When I was a pastor, there was nothing I enjoyed more than studying Scripture for the three sermons I taught weekly. The second thing I enjoyed most was actually teaching what I had learned.
Eric Liddell once said this:
I believe that God made me for a purpose, but He also made me fast. When I run, I feel His pleasure.
When I was a pastor, I often felt God’s pleasure when I studied Scripture and when I taught it to others.
Today, as I am no longer a pastor, I rarely get to do either.
Why am I no longer a pastor?
Well, some of the answer to that question is written in various posts on this blog, and the rest of the answer will probably never get written anywhere. At the core, however, was a conviction that I could not go back into the pastorate, at least, not as it has traditionally functioned.
But I wasn’t sure exactly how it should function, or for that matter, how the church itself should function.
So about eighteen months ago I began to write a book called Close Your Church for Good. Writing the book was how I was going to work through some of the questions I had about church. I was making good progress, but then, exactly three months ago, I stopped publishing posts about it.
What happened to Close Your Church for Good?
I ran into a roadblock: I tackled the question of preaching.
As preaching had been one of my favorite parts of pastoral ministry, and even today seems to be a hallmark of a healthy church, I had great trouble dealing with what the teaching and preaching activity of a church should look like.
I think I may have a handle on it now. Maybe. I may, at least, be headed in the right direction. The chapter will be called “Down with Preaching” and I will begin making posts on it tomorrow. If you love preaching (either preaching to others, or listening to good preaching), I would really appreciate your input on these posts. And if you know others who also enjoy preaching, invite them to join in also.
I am basically going to tell pastors (myself included) to sit down and shut up.
Of course, I hope I’ll be a bit more gracious than that.
However, the thought recently occurred to me as I was working on this chapter that maybe I am just trying to comfort (or maybe cauterize) myself over my sense of loss about no longer being able to preach. If so, I hope you’ll tell me to sit down and shut up. Except I hope you’ll be a bit more gracious than that.
No matter what, it’s going to be fun. Whatever you think about preaching, you won’t want to miss it.
This should be interesting. Thinking about it now, I find it difficult to see how you can justify stopping preaching in its entirely given the many recorded sermons of the Bible, so I am curious to see where you are going with this. Is your problem with preaching itself or merely the format of modern preaching? Then there is the consideration that there is a difference between pastoring and preaching which is lost in modern America, and one who is gifted in one may not be gifted in the other.
Anyway, I’ll get the popcorn.
Matt,
I’m still struggling with it myself, so you will have to give some feedback. Maybe I am stretching the limits of the text too much.
I definitely have a problem with modern preaching. Too much of it is pure entertainment. Many modern preachers would be better off as stand-up comedians, psychologists, or fiction writers.
However, I even have a problem with the strong Biblical sermon. But you’ll see what I mean…
Jeremy,
I love you man. I know this has been a struggle for you for a while, and I wish I had answers, but I do not. What I do know is that you are gifted to be a postor, and you ARE a pastor whether you have a church or not. You have been given a gift of understanding the Word, and being able to share that understanding in a way that makes sense to a lot of people. You also have the heart of a shepherd and love to minister to people who have been wounded by life, circumstances, or other “Christians”.
I do agree with you that the way preaching is done in most churches is not necessarily the best way. I am also continually seeking better, more biblical ways to be Church. Can’t wait to see where you go with this, and I do not worry (too much) about having to tell you to sit down and shut up.
Your Brother In Christ,
FedEx
FedEx,
Nah, you don’t have to worry too much. I don’t want to spoil it, but I still place a heavy emphasis on understanding Scripture and living it.
This is an issue for me as well. Personally, I see Pastors and Preachers as somewhat different roles. I’m not religiously educated, but a Preacher seems like a teacher and expounder, but a Pastor is more of the group spiritual leader and direction.
It seems to me that very often, our church heads are called upon to do far too many things, and act more like a CEO than a Man of God. This sort of all in one approach, combined with the whole institutional feel of congregations I’ve attended has mostly soured me on church altogether and sent me in search of more meaningful interaction with the Christ’s people and a more effective means of servitude.
It’s a tough road, but maybe your upcoming posts may help.
Steve,
You and I are thinking along the same lines. There is so much that needs to be said about the role of Pastor today, I doubt my posts will even scratch the surface. I will only be dealing with the topic of preaching, but leadership and character are also issues that could (and should) be addressed.
Occasionally I like to hear a sermon. At this point in our lives, that means online.
However, I like the back and forth of dialogue and conversation. I’ve heard the craziest, wackiest things said in sermons that went way beyond even far out “interpretation” of Scripture. They were really just the opinions of the speaker, but were presented as “the word from the Lord”.
The sermons I like best are those that are lived out. Then I know the “preacher” really believes it, that (s)he really takes Jesus seriously and perhaps that (s)he really cares about people.
Sam,
I think you could have written the posts that are coming….. As usual, you and I are thinking along similar lines.
Jeremy,
Since I left the traditional church to explore more organic forms of church, preaching has been something I’ve tried to figure out as well. I love good preaching. In fact, I regularly listen to several preachers via iTunes. But at the same time, one of the things that bothered me about the traditional church was the limited scope preaching often took. Only a select few were ever allowed to preach, there was never interaction with the preacher allowed, and congregation input to the topics covered was never solicited. Finally, and most important, much of the preaching was about hot topics, and very little about Jesus, except His role as savior and helper of my personal needs.
Anyways, I look forward to reading (and hopefully commenting) on your posts.
Bob
Bob,
Yes, you are absolutely right. From many of the comments here, it looks like what I am going to say will not be that radical after all. Many people seem to be thinking the same thing. I look forward to your feedback though!
I’ve met people with the gift of pastor, which is the gift of shepherding. When I was in Germany, I attended the organic church there for a week straight, and the fellow who had the heart and gift of a pastor would hug you and tell you he loved you. For a German, that’s a shock! (Ever hear of the expression “I’d love Germany if it wasn’t for the Germans”? That’s a truism. But there isn’t a spiritual gift of preaching. It may be a gift and a joy, but it’s not a spiritual gift. My passion is to study the word more and more, and be challenged by other views.I think it’s my analytical mind that gives mew that. Did you ever think Jeremy, that this blog is your way of doing what you did at the church? At the Organic fellowship, obviously there were those who taught, but that wasn’t the focus. Do you have “Reimagining Church” by Viola?
Anthony,
Yes. I think one of the reasons I blog and write is because of my spiritual giftedness and my need to disciple others and learn Scripture along with others.
I do have Reimagining Church, and have read it. It is a great book, and Viola’s books have helped me in my thinking in these areas of preaching and pastoral ministry.
I tend to agree with you, Anthony. This blog is a great way for Jeremy to continue teaching, and also offers the opportunity for dialogue.
I don’t follow a religion, but I respect all religions. However I love reading the scriptures.
Rochelle,
I am with you. I love reading the Scriptures also. Are there certain portions you enjoy the most?
Jeremy, what do you think of the english word “prophet” used throughout 1 Cor. 12-14…?
I lean towards something like: “those who are speaking the words of God”. (cf. Chapter 12 “as the oracle of God”… I think! Just on lunch break and don’t have the scripture handy.)
I’d love to read some of your thoughts (and anyone elses) on Ch.14 especially! The main subject most focus on is tongues and edification, etc. There’s a little verse that includes (from my paraphrasing memory): “Let two or three prophets speak, and if something is revealed to another, let the first keep silent… so that all may be edified,” etc.
Doesn’t this sound like it would have to be a really Spirit led “order” of service? Most church administrations would be mortified at even considering such freedom, I think. It would take much relationship and trust for all involved to allow the Lord to teach/preach/prophesy through His under-shepherds.
Resting in Him, M.
Mark,
Great question. I’m not sure I have an answer.
I am still trying to sort out what I think about the role of a “prophet.” I used to be a cessationist regarding the “sign gifts” and now I’m not so sure. I do think that whatever the role of the prophet was in the days of the early church, it did involve speaking the Word of God.
I am not sure, however, that 1 Cor 12-14 provides a Spirit-led order of service. I think Corinth had many problems, and Paul was not so much trying to provide an order of service for all church meetings everywhere to follow, but was trying to bring some order to a chaotic mess in Corinth. Also, I am not sure if there were any elders in Corinth, which makes a the situation even more different.
@Mark, I may be qualified to answer this one, since I was a Pentecostal pastor. In the Assemblies of God, where I was ordained, tongues was not the focus. In most AG churches I either preached at or attended, only 1 or 2 even HAD the “gift” of tongues. In my church, it was always an old lady who sat right in the front. Then we had a man in the back of the church who would interpret, and then everyone would right down what was said and check the scriptures to verify it. In the organic fellowship, 2 ladies both spoke and interpreted at the same time. But only one time. There was also a girl from Switzerland who would start singing Psalms of praise. Then some would join in. First time I’ve ever heard Psalm 94 sung in German, or ANY language for that matter.
Anthony,
You are more than qualified to answer! Thanks for weighing in.
But I’ve started to change my view of the gifts. Not as many people have tongues as they claim. I see prophecy as “speaking the truth in love”. Not necessarily predicting the future, but I’ve seen people “call out” someone who was sinning (not in public though), and then correct them with the word of God. My good friend/mentor Eugene in South Carolina gets those a lot. The Lord actually told him to go to the house of the worship pastor of a church 15 miles from him. He begged the lord not to make him do it. But he went, and he told him to end the affair he was having, or he’s be judged. Then he went to the woman’s house and said the same thing! e never met them before.
Last he heard, the pastor fond out abut his “trist” ans fired them both. She was a Sunday School teacher.
I think THAT is prophecy. He’s only had it 2 other times.
Thanks Jer. and Anthony for your responses (re:the Corinthian church), they both have much value and food for meditation.
Re: the choatic mess Paul was addressing, and what he (or the Lord?) “was trying to” do… Again, it seems the main desire of the Lord (when His followers gather) is their mutual edification (and conviction, and resulting humbled praise/thanks to Him).
Anthony, I’ve heard many similar stories as our brother Eugene’s, and powerful as they are, I see them as hearing the Lord’s voice and obeying it (His leading/prompting to action). We all need to tune our spiritual ears to do the same; although we are all diff. and seem to “hear” (or “know” – John 10) His voice with varying clarity and re: diff. matters.
The “prophesy” alluded to in Corinthians though, is clearly quite specifically for the whole gathering of believers present. It is for immediate and mutual edification. It is how most of “us” in our recent generations expect to “be fed” (via spoon?) by the prepared sermon.
Side note: I can’t think of ANY prepared sermons in the scriptures… whether it be the Lord’s, Peter’s, Stephen’s, or even Paul’s! They all seem to be led (moved) by the Spirit to speak… and they spoke.
Interesting that none of them would actually take more than 15 min. (max.) to actually speak… perhaps only the “sermon on the mount”. I know, many monologuers love to point out Paul teaching so long into the night that the youth fell (both asleep and out the window).
My point isn’t really length of a soliloquey (if the Lord is indeed leading). Nor do I protest the study and medidation of scripture. On the contrary, the more we all do so (be a diligent student of the Lord), the more each of us will be able to speak His words (via His Spirit)… AS HE LEADS! Wow, eh?
What I do object to is the idea that the whole gathering should reverently keep silent (even if the Lord is leading otherwise) while the Right Reverend plows through his material (the fruit of 40 hours of academic and professional study). Sit, soak and often sour.
A few gatherings I’ve visited have been on the chaotic side. However, the majority of congregations “attended” are definitely on the safe and controlled pendulam swing [using the tradition of pews, pulpit, monologue prepared sermon, “worship package”, announcements, prayer (maybe), scripture reading (almost phased out), etc.].
I love you guys, and appreciate your willingness to dialogue and seek. Thank you for your patience with me in my wordy-ness (yikes).
I enjoy your wordiness (I can’t spell it right ‘cuz it’s not a word) though!
In Christ alone, M.
Mark,
In future posts, I will be dealing with some of the passages you bring up here, and will generally be going in the same direction you mention in your comment. Stay tuned!
Yes, I have heard of this happening, and think that this may be one use for such spiritual gifts.
I am a person who loves to preach. I work in college ministry and occasionally get to preach at my church.
I feel an inner tension with preaching. On one hand, it communicates great things (when done well) to a large or small group of people. On the other hand, I can’t imagine that Jesus’ vision for his church is to have the primary focus on one person talking at them once a week.
Maybe we all need to take a step back and figure out what the proper place of preaching, along with all the other awesome things the people of God can do, is.
I did just get back from a few days of training with people who will lead inductive Bible studies at a conference and I couldn’t be more excited about it.
We don’t have to preach. We get to help people encounter and be transformed by Jesus as the study Scripture.
At one time I truly loved Christian ministry. I couldn’t think of any more fulfilling work to do. It was in this setting that I learned enough truth to be delivered from the type of demons that drive one to commit suicide. These demons, which seem to have a fondness for entering the human body through domestic abuse during childhood, inflict the type of pain in the head that drives people to cut themselves with stones or razor blades in order to bring some temporary relief. In my case, it was when I accidentally burned my arm on the 550 degree baked potato oven at work that drove that pain right out of me. I’m telling you, that oven immediately became my best friend. And we never missed our weekly rendezvous. But the enemies within would not settle for any type of truce. The pain they would inflict felt like rats gnawing on on my brain and a great big nut cracker squeezing it into. Excruciating! And the medicine I would take left me feeling like a zombie.
But then I was witnessed to and heard a teaching about the power of God being just as available today as it was 2000 years ago. So I stopped taking my meds. Then the pain returned with a vengeance.That’s when I went suicidal. I tried different poisons but kept living through it. But on my 3rd attempt, as I was happily contemplating my next conscious moment seeing Christ face to face and being completely pain free, a teaching came to mind about God rewarding us for the good we do after we get saved. And after pondering that point for about a minute. I silently said to the lord, “Well I might as well get a few rewards before I see you.” And then I spit out what I had intended to swallow. And immediately the Lord drove those gnawing rats and squeezing nut cracker right out of my head, never to return!
Then I switched best friends and quickly devoured the Bible from cover to cover. And then I did it all over again. Over and over. Couldn’t get enough of it. And my heart began to feel like it would explode if I didn’t tell people what I was learning. But that didn’t set so well with ministry leaders.
“Did Dr. So and so teach you that?”
“Uh, no.”
“Did Reverend So and So teach you that?”
“No.”
“Then where did you get it.”
‘I just happened to be reading the Bible last week when …”
“Then don’t you ever teach that again! Do you hear me?”
‘Yeah…. I hear you.”
That’s when ministry life started to lose its savor. I realized that what was good about the ministry was usually very good. But what was bad was also usually very bad. We were taught to love God and his Word like I had never been taught to do so before. But also, from the first day we entered “the household,” if you will, we were taught not to trust our own perceptions by privately interpret the scriptures. And that revelation from the Lord went to ministry headquarters first. It could never originate from, say, an Ananias being told to go heal Saul.
And doctrine was worshiped more than God. I know that having correct doctrine is very important. But I also know that none of us knows it all. And that as the church, we are moving from the Dark Ages of spiritual understanding to that of the noon day. And that we’ve still got a ways to go. And this inflexibility when it came to Church doctrine caused church split after church split. Ministry leaders who used to be best friends could no longer talk to each other. So, after many years of this, I just had to let go. Now I prefer the settings “where two or three are gathered in my name.”
But I don’t think it’s over. And I like seeing that you don’t think so either. Just saw your blog today and saw your book on the need of a church death. Glad we are both seeing that the church must go through a major crucifixion of our fleshly ways of coping before experiencing that much needed resurrection of the fruit of the Spirit. As a matter of fact — and I know that no one knows exactly when Christ will return–I don’t think he will even think about bringing about that corporate ascension of his spiritual body, otherwise know as the Rapture, until we do go through this much needed death, burial and great awakening. So it might was well start with us, right?
Wow, amazing story. This sort of account is becoming more and more common these days. People worship so many things other than God Himself. Like you say, many worship doctrine, and if you stray one bit from what they have determined to be true, they will shun you and condemn you.
I do, of course, think that community and fellowship with other believers is important, but there are so many ways of doing this other than by sitting in a pew on Sunday morning from 10:30-12:00. It sounds like you are finding some of these ways.
Yes, I believe “church” is dying so that a new way of following Jesus can rise from the ashes. But as long as we put the church on life-support, that resurrection will not come. So the sooner we let the “church” die (that is, the way church has “always been done”), the sooner we can discover new life within the Body of Christ.
Thanks for your words of wisdom, Jeremy. Like you, I think there are things about “church” we must “let die.” For instance, we must let die any expectation that we will ever be accepted by former close friends who have newly discovered “doctrinal differences” that have risen to the surface. You may be free to pick up the phone and call Pastor So and So have a nice 20 minute chat and the next do the same thing with Evangelist So and So, but must lay to rest the hope that they will ever call each other, or you, for that matter. Their doctrinal walls of hostility just won’t permit it. I just found out that a dear pastor friend of mine died in December without ever succeeding in scaling that wall, much less, tearing it down.
But it appears to me that in other areas pertaining to church life, the good Lord actually wants us to participate more aggressively in bringing about this death that ushers in this eagerly anticipated “new life within the Body of Christ.” To be frank, he says that “if by the Spirit you PUT TO DEATH the deeds of the body, YOU WILL LIVE.” (Romans 8:13).
So what on earth does that look like? Here are my current thoughts. I couldn’t agree more with Sandra Wilson, who has declared, “Hurt People Hurt People” in her book by that very name. And I can attest to those very words. My stepmother’s first husband deeply wounded her. She deeply wounded me. I deeply wounded my good friend. And he became boxing champ of his school as his way to deal with that image of me which kept popping us in his mind. I have found that to the degree that we have not taken our spiritual and emotional wounds to the Lord for healing and allowed him to do a thorough work of cleansing and healing is the same degree that we may very well communicate similar neglect and abuse to those in our care.
Yet the great temptation is to get off the operating table way before he’s doctored us up and rush out and become a pastor or therapist who has no true comfort to give others. There can be a tendency to become workaholics or to anesthetize ourselves with drugs, alcohol, gambling, sexual immorality (porn is everywhere!), fits of rage or a host of other compulsions and addictions that harm us and everyone around us. But since “it is no longer I who [choose these toxic cures], but sin that dwells in me” (Romans 7:17 NKJV), the Lord seems to be saying, “It’s open season. Fire away!… Then get back on the table. I need to finish this surgery.”
I meant to say popping up, instead of popping us.