I have a friend who sees everything wrong with the world, and then looks at the average Christian, and as a result wants nothing to do with Christianity.
He says that it appears Christians would rather spend their time arguing and debating theology than helping the poor and homeless, and would rather drive Hummers and build huge church buildings than drill wells in Africa or feed orphans.
He doesn’t think that Jesus would be a “Christian” if Jesus were walking the earth today.
The other day, he showed me a YouTube video where a secular rock artist posted his video about this very thing.
The artist was very angry. The video and song lyrics show Christians going to church and pastors preaching sermons, all the while ignoring the hungry and needy that are all around them. The basic message of the song is “Christians need to stop praying and preaching and building huge cathedrals for themselves, and start doing something that actually helps!”
After I watched the video, my friend turned to me and said, “I think there is a special place in hell for Christians.”
Whether you realize it or not, this is the prevalent attitude toward Christianity among those who are ages 18-35. If you don’t believe this is true, you probably don’t know many non-Christians who are 18-35 years old.
How have we as Christians come to this, and what (if anything) can we do about it?
Here are two books I recently read which may be of some help in this area:
This is an excellent post. The truth is hard to hear, but you are right, us Christians have placed so much emphasis on religion, self-righteousness, outward appearance, superficial morality, and fighting the world with the weapons of force, fear, domination, and manipulation instead of mercy, compassion, and sacrificial love. We need to surrender our lust for power and recognition and return to the radical teachings of Jesus, it’s not easy task, but it must happen if the church is ever going to be the true light of the world Jesus envisioned.
I would ask the unbelieving critic what she thinks Christians should be doing. And then ask whether she does those things.
Jeremy,
Another good post, Judaism went astray became a system of works versus trusting in God – crucified the Messiah, the Church became a corporate entity with a sacerdotal system of power – no one wants anything to do with it, we make all kinds of excuses to not become disciples of Christ Jesus, but we like our progressive sanctification just fine in the pew. Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of hard working believers who are disciples and are risking their lives to reflect the image of Jesus to a hostile world.
I especially like the part where you point out theological arguments – when it denigrates I withdraw. C. H. Macintosh said it best,
“God has not confined Himself within the narrow limits of any school of doctrine – high, low or moderate. He has revealed Himself. He has told out the deep and precious secrets of His heart. He has unfolded His eternal counsels, as to the Church, as to Israel, the Gentiles, and the wide creation. Men might as well attempt to confine the ocean in buckets of their own formation as to confine the vast range of divine revelation within the feeble enclosures of human systems of doctrine. It cannot be done, and it ought not to be attempted. Better far to set aside the systems of theology and schools of divinity and come like a little child to the eternal fountain of Holy Scripture, and there drink in the living teachings of God’s Spirit.” (C.H. Mackintosh, The Mackintosh Treasury, Miscellaneous Writings by C.H. Mackintosh, (Loizeaux Brothers, New Jersey, 1976), 605.)
Jim
P.S. Matthew C. How do you know that Tia is an unbeliever? And even if she is, Jesus spent a lot of His ministry with sinners and tax collectors…we should follow the example don’t you agree?
Thanks for the post. Well written. I think the answer to your question is easy AND hard- we have to get out of our cloistered Christian communities, connect with the non-Christian world around us, and love them unconditionally…..that’s what will change the world around us….it always has in the past.
What makes you think for a minute that the church isn’t helping the poor. I know many who do so, and don’t go around trying to be noticed for doing it. By far the majority of people doing benevolence in the world today come from some form of Christianity. Arguments within the church are a product of the falleness of man and the determination of Satan to neutralize the effects of the church by promoting just this kind of dribble. Conflict is a necessary part of purifying and defining theology. There is a move afloat to denounce theology, but theology is what moves us. We all operate withing the confines of our view of God (theology). We all have one, and since we do, it does us well to define it and make certain it is in alignment with the bible. This sort of nonsense is always a diversion to dealing with your own relationship with God and following your own selfish motives for living.
Hmmm…a wide variety of responses to this post…
Matthew C: Who is the female unbeliever you are referring to? The friend I referred to in my post is male. Are you referring to Tia? What gives you the impression she is an unbeliever? Nevertheless, you raise a good question that needs to be asked of all critics of Christianity. Of course, we are the ones who claim to be following Jesus, not they. So it seems like we are the ones who have more responsibility to serve.
Jim: Thanks for the quote from Mackintosh. I have that volume and have enjoyed reading from it over the years.
Mike: Excellent summary. I checked out your blog. It looks like you are a pastor. Are you finding the people of your church willing to reach out with love? What has been effective?
Mark: I’m not sure if you were commenting about my post or someone’s comment. Either way, none of us said that the church is not helping the poor. Furthermore, none of us are saying that we need to neglect theology. The quote from Mackintosh comes the closest to saying that, and if you think that is what he is saying, you should get his book and read it. It’s pure theology. Finally, are you really saying that serving and loving others is a work of Satan–a diversion from dealing with our relationship with God and provides an excuse for selfish living? I am fully persuaded that one doesn’t really have an intimate relationship with God UNLESS they are serving and loving others. What good is all the theology in all the books in all the libraries of the world if it doesn’t cause a person to provide food and clothing for the hungry and naked (James 2:14-26)?
In my comments I was referring to the original article “Would Jesus be a Christian”. Balance is the key to understanding any of these issues. It is always tempting to fall out of balance in order to make a point, and that (it seems to me) is what this article does. I’m certainly not saying that helping others is satanic. That would be absurd, but what I am saying is that Satan uses this mentality to discourage people from investigating and or accepting Christianity as a viable personal relationship that really changes lives. I m sure he would love nothing better than to spread the lie that christians are a bunch of petty academics splitting hairs while the world is going to hell in a hand basket. No one (me included) would suggest (I hope) that Christianity should not produce works, but having said that it is important to understand that genuine (God ordained) works come from a persons view of God. Understanding doctrine and theology is critically important to the growth of the church, and has been under attack these past few decades as being divisive and damaging and anti productive. This attitude lends itself to the passivity and apathy within the modern evangelical church. The church is desperate for men and women leaders who are doctrincally sound and tuned into the culture. In short, works is not a good theology, but sound theology is never devoid of good works. Just as a closing note, I’ve read much of C H Mackintosh’s materials online and have some in print. He was an amazing man mightily used of God and I look forward someday to sitting down with him myself and discussing a few things.
Mark,
Thanks for the clarification. I think I completely agree with you.
I may have strongly stated the case for social action, but this is only because for too many years, I have been too focused on head knowledge and learning the Bible and theology, and I feel that finally, my theology is starting to result in practice. Certain areas of my theology have been influential in getting me to this point, and this post is one way of showing one of those truths of theology.
Jeremy, Thanks for the kind response. I read back over my comments. If I sounded harsh I apologize. We’re all in process. I look forward to more lively discussion on relevant topics. God bless,
Jesus was not a Christian, but he did what he thought it was right and that is what counts for every mortal today’s day.
“Doing what you think is right” is not the answer Jesus gave when he started his ministry. He told the crowd: “I come to being the Truth”. Each one of the above posts have some new age, fooled followers of: another “jesus”. Not The Jesus of Holy Scriptures”. And someone who denys Jesus is Lord, and listen to doctrines of demons. And has a hardened heart against the things of God. Shows someone a YouTube video: which they say shows “Christians” not looking after the” poor? I see ONLY the Christian Community under the mandates of Holy God , going into all the world to teach, and feed and comfort those in need. This “comment” from someone who already HATES the Face Of God! Shows a person who WANTS the message of Jesus Christ to be: untrue! And uses “human works” as a: gage! Holy Scipture and The Triune God, does not need people who hate them – telling others , who and who is not; A Christian. God looks on the Heart. And soul. And knows who are His. And he is telling us to look to His words(The Bible) for all spiritual source of Truth. Not “human works”. That comes after Salvation. And redemption. And repentance. And faith in The One True Living God!
I did not read ALL the posts, but did anybody comment on where the term “Christian” came from? LOL It was a term used to insult believers in Jesus’ day and literally means “little Chirst” As in, “Oh! Those silly people are being like jesus. what are they thinking?” But you can see that this actually turned into a compliment. SO, Jesus is WHAT a christian is. (Or what a Christian is supposed to be)
Secondly, we can talk about “the church” and “christians” all we want BUT it is up to the individual to make a difference. complaining is not going to help. (exposure and education, yes. Complaining… no) Be the change you want to see.
Also, the “church” and “christians” are not our example, JESUS is. Don’t blame Jesus for people’s imperfections… Depend on him to help you love/serve/heal/grow and be what we are called to be… like Jesus. i.e. Christian 😉
I think that your religion does not define who you are. I know many Christians who couldn’t care less about anyone besides themselves, and I know just as many or more Christians who would do anything to end war and poverty if only they knew how.
I think that at the core of Christianity, and most major religions, is to love and respect your others, God and yourself, and all the rest is just to help understand and rules for people who don’t know where to start.
And there is an important point- belief is up to individual interpretation, and since God gave us free will and intelligent brains to chose our interpretation, it is up to us whether we take His will to mean that we must love and serve others or to mean that, for example, if you divorce or are homosexual you will burn in enternal anguish in Hell. Any of you readers may think this, but that is your interpretation and not mine and I do not mean to judge, merely observe.
This is why not every person of the same belief is the same- Muslims, Christians, Jews, agnostics, athelists, native spiritualists, Buddhists or whatever you are, you have an equal chance of being good or being bad. It is all in the choices you make, not where you life or which kind of church, mosque, etc., or lack of one, you attend.
Cheers, and I hope you can all gain something from this post, be it insight, another point of view or merely entertainment. 🙂
Isn’t if funny how we (inclusive) think? I know a lot of people in my religion think Jesus would naturally be one of “us”, though they can’t seem to stomach what He did on the daily basis, which was go where the need was and be the influence of good. Rememeber the WWJD campaign? I doubt he would join any organization, I believe he would show up from time to time in different spots where the need was, just like he didn’t stay with just one congregation when he went to the synogogue in Israel.
As simple as it is, Jesus’ life was not what we like to think. We see the power and the glory, not the humility and deep care and empathy He showed others. As some above have already said, He hung with the “wrong” crowd, but He was the Right guy, unaffected by them, always the influence, not the follower. We need to be like Him no matter what congregation we hail from. This is not a knock on any organization, I just feel like we spend a little too much time being an organization and not enough time actually being Christians.
Thanks for the chance to share, all the best!
JJ,
Excellent comment! Great insights and questions. I agree completely. Thanks.
i am nazarene and find this offensive jesus of nazareth means he was a nazarene haha good point above though
jesus is jewish. not christian.
Anonymous,
Nazareth is a place, not an ethnicity. Do you mean you are part of the Nazarene denomination?
“jesus”
Did you read the post? Your comment makes me think you did not.
It has nothing to do with Jesus’ ethnic or religious backgrounds. I know Jesus was Jewish. I know He was not a “Christian.” But Christians claim to be followers of Jesus the Messiah. The point of the post is that many of us do not seem to be following His teachings or values, let alone His example.
Yeah this makes total sense, considering Jesus created the Catholic church and bestowed the position of Pope to St.Peter. A flawed argument, I feel.
V,
Read some church history to find out where the “Catholic Church” came from. Or simply read the Bible. Niether the “catholic church” nor “the pope” are in there.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not anti-catholic any more than I am anti-protestant. We simply need to know how the church became what it is.
As a Jewish-born Atheist who falls just outside the age range of 18-35, I can agree with much of what you have said in your original post. However, I do not believe it is just Christians who fall into this mindset. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Sikhs, and many other groups often fail to realize that at some level, we are all just human and nothing else. I believe religion is worth little compared to compassion, understanding, generosity, honesty, and kindness. Religion should be a vehicle to spread these values more than anything else. I understand that this is not a belief shared by all.
HP Sala,
As a former agnostic of purportedly Hebrew descent, I would like to encourage you to look at the reality of our universe with as much objectivity as possible and with utmost open-mindedness and honesty ask: ” Is there God, and if so, who or what is right?” This was my path, and I found the answer as God revealed Himself to me in this quest, though I did not seek anything specific. I just wanted to know THE Truth, whatever it may be. Now, almost a decade later, I can testify of events and occurences absolutely inexplicable by the current state of scientific and technological human prowess, things that are physically impossible according to our understanding, and yet, they were. If you would like to know more, we can discuss this; meanwhile, I encourage you to look for THE Truth, having bracketed your pre-assumptions, begin with a clean slate, so to speak. After all, if we all err, and there is no existence beyond this carnal one, we’d simply disappear into the oblivion, but if there is something, it’s better to be on the right path, in this life, and in the one to come.
Best wishes to you!
Keep Walking,
I disagree completely with your last statement. Some people may choose to follow one religion or another because they fear they will burn in hell when they die, but I will not be one of those people. To people of my generation, hell is nothing but an abstract concept. And, someone who has no attachment to a particular faith sees it this way: if Catholics are right, all non-Catholics are going to hell; if Muslims are right, all non-Muslims are going to hell; if Evangelicals are right, all non-Evangelicals are going to hell; if Scientologists are right, when we die our alien souls will be recycled into the collective energy. I have no reason to believe that one religious faction is ‘more correct’ than any other. I believe that if you strive to live a moral life, put more back into the world than you take out of it, and don’t tell anyone they’re going to hell unless they convert to X religion, you are my friend and fellow human.
Best wishes to you as well,
HPSala
HPSala,
I am curious to see what Keep Walking says to this. I hope he/she (??) is still reading.
Keep Walking,
I must admit I am curious about what you mean by ‘THE’ truth. THE Catholic truth or THE Jewish truth or THE Wiccan truth or THE other truth? (I am, however, not interested in converting. Just curious.)
HPSala
HPSala,
I agree with you. I say, screw religion. Let’s learn to live in love with each other. If we claim to be religious, can’t do this, we are deceiving ourselves.
I am currently beginning to meet with a group of people who consist of an agnostic, two Rastafarians, a wiccan, a Christian, and a few others. We have agreed to not argue about doctrine or anything like that, but to read about Jesus and try to live like him in our world, with love, compassion, forgiveness, generosity, and kindness. I wish you could join us!
Jeremy, I am sorry, but is this really your stance? Is this where years of theological study are leading you?
“I agree with you. I say, screw religion. Let’s learn to live in love with each other.”
Or are you simply trying to establish relationships with different people to bear witness of Christ through your life, so that they too, will eventually come to the knowledge of the Truth?
In the first case, may I remind you, that it is NOT the works that save, for then there would be no need of Christ coming into human world and undergoing everything that He did. Accepting His redeeming sacrifice for our transgressions against God’s will and for any and ALL wrongdoings to others is what saves from eternal separation from God, i.e. hell. Now, out of that acceptance, indicating belief into Jesus’s Godness, come the works, which manifest the faith. “Good” deeds alone are insufficient, for with just about every good deed, there comes a not so good one, or not so good thoughts. As the Scripture says: “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” But this can be a protracted monologue, so I will stop at this point.
In the second case, may the Lord God give you the wisdom, the strength, and the integrity to carry on His work.
God bless!
Keep Walking,
I am not quite sure what you thought I was trying to say. Religion is man’s attempt to work his way to God. All such attempts are doomed from the start.
As such, I don’t trust or hold to any religion. I do, however, believe in Jesus for eternal life, and am learning to follow Him every day. You can see this by reading a few more of my posts.
I agree with Keep Walking (provided that I understand him correctly). I really don’t understand why so many Christians are so eager to make ‘religion’ into a dirty word, other than apparently to say about other religions ‘Those things are religions, they’re bad, we’re nothing like that.’
“Religion is man’s attempt to work his way to God.”
That’s simply not what religion means, certainly there are religions that have practices that attempt to ‘work their way to God’ in some fashion, but that isn’t what makes something a religion. A religion is a belief system about the cause and purpose of the universe (or usually more to the point the cause and purpose of Man).
If what you believe is not a religion, then you simply believe that Jesus was just an ordinary person who taught a nice way to live your life and you choose to follow it, clearly your beliefs don’t stop there. If you also believe that God created Heaven, Earth, Man, and everything that exists, and furthermore that God revealed himself to us in the person of Jesus the Christ and that in addition to teaching us he sacrificed himself for us and that faith in Him is necessary and sufficient to be given the unearned gift of an everlasting life with God, then what you believe is by definition a religion and there is no reason to treat the word scornfully.
The prompt for Keep Walking’s ‘protracted monologue’ is that when you say “…screw religion. Let’s learn to live in love with each other.” you are saying (and I know you don’t mean this) that you do not believe anything at all about God, you simply chose to live your life by following someone’s guidelines to love each other.
John,
There is “religion” and then there is “religion.” One form of religion I reject, the form that most people think of, which is a list of dos and don’ts whereby we can work our way to heaven.
If that is what someone means by religion, I want no part of it.
However, if by “religion” you mean a way of living life in fellowship with God and other people, then by all means, sign me up! Technically, this is what the Bible means by “religion” as we see in verses like James 1:27 where true religion that God accepts and pure and faultless is to look after orphans and widows in their distress and keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
I don’t mind that kind of religion, focused on purity, love, and service. It’s the other kind that I am against.
Anyway, since most people think of the first kind when talking about religion, it is easier to say “I’m not religious” than to say, “I am religious, but here is what I mean by that…”
An excellent thought prompt! we are messed up! As my Dad used to say, “people are people” This is true of Christian and non. Thank God for Jesus! We really need him! I define Christian as “A True Follower of Jesus” >
Dan,
Thanks for the comment. Yes, Christians are those who follow Jesus. In Scripture, “Christian” is equivalent to “disciple” or follower.
Yes yes and yes.
(apparently I agree)
The question is whether we’re worshipping our beliefs (Christianity) or God. The two are not the same.
Great, great point!
I’ve read BOTH of these books. I left the Methodist church because I encountered the “clubhouse” mentality here in Portland Oregon. Many of us who bothered to read the Gospel accounts and find the Gospel to be “The Kingdom of the Heavens” to be Jesus’ message are not received well in these churches. Another great book that I recommend on a better vision of Jesus and what the Kingdom brings is “No More Christian Nice Guy by Paul Coughlin. Check it out.
I haven’t heard of that book by Coughlin. I will check it out. Thanks!
I think people spend too much time running their mouth but not moving, lets be active christians empowered by the holy spirit with a supernatural love that the world longs for! Love is everything! How did Paul walk in such power and change Ephesus? LOVE! Model what they needed not what they thought was relevant!!
Yes! Love is the key to it all! It is what Jesus modeled, and how we are to live as His followers.
Jesus did not come to start a religion. Jesus is not the founder and leader of Christianity. Jesus came to show us the love of God. Christianity as we know it is a religion of doctrines, rules, denominations and man-led religious ways. Christianity as a religion is not needed to be a follower of Jesus. He came to show us that God loves us, each and every one of us no matter what religion we follow, if any at all. The term christian came into being because people saw the followers of Jesus living and acting like him so they called them little Christs. In that sense, I would much rather be known as a follower of Jesus than be called a Christian. In my opinion, it seems when we say Christian we immediately put ourselves into a box based on what others think a Christian is, and most think of an organization or denomination and the specific doctrines of that organization. The term follower of Jesus seems to be more specific as to who we are and who we follow.
Jim, We agree. The term has taken on new meaning. Many people we know think it mostly has to do with religion, politics, conservative positions on “culture war” issues, and an odd assortment of other things. Strangely, when we ask people what they think it means, they rarely mention anything about Jesus. When we had a short discussion about this with one fellow, and asked him what he thought a follower of Jesus is, he said “that’s another thing altogether.” Interesting, huh?
Christianity is a pagan religion. Just a continuation of babel. Jesus would not recognize them as followers.
I’m sorry some of you feel this way but we need to examine what Jesus told the disciples (and us that bear his name). Before he was taken up jesus said that we should go throughout the world making disciples of all nations. He didn’t say anything about social justice, slavery, equal rights, poverty, or women’s rights before he left. Those are all good things to be sure but that’s not the mission and Christ knew that. Jesus didn’t die so that you could feel better by helping your neighbor. His death and resurrection are the good news; that we can be reconciled to God, the fear of death and eternal punishment are taken away. Jesus shows us that the pinnacle of who we were meant to be are reached through and by him. You may know or not, that all the great humanitarian efforts were done by Christians trying to show the world that Jesus works thru his people.
So if none of these are true Christian religion’s what one’s are?
All anyone who wants to know what Jesus would approve of is read the 4 gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and it will be obvious to everyone what he does and doesn’t like and what people including Christians will or won’t be going to heaven.
An example of this is whoever gives food or drink to someone has done it to Jesus