This is a guest post by Jim Gordon.
Jim is the contributor for Done with Religion, a blog site about living for God in a non-religious way. Jim grew up being part of the Methodist church for several years, then was part of several non-denominational churches over the next few years before leaving the institution. He and his wife, after many years in the organized church, have been living for God outside the walls of the traditional church. They live in the central Ohio area. Along with his blog, you can connect with Jim on Facebook and Twitter.
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My wife and I grew up in the organized church, spent many years involved and enjoyed it. At the time we thought this is what God intended and was the only way to obey the commands of the Bible about meeting together.
After years in the organization, we began to have an uneasy feeling about the way church was done. We were very unsatisfied each week going to a building, listening to one group of people lead the singing, then listening to one person do all the talking.
We started wondering why the pastor was the only person who had authority to speak for God and tell us how we were to act and believe. When we read verses such as I Corinthians 14:26 about each one of us having something to say, we wondered why that never happened.
After several years of questioning and being unhappy with the way church was performed, my wife and I made a decision to stop attending and see how we felt.
Of course the first thing many people told us was that we were wrong for staying away because the bible says not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together. After thinking about that verse for a while, I came to the conclusion that it was not talking about an organized meeting once a week in a building. We took this verse to mean that we needed our brothers and sisters in Christ on a daily basis in normal day to day living.
The first several months after leaving church as we knew it, the thing that seemed like a priority to us was finding something else to get involved in such as a small group or house church. After a short time we came to find that many house churches and small groups were actually nothing more than church on a smaller scale.
Now that we have been out of the organized system for a couple years, we are coming to realize we are having more meaningful fellowship without any type of organized group or meeting. Living for Christ is a daily lifestyle not a one day or now and then way of living. Jesus is living within us by the Holy Spirit and we fellowship with Him daily. He has been bringing people into our lives that share our thoughts about organized church, some for a long period, some for a short while, and others just on a one time basis.
We have found that since being out of the church system, we depend on God more and enjoy meaningful fellowship with others more than we did when it was at a set place on a set time frame with only a few select people in charge and doing all the teaching.
We believe that Church is a community of believers who get together anytime, anywhere, no matter if it is only 2 or 3 people. This is the assembling of the believers to us, fellowship time together anytime God brings it about realizing God is within us and we are the Church.
I am not going to say that the organized church is a bad thing, though I do believe it is not what God meant when He said He would build His Church. I have many happy memories in church, made many friends there and learned a lot about our Father. Yet at this point, neither my wife nor I would want to go back into the organized church with its many doctrines and religious ways of doing church. We have found so much more meaning and fellowship outside the walls and we are enjoying our walk down this path God has lead us too.
We also find it interesting that God leads us to people when we least expect it, even when it is someplace that no one would expect such as a restaurant, park, work or even a pub. We have also made a lot of friends that many religious people would not want to be around, yet the love of Christ within us draws us together in love and acceptance.
We were always taught in the church that we should separate ourselves from the non-believers and only talk to them when we could ‘witness’ for Christ. Basically that seems to mean talk to non-believers only when we can point out their mistakes or condemn them for their way of life. I never found in the bible where Jesus treated anyone that way.
If you are satisfied with the week to week services and religious ways of doing church that is OK. Stay there and enjoy the time you have with other like-minded believers. If you are questioning the way church is done, or if you are dissatisfied and looking to leave the organization then do so without feeling guilty. Seek God and ask Him to lead you, teach you and guide you in this new path outside the walls of religion.
I can relate to Jims story very much. My wife and I went a church business meeting last weekend (very reluctantly) to hear the reasoning why the churches constitution had to change to herald in true biblical leadership. In reality it was Calvinist dogma, wrapped up in a package of only the leadership understands Gods word and if you disagree with us then its our job to show you the truth. No other biblical interpretations are correct. Needless to say it didn’t get enough votes to pass but dissenting voices will now face isolation and intimidation and it will pass eventually. Thus it is true to say the church of Jesus Christ has left the building (in this case). My wife is a teacher and I am a chaplain and a therapist so we get to minister to so many people during the week who just need Christs grace. I have stopped much of my attendance on Sunday and found freedom. Its taken many many months to stop feeling guilty about this (last weekend fixed that for me). Jim’s correct God provides many divine opportunities to bump into people daily and experience the unexpected. Jeremys book dying to religion and empire is so true. Best wishes to both of you.
Thank you Grahame for your comment. We also felt guilty for a while when we did not go to the Sunday meeting, but we got over that fast. The freedom we enjoyed and the new people God brought into our lives for meaningful fellowship helped us forget those mornings of sitting quietly listening to someone else do all the talking. In your line of work, chaplain and therapist, I can see where the Spirit can work through you in a very meaningful way. Hang in there and trust God to bring you into fellowship with others who need what you have to offer in Christ.
My wife and I are church exiles as well, although out path has been a different one from Jim’s. I have retired and my wife and I are moving to the small city where we met and married. We have been pondering whether to look for a church, but I am wondering if instead we should be looking for other ways to become part of a community of faith. I am excited about the future, to see what God does.
Thanks for the blog post, Jim. And thanks for this site, Jeremy.
Hi Michael, thanks for the comment. Good luck on your move, I pray it goes good. I hate the thought of packing and moving, yet it is an exciting time. My wife and I have found that God can bring others into your life for fellowship, and from places and at times you are not even expecting. Go into this time asking the Spirit to guide you and for God to lead you to others for fellowship and encouragement. Be expecting divine appointments at any moment. This sounds like an exciting time for you two.
I have read your article on how moved out of church building,yes am seeing more than I could see at first,(living for Christ is a daily lifestyle and not a one day way of living,am getting more and more insight understanding on this,thanks for opening my mind.your are right.there is truth in it.i love the way you have expressed it.
Thank you Martha, living for Christ is a daily way of life. It involves every area of your life, so when it comes to living for God there is no separation from spiritual and physical. It is not a Sunday only thing it is every day. Remember it makes no difference if you attend a traditional church building or if you never walk into one, we are the Church and have the Spirit of God living within us. We are all equally important and functioning parts of his body with Christ as the head. Our way of life is to be one of loving God and loving others. Thanks for your comment.
It’s only been a year for me, but my experience has been very much the same.
Hi David, thanks for your comment. I’m finding more and more people who have left the institution and finding joy living for God outside the walls of religion. It is not for everyone and those who stay in organized religion love God just as much. For my wife and me it was a choice we felt was right for us and we have not regretted our decision. The main point whether in or out of the institutional church is to love God and love others.
Jeremy Myers, I think the books and articles that you share present a false dichotomy. Although it is true there are congregations more organized, or I prefer to say “formal” than others, that does not make them any less “the church”! As someone who has spent and been a leader both in the home church movement for about 15 years, and more formally structured congregations for the rest on my life, I can honestly say that there is more than ample room for the Holy Spirit to lead and be rejected in both paradigms.
Each model has its strong and weak points, but I find it very troubling that it is usually the “home churches” or those who don’t congregate at all, who are the first to gripe about the problems they perceive.
Right now I am part of a Nazarene fellowship that leases a building in the downtown area, runs a coffee shop there during the week, and participates in most all of the city wide community events. While we have a couple of pastors who do most of the teaching on Sunday morning and only those who are somewhat musically talented lead the worship, I don’t feel at all deprived of opportunities to serve and speak powerfully into the lives of others. Currently we hold a weekly small group bible study in our home and our neighbors house, in which half of the attendants are just neighbors, who don’t even attend our weekend services at the building. I teach Sunday school to the elementary kids once a month, and I am not even a formal member of the Nazarene denomination!
But, perhaps most significantly to the point at hand, I have the oppurtunity through my “organized church” to connect with and find resource in a community that is large enough and diverse enough to actually represent the Body of Christ, with all of its critical parts! Apart from this amazing organization I would not have a visable association for the lost world around me to see, understand and be drawn into. Without the services, and classes, and formal opportunities to give and serve, there would be no model for those who are new to the faith to learn how to worship God in all of the multifaceted capabilities we have been given by our Lord.
So, am I saying that my congregation is perfect, and has the whole church thing down better than anyone else? By all means no! We have and will always have room to grow and mature and shine more brightly, but when that happens we will not be anymore “the church” than we are right now!
I guess all I am saying is, please try to be more charitable to those who are doing church in a different paradigm than the one you are comfortable in. You might even discover that they are the feet, which you as the legs are standing upon.
Please don’t be offended, Jim isn’t condemning organized churches. He said at the end of the article “If you are satisfied with the week to week services and religious ways of doing church that is OK. Stay there and enjoy the time you have with other like-minded believers. “
Ben, this is not actually my post. It is a guest post on my blog written by Jim Gordon. I will let him respond, but I think that if you had read the whole article on the blog, you might see that he is not bashing different ways of doing church. Nor am I.
Sorry Ben, I would have responded sooner but thought this was directed to Jeremy. Just to be clear, I am not against the organized church and that way of fellowship. I grew up in that for nearly 60 years. For my wife and me we felt led out of the organization because for us, we found a better way of community and fellowship without the religious part and the doctrine and denominational aspect. Everyone has to choose for themselves the way they find fellowship and life with God that seems best. There are many inside the institution who are happy and satisfied and love God. There are many outside the walls of religion who are just as happy and satisfied and love God just as much. I think the main thing for all of us is to accept one another and the decisions we make for fellowship and following Jesus without thinking we have to all see things the same.
>I find it very troubling that it is usually the “home churches” or those who don’t congregate at all, who are the first to gripe about the problems they perceive.
a) How much of that is simply a function of the size of the group?
Assuming the size of congregation/number of congregations data holds true at the home church size, there are far more congregations there, than at the “meet in a building” group. However, far more people attend a “meet in a building” group, than in a home church.
As such, _if_ abuse rates «physical, spiritual, sexual, psychological», as a percentage, are the same, there will be far more victims from groups that “meet in a building”. I realize that that is a mighty big if, especially if reported instances of sexual abuse are rough indicators of overall abuse. (Basically, whilst smaller groups reported numerically fewer victims, a greater percentage of the members were abused.)
b) How much of that is based on percieved name recognition?
_St Nobody Catholic Church_
_First Baptist church of Nowhere
“that group that meets at Nathaniel & Olive Bodie’s house”
Given a similar story on each of those groups, the fourth estate will run with a story on the first, and then the second. The story on the third group will probably be morphed into ” Nathaniel and Olive Bodie”, if it runs at all.
Non-fourth estate dispersion of the story will drop “that group that meets”, linking it directly to Nathaniel and Olive Bodie.
>please try to be more charitable to those who are doing church in a different paradigm than the one you are comfortable in
I don’t see either Jim or Jeremy as dissing either individuals, or congregations that meet in a building, per se.
Thanks Jonathon. We all want to serve and worship our Father. We all have different ways of doing that, and no one way is THE way. We are to love one another no matter which way we choose, or if we choose not to follow God at all. He loves each and every one of us and we should do the same. Thanks for the comment.
Ben, you have a point there; but what Jeremy is saying also has an aotha of truth. Christianity is all about practing what the bible teaches. You can still be in an organized Church and please God. Now do we say because the leaders of the churches are doing what’s wrong so we jettison the term church??.. No!..we are one people in Christ, we have to correct one another’s mistakes in other to build a church that worth emulating. Be ware!..if you start a family church, it will go a long way to become a “formal church”
So true Frank, anything that gets officially organized seems to eventually turn into a traditional church. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you are looking for. Just keep Christ as the central figure and serve and love others like He did. Thanks for commenting.
The Church is the body of Christ not a building. It’s people in one place worshiping Jesus Christ. It’s in the Word. Never give up on meeting together.
Jim would pretty much agree with you, I think.
Yes, I agree. Fellowship together can take place anywhere, anytime.
When 2 or more gather in His name, there is He and there is church, no set time or place is ever necessary; yet, we must come together to experience Christ.
Exactly Sam, I agree. We are His church and He is with us when and where we meet.
Any system that allows all believers to minister in their giftings is good. My experience is that the Church organized in buildings tends to restrict the decision making and the bulk of the ministering to the professionals. This is wrong, and unscriptural. (1 Cor. 12)
Hi BJ, for me that is the way I see it too. I do not want to condemn the organization, I just feel for us there is a better way.
The true value of this post is to demonstrate that there is yet one more way we can worship God without guilt. The scripture indicates God can be worshipped in many ways and He still accepts us. The Christian who condemns others for their style of worship are ultimately fighting with God. Both sides of this argument can produce a negative. Those who insist the organized church is of Satan will find all kinds of contradictions in the Spirit and the Bible. Those who condemn those who follow their conscience and leave ‘the Building’, will likewise be in conflict with the Spirit of Christ if they condemn those who worship another way.
However, I like Mr. Gordon’s central reason for leaving: ‘When we read verses such as I Corinthians 14:26……”
Shouldn’t we all follow what we feel are God’s instructions? Personally, I feel there are lot’s of errors handed down through tradition from well meaning men; some, even, in the ‘not-so-organized church’. But the remedy is not criticing, but simply, following God’s light as we see it. Think about it….if I am not following the Holy Spirit as He reveals truth to me, then I have larger problems than if I might disagree about one tradition or another. Thanks Jim for your post.
Thanks Peter, I could not say it any better than you did.
~ I’m all for the Church (the people) leaving the building as long as they don’t leave the Bible . . . I like how Robert Heidler, a guest on Sid Roth, described what a first century church (people) gathering was like. It was a fun gathering with food, fellowship and communion. Much more pleasant than staring at the back of someone’s head while one guy at the front does all the talking.
Yep. And especially if they continue to follow Jesus as He leads them into relationships and service.
I agree.
Indeed
~ only after leaving a Christian Cult (yes, they exist) was I able to come to true relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ . . . and it took almost twenty years of being out before I could even begin to grasp that I was loved. The baseball bat wielding ogre-God was all I knew ever since as far back as I could remember. It also set me up to think that church abuse was normal and why it took me almost 25 years to be able to walk out with fear and trembling. It took another five years for the tormenting voices in my head to stop screaming, “Apostate!.”
It was a lady with an kind, understanding voice who answered the phone at the number in the back of the book, ‘Recovering from Churches that Abuse’ that put me onto Ezekiel 34, which I read through tears which made it nearly impossible to see that gave my soul the smallest ray of light and an even smaller feeling of hope. From those first fledgling steps I have rebuilt my relationship with my Lord and Saviour. My family and I have not returned to corporate assembling although we tried four times; each one, in their own unique way, was reminiscent of the putrid stench of ‘goodness tainted’ which continues to be, not a stumbling block, but a stepping stone to a road less travelled and much preferred.
Selah
Thanks Kasimira. So sad to hear that you had such trouble and abuse in the system. Fortunately not everyone goes through such things in the organization. Yet God has led you out of organized religion, as he did my wife and me, and it is certainly for the best for us. There are others who love traditional church meetings and organized religion and it goes good for them. We are all trying to serve God and love Him. What works for one does not work for another, yet we can all love and accept each other with the love of Christ. Thanks for posting.
Its a great thread in this blog. In the end each believer needs to see if the group they are meeting together with are communing with Christ, caring for the saints and ministering Christ to the community. If not then question your presence there and see what Christ is calling you to do. The institutional church is changing and shrinking so expect more change. I notice in Australia that the stats from all denominations indicate that if you have less than 120 members attending you will struggle to employ a Pastor and pay your bills. A fact that is forcing change even if we dont like it.
So true. No matter which way you choose to follow God the main point is to keep Christ as the head, and love and serve others as Christ demonstrated. Numbers are not the important thing, but looking to Christ as the head. We are all equally important parts of the body whether we gather as 2 or 3 or hundreds or more. Thanks Grahame.
I am very interested in the walk of the people who have given up on Church as a place or institution. I want to put those brothers and sisters unique wisdom into place in my heart and family. The Body of Christ is all believers everywhere.
I am attending a small no name Christian Fellowship that meets at a large Christian School. We collect no offerings and no person has any title. About five people men and women prepare messages regularly and we are thirty to forty people who spend good amounts of time together. Most of the people that attend are connected through the Christian School
I guess we could be called institution lite. Still I might prefer even less tradition but I am highly blessed by my Christian brothers and sisters.
I agree with most of the post if you are blessed stay without guilt but if you feel you must be free please leave the institution but find deep connection to other brothers and sisters. Please be a willing missionary to the world for Jesus in whatever shape that takes. Every Christian must Be a free range Christian inside organizations, outside organizations or any mix Jesus sends our way.
Good comment Mike. It is so true, we need our brothers and sisters for fellowship, love and acceptance. It does not necessarily mean meeting in a building at a set time on a set day. It can happen any day, any time, any where. Following Christ as our head and each of our brothers and sisters as important and equal parts of His body is the Church to me. Sounds like you are part of a good group of people. Thanks for commenting.