This guest post is by an anonymous person. Even though he is not ashamed of whom he is, he has chosen to remain anonymous to avoid embarrassing family members who are still evolving on these issues. This post was condensed from interviews with our anonymous poster.
This is Part 4 of 4 Blog Posts from this person. If you missed them, please also read Part 1: I Am Queer, Part 2: Don’t Hate Me for Being Queer, and Part 3: Queer Christians.
Whether you agree or disagree with what he says, please be gracious in how you respond.
An Open Letter to Christians from a Queer
Dear Christian,
If you want to claim the title “Christian,” then try to look and act like Jesus. If you have the idea that you should be looking for sin in anyone, look in the mirror, not at me or at anyone else.
Shunning me, quoting Bible verses to me, telling me what you think the Bible says (you’re usually wrong), telling me I’m disgusting and an abomination, telling my friends the same things and all the other unloving things you do and say to us has got to stop.
None of us think you look like Jesus, so if you plan to wear the name, then be who you say you are. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, help the poor, the orphans and the widows. Love your neighbors, and that includes all of us LGBTQ’s. Even if we frighten you or make you feel uncomfortable, love us. And not just with words. Show us you love us.
Get to know some addicts, some dealers, some hookers, some human traffickers. Sit down and talk to them. Find the homeless when it’s raining and sit with them. Eat with them. Learn to love all of these people just as they are. Don’t try to change them. If you think other people should change, then talk to Jesus. He’s the only one who can change them. I can’t change them. You can’t either.
When I was out there in this messy life, walking without Jesus, you did not love me. I wanted nothing to do with you or your religion. You did not come to me. But Jesus did. Jesus found me.
Get over yourself. Look like Jesus, or stop posing as one of his people.
If you ever decide to really look like Jesus and do the kind of things he did, we’ll notice. Word will get around. Don’t bother telling us. We won’t believe you. Show us. Show us your love. We will know you are a Christian by your love.
With love,
Your friend, a Queer
Do you have questions for me? Do you want to hear more of my story? Make sure you read the other three posts linked to above. If there is enough interest, we can do a Q&A in a future post.
I agree with what you said in this post. The way I am reading you are not practicing homosexuality. Is this because you are walking after the Spirit and denying youself daily. I do this everyday as an adulterer at heart. I have many adulterous thoughts throughout the day. I want to have less. I believe that through a relationship with Jesus He will help me to be able to walk in the Spirit more and more. I want to have sex with strange women and not my wife. But I hope and believe that Jesus is better. I believe it is not the way God intended for me to be. An adulterer that is. Or desiring multiple sex partners. The joy and relief I get from walking with God and the freedom from guilt and condemnation I sometimes experience are far greater than any pursuit of what I believe is my natural state. I prefer the supernatural myself. I would like it if I were never tempted by this again. But I believe the temptations will not cease in this life. I do believe that as I grow in relationship with Him my life will be more in tune with His. I do not hate you for being homosexual. Because I would be a hypocrite because of my beliefs.
I identify as Queer, not homosexual. See the first post for more on that. None of the labels quite fit me, but as I said in my first post, I am married to a woman and plan to stay married. I believe the Spirit guides me and has guided me to love my LGBTQ friends. That’s why I’m asking Christians to love them also, even if those Christians and LGBTQs don’t agree.
I guess my response to this letter would be to ask them to examine more closely how Jesus responded to those who claimed to be righteous yet boldly continued in their behavior contrary to God’s word with arrogance and the pride of self-righteousness. That would be a response to both sides, the queers who think they are holy because of their perceived persecution, and the haters who boldly sin and tout it as their crown of righteousness. The proper attitude in the presence of Jesus is humility.
There may be LGBTQs “who think they are holy because of their perceived persecution”, but I personally have never heard that or any similar sentiment expressed by any LGBTQ I know. We can all be humble in the presence of Jesus and translate that into love for one another.
I left a rather long comment on this post earlier today, but obviously, the editor decided to take it down. Not sure why. But I will say this. This “open letter” can be considered very condescending and judgmental. Given that the “anonymous” writer keeps harping on how he and his gay friends feel judged and talked down to by many Christians , it’s quite pathetic. Ending your letter with “get over yourself” speaks volumes about your underlying attitude toward Christians.
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.
Not sure where John gets off calling all believers sinners, but maybe it has to do with the fact that we all are. Jesus, Praise God His Son Jesus purifies us from all sin.
I don’t have the ability to delete anyone’s comment. I have no idea what happened to it. You are putting words in my mouth I never said. I did not say I or my friends ”feel judged and talked down to”. I am sorry you think I am pathetic, but once again you are inadvertently making my points for me.
The “get over yourself”, as is the entirety of this letter, is addressed not to all Christians, but only to those who direct unloving behavior toward other people, especially LGBTQ people. Refer back to where I explained that more fully in the first comment on the third post.
I know you don’t have the ability to delete posts – I was speaking of Jeremy. And the sentiment of all your posts is that you and your gay friends are victims of mean and cruel Christians. And that anyone who would do such things isn’t walking as Jesus. Maybe you didn’t use the word judgment or specifically say you were talked down to, but your overall message lends to that conclusion.
Asking Christians to accept your belief that certain sexual conduct is not sin is asking them to reject what God has said on the subject. Again, you need to go to scripture for the conflict within yourself regarding your sin. And again, you can expect people on a blog like this to want to inject their beliefs and also provide scripture to back up their points. You posit a debatable conclusion, you should not be shocked to get counter-points to that conclusion.
Otherwise, the next time you want to write on this subject, on this or any other “Christian” blog, be sure to remind everyone up front that you’re not looking for answers or debate or a debate on your beliefs, only confirmation that you have been heard.
By the way, I got over myself a long time ago, when I put on my new self – Jesus Christ. I expect that you did as well.
I love you brother.
Neil,
I did not delete any comments. I was out of town all week , and today is the first chance I had had to read through these comments.
The fact remains that you are still making a judgment statement no matter how pointed it is. The fact that you limit it to a smaller group justifies it as much as telling a gay that they are sinning against God, but isn’t blasting anyone who supports homosexuality, just those few that are practicing homosexuals. You are telling Christians to change, but do not want anyone telling you or the LGBT community to change. That sounds hypocritical to me because you are judging someone for judging others regardless of who it is. Why can’t you accept them the way they are? So you need to take heed to your own words. And that was a judgment statement too.And for the record, the “work of love” the WWJD mentality you use is incomplete. The Bible says to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. We get the strength part down pretty good. Works, works, works, Feed the poor, etc. We get the heart and soul with our feelings. Love is an emotion too. We aren’t robots. But to love with the mind is where your problem lies. When Paul prays for the Philippians, he gives the specifics of that prayer. And the intended outcome of those prayers is the fruit of righteousness. But within the prayer is that he prays for them to grow in wisdom. It is just called love. He says, “And this I pray, that your love may abound more and more in real knowledge and discernment. This knowledge and discernment is what is called biblical wisdom. Read Proverbs 8:8-12. It describes wisdom which is synonymous with the cognitive aspect of love that Paul talks about. What does biblical wisdom look like? Read proverbs? The question really is not WWJD, rather, What Would Jesus Think? Whatever it is, it has to develop righteousness. And what you are proclaiming is not developing righteousness. A true believer has the knowledge to know where we came from and where we are going. And we know where the sinner is going who steps into a Christ-less eternity. It is through this wisdom that motivates believers to share the good news that Jesus Christ came to save sinners, including homosexuals from their sin if only they apply the finished work of Jesus Christ to their lives. They have to trust Him to save them from their sins just like any Christian does. That means you have to recognize that what you are doing is sin.
Not to change the subject. however r we to also love the terrorist , the child molester , the murders and all who do such acts. MMMM i have no idea .. All i know is that i love my Lord God Almighty with all my heart soul and being. My lord picks me up and carriers my burden, My Lord is gentle and humble in heart. Lets not focus on what he or she does, doing, did. Lets turn ourselves inwards and go to a place that inside of us all the space that is space the in between the place of our Lord and our saving God, the Holy Temple of Temples. for i have heard of a saying split a piece of wood and there I Am lift a stone and u will find Me the kingdom of God is not made up of bricks and mortar the Kingdom of God is within you. I geuss what I am trying to say here is we have the gift of free choice do with it what you wil,l you need noone to tell you anything the answers you seek are within you. Abundance Peace and rest for your weary Souls.. Sholam and God Bless my Friends. May your days be blessed and you sleep in the arms Of Our Lord..
Neighbor includes everyone, child molesters, terrorists and gay people. I think that God puts the people we have the most trouble loving in front of us. We have an opportunity to do what we choose with that circumstance. We can follow Jesus’ command to love those people, or we can choose not to love them. Love is a win for everyone. Not loving is a loss for everyone, especially us if we’re the ones choosing not to love.
Amen to that. If loving the sinner in spite of the sin were not a pillar of the Faith I would be _cre_ed!! I was convinced for most of 50 years of my life that I could never be forgiven and loved by anyone much less God!
This does not mean that I ignore the heinous deeds done by people to others. In this culture/country we have a set of principles that empowers duly authorized agents to apprehend, present the alleged perpetrator for fair and speedy trial, with representation and a verdict rendered by a jury of peers. If convicted, the person is sentenced according to guidelines determined by legislation.
The point I am clumsily trying to make here is that, I can separate myself from the reprehensible behavior of the perpetrator and prayerfully, humbly and earnestly try to follow the Lord’s example when on the cross he prayed Adoni!! “אבא, סלח להם, שלהם לא יודעים Father forgive them, they know not what they do.
Therefore, IAQ I can’t agree more!! Hate never built, did or created anything worth anything.
I try to love people and not figure out what their sin is. I really don’t know anyway. Only God knows that.
Sad how bitter the letter writer is; telling Christians to be loving in a demeaning way. The writer comes off as very self-centered instead of God-centered. The writer also seems to pull the classic: Let’s get the focus off of my sin and let’s focus on all of your sin and somehow that justifies my sin before God. Really sad.
Bitter – no. Demeaning: – No. Self-centered – No one who knows me, which you do not, has ever said that. I was not talking about anyone’s sin or justifying anyone’s sin. Either you didn’t read these posts and the comments or you’re reading a lot into them that is not there so that you may lash out at me. I will not lash back at you in kind by engaging in name calling. You are unintentionally demonstrating exactly what I am talking about.
Hey man, good series of posts this week. Don’t know Jeremy but good of him to open up his blog for you. There’s still a lot to do if this last post and its call to genuineness can be taken as negative as some of those commenting have. Thought when Jesus was here he spent more time with those who were down and brought them hope of something better. He seemed like the best way to be human. Not sure why Christians can’t be one together behind the Jesus they each claim. . . think they would be stronger that way, and better. But somehow in the all the infighting what Jesus looks like gets lost for those of us watching and hoping for the something better.
Glad to have read you this week IAQ, thanks. Want to give a shout out to Brandon Chase, a straight Christian guy who’s the real deal. We met thru his blog Zoe Perissos during this week and he has good things to say worth reading.
Thank you Brother. Again, you bless me.
Told you that if I had anything to add to the conversation, I would. . . can’t think of anything better to add to this conversation than you. Thanks are yours man, for being you. . . you make this journey better.
Thank you friend. We’re not there yet. Jesus gets lost, but the arguing and debates continue. I mentioned it elsewhere, but will say it again here. Brandon has a great blog. The link to it can be found in the first comment on the first post in this four part series. I also mentioned that if you want to continue the conversation, NoName, either Brandon or Jeremy will give you my contact info.
Thanks IAQ and your friend/co-author for everything this week. Subscribed to Brandon’s blog and glad he has the info to reach you.
Hi. I am what I call myself a believer. Personally I do not call myself a Christian and would not. I have done in the past but consider this to be egotistically incorrect. With regards to judgement, I was not sent to planet earth to judge anyone. Yes the scriptures have a bit to say about judgement and who is the judge. Clinically looking at the situation though as a human being there is a difficulty with the propagation of homosexuality. Going forth to multiply would be difficult. Though in todays scientific world this could be overcome. Speaking on the actual act of homosexuality and its practices I think is fairly straight forward. Friends can have extremely deeply held emotions towards one another. This is a very positive trait in any decent human being. And it can be seen most often in the homosexual individual. A loyalty is often their trait. I maybe might be wrong in this. But it’s my small experience talking. With regards to the sex involved. My goodness. Men and woman can fall deeply sexualky in love with their hands. Or other items of equally arousing status. So put down the stones y,all. There is a lot of science and statistics in loving the rearing of children in this issue also. Which needs to be examined and read. As Jeremy often states. God wants the best for his children, and indeed for his children’s children, and the generations thereof. I would gave reservations about promoting homosexuality, or whatever one wants to call it. But I would have reservations about promoting many other things as well. It is a deviation from the norm scientifically speaking. But it’s source is not fully understood. I am a hetrasexual married man. Have I had images or thoughts about homosexuality. Yes. But in my own personal case it’s been more about curiosity, sexual arousal and deviance from my own personal norm. And personally I would avoid it for my own good. I am not trying to be offensive by what I am about to say but it seems to sit with me as trying to put a square peg into a round hole. I really mean no offense by that. Seriously. The people who chastise the lgb community do so I believe through their own fears and insecuritys. And by example from other wolves in the false confessions of nominal Christianity. Nominal funny enough denotes normal. And by this I mean people who are born Christians, brought up as Christians, and who propogate a false Christianity based on a sub standard of norms! God loves all. And jesus is the proof. Even me! Yes. Even me.
IAQ, Jeremy linked to these posts in a current post and I was revisiting. . . and exchanged messages with Sam over at Brandon’s recently. Man, didn’t mean to go silent. . . email program cleared out the folder l’d put the emails in and didn’t have your email. Know it sounds lame. Not sure if you’ll see this but journey’s good. . . following Jesus thru the boulders. Things opened up after our conversations. Hope life’s good for you and the people you care about.
Heavy article.
I do understand why some react as they do. Why because I feel what they feel when I read your posts. I feel afraid, scared and hurt. The easiest thing to do is attack and kill what your scared of or hurt by, or you run away from it.
Or embrace your fear and go trough the fire of course not alone but with the lord Jesus Christ.
Also I sin, I sin a lot I think, but being gay is not a sin, acting out the sexual behavior is, or at least I think it is according to some bible texts. Does it mean I must not love the sinner and we all are these. We must love, but even that is hard for us. Or at least for me it is hard.
I don’t like the way a lot of people behave. Don’t know how to respond to their behavior. Love?
To bad English is not my first language would love to say a lot more but for now don’t exactly know how to. Any way I would like to give you a hug anonymous friend and maybe cry with you a little because of your hurt. Because that is what I feel from you trough all your posts.
If you are reacting to others with love, you don’t need to be scared, hurt or run away. This is a tough topic for some who have significant difficulties loving LGBTQ people.
If I did not love you I would be acting contrary to what the Lord taught. If I disagree with you it is not hate, similarly if I agree with you it is not love. You have a very secular idea of what a christian is. I have led a very sinful life that has included many despicable acts. I found that as Christians tried to share the Gospel with me, I, not them was being judgmental because they would not accept me as I was. This very statement is the epitome of pride, arrogance, boastfulness and unthankfulness. The fact that they were sharing the Gospel meant that they were where I was at. God gives us many opportunities to come to knowledge of His Son. He also uses various manners on how His Will is going to be accomplished. I am sure that when you read the bible you ask the Lord to show you His will in your life, to have the Spirit guide you into the truth and that truth revealed to you through His Son Jesus. No, (to answer any lingering doubts) Jesus never instructed sinners to continue in sin, when He healed the leper he told Him to present himself to the high priest and do the required sacrifice, He told the adulteress not to sin anymore, He constantly told them to repent. If you have not repented then you are in error (in spite of all your accusations) If you have repented and have called upon the Almighty God to save you and cleanse you from your sin, Then what is the purpose of these letters (unless you want to pass judgment on those that do not believe like you). Yes, I agree we need to be more mindful of people and their conditions and yes we need more compassion, grace and mercy when we preach the Gospel (because we are told to proclaim the good news) If you are not preaching the Gospel of Repentance, Mercy and Grace through the work of Jesus on the cross, then you (not anybody else) are demonstrating hatred to those you profess to love. On a more personal note I know (personally) murderers, wife and child beaters, adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals/lesbians, robbers, liars, cheaters, drug users, idolators, false teachers etc. and have not once agreed with their choice of death instead I offer a new choice of Life because the gospel compels me to Because of the new Life that is in me. Lastly, you may need to come to grips with the book of Romans (not because I said so) because there is a lesson for you there.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of
God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to
the Greek.
17 For therein is the
righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just
shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath
of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of
men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is
manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation
of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God,
they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in
their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became
fools,
23 And changed the glory of
the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds,
and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts
of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into
a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is
blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this
cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the
natural use into that which is against nature:
27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,
burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is
unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was
meet.
28 And even as they did not
like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate
mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness,
fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder,
debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors
of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural
affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such
things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that
do them. Romans 1:16-32 (KJV)
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that
judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou
that judgest doest the same things.
2
But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth
against them which commit such things.
3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such
things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his
goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God
leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But
after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against
the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his
deeds:
7 To them who by patient
continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal
life:
8 But unto them that are
contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation
and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish,
upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the
Gentile; Romans 2:1-9 (KJV)
Mark I do accept people as they are. The purpose of these posts is asking Christians to love others, including and especially LGBTQs. I have a Bible and read it regularly, so you
only need to give me the reference and I can look it up.
My wife and I and our friend work with the homeless. Many of them are drug addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill and more. We’ve learned there’s little point in discussing showing love to those people with most of the Christians we know. We get lectured on how those people need to stop their sinful lifestyles, clean up and get a job. Oh that it were so simple! Those comments tell me that the people saying such things don’t really know any homeless people. Of course they can’t love people they don’t know.
Some of the comments on these posts have reminded me of the comments we get about the homeless. Of course we can’t love people we don’t know. We think they just need to change and get with the program (our program) and that will fix everything.
Oh my goodness! I read “Get to know gay people and love them” in these posts. It seems that a lot of the comments say “Gays are sinners, but how dare you call me a sinner”. I reread the posts looking for where Q called anyone a sinner and couldn’t find it.
I read these posts as a request to love gay people. However, with a couple of exceptions, no one was interested in discussing loving gays except to tell gay people they’re sinners. We have lots of gay friends. They’ve all heard that many times, and none of them think it is done in love.
There are definitely ways to engage with LGBTQs. We regularly have them ask us questions about God, Jesus, sin, salvation, church and so on. They listen to and respect what we have to say, AND they not only listen, but they also want to discuss these things. I’ve considered sharing how that all comes about online, but have not done so and will not do so in the future because I know some people will want to turn it into a big argument. That is not going to happen.
Loving LGBTQ people was the idea behind these posts. Thank you for doing that. If they’re asking you the questions and initiating the discussions, you’re on to something. Too bad you can’t share that, but I also understand that you don’t want it to turn into an argument.
I am a 67 year old heterosexual male. These are the various “afflictions”, states of “sin” (according to those who purported to know and just all around personality quirks I have lived through and am in some cases still living with. Before I enumerate them let me make it clear that today I despise the practice of dehumanizing an individual or group of people by labeling them….IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR MANNER!!
I was a drunk until I became an alcoholic, exactly how, where and when the transformation took place I do not know. I haven’t had a drink in more than 41 years and consider myself recovered. Not because of the elapsed time but rather due to finding the root causes and conditions of my alcohol addiction and getting help and treatment for the resulting diagnosed mental illness after 40 years of sobriety/abstinence!
So alcoholism and the following process of recovery morphed into the “dreaded; Mentally Ill”
That diagnosis led to more labels: PTSD, Bipolar,etc. During, but not because of the process, I responded to the “call” and have been trying to live as the triune God has made available to me.
So I don’t LABEL myself Christian, just as I am NOT alcoholic or mentally ill or “Native” American (another convenient label that dehumanizes} or military veteran.
I am a man! God’s child.
I am learning, albeit slowly (glacial) to view every other one of God’s children as just that….God’s child….JUST LIKE ME!!
My entire life so far has been a LEARNING experience. I have failed miserably many times and been wildly successful as well It all is summed up in these words of our Lord (humbly paraphrased) Love one another as I Love you. Deal with the log in my eye before I mention the mote in yours.
Even A.A. struggled with what we label today as the LGBTQ people. And finally, Thank God, came to their senses and adopted the admonition “Live and Let Live.”
I will not disrespect the courageous blogger who opened himself to this forum by saying “I have many friends who… ” Because, honestly I have been a persecutor. I humbly ask your forgiveness and I am using the lesson’s taught by our Lord to shape myself, not the people around me.
I have judged many for many years very harshly and have come to the Faith by the Grace of God and very humbled by what is given to me freely…You my Friends!
May the Peace of our Lord, the Love of God and the Communion of the Holy Spirit be with All.
Thank you for sharing your story. I don’t like the labels either. They rarely tell us who a person is, but often allow us to disregard or as you say “dehumanize” others. Unfortunately that is how we’ve been taught to think about people.
I will take your overall theme to heart. We need to be constantly aware of our interactions with others as professing Christians. I have done all those things you ask, except chat with human traffickers, since I don’t know any and if I did … love, patience, tolerance and acceptance might be the last things they would see from me. I live in a small town. I attend a relatively small, loving church. I have had experiences where I see someone and have the feeling I may have shown my ass on a bad day where they are concerned, at their job or office, for instance.
So, from all I’ve gleaned, you are married to a woman, upset that you couldn’t marry a man? You think of men sexually, but don’t act on it? You march for equality, then are surprised when you get push back from counter-protesters – who ALL are Christians as far as you’re concerned?
You never mentioned any “queer” radicals that have attempted to disrupt church services, or even attendance? Their DEMANDS to be married in churches that don’t see things ‘your’ way? Sue Christian businesses (and soon churches?) into bankruptcy that refuse to service them rather than just move on and find one that will, or take the referral that’s usually offered? You want to see criminal prosecutions for performing “HATE” crimes for churches that won’t marry Adam & Steve ?!
Do your promote the convoluted concepts of “sexual identity” so children can wander into the bathroom of her choice in school or the bus terminal? Self imposed sexual mutilation is somehow to be taken as just another “choice”? Then some publicly declare, “Oops!”
I know this, we are as sick as our secrets. I also am convinced that as long as we continue to rationalize/justify our sins (simply falling short of God’s best for us), we will not know serenity nor peace of mind. You have done a most artful job of setting up and slaying the strawmen. However you see yourself, know that if whatever one “desires” goes against the laws of nature, they may never know true soul satisfaction. I hurt for and with them in that awful truth.
Yes, we all need to be patient, tolerant, loving, kind. I also pray for discernment. I am not obligated to embrace/accept anyone’s sin, no matter what form it might take. That is my responsibility. Don’t hate me for that.
I did not say I was upset I couldn’t marry a man. I have not marched for equality. We’re talking Christians loving neighbors here. Your third, fourth and fifth paragraphs are off-topic. Are those things really happening in your small town?
None of this is about embracing anyone’s sin. None of this is about reminding anyone of anyone’s bedroom habits. Did you not read the Jeremy’s request at the top of the page to be gracious? You have more than crossed the line, and in doing so have unintentionally proven the points I made about the unloving ways some Christians treat LGBTQs. I will not respond to further comments from you.
YOUR quote Pt1: “The day the state I grew up in made it legal to marry someone of the same gender, I cried. If that had happened before I got married, I wonder if I might have married one of my boyfriends instead of one of my girlfriends.”
Pt 3: “When I march with my friends, Christians scream at us and tell us we are going to hell. When we try to attend church, Christians (mis)quote
Bible verses to us, don’t accept us, hope we’ll stay away. When Christian coworkers learn of our sexual orientation, they try to get us fired from our jobs, spread lies about us, and usually hate us.”
May you find some peace and grace on your journey here on God’s great, big blue marble.
This was a good reply and and good discernment. You quite rightly pointed out his points of view which he had just denied followed by cutting you off from further discussion. I can hear the echo of someone who has an interest in philosophy. A Jordan Peterson fan perhaps?
Fellow lobster?
Thank you for sharing with us and in generating some much needed openness and discussion within the ‘church’.
It was only after I had left the confines of the institution, that I began the process of thinking for myself as a Christian and was able to begin to consider life outside the box.
I believe this is what Jesus wants from His own body; to love completely and outrageously as He does, with no limits; no boundaries; no walls; no one left out; no exceptions.
We can argue and discuss all we want the theological details, but in the end, His over riding commandment to us is to Love one another as He does.
This is a good place and time, to continue and expand that dialogue.
When we stand before Him, what will He truly be concerned about?
He died on the cross for us, all of us, to pay the price we could not pay. That act, was once for all, completely and utterly unconditional.
Brother, I am probably geographically, on a different part of the planet. But, spiritually, I am next door!
I hope and pray, that one day, we will have no need to communicate perceived differences, but all of us will dance together in His joy.
Cheers mate, have a great Christmas, and the same to all.
That should be ‘Ian’…… (note to self: Adjust the auto punctuation settings!).
Thank you for understanding what we’re really talking about here: “I believe this is what Jesus wants from His own body; to love completely
and outrageously as He does, with no limits; no boundaries; no walls;
no one left out; no exceptions.
We can argue and discuss all we want
the theological details, but in the end, His over riding commandment to
us is to Love one another as He does.”
Hello,
I think there are some valid points being made on both sides of the discussion, although there seems also to be a rather ungracious, unforgiving tone. I just wanted to point out a couple of things to the writer of the letter.
The writer writes “If you have the idea that you should be looking for sin in anyone, look in the mirror, not at me or anyone else.”
However, the Bible says,
“I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people – not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler – not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. ‘Purge the evil person from among you.’ ”
1 Corinthians 4:9-13
So while it doesn’t make sense to judge any NON-BELIEVER (“of this world”) who is LGBTQ, it correspondingly doesn’t make biblical sense to NOT judge someone who calls himself a Christian (who “bears the name of brother”) and is unrepentant of their sexual immorality. If they are repentant and wanting to be transformed and redeemed, then praise God! If, however, they are not repentant, it is not “loving” to tell them that they don’t need to be repentant and yet can be saved. That is simply a lie and will certainly not seem loving on the day of judgement.
Furthermore, I don’t understand who’s writing the letter. If the writer is a non-believer, I would say that Jesus loves him and I will try to love him. I would also tell him that Jesus died for his sins and wants to redeem him. I really don’t have much else to say.
If the writer of the letter claims to be a Christian, however (and it seems that he does), all I see is a Christian who is unrepentant and selfish. Further, the writer doesn’t seem to realize that he is being hypocritical by judging those who judge him, rather than loving those who judge him.
Yes, the Bible does say to love your neighbors. And for you, writer, that means to love those who judge you unfairly. It means to love those who are ignorant and uncomfortable around you. It means to love those who hate you, even those who are your enemies.
Jesus is perfect. We are not. So even in the church (sometimes especially in the church), we’re going to be dealing with people who sin (especially if your church is a church that preaches the gospel and makes disciples, because then you’re always going to have at least a few newly converted, immature Christians). And if we demand a standard of unforgiving perfection, then we better be ready to have that standard put on us as well (Matt. 7:1-5).
If the writer wrote, “I know you hate me and feel uncomfortable around me, but I love you anyway because of how much undeserved love I’ve found in Christ,” that would be much more Christian than, “Let me tell you all the ways you annoy me and everything you’re doing wrong.” (I know I’m paraphrasing, but that is really the only way anyone will take this) That’s just, ironically, hypocritical.
Personally, I have homosexual friends, both who call themselves Christians and those who don’t know Jesus. To those who don’t know Jesus, all I can say is that I love them and will continue to share the gospel with them. To those who do know Jesus and are unrepentant for their sin, all I can say is that they should examine their own hearts as to whether or not they’re saved (as 1 John 1:6-10 points out). To those who are saved and repentant, all I can is that I will do my best to walk with them through their struggle.
To you, writer, I just want to say that I’m sorry for what you’ve been through, I’m happy for you that you’ve found Christ, and I hope His gracious love will help you to find humble confession for your mistakes, forgiveness for those who have wronged you, and freedom from your bitterness and anger.
“In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.”
1 John 4:9-12
These posts talk about sexual identity, not sexual relationships. A person’s sexual identity is not a sin, sinful or immoral. I am not bitter or angry. I am asking those who self identify as Christians to examine themselves, not other people. Judging others, whomever you think those others should be, is a risky business, since you do it with your prejudices in hand, but not all of the evidence. As my friend says “Judging others is a fool’s errand. It usually does not end well.”
Christians often make many assumptions about LGBTQs, much of which is inaccurate at best. If you have not been on our end of the equation, you have not experienced the anger, bitterness, unkindness, false assumptions and a long list of other things that regularly come our way from some Christians.
If we respond and say “Stop it! If you claim to be Christians, then look and act like Jesus. Love other people, even if they make you uncomfortable”, then we’re unkind, unloving, bitter, angry, selfish, immoral, unrepentant and hypocritical. You used all of those terms in describing me. Do you always call into question the salvation of those with whom you disagree?
Do you understand that comes across to us as more of the same?
Everyone on this post , if christian should be identifying with Christ Jesus not a group of people committing a certain set of sins which are all reprehensible to God. Separate yourselves from among them . Only God can handle our sins. So it seems they need to be placed in the closet , at the very least. Sin is ugly and of the devil. Certainly it is not to be glorified , only denied . On the issue of judgement, Gods word does the judgement and if we don’t want to know what that is we need to not approach scripture. Sin separates us from God and all things Godly. Shalom
!!!
Hey! Aren’t we all sinners? Wasn’t Jesus a friend of sinners? If you try to separate yourself from all sin and all sinners, you hand better lock yourself in your room and never go out… but wait… then you’ll still be in there with yourself, and you commit sins too! Aaagh!
With regard to your friend’s saying, I’m not sure who your friend is or what gives him/her authority that I should take his/her saying as truth, but I’m not quoting my friend or myself. I’m quoting God’s word. If you disagree with 1 Corinthians 5, of course, that’s your prerogative.
I’m not calling anyone’s salvation into question. I’m asking people to call their own salvation into question because that’s what the Bible says. (e.g.1 John and Phil 2:12). Romans 2:4 gives us insight into this matter as well (“Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?”)
Look, I’m a sinner. No more or less a sinner than any member of the LGBTQ community. I can freely confess that I am a sinner because my identity today is primarily in Christ’s forgiveness, not in my sin. But sin, judgment and repentance are all part of the gospel and cannot be skipped over on the way to “love”. I put love in quotes, because speaking of sin, judgment and repentance are in truth, a part of love. Every forgiven sinner knows and acknowledges that.
With regard to your last paragraph, I’m still trying to understand how you identify yourself. Do you consider yourself primarily a forgiven child of God, or primarily a member of the LGBTQ community? Truth is, you can’t primarily be both. While LBGTQ can be part of your identity, if you’re really a Christian, then child of God must be your primary identity and the church, your primary community. And if that’s the case, it’s not the failure of everyone in the church except you; it’s simply the failure of us all. It just seems to me that your letter was very “you all are sinners” and not very “we all are sinners.”
I’m not quite sure who your letter was directed at either. If you’re talking about Westbro Baptist church, then I completely agree. But they’re incredibly ignorant and I doubt at all a part of this conversation.
I’m not trying to minimize your plight and I apologize if I’ve done that. But one of the fundamental parts of the gospel is that we understand that we’re all sinners. I never attacked you for being LBGTQ at all and I never wanted my response to come off as an attack in the first place. It was your tone of self-righteousness in your letter that I was trying to point out.
In any case, I just wanted to add to the discussion. Thanks for your input and your original letter. While I disagree with parts of it, I appreciate your honesty.
Which part of 1 Corinthians 5 were you referring to? 1 Corinthians 5 lists all sorts of sins which most Christians completely ignore.
I’ve continued thinking about this series of posts since they went up. While we need not agree with or accept the beliefs or values of others, as Christians it is incumbent on us to love and accept others, regardless of what they believe or do. Otherwise we must invent an explanation of Jesus’ command to “love your neighbors as yourselves” that does not resemble Jesus.
Our culture has been watching and continues to watch the church at large on the issue of how the church is handling “the gay issue”. So far, according to numerous opinion surveys, the culture thinks much of the church has done a poor job with this issue.
When the majority of the culture decides that LGBTQs have been denied rights, treated poorly, bullied and so on (I think that time is at hand, whether or not we agree with the opinion of the culture), where will the blame fall? I think it will land squarely in the lap of religion, the church especially. Rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly, that is where it is landing, just as the blame for Tyler Clementi’s suicide, rightly or wrongly, landed squarely in the lap of his roommate and his roommate’s female friend.
Will the culture turn against the church, in part because of this issue? I think a lot of it will. Will this decimate our ranks? It certainly has the ability to noticeably thin the ranks within a generation.
Is it possible to do something about this? We could do as IAQ suggests and learn to love LGBTQs. Or we can continue “business as usual” and watch churches close by the thousands, as seems to be what lies in our not too distant future.
“If you want to claim the title ‘Christian,’ then try to look and act like Jesus.”
What this person fails to understand that the Christian faith is not comprised of individuals who ignore each other. Christianity is practiced in community where we not only commend each other where it is deserved, but rebuke and correct each other when it is necessary, all to be done, of course, in love and concern. That is the Biblical practice of the Christian faith. That’s not to deny we are to look to ourselves, and do so before we look to others. It is to deny that we are to be quiet and accepting of another’s willful and conscious habitual sins. As the saying goes, “If you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.”
“If you plan to wear the name, then be who you say you are. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked,” etc.
Many Christians are doing what is here suggested. There are many who feed the hungry, clothe the naked, nevertheless, view homosexuality as a sin and the inconsistency, if not hypocrisy, of claiming to be a Christian while living the homosexual lifestyle.
Just because one disagrees with this anonymous “queer” who wrote the letter and, from a Biblical perspective, views homosexuality as a sin, doesn’t mean they are not engaging in acts that reflect love for Christ. And just because he may not see Christ in a person does not necessarily mean that person is not living for Christ and is not possessed by Christ in a saving relationship with God.
“When I was out there in this messy life, walking without Jesus, you did not love me. I wanted nothing to do with you or your religion. You did not come to me. But Jesus did. Jesus found me.”
Apparently, his life may not be as messy as before, but even a morally re-adjusted life no longer messy is no evidence in and of itself that one has been found by Christ, especially, if there is one sin they refuse to repent from and do away with. As such, it may be re-adjusted and less messy but it is still a life apart from Christ. There may be the claim that Jesus found this person, but the question is, which Jesus found him? Is it the Jesus that goes against the Father in Heaven approving of what the Father disapproves of? If so, then, unfortunately, he has found the wrong Jesus; someone is messing with his kool-aid.
Jesus and the Father are one and whatever the Father in heaven approves of, that the Son approves of; and, as far as God has revealed in His self-revelatory written word, the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, a lifestyle in agreement with the lifestyle the world embraces, and we know that “the world is ruled by the evil one” and that “whoever is the friend of the world is God’s enemy.”
I would advise this person to re-evaluate what it means to be a Christian, that is, a Christ-follower, in possession of the Christ-life; or, perhaps he needs to take the advice he gives others: “look in the mirror, not at me or at anyone else.”