a little “search this blog” area on the top of the sidebar.
While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and while it is true that there are some in leadership positions for self-serving purposes I find the secularization of your article very disheartening as it relates to the body of Christ. Sir, we are in a battle with the forces of darkness. Yes,spiritual warfare on every front of Christendom and when these hit pieces come out against the men of God who lead these churches (institutions as you call them), I believe it aids and abets the enemy. We are strongly encouraged in scripture “not tp forsake the assemblng of ourselves as is the manner of some, but to encourage one another. I found nothing in your article that was encouraging, but certainly you used the opportunity to undermine pastors and leaders who toil tirelessly, contending for the faith in a godless generation even while you are resting comfortably at night. This book, in my opinion, is to actually minimize the great apostasy taking place in our churches; especially among those who were never taught the real meaning of being “last instead of first”, to help those who come into the church who may bring with them societal norms of entitlement and “whats in it for me” attitudes and behaviors. Your article and the attitude of those who go along with it is why the church “limps along” as the enemy gains traction and territory. I say God bless Thom Rainer and the list of Pastors who lead Gods people. I personally have been blessed and benefitted from reading this book. a few questions, you might answer for you and then your blog readers, “Would you rather have a functioning or non-functioning member of your church? Unifying or disruptive? Members who pray or not pray for their leaders who watch for their soul? Members who lead families to be healthy or unhealthy church members? I’m curious after reading your “critique” of a great book. This is what Paul was striving for among the churches he planted, visited and later wrote to…UNITY!
Ira,
Secularization? Because I call on people to recognize that there are other ways of being the church than by sitting in a pew on Sunday morning, you accuse me of secularization?
Ah well, I suppose it might look that way to someone who believe that the way they do “church” on Sunday morning is the way the Bible says it must be done (which it doesn’t). Either way, I am striving toward unity with all my being, and it is books like this one by Thom Rainer which seek to discredit a growing majority of Christians who do not follow Jesus within the four walls of a building.
church isn’t A Sunday Morning activity its a lifestyle of being Christ in the world for you are and I am the Church! But no matter where you stand on the Institutional, organized, house , or Hot tub Gathering you cannot deny that Gods word…(which hasn’t been sited here ) Declares that the Gathering of ourselves shouldn’t be forsaken Heb, 10:25 not a guilt trip, control tactic etc. but instruction and exhortation from The Word of God. How you can do that decently an din order (1Cor. 14:40) without some organization & recognized leadership on a regular basis needs to be considered before condemning organized worship and fellowship gatherings. I experience so called institutionalized gatherings ans well as home or free fellowships and they both have there elements of structure organization accountability ETC… AND THE Lord CAN UTILIZE THEM BOTH. i THINK BETTER TIME AND ENERGY CAN BE USED DISCUSSING HOW TO UNIFY THE BODY OF CHRIST TO REACH THE WORLD THAT DOESN’T KNOW HIM. 1JOHN 1:3 AGAPE PMS
PMS
I work so that I can serve the church. I’ve been bi-vocational pastor of a poor church in a housing community for 14 years. My bible college and seminary education were a luxury for me as I am an engineer by trade – this is my tent-making, I guess. I thought the book was/is a little heavy handed but absolutely on target when addressing the necessity of all members of the local church realizing the importance of their involvement and the investment of their gifts to edify the body. It is not unlike a quote I read in Life Together by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, ” “A community which allows unemployed members to exist within it will perish because of them.”
I don’t agree with anyone all the time, but this little book has it’s merits and it seems to me that you have knocked it down while also advocating the abandon of the very institution through which you and countless others came to saving knowledge of Christ. Perhaps you should read (if you haven’t already) Life Together and then reread Rainer’s book…
Finally, perhaps it’s not you (maybe it some of your subscribers) – you seem a bit hostile toward church leadership of any kind, and I have to tell you as your Christian brother that it is hurtful and discouraging. There are some of us who work hard to take care of our families while also accepting the responsibility of serving God’s people through the ministry of the Word and in the Sacraments – don’t discount the number of faithful men and women who make this sacrifice – willingly and without thanks.
Respect,
just adam
I have read Life Together and Rainer’s book. I understand the perspective that the local institution of the church must be preserved. That worked once upon a time, but is working less and less.
My wife and I were part of the institution for over half a century. We came to understand that the top priority, regardless of what was said and taught, was preserving the institution. When it came down to what churches emphasized and spent their time and money for, it was preserving the institution – the building, the staff and the programs. We have lived in several cities and attended several churches and visited others and never found an exception.
There will continue to be those who want to attend and support the institution, so there will continue to be a need for buildings, staff and programs for those groups. However, more and more people are choosing to follow Jesus into the world. We know many who do. My wife and I have followed Jesus into the neighborhoods, into the streets, and walk with him there among the people.
Rainer’s book strikes some of us as a rather obvious and almost desperate effort to preserve the institution, especially the part about signing pledges that many people will not keep. In my book, that absolutely smacks of desperation.
Adam,
Thanks for the comment. Thanks for workign so hard and doing it bi-vocationally. That is a tough challenge.
I suppose I agree with Rainer that if a person is going to be involved in a local church, they should commit to it, and help out.
My only issue with Rainer was that he seemed to not recognize that there are ways of being members of the church which do not involve attending a brick building on the corner.
I do have “Life Together” and will read it. Thanks!
I respect your experience but it is still anecdotal and limited – it is not definitive hence my suggestion that you paint with a narrower brush lest you do the very thing that you are guarding against… You resist those who criticize ‘other ways of following Jesus’ while doing a bit of the same to those who see value in the institution as a spiritual reality even if not an ideal one…
Churches are made up of people – all of them broken… I imagine that you will encounter the same people in your anti-institution that you would find at church… What’s the point?
The church, as Bonhoeffer would say, is not my “wish dream” but it is true community entered only through the grace of Christ… I don’t think we disagree here. That being said, however, this community provides the very context for discipleship.
What do you say?
Just adam
All of our experiences are anecdotal and limited and in that sense not definitive. Those who find value in the institution obviously have the choice to become part of that expression of the faith. Those who find little or no value in the institution however, rather than abandon the faith and Jesus, may make the choice to choose to follow Jesus outside the institution. Whichever path you have chosen is the path you think best, but that does not necessarily make it so for others.
The church is not limited to those in the institution. If we define the church as those who are part of the body of Christ, obviously there are those both within the institution and outside the institution who are the church, just as there are those both within the institution and outside the institution who are not part of the body of Christ.
My anecdotal experience and that of many I know leads me to believe that Rainer’s solution to the exodus from the institution will not reverse the trend. In my experience, the institution does not really understand why people are leaving and often does not want to genuinely hear or know.
So then what it boils down to is you’re sticking to your assumption… I pray for you as you journey and pray you find the grace to do the same for me…
Read Bonhoeffer again even if only devotionally.
Peace and Blessings.
Jeremy, I just finished reading Ranier’s book last night and found your post online. I wondered if we read the same book. I appreciate your heart for Jesus, but your sarcasm and harsh criticism don’t really build up the body of Christ. That is popular in our culture. I have struggled with that myself often (and still do.) I hope you can write more in the future with grace and truth for all concerned. When you judge people’s motives (you think Ranier was writing this to put people on a guilt trip) I don’t think that is helpful either. I hate it when people judge my motives. I interpret Jesus in Matthew 7 talking about judging as really talking about judging people’s motives (not simply their actions.)
But as I read the replies above, your heart and tone seemed to soften and grow. Thanks so much for displaying such a humble and contrite spirit. That really encouraged me.
I believe relationships (friendships, marriage, family, church and more) are defined by common commitments. Sometimes they are thought out and even written down. Sometimes they are not. To have an uncommitted relationship is an oxymoron.
I am working on what does it mean to be a member (Paul’s word, not mine) in a local body of Christ. I would appreciate your open and honest (but hopefully not brutal) critique:
Here are the commitments we make as Jesus’ church by the power of God working through us:
1. I will actively pursue Jesus as a member of His church through worship, prayer, scripture and service. I will strive to glorify Him in all I do.
2. I will earnestly encourage and love other church members as brothers and sisters in Christ. I will discover and use my gifts to build them up. I will learn to listen to them, walk with them, and care for them by the power of the Holy Spirit.
3. I will put aside my personal preference for the sake of the Gospel. Gathering with the church is not about me. I will battle again Satan, the world and my flesh to lift up the righteousness of Jesus in my life and others.
4. I will pray for leaders who rule over me. I realize their job is challenging and I will find ways to make it a joy. I will protect them with my speech and address gossip when I encounter it.
5. I will disciple my family members and others. I understand that the world is full of broken people who need grace and truth so making disciples of Jesus is my central calling in life.
6. I will share the love of Jesus with those who don’t know Him. As the Holy Spirit gives me compassion and love for those hurting and lost, I will learn to share the gospel more consistently and effectively.
Thanks for your consideration.
May God give you an awesome day!!
Chris,
I do admit my post sounded more sarcastic than I intended it.
All I was trying to say is that Thom Rainer knows better than to limit the definition of “church member” to someone who regularly attends and is involved at a local church building. Yet this basically what he said in his book.
The implication, of course, is that if you do not “attend church” (not a biblical concept) in a local church building (not a biblical concept), then you are not a real “church member” and are therefore, not truly following Jesus. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Absolutely. I agree it is not about a building, but it is about a committed relationship with people (whether temple courts or house to house) where we live in meaningful relationships guided by the Holy Spirit. They aren’t just some people who wander in and out of each other’s lives, they were “family.” Which is a greater commitment than “going to church.”
They did have times they met (otherwise how could you neglect the assemblies) and leadership defined (with particular roles like deacons and elders). When you add that up, it begins to look a little institutional (Webster defines as: “a custom, practice, or law that is accepted and used by many people” So my physical family is an institution and we have customs and practices and traditions over many years. We don’t always meet at our house (especially as the kids have grown) but we meet.
So if we change from “attend church” to “gather as church” would that be more biblically accurate for you?
That depends on what you mean by “gather” I suppose. I have talked about this in my book “Skeleton Church.”
Look, we’re getting off into the weeds here. The only criticism I had of Rainer’s book is that he didn’t recognizes other forms of church than the one that meets in a designated building on Sunday morning with professional clergy up front, etc. He knows other forms exist, but he completely failed to mention them in his book, thereby implying that the form he was describing was the only way to truly be a faithful church member. If he had made some statements in his book such as the one you made in your comment, I would have been fine with the book.
Hi Dr. Anderson. I enjoyed reading your take on Thom Rainer’s book “I Am A Church Member”. While I agree with most of what you’ve said there is one point that he put in his book that I wholeheartedly disagree with. On page 73, he states “they are hypocrites, just as you are.” As a Christian, I don’t profess to be a hypocrite. I try to live the best I can as a Christian and not pass judgment on other Christians who may not be walking in the faith. I was taught that a hypocrite is a person who says one thing and does another, such as “do as I say, not as I do!” Example, I can drink alcoholic beverages but I forbid my teenager to do the same. That’s a hypocrite.
If you are able, please explain what Mr. Rainer meant by that statement that I am a hypocrite(even though I truly believe I am saved by my faith in Christ Jesus, doing His will for my life to the best of my God-given abilities).
Thanks
We were given this book and told that we should join a small group. We read this book and feelings of guilt and fear rose up in us. We went to our new pastor and tried to express our feelings. We were told that the Sunday evening services would be shut down for six weeks, while we met in a small group and studied this series. We and some others who faithfully attend three times on Sunday and wednesday and served other nights of the week. tithe and try to live each day looking for a way to spread the gospel, felt defeated and betrayed. We love the church body. We are not against the institutional church, as you seem to be. We believe that the doors should be open and the building that we and our forefathers sacrificed to build, should be open all week. Our forefathers met in what they called a prayer cottage. Our church body cried on their faces, asking the Lord to bless and help us to build our current building. Our body is about 95 years old. The forefathers sacrificed and even made blocks by hand to build the first building. I believe the example of the first Christians was that they “had” no building to to meet in, so they met in homes…just like our own church body. But the goal was to build a church that would be a beacon for the world, and a holy place where the faithful can go to ease our burdens, get fueled up on God’s word so we can go out into “our mission field.” We are in distress and confused. And we know that this does not come from God. God meets us in this sanctuary. And He goes with us as we live our lives. Just as He gave the Isralites specific instructions about the “tent of meetings, ” and the priests dress…down to the very smallest details, He has given us instructions to not forsake the assembling together in these perilous times.They went to the temple to know the presence of the Glory of God! We have been in every kind of small group you can imagine…and there is nothing like corporate worship. I agree with you that this book is terrible, but it is really distressing to those of us who have remained faithful. Instead of these false man made movements, we would that the church will repent and show the show forth of the ” knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.” When the world sees the glory of God, they will flock to the church again. Perhaps studying the great revivals would help all of those sarcastic hearts to look to the Lord once more. Judgement begins in the gates. Thank you-Marcus & Joyce Horness
This book has been an encouragement and an essential read for my men’s group. Our Church certainly needs this type of reminder and the biblical teaching of body of Christ. It is not meant for Pastors to use it to demand false committment but rather a reminder of what God says about our hearts and our committment to God as we serve as members of Christ. Great book!!!
Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for your review of this book. I am just about to read it. I do both – attend a large church as a member and go out to be Jesus’ love, hands, heart, feet to the world. The two are not mutually exclusive. I have grown in Christ, and continue to grow, from the godly teaching at my church and the fellowship and support of my brothers and sisters in Christ. So have I also grown by sharing the Light of Jesus in my community and around the world. I have seen people leave a church community because the Gospel is not being taught in its fullness and I have also seen people leave because they are rebellious and want things their own way. In the latter case, staying in a church community that challenges our sin natures and strongholds is good for us! I believe your intentions are good and you care about the church but perhaps you would consider the edge in your tone. It sounds angry and bitter, which I think dilutes your message. I will keep your comments in mind when I read this book. In Christ, Judy
I think that you are stereotyping churches. Every church is different. Many people who leave the church don’t always go out into the community to truly grow in their relationship with God. Many spend more time jogging, attending soccer games and traveling. Our church is doing this study because we want our focus to be for the good of all in our community, church, and world. We are not a large church, and our pastor is thoughtful, humble, and kind. Sometimes it is easier to do God’s work in a group so that you can stay focused and are supported. I think their are some excellent churches out there, and people who do not attend also grow in spiritually and do many wonderful things for God’s Kingdom on their own. I think you need to be more accepting of all members both in and outside of the church. Let God be the judge!
You are absolutely right that every church is different.
And while I don’t know the stories of all the millions upon millions of people who no longer attend a Sunday morning gathering, I do know the stories of a couple hundred of them, and by far, most of them have grown closer in their walk with Jesus than they ever had when they were sitting in a pew on Sunday morning. The research supports this also. Look up research on “The Dones” on Google to see what I mean.
Anyway, yes, I am very accepting of all members of God’s church, both those who attend a Sunday morning gathering and those who don’t. But I would invite someone like Thom Rainer to do the same. This sort of book implies that those who do not attend a Sunday morning gathering are not truly committed to Jesus or His church, which is absolutely not true.
After reading I Am A Church member I’ve concluded that Mr. Myers is correct in his assessment of the current state of the institutional church.
It is not growing and that is a source of concern for the leaders of those churches and rightfully so.
God did not design the church to be a gilded temple designed to isolate and separate the body of Christ based on strict denominational interpretation.
Their is nothing in the bible that small groups of Christians free from the burdens/bondage of institutional religion are forbidden from bonding together and going out to minister God’s message to the world.
If you read between the lines in the book you find that the six acts of commitment which is then documented with your signature after the pastor or elder has shared them with you is nothing more than a extreme form of psychological conscription. (Mind control)
I witnessed this very method being used very effectively by another so called great theologian named Jim Jones over 40 years ago.
For those of you who don’t know the history of Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple I encourage you to look it up.
It is a case study of what happens when good Christians surrender their free will to a man who purports to be their spiritual leader or a religious institution that claims their way is best and only way emulate Jesus’ example in the world.
Like todays mega church pastors Jim Jones was a man who claimed to speak directly to God so his interpretation of the gospel was never to be questioned.
Like todays mega church pastors he ran his church like a cult…..where the interior working of the church are kept secret from all but a few parishioners while simultaneously cultivating a false public image of love and openness.
Like todays mega church pastors he was always on a quest to grow his church by any means necessary because doing so further enriched him.
Like todays mega church pastors he kept dossiers on his members.
Like todays mega church pastors he always kept a group of armed men around him at all times.
Like todays mega church pastors he was hell bent on building a cult onto himself and therein lies the danger to the body of Christ.
Beware the man that tells you that all your disposable time, and your assets ,should be sacrificed to advance the mission of the church…………a mission defined not by God but by the man who claims to be his representative……the pastor at your local mega church.
Good job Jeremy Myers
Yes, don’t drink the purple kool-aid. There’s always someone passing it out. It’s not always mega church leaders. Peoples Temples and Jim Joneses in a variety of different disguises seem to be an ever-present phenomena. Beware lest they convince us to drink their kool-aid.
Yes I agree
In addition to my earlier comment I will say that I will be surprised if any of the mega church pastors have any comment on the Jonestown massacre that took place on November 18, 1978.
This November will be the 35th anniversary of that heinous crime perpetrated against 909 of God’s souls (304 of which were children) by a mad man claiming to be God’s apostle……(like many of todays pastors are claiming to be)
Many pastors don’t like talking about this because it casts the church in a bad light.
Three and one half generations have been born since that incident took place and many new church members either were too young to know what happened or uninformed (blissfully ignorant) about it.
I stopped going to church for twenty two years in the aftermath of that incident.
God understood my pain and the reasons for it and guided me back to the fold.
Over the last 30 to 40 years the church has changed and been redefined by a small group of individuals who have turned God’s house into a business enterprise……something it was never meant to be.
Nothing about institutional,campus Christianity is good for the body of Christ.
Small group Christians free yourselves from the burden (and some instances tyranny) of the institutional churches and go forth into the world and do what God always intended for us to do……..Love and care for each other….in Jesus name…..Amen
I choose not to comment on inner motives of those in leadership in the various churches because I do not know them.
As the Apostle Paul did in his letters, I am going to outline my credentials. I am not an angry man throwing rocks. I’ve been doing ministry since 1952. I am 85, a university graduate, hold M.Div. and Ph.D. from a Baptist Seminary. I took post graduate work at two other universities. I was a Baptist Pastor for 22 years. During those years my wife and I both published numerous articles. We were both active in our faith group. We both were and I am a deeply committed conservative Christian who looks at all persons of value and importance to God.
From a pastorate I became director of pastoral care in a major university teaching hospital. I audited some courses in the attached Medical School with medical students. I received a faculty appointment in Psychology of Religion in the medical school to train medical students and MD residents in psychiatry to broaden their understanding of spirituality and religion in their patients. I held membership in three different professional organizations.
After 16 years in the Hospital pastoral care position, I retired and continued with the Medical school for another 20+ years. As well I taught Marriage and Family Therapy to graduate students in a Christian university. I consulted with ministers in numerous faith groups and with numbers of medical professionals.
This isn’t my first rodeo.
Now to my observations. of professional ministers. The mindset of a percentage (how much I do not know) of professional ministers focuses totally on growing and maintaining their congregation. Their institution must be maintained and membership must be kept happy. Views of God become less important than having a congregation that thrives, grows, and meets its budget. If it doesn’t members slip away.
Unknown or ignored is the Private Religion which lives inside the mind and soul others.
It was that inner discontent which stirred Martin Luther to declare his 90+ thesis on the door of the Wittenberg Church in early 1500’s and sparked The Reformation. This is Private Religion.
Institutional Religion leadership apparently by their behavior believes every attender in the congregation is committed to the official teachings. Yet each individual has a religious belief system that a mixture of some of the original faith, the faith of childhood, the faith of experience, and personal choice. Yet within his church he is instructed to sit still and listen.
When ignored long enough, members give up and go elsewhere. Leadership easily blames the ones who leave for not being spiritual enough. Those who leave blame the church or its leadership for a number of reasons. Both suffer from the loss to have genuine dialogue.
What statistical data do you have to support your comments that millions are leaving the church to be the church?
Wow. I read the book and did not come to any of those conclusions. I guess it’s all about perspective.
Jeremy,
What I find interesting is that Scripturally, every incident of leaving the church (fellowship, body) in the New Testament is posited as a negative thing.
The first major exodus of disciples from Jesus happened when he preached something that they were not comfortable with. In Jn 6:66 many of the disciples dropped out. Not a good thing.
Paul mentioned Demas, who at one time was absolutely involved in the life of the church but in 2 Tim 4:10 Paul attributes Demas’ departure (he has forsaken me) to his love of the world. In 2 Tim 1:15 Paul says all Asia turned away from him and names Phygellus and Hermogenes and draws a sharp contrast between them and Onesiphorus who was loyal in the extreme. The context is Paul’s admonition to Timothy to hold fast to Paul’s teaching (as opposed to joining everybody else and leaving). Back to 2 Tim 4 Paul mentions Alexander the Coppersmith and the harm he did to the gospel and how no one stood with Paul but they all deserted him. Not a good thing.
1 John 2:19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” Not a good thing.
2 Thess 2:3 talks about the last days being characterized by a great apostasia (a falling away). Not a good thing, actually tied to a spirit of lawlessness.
None of these scriptures imply that leaving the church was the right thing to do.
There was probably no more screwed up church in history than the Corinthian church and yet I don’t find Paul encouraging anyone to leave it. That is remarkable considering the egregious lack of genuine Christian spirituality in the church. Actually he says just the opposite: 1 Corinthians 6:5-7 “I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers! Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? ” Take one for the gipper, admittedly a hard thing to do. No one said this church thing would be easy.
You make it sound as if leaving a church is a spiritual accomplishment. The Bible doesn’t seem to support your position.
In John’s first epistle he has a great deal to say about love, suggesting that if you don’t have any love for your brethren you don’t know God. Not surprisingly he is the one gospel writer who picked up on Jesus’ epic statement: By this they will know you are my disciples, by your love one for another.
In the church, as in marriage, love compels us to stay together and work through our problems. In this self-serving, self-seeking generation marriage seems to be having the same problem that the church is having. People are leaving in record numbers. Is that love? Is that good? Is that the right thing to do?
Love is never self-serving. Love isn’t leaving and launching out on your personal spiritual journey. Love is staying and making it better. If that is impossible (I say that guardedly, knowing that in some cases it is and in many it is not impossible) then love seeks out a fellowship of like minded believers, a church that is being true to the gospel. Mind you there are no perfect churches. I get that. But the old saying is if you find one don’t join it because you’ll ruin it. Love doesn’t leave because of the imperfections.
I think it is quite disingenuous to talk about the growing number of Christians who don’t do Sunday and don’t do the four walls of the church. Either they find four different walls (a different church or your living room perhaps) or they live a completely disconnected unattached lone ranger spirituality, a floating kidney in the body of Christ. The universal church was never intended to displace the local church. The body is localized and believers are indeed attached to one another. I don’t know what your take on 1 Cor 12 may be but Mr Rainer didn’t really get it all wrong. Peter talks about Living stones built into a temple, bonded and laboring side by side. Your vision is independence and autonomy. Paul’s was unity and commonwealth and mutual accountability, all pretty hard to manage without some kind of localization.
I don’t think Mr. Rainer’s book is any where near as dangerous or as damaging as your legitimizing the abandonment of the local church. I don’t know you or anything about you. All I can go by is what you have written here. If I had to choose, I’d go with Mr Rainer’s efforts to solidify believers in a church rather than your efforts to dissuade them from doing so (notwithstanding your “tolerance” for those who would actually stay in a church, poor benighted souls that they are).
Scott,
I agree with you 100% that leaving the church is considered a bad thing in Scripture. I have never recommended to anyone that they ever leave church. What Thom Rainer doesn’t seem to understand or recognize is that just because someone stops sitting in a pew on Sunday morning and listening to a sermon, this does not mean that they have left church. “Church” is not an activity that takes place in a building from 10-Noon on Sundays.
An no, I am not talking about house church either where someone trades the 4 walls of a brick building for the 4 walls of a house. I am talking about real, vibrant, fellowship as we follow Jesus with one another as members of the family of God. Hundreds of other articles on this blog try to explain this in more detail.
Anyway, thanks for weighing in!
Scott, I doubt the first century “church” looked much like the church of four walls we often find today. There is little to indicate that the verses you quoted and the situations represented in those verses represent situations where people departed from something similar to the institution called “church” that we currently have.
Perhaps you are part of a church where you find love for the brethren, love for neighbor, those who follow Jesus and more, but many have not found such an institution. Not being part of the institution does not mean that all of these things cannot be found elsewhere, and often are. This does not at all mean a “completely disconnected unattached lone ranger spirituality.” Definitely not.
Many of us follow Jesus with and among our neighbors, co-workers and many others we meet and know. It may not look the same as the “church” you know, but it is no less church. For many of us this is where we find real, vibrant Christian fellowship and our best opportunities to share the love of Jesus.
As a Pastor I believe that both sides should be heard. The need to be a fully equipped disciple and a missionary for God. One takes place in the Church gathering as in Hebrews 10: 25. But both take place in the Gospel of Matthew 28: 18 – 20. But i am also reminded that in Mathew 24, Jesus tell us signs of the age. Be careful not to fall into the traps that are stated there. Many leave the church because as Jesus states in Matt 24: 12 but we need to read Matthew 24: 13 as well. If this book is used to remind us of who we are in the body of Christ, then Amen. If it is used to “Lord over members of that body” then shame on the one that does. Each pledge and each signature, should be between the believer and God. I share this with our congregation frequently. We should do as Jesus did when considering any action. Pray, receive answer, and act upon that answer. Prayer tells God, who already knows your heart, that you are wanting his guidance. Receiving an answer, shows patience and acceptance of His wisdom as His will. Action shows your obedience to His will. If you join a church or leave a church without these, then wherever you go and what ever you do, its all about you and not Him. Don’t let your love grow cold. Let your Faith grow stronger. He will guide your paths.
Hebrews 10: 25
James 2:18
I have to say that you are the one who is severely misguided. I decided to read this article as I am going through this book in my own local body (not institution) and was afraid that maybe there was something wrong with the book. You throw around words like institution to cast a grim picture of Followers of Christ who decide to obey God in His command to not forsake the assembling of ourselves.
I think the call of this book is heavy, sure, but so is God’s call to serve.
I am always amazed at how people want to use just one sentence out of a letter to Jewish Christians ( Heb 10.25 ) to make a supposed supreme command for people to conform to a tradition of temple style gatherings.
Perhaps we could reflect on the words of the deacon Stephen ( Acts 7 ) who said to the council ” the Most High does not dwell in temples made by hands” , then a quote from Isaiah 66.
If we look at the buildings, the clergy system with its salaries and titles and the supposed holy offices of hierarchical positions and the power plays of those who claim to own the pulpit, and even the obscene concept of ” laity “it is undeniably obvious that we are looking at an institution , very much like the temple.
Maybe we should pause with some sense of unease when we see that Stephen fumed at the temple authorities and called them ” stiffnecked” and ” always resisting the Holy Spirit “, and how Stephen was murdered for daring to question the ” appointed authorities “.
If many, many people are deserting the institutional church as Jeremy Myers claims, perhaps this is not disobedience to a command but a latter day reformation driven by none other than the Holy Spirit.
Agreed, Neville. Even should we assume that we must assemble, it is a really big stretch to think that there is but one way to do that. Jeremy is not alone in claiming that many people are deserting the institutional church. The news here in the USA daily carries stories on this. A banker I know tells me that not many banks are keen to loan money to churches to build new buildings these days, since bankers seem to know that many churches are struggling to pay their mortgages because they are losing people and income.
Some may see this as a “falling away.” Then again perhaps it is indeed “a latter day reformation driven by none other than the Holy Spirit,” intended to put new life into something that has strayed from its intended purpose.
I think there is more than Hebrews 10:25 to support the importance of believers assembling together. Yes, the true church is the body of Christ made up of all believers world wide, but when you read through Paul’s epistles you can’t help but see the importance of believers meeting in local assemblies. This is another one of those areas where people have to be careful not to go from one extreme to another. People get discouraged and disillusioned with the institutional church so they go drop out altogether meeting in a local assembly trying to making it on their own. There may be a few exceptions, but most believers who avoid meeting with other believers will eventually weaken in their walk of faith and are susceptible to false doctrine. The challenge is to meet regularly with other believers while not being sucked into religion.
Yes I hear what you are saying Craig. I read it that Paul was encouraging mutual edification, building up one another.
In my experience in the institutional church this rarely happens, people are expected to serve the institute not each other. The mutual building up can’t happen on Sundays anyway, because typically in my experience, people are locked into rows of seats facing the front to watch a paid preacher do the ” show”, and then they just leave. Isn’t that the end of the assembly when the preacher says “go”. Go away !!!!
I suggest that it is possible for people to belong to the local assembly and not receive any more spiritual support than if they were just on their own.
You mentioned the issue of the danger of false doctrine for the lone pilgrim. True enough I guess but then false doctrine also lives in gathered assemblies dominated by
the clergy system. I suggest that if you were to examine the history of cults and heresies ( I have ) they mostly have their origins in the influence of institutional preachers.
By the way there are a few influences that are demolishing the institutional church, such as meaningless drab ritual, legal pressure in some countries, China and Russia for example, huge scandals of sexual abuse, spiritual abuse and money grubbing in the institution, perhaps many people are fed up with these. Didn’t Jesus warn his followers that they were the salt of the earth but if they lost their saltiness; their essence, they would be good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled by men. When I look in the daily newspaper I see many examples of the church being thrown out and trampled by men.
I think people like Jeremy Myers are trying to put the case , not to abandon the biblical model, but that the biblical model has been lost or distorted.
You say ” The challenge is to meet regularly with other believers while not being sucked into religion.”
I have no argument with that, Mr Christian is not the Lone Ranger. But I am beginning to think that what you say can only happen if the moribund institution of religion perishes. What is, is not necessarily what ought to be.
Isn’t it a biblical principle that death precedes life. Could it now be that the death of the institution may precede the life of the family of God renewed.
Sam we are in the last days and the bible talks of the love of many will grow cold that is why people are leaving the church.Personally i dont think it is a bad thing as the people that are going to church genuinely want to meet worship and praise and pray to the Lord rather than just going through the motions.Sunday at church was awesome the pastor was away and our worship leader said she was struggling trying to organise the morning so we all worked together and did our part in supporting her through the service and it went so well and we give the praise to the holy spirit who made it happen.That to me is what church is about we are there to serve the Lord and be part of his body its times like that you appreciate being part of a fellowship.brentnz
Of course Brent we always seem to assume that it must be the leavers that are growing cold, maybe not, maybe it is the routine that is growing cold that’s why people are leaving.
Sometimes I sit in the church meeting and I think that to meet Jesus would be the most exciting, enthralling and winsome experience, full of surprises. Then why is the supposed assembly required by scripture the opposite; dull, uninteresting, sometimes downright off putting. Are we missing something.
What did Jesus mean when He said ” The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath “
Neville It think you hit the nail on the head and that is that church has become predicable and it shouldnt be what that is man treating church like a programme.We need the leading of the holy spirit i am involved in different fellowships and in some there is to much liberty and not enough structure in others to much structure and not enough liberty in a structured church one option is to programme some spontoneity like testimonys its just a breath of fresh air and allows the holy spirit just to speak out of anybody that wants to share.regards brentnz
Neville the pharisees had elevated the sabbath as more important than loving God and following him with all our heart..It was no coincidence that Jesus healed on the sabbath days because of the need he had compassion and love for the people.But to the pharisees it was all about obeying the letter of the Law.Jesus was all about grace and setting the people free from sin,sickness or oppression.Thats the difference between legalism and grace i remember listening to Joseph Prince and i liked what he said that when we go under the law we fall from Grace.When we do that we trade in our dependency on the holy spirit for a dependency on what we can do.That is just dead works to truly follow Christ our old nature both the good and the bad must be crucified the bad is sinful and the good is nothing more than self righteousness to make us feel better.Only that which is born of God shall remain our old nature was corrupted to the core there is nothing good in it.That is why we must be born again by the spirit of God.brentnz
Just read the book since our church is using it for weekly study. (Couldn’t put it down.) I’ve been a church member since 19 June 1984 (thanks to Luis Palau) and am now a missionary. I recommend every pastor to get copies into the hands of every congregation member, which is verbatim my words to a pastor, who is a close friend in Christ, only 2 days ago.
I don’t have any real issues about the principles promoted in the book however I believe the goal is developing healthy biblical culture within a church community. With the right culture there would be no need for signed commitment forms.
I do believe the Church are people who are called out to walk together in Christ, and by the power and direction of the Holy Spirit.
The church is not man made but a product of the kingdom. The church has a vision to fulfill God’s intention on earth through Him and for Him. The church is a community, a common-unity in Christ, called together in relationship. Committed to Jesus, committed to one another, and committed to move together in a journey of spiritual formation.
The church understands their true identity can only emerge through community. It cannot be discovered as a self-determining autonomous soul but one that is submitted and committed to Christ within the context of a community of believers in communion with the triune God.
The church has a mandate to bring glory to God through worship, word, and works. Letting their light shine in such a way that others may see their good works and glorify God.
The idea’s presented in this article does not embody the biblical ideal of the church as a community. The spirit of independence and the entrepreneurial spirit of individual initiative cannot fulfil God’s mandate as His mandate in essence is about building “community”. God Himself is community and we are made in His image to reflect a Christ community on earth. This requires interdependence. It requires unselfish organisation and it just doesn’t work in isolation. “You don’t have to be in church to be a christian” well you don’t have to be in water to be a fish!
And whilst I understand concerns surrounding institutionalisation of the church we can’t get away from the fact for a community to function effectively requires structure, strategy and systems as well as values and vision to carry out its purpose’s.
Whether Thom is right or wrong about his specifics on the matter, I don’t see how ANYONE can say that it is totally fine to not go to church regularly, worship God in unity, study His Word together, PRAY together, and fellowship in love and unity. Imagine this: you’re witnessing to someone in the community who is on the verge of accepting and professing faith in Christ. They ask you where you go to church and and your response is that you don’t go. Whether you think it’s ok or not, the worlds expectation for christians is to attend church (and sadly most non believers think that’s all there is to it). So this on the verge fellow decided you’re not a real Christian and that being a Christian isn’t worth his time. Congratulations. By ignoring the command to gather with other believers, you just led someone to hell, not Christ. People, quit trying to change the way Christianity and the Church has been done for centuries. It works fine the way God has blessed it. You’re only going to mess it up for so many that are on the right track (following Jesus).
Where does the Bible say “You must go to church where you listen to a sermon and sing songs”? Fellowship among believers is important, but there is no place in the Bible that teaches or defends the modern practice of “church.”
Actually, we are told to continue assembling together. We know, from Acts, the the early church gathered together regularly to eat (the love feast which included what we call communion), to pray, and to listen to the teaching of the Word.
Hebrews 10:23–27 (NASB95)
23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;
24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
When the writer says not to forsake the assembling together, what is he referring to? Was it not a local body of Christians gathering together? And what did they do in these gatherings? Was it not what we saw the early church doing in Acts 2?
Acts 2:42 (NASB95)
42They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
In this review you seem to glorify a “lone-ranger” Christianity that is foreign to the New Testament. Your view of Christianity seems to ignore all the New Testament pattern and teaching regarding eldership in the local church and their responsibility, and the responsibility of Christians in the local church.
I briefly address Hebrews 10:25 here: https://redeeminggod.com/cancel-your-church-service/
Regardless, note that none of the verses you quote say anything about meeting in a building on Sunday mornings to sing songs and listen to a sermon. And none of them talk about taking membership classes and signing on dotted lines to membership covenants (as many churches expect of members). It is entirely possible to be a member of the church without ever setting foot in a “church building.”
You and I obviously live in different places and know different people. Where I live it is not “the worlds expectation for christians is to attend church.” Most people I know do not equate attending church and being Christian. Actually, many people seem to think that a lot of people who attend church do not follow Jesus, but merely attend church for their own reasons, such as needing some sort of religious system to identify with. Just yesterday I heard one fellow ask another if he was part of (another religion), to which the fellow replied “I guess not. If I had to identify with some religion I suppose it would be Christian. Maybe Presbyterian. I’ve been to a Presbyterian church.” I know many, many people who say that people who attend church do not live or act anything like Jesus. They see nothing of Jesus in those people. So, whether or not you attend church, do people see Jesus in you?
Thinking that God is not involved in the local assembly of churches that gather in an organized way is certainly short sited on your part. You may not think you are saying this but by the way you come off you act like you are better than those who are a part of the church. You also neglect that the worker is worth his wage and make all pastors in an organized church out to be charlatans. You should check your heart for arrogance and pride. You judge your brothers in Christ who serve faithfully and love the local assembly with great joy and patience.
Maybe it is our current culture that is hell bent, unyielding, unholy and un-thankful that has crept into the church and caused people who really don’t want to submit to Jesus to leave the church. I work in a church, I understand their are difficulties that arise in a church. After all my years in a church I can tell you people usually leave because they don’t want to reconcile. People also don’t want to obey God’s leading in their life, and get offended when their pastor calls on them to do what they agreed to as part of the covenant of God and surrender their life.
Jeremy
Well said. There is something wrong and deceptive about the messages I see coming from Rainer and my pastor likes him. The latest thing is we can’t improve our church because that’s a sign of self idolatry. Our pastor likes to quote Rainer, “When preferences of the church members are greater than their passion for the gospel, the church is dying.” He uses this to ignore ideas and suggestions from anyone. I see it as just an excuse coming from insecurity. An excuse to cover up his short comings. He doesn’t want anything accountable in the church. I was in a destructive Christianson cult in the 1970s and this sounds similar. This is splitting up the church, not because people don’t get their way but because the pastor doesn’t appear to care about his flock. When the pastor doesn’t listen and considers members ideas it sends the message he doesn’t care about you. If he doesn’t care he can’t be the pastor. I think Rainer even said something about people leaving because they don’t get their way. Not true. They leave because the pastor doesn’t care. A pastor that doesn’t listen to feedback or a work performance review is doing themselves a dis service because you’ll never improve personally and your church will be limited to only what you can do. Better to unleash the ideas of members that may be way smarter and creative and far better leaders. Being a pastor is not about controlling the church. It is about creating an environment where members can excel at making followers of Jesus.
Jeremy: It appears to me that you fall short with your criticism of the book. You expect people to fully understand your entire writing history, but you don’t mind oversimplifying and overgeneralizing about the thoughts in the book. Believe me, after more than 50 years as a pastor, I can clearly see its history and current condition. What I often find humorous is the assumption that those outside the church are more spiritual than those inside. Surely you jest! This is the same position as the one held by most of the contemporary groups in and out of the church. Knowing a bunch of them personally, any suggestion that they are any more spiritual than those “bound” by their tradition is a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. I’ve never seen as much pride, arrogance and self-promotions as I have in those railing against the traditional model of church. They think they have arrived, contrary to what any clear thinking person would know is not so. Sadly, those groups outside the church are quick to fall into the same pattern of developing a rigid understanding of what serving Jesus is all about, and anyone disagreeing with such is painted in less than noble terms. My attitude to all those with all views of the church is this: Go, do what you believe God is calling you to do, but at least have the honesty to tone down your self-righteous and self-service that leads you to strutting. Such is unbecoming and no cup for measuring one’s service to Jesus. Heaven will reveal the real truth to all of us, and I don’t doubt we will all be humbled by how far we fell short of who we thought we were.
Actually, I just wanted the people who criticized me to show similar concern for my views as I attempted to show in my criticism of Thom. It is 100% fine if people want to disagree with me or criticize my views. But before they do so, they should at least spend a few minutes trying to understand my views. I have read nearly all of Rainer’s books, and this one was the worst of them all. I endorse and appreciate most of his others.
This article sounds like someone’s excuse for poor behavior.
1st Never forsake the assembling of yourselves. (Hebrews 10:25-31)
2nd Read 1st and 2nd Corinthians.
-It was to a body of believers that gathered together and were doing things wrong, but Paul never condemned them for gathering together regularly and orderly.
-He tells them how to give, even to the point of saying save in order to give.
3rd What is the need for a pastor or the pastoral epistles?
4th There would be no need for a pastor/teacher.
How do we edify each other if we never gather to know each other? If you would say we should meet sometimes, then how often and are we required to do it or is it optional?
What scripture supports your instruction?
Who should take care of the pastor?
What research have you done? How many churches have you interviewed etc?
You only say these things because you don’t know me and because you don’t know what the church is.
I have attended hundreds of churches and interviewed dozens of pastors. I was a pastor. I have seminary and Bible college degrees. I have been reading, studying, and teaching scripture for decades. I have written multiple books on the topic (which answer all your questions). So there is no excuse here for poor behavior. Just a different way of viewing church that you are not yet familiar with….
Your comment is right on… “snarky” is how you put it. There is much grace infused thought infused in the chapters because salvation, as Thom says, is a gift, right along with church ‘membership.’ It is not intended for non-believers (but may serve as instructing membership =serving) and is designed to help believers the awesome gift of being a part of the “body of Christ.” The is a clear, non-complaining way to explain what belonging to the Christian community looks like as a ‘healthy’ member. And it is done out gratitude for what Christ has done for us and moves people out of their church background comfort zone of narcissism and apathy!
I received and read the book as part of a new members class three years ago. I was not asked to sign the pledge sheets, and no one has confronted me to coerce me into doing anything I didn’t want to do. The only guilt I felt was the guilt I feel when I fail to do what is expected of me whether as a church member, a husband, or a father. If reading the book made you feel guilty about your work for Christ and for the Church you should resort to improving yourself, not acting like Jehoiakim when Jehudi read him the scroll.
Hi,
Thanks for writing the counterpoint regarding the book “I am a Church Member”. Like you, I am not fond of the legalistic/dead organization. Like you, I “that many people may be leaving the institutional church, not because they have given up on church, are abandoning Jesus, or are bad church members, but because they are good church members and they want to be the church by following Jesus into their neighborhoods and communities.”
But a child of God can’t really exist without the family of God. Therefore as long as a Christian can ground themselves in a community of “two or three gathers in Jesus name” and “not forsaking the assembling of themselves together to exhorting one another” in the context of the Last Day, then all is good.
What I am afraid of is the other end of extremism, where we think being a Christian is just “between me and God”, and neglect the crucial community aspect of the faith.
Once again, thanks for the much-needed counterpoints to balance things out.
The Church is the ONLY God ordained and inhabited system of salvation and restoration on the planet! Like it or NOT! I have no idea how YOU recommend doing it… but LEAVING is not an option. You are either part of His Church or not. Ranting against someone who writes a book on how to help it grow, without other recommendations is simply a critic.
Jeremy, I have always found that its easier for people to be critical of others rather than hold up a true vision of what is a more faithful expression. The problem with the church, any church, is that it is full of imperfect people which you and I fully are. Jeremy, as a Christ-follower, what is the body of Christ to you. We all need each other in the body and need desperately to be connected to Christ and His members. What is your vision of the church? What is God’s vision of His church? Are you intimately connected to his body? How do we faithfully fulfill the great commandment together?
Thank you so much for posting this! 🙂 I found your article, thankfully, after reading one by Thom Rainer that blamed believers in Christ who leave organizations that basically pose as New Testament churches. He intones that many of us leave because we are shallow and self-absorbed. I posted a comment to his article that asked him not to further wound those who have already been hurt by professional religion. Hopefully the million dollar pay-out man can step outside of himself and his presumptions and see many thoughtful, intelligent, committed brothers and sisters in Christ among those who he lumps together as frivolous people who bless his religous system by leaving it. Thank you, Jeremy, for encouraging me with your article here.
The church used to be decentralized, but the Roman emperors introduced the needless bureaucracy into the church that has stayed with us to this day. Bureaucracy disconnects us. Rainer also comes from a business background. Business is very impersonal. His book comes off as cold and formulaic. It’s a book about coming together but shows no understanding of the complicated dynamics of relationships among church members. The book won’t stop the decline of the bureaucratic church.
Hey Jeremy, a helpful question thats been posed to me previously is how does any of the NT apply to me as an individual if I am not an active part of my local church. How can I be lovingly held to account over my walk (or lack thereof) with Jesus? How can I encourage my Brothers and Sisters if I’m not connected with them? How can we love each as as Christ has loved us if there is no ‘we’ and ‘us’? I think the lockdown project convinced me at least that I cannot thrive in my faith without my church family. On my own I’m far more susceptible to sin and discouragement and ineffectiveness in my witness for Jesus. God bless
Thank you so much I appreciate you.s
I aggree with the gist of your article. But could you illustrate for me how those who are leaving the institutional church are “good church members and they want to be the church by following Jesus into their neighborhoods and communities.” I am asking just asking how this looks like so I can be an advocate for blessing them. Thanks for your time.
You are right about several statements. Your view is “over the top”, every member does need each other and yes your comment at are snarky. The problem with the church if the world as you describes it is accountability. They do not attend a Bible study, don’t support ministry financially and do not experience worship with the rest of the people. They are basically lone rangers and it really shows in their lack of growth.
This is such an odd article…
First, if you’re a Christian, I don’t know why you would write an article to encourage others Christians, not to attend church. The Bible Cleary teaches us come together in untiy of worship, community, and service.
Second, studies have shown that people who are actively engaged in places of worship, fair better in social, emotional, physical, and spiritual matters of life.
Third, we are not saved by works and acts of service. We are saved by grace. Our goal is to become life giving disciples of the Savior.
Lastly, you implore Thom Rainer to engage in a debate over your article. How would that benefit until in the Kingdom of God to reach the lost? instead, I implore you to remove this article and write another one on the importance of reaching the lost at all cost. I would hate to think I did anything to cause division in God’s Kingdom.
The Real Person!
The Real Person!
Amen!! I felt the same way about the “review”.
Thank you for your perspective. Can you go into greater detail about how you see this in action: “but because they are good church members and they want to be the church by following Jesus into their neighborhoods and communities.” I’m curious how you see Christians being the church. Can you give examples? Thank you so much. 😊
The Real Person!
The Real Person!
After reading your “review” of the Thom Rainer book, I Am A Church Member, I am feeling, as they say in the Inner City, “some kinda way”. Just because some institutional leaders and large church pastors endorsed Thom’s analysis of the state of the church, at that time, does not mean they are in cahoots to bring more people back to the building to fund the large church lifestyle. Quite frankly, the sections in the book, in my opinion, point out areas where members of the Body of Christ can be blessed by committing to a local Holy community. The key is this, if a person reads this book and feels as if they cannot commit to these suggestions at their current assembly, maybe this is a key to look elsewhere. Your view makes it appear as if church “members” are misguided robots that need to commit blindly to any person calling themselves Pastor..or church leader. Not the case. Again, just my opinion…just like yours is yours.