I want to say several things in this post. Here they are in summary:
- I am giving up on the violence of God project
- I am going to finish the violence of God project
- Why? Because I love you all!
So let me explain each point in more detail.
I am Giving up on the Violence of God Project
I’ve been working for several years on this project of trying to understand the violence of God in the Old Testament, especially in light of the self-sacrificial, enemy-loving example of Jesus Christ.
I have come to several realizations about this project:
- Even if my proposal is true, it makes no real difference because it is too difficult to explain. My theory doesn’t pass the “10-Year old” test. Even if I am right, I have no business writing about it yet because I would not be able to explain my idea to a 10-year old. Until I can, I should not proceed. (Note that this 10-year old test is my own personal conviction, and is not something that all writers need to abide by.)
- I have trouble seeing how my view is different than the view of those who think the Bible is just plain wrong. If I have trouble seeing any real difference between my view and those who think the Bible is in error, then why am I trying so hard to argue that my view is different? Maybe my view isn’t different, and I simply need to own up to the fact that the Old Testament is wrong. But so far, I cannot own up to this idea, which means I must give up on my project until I can either (1) explain my view better, or (2) accept the idea that the Bible is somehow wrong.
- I find myself not believing myself. This is the main problem. A person should be convinced of the truth of what they write, but I sometimes feel like I am trying to write to convince and persuade myself of something I don’t believe. That’s bad.
- My proposal creates more problems than it solves. One test of any theological proposal is that it must have less problems than the problem it was trying to solve. I do not think that this happened with my proposal. The longer I argue it, the more problems I see. A superior theological theory should solve problems of the previous theories while creating no further problems of its own (or at least, lesser problems). Sure, my theory may have solved the one of the greatest problems in theology (at least for me), the problem about how God can appear violent in the Old Testament when Jesus in the Gospels is non-violent, but in the process of trying to explain this, I created a vast number of other problems. I do not think trading one giant problem for hundreds of smaller problems is a good trade.
- I don’t think I am a theologian… For some dumb reason, I have always wanted to be a theologian, but have always been lousy at theology. It is much easier for me to study, explain, and teach specific biblical texts and passages than to synthesize and systematize broad truths found in Scripture. Maybe I should stop trying to be what I am not, and simply start playing to my strengths…
- I hear Greg Boyd is writing something along these lines… and he truly is a world class theologian, so I will let him do the heavy work on this subject… Ha!
I am Going to Finish the Violence of God Project
Despite everything I just wrote, I am going to press on and finish the project anyway.
I know, I know. If I am giving up on it, why finish it? Again, for several reasons:
- Because I have gone too far to stop now. It feels like I am in the middle of a marathon through a desert and I desperately need a drink of water, but the only water around is at the end of the marathon, so I have no choice but to finish. Also, the bones of dozens of unfinished projects lie in my past, and I don’t want this to be another one.But so that I can be true to myself and the biblical text, I think what I am going to do going forward is to stop attempting to defend my proposal (that God accepts blame for the violence of the world), and show instead how these passages point to and are fulfilled by Jesus Christ. It’s a small difference, but I think it will be much easier to do from the Old Testament texts than what I was trying to argue. If you want to know what I mean, see the post from Tuesday about seeing Jesus in Sodom. That is what I will be trying to do going forward.But note that this is not simply some foolish desire to stubbornly finish an ill-conceived project. I may have spent hundreds (thousands?) of hours reading, researching, and writing the 155,000 words of this project (so far), but all is not lost. It was not a complete waste of time. To quote Edison, “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” (Another quote of Edison, interestingly enough, is this: “Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.”)
- Most of what I wrote I agree with. Do not think I am jettisoning the entire project. While what I have written so far will probably not ever make it into a book, most of what I have written might find itself into various other books in the future. I agree with over 90% of what I have written. The main thing I cannot really argue any longer is the main idea of the book, that when God saw the evil which His people were going to commit, He inspired them to write about it in a way that made Him appear to be the one who commanded it. I just can’t accept this any longer. It might sound somewhat decent in theory, but when I look at the text of Scripture, I cannot get the theory to fit the text in a way that makes sense. But other than that, MOST everything else in the book I still agree with.
- Beyond just finding another way that doesn’t really work, I think I may have found a new idea I want to tackle instead… (that’s how investigation works, right?) … and thankfully, continuing with this current project will allow me to transition nicely into this new idea later on down the road (if I want to).
So… if you think I am wrong in the approach to Scripture I have been arguing so far, your concerns may have been justified… I am throwing in the towel.
Of course, if you are enjoying this current project and like where it is going, have no fear… even though I am quitting, I am not quitting. I am going to push on, with only a few minor adjustments going forward.
And this then leads me to the final thing I want say in this post:
I Love you All!
There are two main reasons I blog. The first is because I write to keep myself sane by thinking through writing. I have a brain that requires me to write things out in order to think them through. If I did not write, the ideas and questions would bounce around my head and muddle my brain, and I would quickly go insane. I am not exaggerating. Ask my wife. She knows when I haven’t been writing, because I start acting strangely…
I used to just do this on my own, with college-ruled spiral-bound notebooks. I have stacks of these notebooks sitting around my office from when I used to do this in my early teenage and college years. When I started this website/blog about 13 years ago, I transitioned from writing in notebooks to writing online. This wasn’t necessarily because I wanted others to read what I wrote, but because I could type faster than I could write, and because I thought the internet was a safer place to store my “thoughts” than on paper in my office or even in files on my computer.
This leads to the second reason I write: You. Much to my surprise, as I write, I find that there are others around the world who have similar questions and ideas as the ones I am having. As you have interacted with me on these posts and with this idea, I have learned from you, been taught and instructed by you, and have met many “kindred spirits” along the way. I consider many of you my “online friends.”
Just in the last week or so, several of you have left comments on some of the posts that made me see things in a whole new light and have come to a realization about some things that I have never seen before. Though I run the risk of leaving someone out, I found some of the comments and insights from Cathy and Lisa to be particularly helpful. Thank you, ladies!
I also had some conversations about this topic with my friends Chuck McKnight and Ed Underwood. Thanks, guys! (And if you like my blog, you should go read theirs!)
But it’s not just these people I mentioned. I love this community. I love you all! I wish we could all hang out in person some time!
This might also be a good time to say that I am opening up a forum here on the blog to help develop this online community. It’s a bit of an experiment, and I am a bit nervous about it being taken over by religious nuts, but we’ll see what happens…
If you want to start posting on the forum, read the forum rules here, and then register here. See you there!
Haha, I am like you in that typing is much more efficient for getting my thoughts out. They get so jumbled in my head – I have a lot and I am such an analyzer. I have a lot of questions and thoughts and sometimes don’t feel like I have anyone to discuss them with; no one I know desires to go deep enough! So, I am excited and intrigued about your forum!
Thank you!
Thanks. I don’t really know what direction the forum will take, or even if it will be helpful to people, but whatever, it is there for people to use if they want.
I appreciate and respect your honesty in dealing with this subject.
Thanks for interacting with me on it. I learn from all of you as well.
Thank You
Hi Jeremy–As someone who knew you years ago, I would like to say that I feel a great deal of pride in the person you’ve become. I appreciate your continual search for theological truth, for being open to questioning your faith and the way that we were taught to believe as children, and for pursuing God with your mind. I often felt as a child that we were encouraged to accept theological opinions and versions of Jesus without questioning. Schools and churches offered us a hegemonic portrait of God that relied on our feelings and innocence, but rarely preached a God who wanted us to use our intelligence to construct our faith. Thank you for sharing your searches, your doubts, and your beliefs. Wishing you the very best. With thanks, Jennifer
Jennifer!
I was just talking about you with my wife last week and remembering some of our years growing up! Crazy! Good to hear from you. Thank you for your encouragement. I remember that you used to write a lot. Has anything come from that? Keep in touch! (I think we are friends on Facebook, right?).
look forward to the project, and debating with the pages and ideas!
Love you too, brother
Thanks, Tony.
Dear Jeremy I’m the same about writing my thoughts down in many pads over my 34 years of being a Christian. I’ve thrown many away as they are no longer needed to refer back to as the thinking in them is either part of who I am or has been superceded by the analasis of other thoughts.
That does not mean that it’s all correct or true as the stuff that’s part of me to may be changed over the years.
I love this blog as it allows me to vent my ideas and thoughts which in some cases causes verbal conversations to hit brick walls that have called my very thoughts to be wrong thinking and as a Christian I should not even be thinking such things.
Some have said I’m questioning the doctrine of the Church, yes, I believe it’s healthy to do such as my not yet believing friends also bring into question my very belief in God never mind the doctrine of the Church.
If I don’t allow their questions to challenge me and make me think and respond, I become a closed door or a brick wall on their journey. Jesus was always an open door except to those who were convinced they were the only ones who knew the truth, even at the age of twelve learned adults were amazed at His knowledge. Only a fool would denigh The Truth when it was spoken to them when The Truth Itself spoke it.
Jeremy I love you to because you have never rubbished my comments. Your blog has given me permission to question and make statements which has allowed me to grow as a man and a believer. You have shook my very core when you say “leave the Church” and many other such things, these comments have made me think about what and why I believe and far from destroying my faith has turned me to look at scripture from a different angle and inevitably has made me more open to thinking in a different way and has strengthened my belief.
I’m not a well educated man as school never encouraged free thought or challenged the way I thought and I envy those who used the opportunity to think out of the box through Grammer schools and Universities, but it’s never to late to learn even in ones seventy second year on the planet. What I’m trying to say Jeremy is, thank you. Love Clive X X
Clive,
You have been a long-time reader and commenter, and even when you disagree, you state your concerns with respect and grace. For that, I deeply respect you and value your input. Whether or not you have degrees, I can tell from your comments that you know and love Jesus and seek to follow Him wholeheartedly. Thank you for being my “online friend.”
Yay Clive!
“Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.”
I too recognize that you, my big brother, have been with Jesus. Not bad company, eh?
Love you all!
Mark B.
Jeremy, I never commented when you asked for feedback because I don’t believe we can resolve this seeming problem. I have wrestled with the same things you are now writing about and I always give up. I can’t reconcile all the things I read in the bible! I don’t understand God! BUT I know just enough of Him to know that He is good and I can trust Him! Whenever I start to wonder I take a hard look at the cross. I recognize what the cross says about God! It says He loves in a way I can’t begin to understand! He is so different that what He does and why He does it, does not compute! But I believe that will be resolved someday. Till then I hold on to what I know and ask for help with what I don’t! God bless you as you courageously wrestle with the Angel of The Lord!
Yes, I am seeing the wisdom of what you are saying. My wife is much the same as you. She doesn’t see how it can be resolved, but she knows Jesus, and like you, whenever it becomes difficult to know what God is doing in the OT (or what God is up to in our own day), she takes a long look at the cross.
I have a mind which tries to reconcile all these things, and maybe God is trying to get me to the place where you and my wife are at, where I don’t need to try to reconcile it logically, and can just live in the love of Jesus.
Thank you for reading!
Jeremy, it is (apparently) obvious to the discerning observer that the God has undoubtedly stood you up to explain His Word to those with the God-provided ability to comprehend.
I truly — and, I think, fully — get what your understandings and misgivings are, as regards this issue.
I would (also) encourage you (exhort you) thusly: Perhaps God and His Christ have not changed, but OUR understanding of what “violence” actually means has changed; “evolved”. Possibly, we commit the “sin” of equating our current consensus on “violence” with a universal (yet, in context, “unreal”) comprehension of what Man has always thought as “violence”. Perhaps, we are mislead in this concept.
Shawn,
Yes, perhaps you are right. Maybe our understanding of violence has changed, and along with it, our understanding of how God is involved with the violence of this world. There is just so much w do not know! Thanks for the kind words of encouragement (though I think you went a bit over the top in that first paragraph … 🙂 )
Jeremy,
I found a piece of scripture that gave weight to your theology,
John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
Yes, I have been thinking of that text a lot recently I want to see Jesus in these violent texts of the OT. Thanks!
From this scripture I explored what you were saying since Jesus himself said they point to him. Although I couldn’t quite cross over to where you were wholeheartedly I will continue to explore the theology you put forward, however, I have a couple of comments to finish on.
1. I have been bringing these topics I find on here to our home groups, the conversations as a result have taken on another dimension. We now have people who are diligently studying their bibles throughout the week to bring their views to the table and it has brought some life to the groups, with that in Mind I just wanted you to know that this blog you run has an impact on group meetings here in the Uk and for the positive.
2. Reading through your opening to this thread I want to say this. You are genuinely a great man of God. Im not trying to tickle your ears here, May the father deal with me severely if I should ever become an ear tickler. As I was reading I honestly felt compassion towards you and I can honestly say in sight of God that it was from him towards you. I feel to say this to you. You have spent yourself expressing the Love of the Father in heaven and have been faithful with what he has laid on your heart, you have expressed his love to a world that doesn’t see the light of men and yet the Lord has seen your desire for men to see his love for them. Have you not shared in the sufferings of Christ in this way, he longs to gather them into his arms and yet they look on confused and suspicious. You have fought a good fight and yet in this the Lord has been training your fingers for battle. There will be a time when you will speak and the Lord will testify.
That’s it but as I finished there a piece of scripture just dropped in. The Kingdom of heaven is advancing forcefully and forceful men lay hold of it. (cant remember where I read that)
One last thing. I am proud to be called your brother in Christ. Time and distance has no affect on the true unity of the church. You are an arm and I am a foot, I don’t always understand how an arm works because I am a foot but one thing I do know is this, If there is the remotest possibility that I can be of service to you here in the UK then please do not deny me this service to you. I love you too, what I mean by that is that I genuinely feel love towards you. I have no doubt at all that our Lord is about to increase his anointing on you.
Thank you, Tony. Very kind words. I am proud to be your brother as well. I am thrilled to hear about what you are doing in your weekly Bible study, and how you not only gather to discuss the Scriptures, but the things you discuss spur you on on to think about Scripture the rest of the week as well. And better yet, this study of Scripture is not just to learn the text, but to see Jesus and become more like Him in your daily life. Thank you for your prayers and for your input on this blog.
I must commend you for being so honest and willing to take a step back. I can’t imagine many people doing that. The project has definitely touched on some good things even if you need to revise certain elements of it. God bless.
Thanks, Wesley. I think that if we are not constantly revising certain aspects of our theology, we are probably not learning!
Jeremy, you are such a cool dude. Honestly, in the world of christian blogging about theology and religious stuff I’ve rarely read something so honest as you stated above. So often it is just plain hubris and “I WILL explain the world to you, dude”, than the humble “let’s see where we get from this”-approach I see in your writing.
And now, you’re admitting your “defeat” – is a crown. Belive me, maybe like the one Jesus is wearing, one with thorns which hurts – but the best crown anyone could ever wear. The only crown that matters. Who else has the balls to say: “folks, I’ve written 15 000 words about my really cool theory to you – but I have to admit, I was wrong.” Wow, this is what I call “in your face, pharisees!”
I like your writing and your open struggle to get to the bottom of things. And I share your thinking, that the answer we give to the violence of god in the first testament is crucial. I liked your approach to hold on to an inerrant view of the bible and try to get the Jesus-way to work in the OT. I’ve been there myself – until I gave up. Not the struggle with these scriptures and with the whole theme, but with the view of an inerrant bible.
I think now, that there is only one word of God: Jesus, the one that becomes flesh. The holy scriptures tells us about him and are a witness to the way that god took with humans to let them see his true face. From a glimpse of his back to listening to him giving the semont on the mount to the holy spirit is poured out on all flesh. I don’t think anymore that a view of an inerrant bible helps in describing that story, but that it is in fact counterproductive.
So I’m with you on the “let’s see the OT through the eyes of Jesus”-thing” – but I think one can’t do that proper if one won’t give up the doctrine of inerrancy. And that doesn’t mean that the bible or the OT is just wrong. It’s still an important piece of the puzzle, and still god breathed words – but it’s a lot of human too. With room for error and human evolution. And therefore with the need to critik, if one wants to walk the Jesus way.
I don’t think this is a lesser view of the bible but a higher one, because it honors the point that the word wants to be foremost flesh and not simple to be right.
So maybe we are not on the exact same page here (and maybe you would even call me something like a german liberal – which is also the explanation for my bad english, the german part not the liberal), but so what? I like your journey and learned from it. So thank you for letting me be a part of it. And I admire your balls (metaphorically speaking!).
I just thought I should tell you this. And never forget: the thorny crown is the only one that really matters!
Your’s
Jay from frankfurt, germany
Jay, thank you very much.
It is so painful and scary for me to think about giving up on inerrancy. I am trying to figure out why. I used to think that if I gave up on inerrancy, I would slide fully into liberalism and maybe end up an atheist. But I know too many loving and committed followers of Jesus who do not believe in inerrancy to think that this is the necessary result of abandoning the doctrine.
I sometimes think that maybe my stubborn hold on inerrancy is a form of bibliolatry, so that I am treating the Bible as some sort of extension of God or fourth person of the Trinity.
I don’t know.
Anyway, thanks for reading and for walking with me through this journey. I would love to sit and talk with you more about how and why you gave up viewing the Bible as inerrant. Were there any books/resources that were particularly helpful for you?
Jeremy,
You really should listen to Greg Boyd’s summary of the content of his book on this subject. I thought it was extremely close to your line of thinking. He does not want to give up on Biblical inerrancy, either. He is using the verse about how the former things were shadows of the reality found in Christ as his starting point. I was amazed at how close the two of you were in your thinking (assuming I understood both of you!)
I went to his church website and there were two sermons to explain his theory and then a Q@A session. I believe they dated from the summer of 2012. I am sorry not to be more specific with a link but I am not very good on the computer. I know I originally got there by following your link above and then the link to the video where he denies he is teaching the Marcionite? heresy. Somehow from that video another link took me to his sermon website and the comments following that took me to Part 2 and the Q@A seession.
Anyway, you might be encouraged to hear his explanation and how closely (I think) it is aligned with yours for the violence of God in the OT.
This may be the link you were looking for Lisa.
http://whchurch.org/blog/6681/gods-shadow-activity
Thanks, Paul! I will check it out. Also, have you come across a sermon of his where he talks about Chaos Theory? You are the Greg Boyd sermon sleuth.
Thanks, Paul!
LOLI think this is the second time you followed my vague directions and came up with the link!
(you were the one who found Rabbi Geoff Dennis, right?)
You’ve got my back 🙂
Lisa,
Thank you. I think I will try to find those sermons. Another reader told me to listen to his sermon called “Fire God.” Was that one of them? I do not know the date of that sermon.
I think that maybe I borrowed from a sermon of his for my Chaos Theory, but now I cannot find that either. Anyway, I will try to find those sermons, but if you find them, can you post links to them here? Thanks.
Paul (above about 3 posts) found it for me:
http://whchurch.org/blog/6681/gods-shadow-activity
In the comments following that sermon is a link to part 2 posted by someone from Greg Boyd’s church. The title is God’s Shadow Activity. After Part 2 is a link to the Q@A also posted in the comment section by another staff member at Boyd’s church.
Thanks, I just downloaded it and will listen to it within the next week or two.
Jeremy, make sure to also listen to Part 2 entitled: Shadow of the Cross. It was preached the Sunday following Part 1: God’s Shadow Activity.
I just relistened to them both and part 2 sounds just like what you are trying to say – that God allowed people to credit Him with the violence in the OT so that He appeared guilty and took on our sin just as Jesus allowed Himself to appear guilty on the cross and took on our sin..
Jeremy, I can really understand that the perspective to lose inerrancy scares you. It scared me too. But at some point I couldn’t take and believe it anymore. But to my surprise I really got delivered by giving up inerrancy. All this false assumptions I could know how god works, by waving with bible verses around is gone now. What stayed is Jesus and his Message. And never got me his message so as when I gave up inerrancy.
A good point to start to read about this subject is the blog of Rob Bell “What is the bible” which you can find here: http://robbellcom.tumblr.com/post/66107373947/what-is-the-bible
He writes there with so much love about the bible and in the same time with so much freedom, that it is still one of the best things I have read about the bible.
Another good teacher would be Father Richard Rohr. His Book “Things hidden. Scripture as Spirituality” changed my life.
If you are ever coming to germany, tell me. I would really love to sit down and chat with you.
Greetings
Jay
Jay, my sister and brother-in-law are German (she has dual citizenship) and so who knows? Maybe I will make it over there some day.
I will check out that Rob Bell link and that book. Thanks for the recommendations.
Agree with Wesley. . . appreciate the honesty man. Gotta believe God is pleased whenever the heart is set on knowing and understanding him. Thinking when the answers come, they’ll come by grace and revelation and they’ll mean life to you and others. . . that understanding will come thru believing.
Conceivably these questions could have been around since Jesus came, curious if over the centuries they’ve been asked before. In the big picture, if not, why now? And if so, why no answers that satisfy?
Altho your searching hasn’t yet given you answers that give you rest, it’s super encouraging to those of us who haven’t searched as far as you that you’re going on with God.
Yes, these questions have been around since Jesus. Many of the early church fathers struggled with them as well. One of them, Marcion, decided to just dump most of the Old Testament. He got condemned as a heretic as a result…
Except for a small minority, the questions pretty much stopped getting asked once Augustine developed his “Just War Theory.”
Thank you for walking along this difficult road with me.
Even i visited and shared this website redeeminggod.com
I realize and accept that I’m an outlier here in terms of religious thinking. That’s because I don’t think about the subject much at all.
In my seventh decade of this life, after having experienced many years of church-going in various denominations and my own evolution regarding faith, I have said “Enough.”
The translator who used the phrase “passeth all understanding” summed it up for me. I’m an intelligent person, but I’m not nearly smart enough to comprehend the vastness of the universe and how it came to be. It’s sufficient for me to say it exists, something made it happen, and I am a result of that occurrence.
How people centuries ago chose to interpret it is of interest to most but no longer matters to me. I embrace the overriding guidelines contained in what we call the Judeo-Christian ethic, but I’ll leave the parsing of words and the debating of their meaning to others.
To accept the existence of a supreme being and/or force that brought all this about is to admit that I am incapable of imagining the sheer magnitude of what it must be. To attempt to explain it in human terms is understandable but futile.
There is only so much that I can control. All I can do is live what I believe to be a “good” life, whether or not some reward awaits me. In the end, I will die knowing that I tried my best to do so.
This is not meant to disparage anyone’s beliefs. We all walk different paths, and this place happens to be where I have found myself and my comfort.
I love outliers! Most of my best friends sound exactly like you. There is so much about life that we do not know, that it sometimes seems to be the height of arrogance to claim certainty about some things.
For myself, I would much rather hang out with and have conversations with people who are knowledgeable enough to be uncertain about most things, than with people who assume they have answers to almost everything.
So thanks for being here, Ken!
Thank you so much for your work and honest approach to the matter of the OT portrayal of God. I have struggled with this area, but your blog posts have been a great encouragement. I believe you and Greg Boyd are absolutely correct on one thing: Jesus is what God looks like–and if Christ instructed us to forget what we think we knew about God and look to him to inform us, then maybe we should do just that. Since Jesus overturned the basis of OT justice (eye for an eye), should we not be suprised if He overturns the OT concept of a violent, bloodthirsty God? Apparently Jesus was born into scandal (conceived out of wedlock), which was a stigma that extended throughout His life (Pharisees said “we don’t know where he comes from” which can be taken as not knowing who His father was). He also set himself up to appear to be a guilty criminal who didn’t defend himself. I think He allows these false perceptions of Himself. It takes faith and revelation to get past the misguided assumptions of God…at times many of us who seek answers have had these God ordained “ah-ha” moments, where you feel like God let you in on a secret about who He is–like Peter did when He confessed Jesus as the Christ.
Anyway, I’m glad you’re continuing this subject in the book. Maybe the dots will connect and give you that ah-ha moment on this subject. Like a miner who has been digging for gold and is a few inches from the mother lode without knowing it, perhaps all that is needed in your search is a new tool, approach, or simply more digging in the same direction.
At any rate, just know that what you have done has NOT not been in vain! I can testify to this.
Thanks again for all you’re work and allowing us to join in the conversation.
Darryl Van Dyke
Thank you, Darryl. I am so glad that you are journeying with me through this series, and are helping me in the struggle.
I do so want to come to understand these violent portraits of God in the Bible, and in recent days have begun to despair of ever doing so. It scares me. Thanks for the encouragement.
Jeremy,
I really appreciate your comment about abandoning and continuing the violence of God subject. esp the part about not being convinced yourself. That honest and humility is really refreshing.
Thanks, Bob. It’s a bit depressing for me… I hope that as I press on, the community here and the leading of the Spirit will help us all come to how these violent portraits of God point us to Jesus and are fulfilled by Jesus.
Thank you for your honest thought and study about God character…:)
Though I find myself disagreeing with some of your thoughts…I appreciate the fact that you are willing to take on “accepted” teaching, and look at it from another perspective. I have a question: Why do you do it? Do you write your blog to work out your thoughts? Or do you consider this a ministry of sorts? Entertainment? Or for monetary gain? Or some or all the above? Just curious as I don’t think I’ve seen you address why you do your blog…
God bless you Jeremy
Ward,
I write to think through theological issues. I think best when I write. Blogging helps discipline me to keep writing. Before I had the blog, I still thought through issues by writing, but it was MUCH slower because I didn’t have the requirement to make regular posts. So even if nobody read this blog, I would still do exactly what I am doing right now.
Writing is also somewhat therapeutic for me. I suffer from some depression, and find that writing calms my mind and helps me focus on God and Scripture instead of on the stupid things that get me “down.”
Jeremy, you are an excellent writer. Whatever you do, don’t stop writing. You might think you are not a theologian (I think everyone is), but you have a gift of being able to bring out complex ideas in concise, clear language that is accessible to a wide range of readers. I make my living doing that (as an editor), so it is a real pleasure to read your work.
(Your book, ‘Adventures in Fishing’ has been the number 1 hit in this household. Even the non-readers in the family have loved it – and they all ‘get’ it.)
As for your violence of God project, I have enjoyed your different take on things: some of the differences are cultural, I’m sure, and some are just around word usage (that ‘blame’ thing was really a problem for me – but I am sure it was just the meaning I attached to the word). I was really, really looking forward to your resolution of the issue, and I am sorry that we won’t be seeing it from you. (I love your writing, remember?)
Thanks also for the special mention. I hope you enjoyed the interaction as much as I did, and found it positive overall.
Thank you, Cathy. I am glad your family is enjoying that book on fishing. I had lots of fun writing it. You should see the chapters that never made the cut!!! They were… well… a little too over the top for most Christian audiences… Ha!
Anyway, yes, I agree that everyone is a theologian. So, yes, in that sense I am. I just find that writing about specific texts of Scripture comes WAY easier for me than trying to synthesize and systematize what Scripture says in a theological way.
I’m glad you have the honesty to look at these issues Jeremy. Trying to balance the OT view of a violent God with that of the non-violent Jesus we see revealed in the NT isn’t easy. Unfortunately, it would seem to me, the Church has too often let the OT portrait of God’s violence to override what we see in Jesus. The OT has time and again been used by the Church to justify violence whether in wars or against its enemies. This has been especially true since the time of Constantine and the establishment of Christianity as a state religion, up until that time the Church was against violence and on the whole refused to take up arms. But of course such a stand wasn’t a course a religion of the state could stomach, so it would seem the NT was reinterpreted in the light of the OT so Christians could be given scriptural justification for taking up violence.
The balance does need to be readdressed, and even if you think your attempt hasn’t been wholly successful, I have no doubt that your attempt at explaining these things has been worthwhile. I appreciate your contribution to the debate.
Thanks for the link, Jeremy! And I’m glad to hear that you’re not really abandoning the book project.
I think the forum is a great idea. I’m signing up now.