John 6 contains some of the most important texts on the topic of election. It is not uncommon for Calvinists to frequently reference some of the texts of John 6 in their defense of Unconditional Election. Here is what these verses say:
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out (John 6:37).
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day (John 6:39).
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:44).
And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father” (John 6:65).
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” (John 6:70).
As can be seen, several of these texts seem to pretty clearly state that God sovereignly chooses who will come to Jesus.
How a Calvinist understands John 6:44
John 6:44 is especially strong, for Jesus says that no one comes to Jesus unless it has been granted to him by the Father. Palmer explains these texts in this way:
It is clearly seen that those who will be raised up at the last day—all true believers—are given to Christ by the Father. And only those whom the Father gives to Christ can come to Him. Salvation lies entirely in the hands of the Father. He it is who gives them to Jesus to be saved. … This is nothing else than unconditional election (Palmer, Five Points of Calvinism, 27).
In a similar vein, though with much stronger words, the Calvinistic author Spencer writes this regarding his belief about what Jesus is saying:
It is tantamount to blasphemy for anyone to argue that man is capable, of his own free will, to make a decision for Christ, when the Son of God says in words that cannot be misunderstood, “No man can come to me, except the Father … draw him” (Spencer, TULIP, 42).
John 6:44 and the Choice of Jesus
Despite the risk of being accused of blasphemy for disagreeing with Spencer, there are two strong indications in this text that not all is as clear as the Calvinist would have us believe.
The first indication is in John 6:66 when some of those who were following Jesus did in fact turn away and stop following. If Jesus loses none of those who come to Him, how is it that some of those who came to Him stopped following Him? Did Jesus lose them or did He not? Or, as a third option, maybe something else entirely is going on in this text.
The second indication that something else might be going on is found in John 6:70. Calvinists who like to cite John 6:44 and some of the other verses in this chapter as proof for their doctrine of Unconditional Election almost never cite John 6:70.
If they do quote the verse, they usually only quote the first half of John 6:70. Those who quote the whole verse often do so in an attempt to prove reprobation, that God chooses some for eternal damnation.
In this text, Jesus says that He has chosen all twelve of His disciples, but one of them is a devil.
Understandably, this verse causes great problems for those who teach that God’s election is only to eternal life. Jesus clearly chooses Judas, just as He chooses the other eleven. And yet, Judas “is a devil.” This text either proves that reprobation is true, or that the choice, or election, of Jesus is not regarding the eternal destiny of people.
And in fact, since this entire chapter is about how followers of God become followers of Jesus, and since we have consistently seen in previous posts that election is to service, it is better to understand John 6:70 in this regard, as well as the other verses in this chapter about those who come to Jesus.
The Choice of Jesus in John 6 cannot be to eternal life
If election is to eternal life as the Calvinist presumes, then John 6:70 contains the strange teaching that Jesus elected Judas to eternal life, knowing that Judas was (or will be) controlled by the devil.
Very few Calvinists would like to admit that Judas was elect, yet in John 6:70, Jesus clearly states that He chose all twelve, including Judas (cf. Luke 6:13). It makes much more sense to realize that election is not to eternal life, but to purpose and to service.
Only in this way can we allow for Judas to be chosen, or “elected” by Jesus, for Judas did in fact serve a very special role and purpose within the ministry and mission of Jesus. All the apostles were chosen for a vocation—including Judas. “Unquestionably Judas shared the election of the other eleven (Luke 6:13; John 6:70)” (Klein, The New Chosen People, 270).
Jesus does not say, “I have chosen eleven of you but the other is a devil.” The election of Judas was no different from that of the others. … Election was not about whether a person went to heaven or to hell; it was the bestowal of an office and a task (Marston and Forster, God’s Strategy in Human History, 138).
So how then are we to understand what Jesus is teaching in John 6?
While Jesus does explain how a person receivers eternal life (cf. John 6:40, 47), the reception of eternal life is not itself connected with a sovereign decree or election of God.
Quite to the contrary, in the overall context of John 6, Jesus is explaining why some people follow Him as disciples and others do not (cf. John 6:60-71).
So while the reception of eternal life by faith is mentioned in this passage, the overall theme is about discipleship. To be a disciple, of course, simply means to be a student, learner, follower, or apprentice. To be a disciple means to be taught by God, which is exactly what Jesus says in John 6:45.
Not all who have eternal life consistently follow Jesus in discipleship, and not all who are disciples of Jesus have eternal life. While it would be ideal for all believers to be disciples and all disciples to be believers, it does not always work out this way, as John 6 clearly reveals.
The various groups of John 6 could be pictured with a Venn diagram, where there is a group of people who believe in Jesus for eternal life but choose not to follow Him (John 6:60, 66), and there is a group who follow Him but who do not believe in Him for eternal life (John 6:70-71), but there is one overlapping group of people who both believe in Him and follow Him (John 6:68-69).
This sort of division in people’s response to Jesus can be seen throughout the Gospel of John. (Of course, there is also a fourth group in John, which neither believes in Jesus nor follows Him.)
John 6, however, is not just about these various groups.
Those given to Jesus by the Father
In the events described in John 6, Jesus also explains why it is that some come to follow Him while others do not. Jesus states repeatedly in this passage that those who come to follow Him were given to Him by God the Father (John 6:37, 39, 44, 65).
These are the texts that Calvinists often cite as evidence for the doctrine of Unconditional Election.
But note that none of these texts are in reference to the people who believe in Jesus for eternal life. Jesus is speaking about those who become His disciples.
Note as well that the ones about whom Jesus is speaking in John 6 are all Jewish. Jesus is not making a blanket statement about all people everywhere who will come to Jesus. Instead, He is speaking specifically about why certain Jews follow Him while others do not. Jesus’ explanation is that those Jewish people who come to Him are those who previously worshipped the Father. And now that the Father has sent His Son into the world, those who used to worship the Father are now directed by the Father to worship the Son.
In other words, God is giving His worshippers to Jesus. It is much like how the disciples of John stopped following him and became disciples of Jesus instead (cf. John 1:37-39; 3:25-30).
John 6 is a chapter about transition.
Jesus is explaining that those who hear and learn from the Father, will be instructed by the Father to hear and learn from Jesus (John 6:45).
Those who used to be disciples of God the Father, are now given to Jesus to be His disciples. In other words, those Jewish people who do not follow Jesus, simply indicate that they were not truly following God. They do not have eternal life, not because they were not elect, but because they would not come to Jesus in faith (cf. John 5:40).
Since Jesus is sent from God, those who follow God will now follow Jesus, and Jesus will not drop, reject, or lose anyone who comes to Him from God (John 6:39). All of this is reiterated and clarified in John 10 (which will be looked at in a future post), and the prayer of Jesus in John 17:2-24.
John 6 compared to John 17
In John 17, Jesus uses very similar language as He uses here in John 6, but in John 17, He is speaking primarily about the apostles. These twelve were chosen to receive special revelation about God through Jesus Christ (John 17:6). They belonged to God, but were given to Jesus by God (John 17:9) so that they might behold the glory of God in Jesus Christ (John 17:24). And though they were given to Him, Jesus lost none of them, except for Judas (John 17:12).
Over and over again, using terminology very similar to that used in John 6, Jesus speaks of His twelve apostles and the special purpose, privilege, and service to which they were called. The primary subject of Jesus’ teaching in John 6, 10, and 17 regarding the people whom God has given to Jesus are His apostles. “A definite group is being given to Christ during his earthly ministry—not before the foundation of the world. The ones given are Jewish disciples” (Vance, Other Side of Calvinism, 344).
They previously belonged to God as His followers, but God gave them to Jesus so that Jesus could fulfill and complete His earthly ministry. Even Judas, though he was unregenerate, had a role to play. Judas too was chosen by Jesus. He too had a task or ministry to perform (Klein, The New Chosen People, 129).
Eternal life and Being Chosen for Service
Nevertheless, we cannot ignore that in the context of Jesus’ teaching about those whom He chooses for service, He mentions the fact that He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him for it (John 6:40, 47). What is the connection between receiving eternal life by faith, and being chosen by Jesus for service?
It is this: While God sometimes sovereignly chooses individuals to serve Him in some special way, everyone and anyone who simply and only believes in Jesus for eternal life, will be accepted by God and given to Jesus for inclusion in His purposes in this world.
In other words, Jesus is saying that if someone wants to be chosen by God and given to Jesus, that person can simply believe in Jesus for eternal life. God will give such people to Jesus, and Jesus will lose none of them, but will raise all of them on the last day (John 6:40, 44).
Jesus teaches that a group of people are en route to a grand and glorious destination—resurrection to life everlasting. The Father has them in his care, and he has entrusted them to Jesus. They come to Jesus, and he will not turn them away.
Jesus assures his disciples that he will not lose any of these special ones; they will attain the resurrection. This is assured and even (pre)destined in the sense that God’s will has determined it all. But when we come to answer the question, Who is in this group? Jesus’ response is, “everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him” (John 6:40).
God gives to Jesus the company of believers. Jesus will never reject on who comes to him in faith. This is God’s will.
The Drawing of John 6:44
But what are we to make of the word “draw” in John 6:44?
We discussed this text earlier in a post about Total Depravity, but a few additional comments are appropriate here as well.
Calvinists often point to this text, and then make the comparison between it and passages like James 2:6 and Acts 16:19 which uses the same word for “dragging” or “compelling” people to go where they do not want to go. Some scholars also point out that the word is used in classical Greek to refer to drawing water from a well. They then point out that nobody can “woo” or “entice” water from a well; it has to be drawn up irresistibly (Sproul, Grace Unknown, 36).
Yet they fail to mention that the same word is used as well over in John 12:32 where Jesus says He will draw all men to Himself.
If the Calvinist really wants to say that the word “draw” means that God irresistibly drags all the elect into eternal life, then they must also say that all men are irresistibly dragged into eternal life, which would make the Calvinist a universalist as well.
So which definition is correct? Does God irresistibly drag, or does God woo and entice?
The truth is that context helps determine which type of drawing in in view. Kittel’s Theological Dictionary of the New Testament says this:
There is no thought here of force or magic. The term figuratively expresses the supernatural power of the love of God or Christ which goes out to all (12:32) but without which no one can come (John 6:44). The apparent contradiction shows that both the election and the universality of grace must be taken seriously; the compulsion is not automatic (Kittel, TDNT, 227).
Regarding the specific context of John 6, William Klein adds this insight:
Jesus issues an invitation in John 6:45 that clarifies the “drawing” of John 6:44. Everyone (pas) who listens and learns from God comes to Jesus. God’s drawing is not selective nor irresistible. The “drawing” stand right in their midst; in effect, Jesus is saying, “No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). The attraction, the reasons, arguments, and features are all there. The question is: will the Jews really listen and learn from God? (Klein, The New Chosen People, 143).
Conclusions about John 6
When everything is put together, John 6 clearly teaches that being elected or chosen by God is not an Unconditional Election by God in eternity past to eternal life. Rather, election is to service.
Furthermore, one condition to being chosen by Jesus was to have previously been a faithful servant of God. Only those who belonged to God in this way were then given by God to Jesus for continued service. Jesus had a special task to fulfill, and God gave Him helpers to aid in that task.
Have you ever studied these texts in John 6 or had discussions about them with others? What is your understanding? Do you have any additional insights to add to the ones above? Share in the comment section below!
If you want to read more about Calvinism, check out other posts in this blog series: Words of Calvinism and the Word of God.
The problem with Calvinism (not Calvin) is not that there is some truth in predestination (God is God after all) but that it makes predestination the starting point and framework of its theology. Its man of straw is Arminianism. The motive for this seems to me the somewhat obsessive idea that there is nothing we can do for our salvation which countered late mediaeval Catholicisms lots of things we must do. If we are chosen conditionally then there is nothing we have done to be saved. If we think like this we are forever in reaction against something else and it is no suprise that most anticatholic sentiment flows from (American?) Calvinists. The purposes of God are often a mystery and perhaps it is the blasphemy of Calvinism (sauce for the Gander) to claim to know these mysteries.
Yes, there is some truth to predestination and election. Hopefully this series can reveal some of what that truth is.
If God didn’t want us to use reason and logic then why does he say and Isaiah 1:18, come and let us reason together
Did you mean chosen “unconditionally” where you say conditionally?
This embodies my unexpressed understand…
When Calvinist fail to see John 6:45 and keep bragging on 6:44
Too simplistic. Throughout all of your blog posts you are viewing verses through the same paradigm lens that rejects outright any Calvinistic interpretation of a verse. For you, none of the verses that speak of selection or election can refer to salvation—all must be explained away as “calls to service, etc.”. This is the same thing (only the obverse) of what you accuse the Calvinists of doing. The argument follows classical lines, but it is still a “Reductio ad absurdum.”
As I have previously commented, God’s ways are not our ways, and they cannot be reduced to human logic. Many of the doctrines found in scripture do not lend themselves to a logical methodology—the Apostle Paul, who seems to have been classically trained, often speaks of certain doctrines as “mysteries,” not in the Gnostic idea of such, but as mysteries that are irreducible to logical constructs. God is infinite, we are finite.
I actually think that God ways are reasonable and logical. When Scripture says that God’s ways are not our ways, it doesn’t mean that God’s ways are illogical or unreasonable.
I agree that I have a paradigm through which I am reading these texts. The question for Bible students is to ask whether the Calvinistic paradigm is more reasonable than the one I am presenting here (or the one presented by others).
This is to Brad–The second paragraph is understandable, the first I get a little lost. But my question is this, isn’t God the epitome of logic? People who are attuned to His Word and their minds and eyes are open aren’t they expected to understand God’s logic? Wasn’t the whole purpose of the Bible for us to see life through God’s eyes–but you seem to say that it is beyond understanding? In Jeremy Myers explanation, there are those who want to believe in eternal life, without following Jesus, which are the disciples who left Him by saying “This is hard to understand. How can anybody accept this?” (John 6:60), which I believe they did that, because it was challenging their thinking and they had to sacrifice many of the ways that they like to think and live, so it was easy to just leave Jesus, but people who are attuned to God’s Holy Spirit to Jesus can actually embrace and zoom into God’s mind. It is like Calculus–Calculus is the epitome of logic and if one follows then another follows and it doesn’t contradict itself. Calculus is so pure in its logic that I feel like I am in a paradise of pure sense. However, people who do not have the Holy Spirit within them, constantly contradict themselves, and it is very hard to follow their thoughts. “For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, 8being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways” (James 1:8). Listening to them feels like it is a very bumpy ride of incoherent thought. I think the whole purpose of us even reading the Bible is for us to be able to distinguish from right and wrong, be single-minded, and for our hearts to be in sync with God. I don’t accept your statement saying that God is beyond understanding. There is a lot to Him, yes, and you will never understand Him in completion, but the Bible gives us whatever we need to be able to follow His righteous ways and be formed into His character.
Amen without the Holy Spirit a person trys to view God like reading a newspaper. He is divine we are mortal
I couldn’t write much as this topic, so I just had to comment on yours. You have explained what’s in my mind. Thank you for that. God bless you!
Why do we have to complicate things when they are presented to us in a simplistic way in the Bible? If God made it simple , why going around in circles and squares for the sake of complicated theology?
I agree with you that there are mysteries that are beyond our understanding, but I’m not convinced they are beyond or outside of logic. If something is illogical to us, it is illogical, period. This is not to say that there aren’t mysteries, but it is to say that we cannot ignore the obvious illogicality of something by calling it a mystery. I also agree that God’s ways are not our ways, but am not convinced that this allows him to operate outside of logic. Logic, like mathematics, was a truth discovered by man, not created by him.
Right! The appeal to mystery doesn’t help us understand God or Scripture.
True followers of God Wil understand a great deal of HIM but not all for God is and must be God_the only all-knowing.whoever wants to understand it all must struggle to follow JESUS up to the straight and narrow path.period.
yes, sorry!
At the time of the Reformation the most important theological issues were soteriological ones. As a consequence the reformers tended to read the Bible using soteriological spectacles. 2 Cor 5.21 is an example of this I believe. Paul is discussing his apostolic ministry when suddenly he apparently pops in a soteriological aside in verse 21 which has become the corner stone of double imputation and much beloved of John Piper. Righteousness is interpreted in a very narrow soteriological way (the righteousness we need to get to heaven). However in the Old testatment ‘righteousness of God’ means the saving/healing/love/faithfulness of God according to his covenant commitment. Paul is saying that the apostles have become a living breathing demonstation of the covenant commitment of God. There is an important missiological dimension that is missed by the double imputation interpretation.
Excellent point! I might have written about the soteriological emphasis of the Reformation in some of the introductory posts in this series. As we slowly move away from this, we are gaining different perspectives on what the Bible could mean for our lives today.
Hi Jeremy,
I agree with you that section of John 6 does not support unconditional election. However, I come to that conclusion in a different way then you do, which is as follows.
In light of the Biblical precedence of “man’s inherent ability to accept or reject God’s call/drawing, commands, instructions, promises and gifts”, I will give my interpretation of John 6:37-65. But first, the no-inherent-free-willers interpret these verses to indicate that the phrase (…”can come”…) in these two verses indicates that fallen man does not have inherent-free-will capacity to accept/believe the call/drawing/granting salvation message of God being given to them through Christ’s words (God’s words).
Because God is communicating to mankind through the Scriptures in the Bible in a style that reeks with an obvious understood implication that the hearer/reader, mankind, has the inherent ability to accept/believe or reject His call/drawing, commands, instructions, promises and gifts (some folk briefly refer to it as man’s inherent-free-will capacity), I let the concept of mankind having this inherent ability be the precedence; and I interpret difficult passages that can possibly be interpreted to appear contradictory to that precedence (of mankind having inherent-free-will) in light of mankind having inherent-free-will capacity.
So how do I interpret John 6:37 through John 6:65?
John 6:37 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out
John 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
John 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
John 6:65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
My interpretation is as follows: no person can come to Christ unless the Father who sent Christ draws him; and Christ will raise him up on the last day if they behold Christ and make a free will decision to believe in Him. Those in the crowd that make a free will decision to believe in Christ were taught by God through the words of Christ and learned from Christ’s words (God’s words) (which are spirit and life) were granted by God to come to Christ since they learned from Christ’s words (God’s words) and made a free will decision to believe His words; they are the ones given to Christ.
Interestingly, in John 6:44, if one assumes that the person (referred to as “no one”) DOES NOT HAVE the inherent ability to accept or reject God’s call/drawing, the verse implies that he WILL NOT be raised up in the last day if God does not draw him; and also, if one assumes the person (referred to as “no one”) DOES HAVE the inherent ability to accept or reject, he ALSO WILL NOT be raised up in the last day if God does not draw him. This line of reasoning would also apply to Jn 6:65 (“And He was saying, ‘For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.'”) In verse 65 it also does not make any difference WHETHER OR NOT a person has the inherent-free-will ability to accept or reject, the person can not come to Christ if God has not granted him to be called and drawn to Christ. Therefore, one could conclude that those two verses are not talking about the capability of man’s will to accept/believe, but about the fact that it is God that chooses, grants, teaches, calls and draws; and that is what God was doing through Christ speaking to this crowd of people — giving all of them in the crowd (Jn 3:16; 1 Jn 2:2; Jn 6:40) the opportunity to be taught by God (by Christ) to believe in Christ for salvation. However, He foreknew those in the crowd that He could not convince/persuade to believe in Him (Christ) {Jn 6:64 “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.}.
Mankind can not come to Christ if they do not know who the true God is and who the true savior is (Rom 10:13,14,17). Therefore, God has granted mankind to be given this knowledge by the drawing of the word of God that the Holy Spirit uses to also draw with.
I read the comment, but am not sure I fully understand your approach here. Can you summarize it in a sentence or two for me?
For david…Hey brother!!! Your ending logical analysis was absolutely wonderful and extremely crucial to really giving me a firmer foundation on interpreting what this passage could not mean! Absolutely wonderful!! God is truly faithful for I have been earnestly praying concerning this. This is not to say I did not appreciate the blog posting for I think it was also very enlightening. I favored your ending breakdown of why it doesn’t make sense for these verse to be dealing with the inherent free will ability to accept or reject the calling or drawing of Christ.
Jeremy I made a mistake on my last post I said that a Calvinist can still be saved even though he or she believes in Calvinism. This is only partly true I have met some that we one point, two point Calvinist that did not believe in works to save you but those points meant to keep you saved but most die hard Calvinist cannot be saved if they believe works or just by Gods choice to be saved
I see. Well, yes, if someone relies on their own works, then they are not believing in Jesus Christ alone, and hence, do not have eternal life.
I think, however, that many Calvinists were trained into Calvinism, and so even if this is what they believe now, they may not have always believed this….
It was a good article to think about.
Ricky
It is not the exactitude of our theology that saves us but the indwelling reality of the Holy Spirit which comes into us when we repent of our old life to follow Jesus through baptism.
Hi Jeremy,
First, I made and error in the second paragraph of my original comment. The corrected first paragraph is as follows:
Correction
*********
In light of the Biblical precedence of “man’s inherent ability to accept or reject God’s call/drawing, commands, instructions, promises and gifts”, I will give my interpretation of John 6:37-65. But first, the no-inherent-free-willers interpret the phrase (…”can come”…) in two verses (John 6:44,65) to indicate that fallen man does not have inherent-free-will capacity to accept/believe the call/drawing/granting salvation message of God being given to them through Christ’s words (God’s words).
Your Wrote:
<<<<<>>>>>
My Response:
************
Wow! I did not think that my comment was that incoherent. I thought that the first three paragraphs gave a good enough idea of how I was approaching my interpretation of that section of John chapter 6. Also, the contents of all of my comment, I thought, should be sufficient to reveal more of my biases involved in my interpreting process. Apparently, I was wrong about that. I am not academic or scholarly enough to give a scholarly or academic analysis of my interpreting methods.
In the third paragraph I, upfront, indicated my bias as to what I believe is the Biblical precedence which is that fallen mankind has the inherent-free-will capacity to accept or reject God’s call/drawing, commands, instructions, teachings, promises and gifts which biased my interpretation of John 6:25-71 — and my interpretation indicates that section of Scripture can be understood (interpreted) to be consistent with the precedence I mentioned. The Calvinists on the other hand have their particular bias, precedence, of man having no inherent-free-will capacity to accept or reject God’s call/drawing, commands, instructions, teachings, promises and gifts that they interpret John 6:25-71 with — which interpretation is consistent with their precedence and consistent with their ideas of unconditional election and irresistible grace. The Arminians have their particular bias, precedence, that initially fallen man did not have inherent-free-will capacity to accept or reject God’s call/drawing, commands, instructions, teachings, promises and gifts that they interpret John 6:25-71 with — which interpretation is consistent with their precedence and consistent with their idea of universal prevenient grace that gave all of fallen mankind a free will capacity (at some time after the fall) to accept or reject God’s call/drawing, commands, instructions, teachings, promises and gifts. To me, you appear to have a bias, precedence, of not having election be applicable to salvation to eternal life, but only to special service. To me, all this indicates that this section of John chapter 6 is pliable, and can’t be used as absolute proof of any of the precedences I list above (even my precedence).
By the way, I have read of a novel type of Arminian Prevenient Grace called “individualistic Prevenient Grace” which is applied to an individual when he or she first hears or reads the gospel message. This individualistic Prevenient Grace is God supernaturally transforming the individuals will/heart into a free will capable of accepting or rejecting Christ as their savior.
In the paragraph where I first assumed that the person (referred to as “no one”) in John 6:44, 65 DOES NOT HAVE the inherent ability to accept or reject God’s call/drawing and then, secondly, assumed that the person (referred to as “no one”) in John 6:44, 65 DOES HAVE the inherent ability to accept or reject God’s call/drawing is an interpretive approach that I find causes some Christians eyebrows to rise in surprise. I made the above two assumptions to help show why I DO NOT BELIEVE that the words “can come” in John 6:44, 65 are referring to an innate capacity of fallen mankind in those two verses; but are referring to God’s choice to draw (to grant to be drawn) only. I do not believe the drawing or granting refers to God performing a supernatural transformation of the unbelievers will/heart to give the person a believing will in Christ (Calvinism) or to give the person a free will capable of accepting or rejecting Christ (Arminianism).
It is very possible that a hermeneutically sound exegesis arrived to a different understanding of John 6:44 which eliminates the contradictions raised. In short, this three article series concludes that this passage is in reference to Old Testament Believers. This is a concept that both Calvin and Arminius did not consider. This link is for the second article but the links to the other two can be seen at the bottom of the page.
http://helpmewithbiblestudy.org/9Salvation/CallingOTBreadOfLifeChiasm.aspx
This is not an apologetic for either side; it is hoped that this post will contribute to the vital discussion of this difficult passage.
Jeremy I would just like to give you much thanks for taking the time for making this article. I knew there was being taken out of context, but you made it very simple. I appreciate you brother, GOD BLESS!!!
So I’m confused with all this . I have battled with doubts and fear for a long time now . I have come to Jesus and cried out for mercy . So does this mean He will turn some away if they are not chosen .? Even if they want to be saved if they are not chosen then it means ” to bad it’s not going to be “?
Man has a choice to make – they can accept the gift of salvation or not. If you believe that Jesus died for you and paid for your sins personally then you have eternal salvation. Salvation is a gift and not of works or anything else that we can do. All a person has to do is recognize that they are sinner and that they cannot save themselves and put their faith in Jesus to save them. Once you do that all of your sins are forgiven and your eternal destiny is sure.
John 6
43. Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
We are drawn to God through His word. Those who believe on Jesus are saved.
John 1
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 . There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Note that all men have the chance to believe because every man receives light.
Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God. The word of is the tool God uses to draw his people. We are spiritually dead until we are quickened by the word of God. Can anything dead respond on its own? No! It’s the action of God first. REMEMBER to believe is a work, This is why we must have the faith of Christ. We must read the whole bible not isolate a verse here and there. God is sovereign, He will love whom he will love and hate who he will hate. Malachi 1:1-2-3 We read where God declares Jacob I love, Esau I hate. If the concern is that on judgement day, there will be those who wanted to be saved but weren’t chosen, God answers that question in Romans 3:10-12 There is none righteous! We must read everything.
I have read through the comments here and I feel a bit overwhelmed by the technicalities and big words. I doubt if wounded and hurting people are helped by lectures in big words.
The leaders of Judaism had dozens if not hundreds of definitions about what was” work “ on the Sabbath Day and completely missed the point ( Jesus said so ) and here we are arguing about the definition of “ drawing “. Perhaps missing the point.
The context of Jesus words about “ drawing “ was when He declared Himself the “ Bread of Life “ an obvious reference to the Exodus and to God’s redemption of Israel. The point of Jesus words was all about redemption and God’s sustenance of life. His adversaries didn’t get it, because as Jesus said to them they had no heart for God. If they had a heart for God then God would “ draw” them to Jesus.
If we think about “ drawing “ in terms of the worlds power play i.e. manipulation and imposition then we are not listening to Jesus who said that His Kingdom is not of this world. The “ drawing” of the Kingdom of God is the power of love to life. We know that, because the scripture declares that God is love and that in Him there is life.
For those who worry about being included or excluded or worry about begging for mercy. I would urge them to look at the cross. Christ’s love displayed, and it draws you in love. You don’t need to beg, Jesus love is given on the cross willingly and remember Jesus said from the cross “ Father forgive them…. “ You see no one had to beg for that and no one was defined in or out. .
Thank you for that . ? I feel at times God rejects me . I’ve been struggling pretty bad with excepting God loves me and forgives me . I’ve said some horrible things to God in anger before .
Lets’ see what the Bible says about a person who believes the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).
We are blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ (Ephesians 1: 3)
Some of these blessing include:
Our sins are forgiven – Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14 and 2:13, Galatians 1:4
We have peace with God – Romans 5:1
We are accepted by God – Ephesians 1:6
We have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us – 2 Corinthians 5:21
We are a new creature in Christ – 2 Corinthians 5:17
We are baptized into the body of Christ – 1 Corinthians 12:13
We are indwelt with the Holy Spirit – 1 Corinthians 6:19
We are sealed with the Spirit – Ephesians 1:13
We are sealed with the Spirit unto the day of redemption – Ephesians 4:30
We are preserved in Christ – Jude 1
We will be confirmed to the end by Christ – 1 Corinthians 1:8
We are citizens of the household of God – Ephesians 2:19
We are in the kingdom of God’s Son – Colossians 1:13
We are complete in Christ – Colossians 2:9-10
Once a person is saved they can’t get any more or any less saved.
These truths about our relationship with God through Jesus Christ are based on the facts of scripture and have nothing to do with how we feel or perform.
We are in God’s grace for all eternity!
Thanks for the encouragement that helps .
Excellent reply, Craig!!
Craig, man is not capable of generating faith to believe in the gospel. Salvation is all God’s doing. Faith is the key. Only when He gives us that faith, will we believe in Christ Jesus–and inherit all those blessings that you cite, and yes, salvation is not feeling or performance-based. Rather it is based on His mercy.
You posted this message at 6:44 PM : ) I don’t think that was a coincidence.
“So I’m confused with all this . I have battled with doubts and fear for a long time now . I have come to Jesus and cried out for mercy . So does this mean He will turn some away if they are not chosen .? Even if they want to be saved if they are not chosen then it means ” to bad it’s not going to be “?
Reading posts such as this from CW is what really toasts my buns, to be polite, about Calvinism or any form of determinism. It is clear from scripture that God desires ALL to be saved! I’ve had Calvinists tell me point blank that making a decision to accept Christ is a “work”!
Great article! Very insightful.
This commentary has excellent arguments that may explain something that doesn’t appeal to human views of fairness, the teaching of predestined damnation by a just and loving God, but I didn’t see Romans chapter 9 addressed. Here Paul anticipates the very objection that causes such discussion, and so why did Paul address the very question? His answer is God’s sovereignty, and none of the arguments used, which amount to “interpretations”. Further on in the chapter, Paul mentions objects of wrath, prepared for destruction. This is in a “what if” context, but the fact remains that Paul anticipates and answers the objection. I struggled with it and rejected the so-called “Calvinism” at first, but gradually came to see that the Bible does seem to teach this, with sufficient references to the Church being chosen to conclude anything other than that salvation is totally of God, including who can come to Jesus for salvation. I find the argument about being “chosen” for service but not for salvation possible, but not compelling. Finishing up, my objection to unconditional election arose because I had accepted the common teaching of eternal fiery torment for every unbeliever. It didn’t appeal to me any more than unconditional election, but it was why I at first rejected Calvinism. Then after giving unconditional election a second and more Biblical look, I went through the musing s about how it could be true if all unbelievers go to eternal hellfire torment, and then I got hit with the realization that the New Testament teaches eternal torment for Satan and his followers, which I heartily endorse, but It teaches destruction for unbelievers. That’s no more comforting a prospect, to be annihilated never to exist again, but it takes God out of the arena of tyranny and sadism. Jesus said to fear Him Who can destroy both body and soul in hell. The lake of fire may be eternal torment for Satan and an agent of destruction for ordinary unbelievers. I find the arguments of some who reject unconditional election a bit confusing when it’s said that we all need prevenient grace, but God simply knows who will accept prevenient grace. I see no difference. Nevertheless, I appreciate the commentary here, and I don’t by any means reject it, but I’m saying I just don’t find it compelling. There’s a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to destruction. What I’m saying is that “Armenianism” and eternal torment go hand in hand, and I don’t find compelling Biblical support for either, yet “Calvinism” and eternal destruction go hand in hand, and I find plain Biblical support for both. Thank you for your service.
Nobody can address every issue in every article. I address Romans 9 and election in great detail elsewhere on my blog. Just use the search area at the bottom to find some pertinent posts.
Eric, your distinction between torment and destruction was interesting so I went looking to find verses to support.
Could you please post the verses that make the distinction. 🙂
Hello! I’m a Calvinist and thought I would weigh in.
So, I’ve tried taking the concept you laid out and applying it to these verses:
“All that the Father gives Me FOR SERVICE will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me FOR SERVICE I will by no means cast out” (John 6:37).
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me FOR SERVCE I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day” (John 6:39).
“No one can come to Me FOR SERVICE unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:44).
“And He said, ‘Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me FOR SERVICE unless it has been granted to him by My Father'” (John 6:65).
As I apply this principle to these verses I’m finding that it doesn’t make sense. In fact, it leads to some strange conclusions that it is only those that God has chosen to give Christ for service, and draws to Christ for service, who will not be cast out by Christ but will assuredly be raised up by Him on the last day!
Your summary statement after quoting these verses made the most sense: “As can be seen, several of these texts seem to pretty clearly state that God sovereignly chooses who will come to Jesus.”
When we try to categorize and explain away what is meant by these verses we do them (not to mention Christ!) a great injustice.
In verses 25-27, we see that these people had seen signs, including the miraculous feeding of the multitude, yet Jesus states clearly that they were only there because they had their bellies full, not because of the signs they had seen. After being told by Jesus to work for eternal “food” rather than temporal, in true Jewish fashion they ask him what works of God they need to do. His answer? BELIEVE! Of course, this is not good enough for them, so in verses 30-31 they ask for yet another sign, bringing up Moses’ work in the wilderness with the manna. After He directs them from Moses’ bread to the Father’s bread sent from heaven, in vs. 34 they say they want this bread. In verses 35-36, after explaining that He is the true bread from heaven, he chides them for having seeing but NOT BELIEVING! It is at this point- after telling them that they must believe but recognizing that they don’t- that He launches into verse 37: “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” Those given to the Father who come to Christ, are those who come by FAITH- saving faith in the Son of God.
The next two verses buttress His statement, by saying that He came to do the Father’s will, and the Father’s will is that none (of those mentioned in verse 37) would be lost and that they all would partake in the resurrection. Verse 40 further proves this and shows that the context is saving faith, “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
But, how do the Jews reply to this? By believing? No, but in verses 41-42 they begin to grumble and deny that He could be the bread of heaven- they know Him- He’s merely the son of Joseph and Mary after all!
But, Jesus does not miss a beat. He tells them to stop grumbling about this, reasoning in this way in verse 44: “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” They are upset at His claims of being the bread of life and he responds by saying that no one can come to Him unless drawn by the Father. That is a curiosity! No mention of service here, by the way, only a commentary on their unbelief.
In verse 45 He quotes scripture about being “taught of God” to prove His point, and continues in the next two verses, “Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.”
In verse 48 and following He affirms Himself as the bread from heaven, and also affirms that eternal life comes from only Him! In vs. 52 they become even more incensed at His comments about eating His flesh, and He goes on to make even stronger comments about the necessity of eating His flesh and drinking His blood! Interesting…He’s already exposed them as unbelievers, yet when they are angry at His words He speaks in even stronger terms. He’s not trying to “sugarcoat the message” in order to get them to believe. He tells it like it is, including Himself being the bread of life and the truth of the necessity of being chosen and drawn.
Vs. 60 continues the back-and-forth: they are offended at His statements, yet He does not back down. He speaks to them of His future ascension and the work of the Spirit, yet again exposes their unbelief. This brings us to 65, “And He said, Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.’” After all this grumbling and unbelief He continues to affirm that no one can come to Him unless drawn by God. It is after this that they left- those who had already been exposed as unbelievers who only ate of the physical loaves. They couldn’t “stomach” the Son being the bread of life. They were never believers, and being offended by the Word (remind us of a certain parable?) they left.
Jesus turns to the 12 asking if they will leave. Peter affirms his/their faith in Him, to which He responds in verse 70, “Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” Jesus knows that He chose Judas- yes, for a certain use- but that chosen for salvation in Christ.
This passage is not about service, but faith in Christ. That is the context. Please consider the text rather than divorcing certain texts from it and re-categorizing them. Can we say that other texts about election and predestination are merely to service? Can we say that man has the capacity to bring himself to God savingly but must be chosen for service? I’m sorry- I don’t think we can.
Judas was a devil and a thief. He NEVER loved or knew Christ in a saving way. He was not chosen for that. But, Judas did exactly WHAT HE WANTED TO DO. Until we realize that we are totally depraved sinners that hate God, are His enemies, and are under His condemnation and wrath in our natural states, election won’t make any sense.
I’m a Calvinist, but I wasn’t always. I don’t have all the answers. I don’t understand everything. But I know that we don’t need to redeem God, we only need to believe Him, and for that we must be chosen and drawn by the Father.
Thank you. Your response is totally clear.
It seems to me that this scripture is very clear that God chooses us and we don’t choose him. Mr. Myers has twisted the scripture to meet with his belief. There can be no good argument for man choosing Jesus without God calling us. Brother Malone is dead on target. However this is not in conflict with man coming to God of his free will. It is God calling man that gives him the desire to come to Jesus. God is in total control. He told Moses, I will have mercy on who I have mercy on. Amen!
Amen, brother. Finally. So good to have sound, congruent, biblical exegesis. To the praise of His glorious grace
Acts 2:21 Whosoever will call on the name of the Lord shall be saved . my comment is asking
..what is stopping anyone from believing this most important verse….is it God ? No , he after all gave it to us. So then if we call on him who elected us to do so ? Obviously it was God who gave us the answer. All credit must be given to God for election since he gave salvation to us. Don’t make this complicated.
Amen, brother. Finally. So good to have sound, congruent, biblical exegesis. To the praise of His glorious grace. Good job Jeremy Malone. I’m a Calvinist too.
Hello Jeremy,
I really did enjoy what you have to say within this article about John 6:44. It brings a new perspective to reading scripture and challenges me in my own beliefs (I hold to all 5 points of Calvinism).
I only ask to have the last two paragraphs of “Eternal Life and Being Chosen for Service” to be reexplained.
It seems to me that within this section of the article you actually prove that those who believe in
Christ and those who are chosen for service to Him are one group (the elect).
Could you please explain where I may be wrong in understanding you?
Thanks, Patrick
I have written some more on election in these articles:
https://redeeminggod.com/election-is-to-service/
https://redeeminggod.com/romans-9-election/
Maybe those will help a bit?
Interesting article, but there is a problem when you say John 6:37, 39, 44, and 65 don’t pertain to salvation, but discipleship; you forget the whole narrative that you are commenting on begins back in John 6:25, when people sought Jesus the next day after he fed the 5000. These people sought after Christ because they were basically gluttons (Jesus calls them out on it in 6:26-27). They then asked Jesus what they needed to do to do the works of God in 6:28. In 6:29 Jesus tells them the the work of God is this; that they believe on him (Jesus) whom he (God the Father) hath sent. Notice that their believing is a work of God. The people then asked for a sign, citing manna from the Old Testament (6:30-31), it is then that Jesus tells them about bread from heaven (6:32-33). The people ask for that bread (6:34) and Jesus says, “I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.” (6:35) This is when Jesus tells them they saw him and believed not. (6:36) Notice before you get to 6:37, Jesus talks about believing in Him (verses 29, 35, and 36-which says they didn’t believe). The narrative is clearly about believing in Jesus Christ. Then Christ goes directly to telling them that all that the Father gives Him shall come, and Christ would not cast out. (6:37) Why? Because Jesus came down to do the will of Him that sent Him, His Father. (6:38) And what is the Father’s will? That all He gives Christ, Christ will lose nothing, but shall raise it up again at the last day. (6:39) When the Father gives, what will happen? Again, it states the will of the Father that every one that sees the Son and believes on him, may have everlasting life and Christ will raise them up. (6:40) Notice the Father giving and the ones believing both result in being raised up. (6:39, 40) Notice the Father does the giving. (6:37, 39) Notice that they saw in verse 36, but didn’t believe. Why? Because the seeing and believing is due to the Father’s giving. Notice that those given will not be cast out or be lost by Jesus. (6:37, 39) All of this prompts the people to murmur about Christ being the bread of from heaven (that He mentioned in 6:32) and coming down from heaven (that He mentioned in 6:38) because they knew Christ’s earthly parents and didn’t get it. (6:41-42) Yet Jesus tells them not to murmur (6:43) and then says, “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
Notice in verse 44, no man can (is capable) of coming except the Father which sent Christ is drawn. This verse tells us again the Father sent Christ (just like 6:38-40). This verse tells us that the Father draws the person, lining up with the Father giving found in 6:37 and 39. This verse tells us those that are drawn by the Father will come, lining up with 6:37. And this verse tells us those that the Father draws, will be raised up, just like 6:39 and 40. And since the narrative begins with Jesus telling them the work of the Father is to believe (6:29) and whoever comes and believes in Christ will never hunger and thirst (6:35) because Jesus is the bread from heaven (6:32-33), the fact that the people Jesus is talking to don’t believe in 6:36 is clear it is talking about believing and not believing. Having everlasting life (6:40) or not. The discussion is about salvation.
Also, 6:45 quotes Isaiah 54:13, where the children of God will be taught of God. That is correct, because the Father teaches His children, this is sanctification. So everyone that hears and learns of the Father will come to Christ. But remember, this same coming is shown in verses 35 and 37 (due to the Father giving). Everything that pertains to coming and believing is due to the Father’s giving. And again, it isn’t discipleship, because in 6:46-48, Jesus again talks about no one seeing the Father, that whoever believes on Him has everlasting life, and goes right back talking about being the bread of life. To try to relegate a few verses in this narrative to discipleship does damage to the context of this part of the chapter.
I definitely agree this is speaking of salvation. Where we may differ is concerning the audience. His audience was the Jews, a group who for centuries the Father had constantly sent in prophets to testify of the messiah. As a group, God had hardened them so that seeing they would not perceive, and hearing they would not be understand. John 12 speaks on this and tells us exactly why they count not believe, unless God had mercy on some for the purpose of election – in other words God still revealed the truth to some for the purpose of works being carried out. See Roman’s 11 concerning the partial hardening of Israel. This was an off the cuff response due to being g at work but I’m definitely willing to elaborate and expound from my position a lot more if requested.
I have seen great theologians argue about these verses in question over and over. Why would God make it so hard to understand? Are only the intellectual to be saved, and are they? No. God made it simple to understand look at the thief on the cross. This disagreement goe’s around in a circle over and over. Is God’s love overlooked. Did God create some angels for good and some for evil? Satan made a choice. We are made in the image and likeness of God. He chooses and YES we choose. We were like Him in the garden and we choose to disobey God. Jonah chose to reject going to Nineveh but God chose that he will go. Did Jonahs decision cause god to be in-sovereign? NO! As long as God ALWAYS (which he doe’s) has the final say He is never NOT sovereign. This Calvinism thing all revolves around God’s sovereignty. Read about How John Calvin was an angry man who had sided with the authority at hand to kill many who rejected his belief. What about love thy enemies and pray for those who persecute you. He lived in the old testament of fire and death to all unbelievers. His God was an angry God not mine. The new testament of Jesus Christ rings out. Forgive them for they know not what they do. John Calvin sounds like ISIS. Believe his interpretation or be put to death. How sad. Remember the Jews were the CHOSEN people the Gentiles were not. So all Jews should not be lost and all Jews should go to Heaven. The Jews were chosen before the beginning of the creation of the world why did God lose some. I thought He can’t loose those given to Him. Scripture read incorrectly is the problem.
It is simple if one wants to leave it that way. Otherwise we go round in circles and squares.
Man is free to choose between good and bad, between marrying a woman or another (even another man 🙁 nowadays) , between hugging or punching somebody and can not choose to follow Christ or not?
It seems to me that the Calvinist theology is one of a double standard.
And yes, people were executed with the consent of Calvin. Michael Servetus is just one example.
Not a fan of Calvin at all!
In evaluating John 6, you have identified something that I rarely see dealt with enough. The idea that “the Call” and salvation are two different ideas. For instance, I have always felt the prodigal son takes on some very different meanings when we get away from ignoring the fact that both sons are children of the father in the parable. It seems pretty clear to me that most of the New Testament is written to people who are “post-salvation” and that much of Jesus’ teaching is the same (hence, parables in the first place).
I have not thought about that in terms of this particular set of scripture though, and I’m going to spend some time parsing through your post and praying about it. I would say though, in terms of the discussion in chat regarding illogicality, that in dealing with God I think we have to be careful of crying “paradox,” when sometimes things may just be beyond our comprehension. I can’t really agree that we can logic everything, or that our logic is not colored by bias or imperfect understanding. In that regard, I would point out that even when you connect mathematics to the actual physical universe, particularly on a non-earth-bound scale, that math gets pretty messy. Sometimes faith as a child means trust without clarity. C.f. God’s discussion with Job. Some might argue that a change of destiny is in itself a paradox.
As an aside, but along the same lines as the soteriology discussion, I would be interested in your thoughts on outer darkness.
Excellent article!
I have been trying to understand this for a few years. When I think I understand it all a new thought arises when I see another view. But this makes so much sense scripturally. God used OT people for his purposes and they were not Israelites nor believers in God. This has helped me a lot and gives me more insight for study. It’s an interesting and important topic, it’s just too difficult for me to see one way or another. This makes sense. Thanks. God bless.
Great post and good discussion. I would offer a it’d le perspective from a Catholic blog…
“ Even if some are given more grace than others, everyone is given sufficient grace to be saved. That is clear in Scripture, as Titus 2:11 tells us: “the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men ” If God did not give a man sufficient grace to be saved, then God would truly be unjust in condemning him. There is no mystery there at all.”
In general it seems we have a hard time reconciling what appear to be opposites- free will and predestination (or more accurately foreknowledge). Our little mortal minds that get caught up in concepts of time and deductive reasoning hit their circuit breakers rather than accepting that both are true.
Works and Grace likewise. God never contradicts Himself even when we can’t cognitively reconcile what appear to be opposites.
What about the part about “not being cast away”? Is a right interpretation to think everyone who will come to Christ in faith will not be cast away? what about those who feel they have committed the unpardonable sin. if they have and later come to Christ in faith, won’t they be cast away. How does that tally with the passage that says, he is able to save the utmost those who come to God through Christ because he lives to intercede for them. Should this promises be read with that exception?
There is a difference between foreknowledge and predestination. Those that turned away in John 6:66 were drawn, and made the decision to reject Jesus, 12 remained. He knows all things. He draws everyone who will open up their hearts. It is man’s decision what to do with the knowledge after it has been received.
I’m thankful for God’s whole process of how He loves us so. I clearly understand the whole Salvation story is God’s unconditional love for human beings. I know that God does as He chooses; but in studying the scriptures He never does anything outside of His grace and mercy to us. No; I’m still learning, because our Father is vast, deep, and high above our thoughts and thinking, That’s why I’m grateful for our Father’s Sovereignty, and God the Holy Spirit’ insight. I’m grateful for servants as yourselves who study and help believers’ on this faith journey. God bless you as you continue to help believers’ understand the Living Word of God.
I have been a Christian almost 50 years now and this is the best explanation of John 6 that I have ever read. Thank you for such a clear explanation of the doctrine of the elect.
Thank you for your well presented commentary.
I find it fascinating that people are looking to do everything they can to complicate theology to argue for predestination (for salvation) but can not see predestination for a service! Predestination is also NOT foreknowledge.
GOD is a GOD of rational (of meaning) and gave us a brain to understand as much as we need in order to be saved. Wether we choose to respond positively or not to the good news, it only confirms that we are made in the image of God. If the lost in hell were made for hell in the image of God, I can not see that image. My will and love for Jesus Christ are not chemical reactions, not preset actions, I am not a robot and I can see this daily when I choose to follow HIM. If I would let my body do whatever it wants, I would ruin it, and also my life, my family . I allowed sometimes that in the past and regretted and repented. But I am not repeating the same mistakes.
Although GOD is Sovereign, HE also made me responsible when HE allowed me to choose. Love would not possible without FREE WILL. The fact GOD allowed me to choose only makes me more grateful for the undeserved gift of Life through Jesus Christ!
Thanks for your article. I am having a bible study on these verses tonight and it has given me the answers to the queries of election. I do believe that most of what the Lord Jesus taught as well as the epistles has to do with service not salvation. The Calvinists who think they are the deepest of scholars contradict themselves nearly every time the preach etc.
Yes undoubtedly salvation is eternal and cannot be lost. So the many work passages that we read in scriptures refers to service and sanctification. I believe that SALVATION a gift refers to the new heavens and new earth. While works/ service/ sanctification refers to rewards to the Kingdom of God the millenium reign of the Lord Jesus Christ.
That is where according to 1 CORINTHIANS 3 we will suffer loss.
So the Parables relate to the Kingdom and not eternal salvation.
Thanks again and God bless.
My understanding of John 6:44-45 is that Jesus knew the Jews acknowledged the prophecy of their coming Messiah and directed their attention to Isaiah 54:13 to cause them to see that those who knew the prophecy and believed He was the fulfillment of that prophecy had heard God ,who sent Isaiah, and had learned from God. The Jews hearing and learning from prophecy caused them to be given to or drawn to Him
God apparently anticipated the various reactions to John 6:44, because in John 6:43 He said, “Do not grumble among yourselves.”
Hello,
I really enjoy reading this article and think about it while reading it. The question I have is – how do I know if I am chosen by Jesus ? Yes, I believe in Jesus, I believe in God but maybe my believes of faith is not good enough for God to chose me. How do I know if I am one of the chosen one by God?
The second and last question – do Calvinists celebrate Saturday or Sunday as the Holy day, as the day of rest?
I would really love to hear back from you
Thank you soo much and God Bless
Martina
Martina:
Thoughtful questions. I believe that your concern about being chosen by Jesus is all the evidence and reassurance you need that you are indeed chosen. The quantity of our faith isn’t what saves us. (See Matthew 17:20) We do not effect (cause) our salvation (Eph 2:8-10) Jesus saves us by HIS work on the cross. I think it would be impossible ask or be genuinely concerned about your first question unless you were chosen.
As for the second question, it really isn’t about whether one is Calvinist or not, but rather an issue of whether we believe that Jesus was the complete fulfillment of the Old Covenant of the Law. I don’t think the opposing theologies of Calvinism and Arminianism differ on that topic.
You’ve either ignored or totally missed what is written in John 6:64-65. “But some of you do not believe me” ( For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him)
That is what led Jesus to follow up with what is written in verse 65 which you have taken completely out of context: “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me”
That statement makes it very clear those who turned away were not truly called by God. They were unbelievers from the beginning. You assume just because they were physically and emotionally following Jesus that they were called by God and that is not true.
Think about what you are saying and the holes in your logic. They stopped following him because they were not truly called. It is so glaringly clear just by the words Jesus spoke. There is no argument there or room for such reasoning.
“Despite the risk of being accused of blasphemy for disagreeing with Spencer, there are two strong indications in this text that not all is as clear as the Calvinist would have us believe.
The first indication is in John 6:66 when some of those who were following Jesus did in fact turn away and stop following. If Jesus loses none of those who come to Him, how is it that some of those who came to Him stopped following Him?
God is a way of life sort of like a religion. Jesus is a way of life, he is showing you how to behave
Jesus CHOSE Judas to fulfill his role,
but perhaps he was not drawn by the
Father for SALVATION.
Your explanation of these texts in John 6 suggests to me a desperate attempt to stickhandle around Jesus’s clear teaching on election.
J.I. Packer famously said that “God loves all in some ways, and some in all ways.”
Respectfully, I suggest that you study Paul’s teaching on this topic in Romans 9, as well as his famous berakah (blessing) paragraph in Ephesians 1:3-14
you missed the point.
many came to Jesus but He did not entrust himself to them.
many want heaven but don’t want to follow Jesus.
the ones whom God has chosen to save are the only ones who have been “given the GIFT of faith” they will follow Jesus. they don’t listen to the voice of strangers. you can’t make the text say what you want. you will answer for that. just say what The Word says. God knows what He is doing even if we don’t.
it’s the spirit that Gives life.
This was very insightful and good post and I believe fundamental to know. Just as God used Pharaoh to show His power as the one true living God, He also used Judas in the accomplishment of Jesus victory through the cross. As mentioned ,”If you hear these sayings of mine and do them you will be like a wise man” and “faith if it does not have works is dead”. True worshipers of God will bear good fruit and depart from iniquity.
Thanks God
1 Corinthians 1:22-24 clearly does not teach tvat God calls all men. The context of John 12:32 also does not say “all men”… it just says “all”. So what is the “all”. Free willies, like yourself, can fathom that all is all people from different nations, not all individuals! Why you have to twist texts to make man responsible for his own salvation is beyond me! John 1:13 and Roman’s 9:16 make it clear that salvation is not through the will of men! Acts 13:48 shows us that God appointed men to eternal life, and that is the impetus for their belief! It is clear from 6:44 that Christ is not referencing all men, but only those that come to Him! Those are the ones that get raised up on the last day! And you can only gone to Him, if the Father draws you!