The following post contains a proposal about how to understand the violence of God in drowning the Egyptian army. I am publishing it for your input and feedback. I think that maybe what I have presented is a bit of a stretch, but if I am going to maintain some bit of sense of the inerrancy of this text, I can see no other way of reading about the drowning of the Egyptian army in Exodus 14 through the lens of Jesus Christ dying on the cross for His enemies.
In other words, the question I am trying to answer in this post is this: “Why would Jesus die for His enemies on the cross, but God drowns the enemies of Israel in the Red Sea?” Doesn’t something seem “wrong” in that picture? It does to me… This is my attempt to provide a solution…
Please provide your input in the comment section below….
One almost feels bad for Pharaoh.
After experiencing the crushing humiliation of the ten plagues which culminated in the anguishing loss of his firstborn son, Pharaoh damages the economy and productivity of Egypt by finally allowing the Israelites to leave Egypt, only to change his mind and chase after them in hot pursuit, which leads to the decimation of his army in the Red Sea.
If there is any lesson at all in the sad tale of Pharaoh in Exodus 1–14, it is that pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall (Proverbs 16:18).
Nevertheless, it seems from various clues in Exodus and other texts in Scripture dealing with the Israelite exodus from Egypt that it was never God’s intention to break Pharaoh or destroy Egypt. Instead, God wanted Pharaoh to recognize His sovereignty over all things.
If at any time during the ten plagues, Pharaoh had submitted to the will of God and let the Israelites go, the nation of Egypt would not have suffered the way it did. Although it is a popular Christian teaching to say that God sent the plagues with the express purpose of hardening Pharaoh’s heart so that God could destroy Pharaoh and the Egyptian army, this way of reading the exodus event is probably not the best and does not reflect the heart and love of Jesus (See Forster and Marston, God’s Strategy in Human History, 63-69).
Despite God’s warnings to Pharaoh and repeated signs that God wanted Pharaoh to let the Israelites go, Pharaoh continued to disregard God’s warnings and rush headlong toward his own destruction.
This is not only seen in the events of the ten plagues, but also when Pharaoh’s army drowned in the Red Sea.
The Drowning of Pharaoh’s Army in the Red Sea
There is something quite strange about the drowning of Pharaoh’s army which needs to be pointed out as we seek to understand the violent descriptions of God in the Old Testament in light of Jesus Christ.
While few would consider the drowning of Pharaoh’s army one of the more violent actions of God in the Bible—for didn’t Pharaoh bring this destruction upon himself?—there are a couple things in the text which helps us understand God’s involvement in human violence.
God’s Power over Chaos
First, it is important to remember that from an Old Testament Hebrew perspective, the forces of rebellion and chaos arrayed against God were often identified with the sea, and especially with the storms and waves that often rage across the sea. This concept was considered in previous posts as part of the discussion of the flood.
So once again, just as the ten plagues put on display the power by God over the impotence of the various Egyptian deities, so also, the crossing of the Israelites through the waters of the Red Sea showed that God even had dominion and power over the threats of chaos, storms, and destruction that were identified with the sea.
The parting of the Red Sea is not just a miracle to give to the Israelites a path through the waters of death and destruction, but is primarily intended to show the Israelites that not even the raging gods of chaos and destruction can overcome God’s hand of protection over the Israelites.
However, this does not mean that God’s hand of protection is without limits.
The Limits to God’s Control
The entrance of the Egyptian army into the path through the Red Sea demonstrates that if a group of people persists in rebelling against God, there comes a time when not even God can hold back the consequences of such rebellion.
Destructive decisions must eventually lead to destruction, even though God has pled with people to turn back and warned them about where their decisions will lead.
Pharaoh had been warned ten times already to let God’s people go, yet by sending his army after Israel, Pharaoh revealed that he still had not learned. He still could not let go. He still persisted in rebellion against God. The Red Sea crossing was not a trap set by God for Pharaoh, but was a form of deliverance for God’s people Israel, and Egypt, in their rebellion, tried to use God’s protection as a method by which to destroy.
As a result, destruction came upon Egypt instead.
God’s Attempt to Deliver Egypt
But it is critical to note that even prior to destruction falling upon the Egyptian army, God attempted to deliver and turn the army back so as to avoid the devastating consequences of their sin.
In Exodus 14:24-25, after the Egyptian army had followed the Israelites into the Red Sea, the text says that God sought to turn the Egyptian army back by bringing trouble upon them. He caused the chariot wheels to fall off, and brought confusion among the ranks.
It appears that through such actions, God was trying to non-violently warn the Egyptian army that destruction was about to fall upon their heads, and they should turn back while they still had time. The Egyptian army received the message loud and clear, and in fact, did attempt to turn back. Exodus 14:25 says that they sought to flee from the face of Israel. They stopped pursuing Israel through the Red Sea and turned back toward the shore from which they had come.
Yet the text takes a troubling turn at this point. One would think that if God was bringing troubles upon the Egyptian army so that they would turn back, that once they did turn back He would let them escape the Red Sea and live. The point was to deliver Israel; not destroy Egypt. And once the Egyptian army turned back, as the text says they did, what reason could God have for drowning the Egyptian army?
And yet that seems to be what occurs in Exodus 14:26. Just as the Egyptians were seeking to flee from the sea (cf. Exodus 14:27), the text says that God instructed Moses to stretch out his hand over the waters so that they might collapse back down upon the army. And so all the horses and men of Pharaoh’s army drowned beneath the waves (Exodus 14:30).
This confusing and somewhat contradictory series of events seems to indicate something going on behind the scenes, which is not fully evident in the text itself.
Behind the Scenes of the Drowning of the Egyptian Army
It seems that while God’s protection was upon Israel, this protection did not extend to the Egyptian army because of their continued refusal to heed God’s warnings and submit to God’s sovereignty.
As such, the Egyptians were in rebellion against God and had departed from God’s hand of protection. Through the use of the pillar of cloud and fire and by causing confusion among the army ranks when the chariot wheels fell off, God continued to try to keep the army out of the danger of drowning in the Red Sea.
But once Israel had passed fully through the Red Sea, the forces of chaos and destruction could no longer be held back, and they swept away the Egyptian army into death.
But What About God’s Command to Moses in Exodus 14:26?
The command of God to Moses in Exodus 14:26 to allow the waters to fall back upon the heads of the Egyptians can be understood as God taking the blame for that which He did not prevent.
Though God repeatedly warned the Egyptians about their rebellion and tried to get the Egyptians to turn back from the Red Sea crossing, they responded too late and destruction fell upon them, just as it had in the tenth plague.
In Exodus 14:26-31, God takes the blame for this event and bears responsibility for it because it is something that happened on His watch and seemingly by the hand of His prophet, Moses. But really, the fault lies with the Egyptians, and specifically with Pharaoh, who consistently and rebelliously walked in the way of destruction.
“Having cast off every God-given opportunity to repent, Egypt under Pharaoh succumbed fully to the destroyer’s jurisdiction” (Campbell, Light through the Darkness, 72).
God’s Involvement in Drowning the Egyptian Army
God’s action in the miraculous Red Sea crossing was not in drowning the Egyptian army, but in holding back the waters for Israel as they passed through on dry land.
God’s actions were for deliverance and protection first from the invading army and second from the drowning waters. Though God did not desire that the Egyptian army be killed, their refusal to repent and refusal to abide by their promise to let Israel go meant that they had departed from God’s hand of protection.
So once the Egyptian army stepped foot into the Red Sea, God was not able to hold back the waters any longer. Due to their sin and rebellion, the Egyptian army was no longer under God’s jurisdiction, but was under that of the destroyer.
The waves of chaos and the forces of the sea swept over the Egyptian army and carried them down into death. The destroyer destroyed the Egyptian army; not God.
What are your thoughts on the drowning of the Egyptian army in Exodus 14? Did God really do it? If so, how do you reconcile the enemy-loving, self-sacrificing Jesus with the enemy-drowning, vengeful God of Exodus 14?
How can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?
These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!
I agree. The depth of the rebellion and sin was evident. They were fully running from Gods protection. Had they escaped the Red Sea they would have continued to pursue Isreal. Your thoughts bring clarity to the aspect of God being by nature love and sacrifice. Thanks
Thanks. I am not completely satisfied with my explanation, but hopefully it is a move in the right direction.
Jesus died for everyone friend and foe alike. Whether friend or foe,we all fall short of the glory of God The gift of the sacrifice of God’s son saved everyone who belives Jesus died for all and resurrected from death., thereby defeating death of the soul caused by sin Salvation cannot be earned It is the gift of God As for why God allowed the Egyptians to die, God saved his chosen people from certain death by killing those who would surely cause the same.
“And I, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honor upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen.”
Just wondering what your thoughts are here, because it seems that if God was trying to keep them out of the sea, this is a strange way to go about it.
Several times Yahweh acts to harden Pharaoh’s heart (Ex 4:21, Ex 7:3, Ex 9:12, Ex 10:1, 20, 27, Ex 11:10, Ex 14:4, 8, 17) It was not Pharaoh’s sin if Yahweh was forcing him to act the way he did. The murderous beast, Yahweh, wanted to punish Pharaoh for something. If you coerce someone into doing something that leads to the deaths of others, are you not the real killer? If Yahweh had any love for humanity, he could have softened Pharaoh’s heart before any Egyptians were killed and could have held back Pharaoh from any action to prevent the Israelites from leaving. Instead, Yahweh chose to act so that thousands if not millions of Egyptian first born died and the soldiers died. Sorry, Jeremy, there is no way to put a plaster on this wound. Yahweh committed intentional murder and should be held responsible. He does not deserve any worship, honor, or praise from humanity. We certainly should not be making up excuses for his bloody rages.
Yes, it is almost as if God had never read the Declaration of Independence or something.
Why do we always try to apologize for God? God hates evil and wickedness as his word tells us. He loves mercy, truth, and justice and his purpose will always be accomplished. Pharoah authorized, he actually gave the order to destroy all Jewish babies. His pride and rage destroyed his own country. Pharoah hated God and Israel, it consumed his and his army’s heart so much that when they went after Israel they looked forward with delight to killing the men, women, and children (Exodus 15:9). They had their slaves for over 400 years and well, isn’t that nice he wanted to keep them. Did we not have a civil war over it and how many died? God could have destroyed all the Egyptians could he not?And by the way, the destroyer is the angel of the Lord which is Jesus Christ. Pharoah had many, many opportunities but like Cain, he never found true repentance. God took David’s son but David had true remorse, a real contrite heart, and loved God. Also, Exodus 14:9 does say the Egyptians said let us flee but they obviously did not because the sea regained its strength in the morning (Ex 15:27) and Egypts army was still pursuing and only when the sea was returning were they then fleeing. It is painfully obvious Pharoah had commanded them to continue to pursue. He had gone against the advice of his officers before and likely did so again. God will always be with his people, it is a hard lesson some never learn, as Hitler, and people will continue to hate Israel to their own detriment.
Spot on definitely spot on
I agree with Pira’s information. We have free will and many will choose their own way and NOT God’s way. Everyone must answer for their particular choice.
Yes, this is the hardest verse in the passage for me. I spent a few hours last week trying to figure out a way to explain it, and ultimately failed. The only thing I can say now is that this is what Moses thought God was saying…
Think about this verse: For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. (Psalm 5:4). We believe God and we can’t always understand His ways for 1 Samuel 6:6 says Wherefore then do ye harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had wrought wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed? I don’t understand how to reconcile 1 Samuel 6:6 with Exodus 4:21 and perhaps Proverbs 29:1 provides some insight between Exodus 4:21 and 1 Samuel 6:6: He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.(Proverbs 29:1). However, we believe Psalm 5:4 and know that anytime anyone says God loves to kill or destroy it is simply not true and there are many verses that state otherwise. God if anything is slow to anger.
Good article. Can anyone imagine what would have happened if God hadn’t opened an escape route for the Israelites then closed it? It would have been a massacre of the entire Israelite population. And there would go one of God’s big promises.
As you said, it was only the Egyptian’s pride that led them to assume their god(s) would keep them safe as they pursued the Israelites to slaughter them. And when you put it like that, it kinda makes the idea of blaming God for it a bit silly. If they’d had their own Moses, he could have kept the waters open on their end!
As for the turning around – I had always assumed it was a combination of individual soldiers trying to get out against the flow of more army from the bank, Pharoah still driving them forwards (not appreciating quite what was happening) and, even if he had approved, the real intention being to regroup to fight another day.
Cathy,
You are right about the confusion in the masses. My wife pointed out the same thing to me. Even if the army had turned around, Pharaoh would have just ordered them back into the sea.
I guess that means great wives think alike!
That’s a really good point that pharaoh would have kept pursuing them. I feel like the death of the Egyptians was one of God’s last resorts. Moses also promised that the Israelites would never see their enemies again. (“And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.”
Exodus 14:13 KJV)
Theres only one way to never see them again ….
There is a fatal flaw in the second sentence of your post.
The entire old testament is built upon the blood sacrifice—which God commanded, and which Jesus satisfied on the cross. That was violent—designed to show the penalty of sin. I do not believe that Jesus died for His enemies in the same way that the armies of pharaoh were the enemies of Israel—He died for those whom God loved and drew to Himself. I think that we make a mistake when we try to make God into our image—or the image of who we want Him to be. Remember that in Revelation a conquering Jesus returns—with a sword. Hopefully you will find the answer(s) that you are looking for.
Brad,
Are you sure the loving God is “making God in our image”? Couldn’t it rather be a violent God who is made in our image so that we can use Him to justify our own violence toward others? I think so.
As for the book of Revelation, I will be dealing with that book in later posts.
Psalm 95 v 8 “do not harden your hearts as at Meribah as on the day of Massah in the wilderness.
Exodus 17 and he called the place Massah and Meribah because the Israelites quarreled and because they tested The lord saying, “is The Lord among us or not?”
Psalm 78 v 40 how often they rebelled against Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the wasteland.
Proverbs 28 v 14 blessed is the one who always trembles before God, but whoever hardens their heart falls into trouble
Ezekiel 2 v 4 the people I Am sending you are obstinate and stubborn. say to them “this is what the Sovereign Lord says”
Hebrews 3 v 15 “today if you will hear His voice, don’t harden your hearts as they did in the rebellion”.
God did not harden the heart of the Pharaoh His actions against the Pharaoh’s people did. Do we not do the same when we are disciplined by our parents as children or by our employer when we call ourselves adults, don’t we want to ‘get our own back’ don’t we relish it when they become ill or have an accident and we say “it serves them right” justice has been done.
When people interpret “God hardened their hearts” they immediately say “it’s not my fault, you made me do it” how childish how immature we are. Have you not heard have you not seen. Isaiah 40 verse 21 are we so ignorant?
Why is it so difficult for us to understand? because we have not the mind of God but the mind of our earthly father the devil. John 8 v 44 the father of all lies.
We should all be careful when we call God evil. Clive
Love this, Clive. The collection of passages shows that God does not want anyone’s heart to be hardened.
Prinzhal, God was, is and always will be good, there is no evil in Him. Rebellion gave birth to evil, God sacrificed Himself so we might have the opportunity to live the life He chose for each one of us, you and me and a few trillion other deceived souls.
When we do sin we have a way out and it’s not to blame others or God. 1 John 2 v 1 he writes “my little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with The Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” He is the sacrifice for our sins and those of the whole world.
The way I remind myself of my wrongfulness in accusing anyone is when I point my accusing finger at someone, there are three more pointing back accusingly at me. First, we have to test our own heart, and even if we feel we are right, there is only one who is righteous and that is Jesus, and even though He had no sin he chose to be sin by taking the blame Himself. There is a price to be paid for all rebellion (sin). Jesus said to the crowd who were going to stone a woman to death because of adultery (notice the man she had committed it with was not there with her, as the law said both should be stoned to death) still goes on today in Pakistan. Jesus said “let those who have committed no sin cast the first stone. How many people have we stoned to death with our thoughts, our words and our actions?
The Hymn says “there was no other good enough to pay the price of sin He only could unlock the gate of heaven and let us in”. Clive
In response to the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart, have you, Jeremy, or anybody else read this article? http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1205
Pretty interesting, and makes a lot of sense.
Thanks for the link Angela. I had a quick visit and noticed a number of topics I will be going back to as well.
I haven’t read it, but I am headed over there now.
I’ve heard someone who is of the opinion that God never spoke or did anything in the Old Testament, but left the job to lower level management, ie. angels, and only came on the scene in the New Testament in the person of Jesus Christ. This, of course, because of the difficulty in explaining God’s behavior in the OT in the light of the NT.
I’m not sure that we can take literally that God hardened Pharoh’s heart. We have been created as free moral agents capable of using our own mind, will and emotions. If we are trying to justify the parrallels between Yahweh and Jesus Christ, this is not something that Jesus ever violated. To say that Yahweh abondoned and left Pharoh alone to his own devices, I believe would fall more into the character of Jesus Christ, like Jesus did with Judas when he was about to betray him. Interesting topic and comments here.
Yes, maybe that is a better way of explaining it. Maybe God’s hardening Pharaoh’s heart could be understood similarly, in that God did not try to dissuade Pharaoh from doing what he was going to do?
ALL GLORY TO OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN
Do you want me to be mute when they slaughter my people,the widowed,the abandoned,the poor and the hapless?The hurt they inflict on my people,how can a father bear his children being killed and left for dead?Therefore,to reinstate love on Earth,hope and my life to sustain my creations,I’m pushed by the unrepentant nature of my creations.
If the wicked turn away from wickedness,I’ll regret for the harm that were to befall them.
He created us.If we selfish and pathetic sinners and proclaimers of the self are so conscious,how much more would our father be?
He asks us to cry with our eyes like fountains for the sins of the world that the wicked may live and change towards God.Don’t blaspheme God’s love.Pray,God’s heart longs for redemption
By
A pathetic Judas Iscariot saved by the cross of father Jesus.
Jeremy, your brave posts are certainly doing much to rattle people’s theology of indifference, the theology so many of us grew up with – in one Lisa Robinson’s explanation, a theology that simply accepted what one’s congregational preachers and other favourite ‘anointed’ televangelists, etc would state the Bible stated.
It is almost impossible to truly understand the biblical concepts without considering their Hebraic background and mindset. We do not imply following Judaism and their religious concepts and traditions, but an understanding of the cultural and historical legacy of which Jesus of Nazareth was part beyond any doubt. We must be able to determine what the readers or hearers of the oral tradition would have understood. I realize many contemporary theologians have a problem with this view, but that is their loss.
Hebrew was a God-centred language spoken by a God-centred people. Whereas Greek was the language of humanism, the language of facts and reasoning, the thought patterns of the Hebrews were lively, rich and colourful. They changed abstract thought into concrete ideas. In this way all the trees of the field could clap their hands and the mountains could jump like rams. No wonder then that Martin Luther realised while in the process of translating the Hebrew Bible into German just how difficult it was to convey so much in so few words in another language.
The Hebrew wants to know what happened, while the Greek (and therefore the modern Westerner) wants to know how? Whereas the Hebrew understands/accepts that God created the universe in six days, the Greek or Westerner wants to know how that can be possible. I think this great divide between Hebraic and Westernized (Greek) understanding has caused numerous wrong perceptions on the biblical record.
Gerrie,
Excellent points. I have read books on Hebrew thought compared to Greek and how the languages impact the way people think. You have summarized some of the differences nicely. I am certain that part my difficulty today with some of these texts is that I simply approach it from a different perspective, as you point out.
I am going to disagree with some of what you have said in your post Jeremy. I think the stretch you talk about is thinking the wheels came off the chariots because God wanted to save the Egyptians.God had already given Pharaoh many chances and Pharaoh had been deceitful in letting them go in the first place. This was a mocking of God and in effect saying that God couldn’t do what he had said. God created the confusion when all the wheels fell off and I think the Egyptians weren’t trying to stop following the Israelites but were trying to save their own lives. Can you imagine the size of that wall of water on either side of them. Just think a tsunami wave times a lot more.
God’s love is so often seen in a wishy washy way today. His patience, long suffering and love is immense, but he said he will not always contend with man. His great love even in those days was that he would not let evil totally take over the world and he wanted proper relationship with his children, and knew what would happen if they didn’t obey him. After all God is the only one with the plan for our lives.
I actually agree with you, Jan. I think the wheels coming off and the confusion in the ranks was a sign of the Egyptians trying to save their own lives.
God will not always contend with man. That is correct. Do you know the context of that statement? Read Psalm 103. It will change your idea of what God will not always contend with man means. God will not always contend with man because God is merciful and compassionate and will ultimately forgive. Don’t even think about arguing with me until you have read the Psalm.
Jeremy,
I enjoy your openness and willingness to post a “theological concept” that is still in development… but I have to admit, it seems like you’re trying a little too hard here… I’v read one of your more recent posts and realize that you have to set this aside for a while (at least on your blog). Perhaps that’s why I’m commenting… I’ve wrestled like this before too.
A few years ago, God laid a question on my heart that drove several years of study and wrestling – the question was, “What is the purpose of God’s wrath; what does God intend to accomplish through his wrath?”
I was (and still am) unable to ignore the passages of scripture that assign wrath (violence) to God. But, the moment the question of God’s purpose was laid on my heart, my heart response was, “He is a loving Father, disciplining his children.”
As a father of two little boys, I sometimes let my boys suffer the consequences of their poor choices; sometimes I even “inflict” consequences in order to keep them from future disaster (think of a toddler running into the road). In their toddlerhood, they may see me as hard, wrathful, unjust and unkind – but quite the opposite is true – I love them and would die for them. As they grow and our relationship is built, I pray they understand that my “wrath” is driven from my love.
This is now how I see the wrath of God – it is because he loves us that he chastises us. I see the OT as the “toddlerhood” of humanity – when we didn’t realize that the violence of God is ultimately for the good of His children – the veil had not yet been lifted. Jesus had not yet come to show us the heart of the Father through his ultimate self-sacrifice of love.
To open your post, you said:
” ‘Why would Jesus die for His enemies on the cross, but God drowns the enemies of Israel in the Red Sea?’ Doesn’t something seem ‘wrong’ in that picture? It does to me…”
I would agree with you here if I believed that death from this life was the end of the story. I would agree with you if I believed Christ didn’t have the keys to death and hades…. but he does (maybe that’s out of context, I don’t know… but it gets the point across). 🙂
“Wrath” that is driven from love, and for the good of the one who experiences it, must by its very nature be limited in it’s scope. This “wrath” cannot be the end, it is a means to an end. Even when Pharaoh and his army are drowned, I see God using this as a means to a great and glorious end for Pharaoh, his army, the Egyptians…. as well as for Israel.
I definitely agree. I was trying to hard. Way to hard. This is why I have temporarily stopped writing on this project and set it aside. I need to start over and rethink the whole thing from the beginning (again — I’ve done this 3 times now I think).
I am not sure I will end up where you end up in your comment, but at least I am no longer fully pursuing the line of argument I tried to advance in this post.
But how can you fit the Canaanite genocide into this picture? How could utterly destroying an entire city be ultimately for their good?
For the past few days I have been meditating on this recording in scripture and I came across this posting in the process. I have had a frightening realisation (Or is God reminding me of something about Himself that I already know?) Is there anything new about God in this incident to any serious Christian with a healthy fear of God?
In this event we see two attributes of God at display simultaneously, namely God’s favour ( or grace) and God’s wrath. God here clearly demonstrates that He can deal with us favourably or in wrath; and He decides when. He communicates this to both Israel and the Egyptians. To both parties He is making himself known.
What happens when Israel crosses the red sea and are safely on the other side? They soon forget the wrath of God and go on to make for themselves a golden calf (typical). We all know what happened next.
To me the lesson is for Christians (and non believers alike) not to take God for granted! If anyone persistently sins one will taste the wrath of God. Some Christians are in the habit of taking God for granted. Christians are more aware of God’s standards (in our speech; behaviour and attitudes and our thoughts) and yet we test him! Some of the things we bring out, despicable!
It’s no wonder we are not making an impact at all in the world. It is increasingly becoming difficult to tell between a believer and a non-believer.
I would recommend to anyone to carefully read Romans 1:18-32. Pay attention to what the Holy Spirit is saying in this passage, bearing in mind that the passage is about the wrath of God. Spend some time on verse 18.
Did God drown the Egyptian army? Yes He did!!! Will God punish godlessness, irrespective? Yes he will!!!
Jason,
Since Jesus reveals God to us, can you imagine Jesus drowning people? Can you really imagine Him rounding up a bunch of Roman soldiers and tossing them into the Sea of Galilee in complete armor so that they sink and drown?
Read the account of Jesus clearing the temple in John chapter 2. He made a whip and drove out the offenders; He scattered the coins and overturned their tables. The words “Get out of here!” were used and so on. How do we reconcile this aspect (anger, wrath) of God with the character of God (love, gracious, long suffering, etc)?
The answer is simple, wrath is also one of His attributes. It is elicited by unrighteousness (Sermons on righteousness are increasingly becoming unpopular in our churches today because we don’t want to offend anybody). This is the gist of the account of the drowning of the army of Pharaoh – some might beg to differ because of the many lessons therein. The original command to Pharaoh was ‘Let my people go, so that they may hold a festival to me in the desert.’
There is a time for judgement (now or in the future) and a time for grace!
There is no need to deny or be ashamed of this aspect of God (Wrath). He does not hide it from us. The Bible is full of records to this effect.
We may be in danger of inventing ‘a god’ other than the God of the Hebrews, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus; our God and Father.
Why not take this matter to Him in prayer and let Him defend Himself? After all He is not a mute idol (like the Egyptian gods that could (or cannot) speak nor come through for Pharaoh!!!
Jason,
I’m sorry… did I miss the part of cleansing the temple where Jesus pulled out a sword and slaughtered everybody?
Even with the whip, there is no indication in the text anywhere that He actually hit anyone.
Anyway, I have taken this up in prayer with Him, and He is showing me more and more that He looks like Jesus, not like the pagan war deities of other religions.
Thanks Jeremy, although I think I detect some sarcasm in your remarks.
It is of paramount importance Christians portray accurately the character of the God of the Bible to the world; even more so to fellow believers. Let those who are gifted to teach do so accurately and boldly, with the help of the Holy Spirit.
I marvel at the grace of God. I have the following words in gold print, penned by Emmanuel T Simbomana, in a picture frame in my living room to remind me all the time about the goodness of God – “Oh how the grace of God amazes me!” In spite of this, I pray I never lose sight of the fact that this same gracious God, whom I worship and praise for saving me, is a God of wrath. And like I pointed out last time, the wrath of God is elicited by unrighteousness. This resonates throughout the scriptures. Even though Jesus did not draw a sword (He never carried one anyway) and slaughtered the offenders in the temple, He still reacted in anger against injustice.
I was going to ask your thoughts on the flood of Noah but I noticed you have already touched on this on another forum. This event and many others, such as the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, clearly teach that the Almighty God, creator of Heaven and Earth and the hosts thereof, whether things that visible or invisible, reacts to or punishes sin, sometimes violently so, and may result in the destruction of whole cities, as was the case for the above named cities [Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.” (Genesis 18:32)]. Sodom was so bad!
Unfortunately, humankind sometimes act as vehicles of expression of demons and/or fallen angels – the real enemies of God. It is therefore helpful, when considering the subject of rebellion against the rule or authority of God, to look beyond the human being, the pinnacle of God’s creation, as you quite rightly pointed out in one of your fora. The situation in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah was a demonic manifestation of serious proportions which resulted in the annihilation of the two cities by God (real event, myth or metaphor?; See also 2 Peter 2:6).
We are all aware of the idolatry of Egypt during the period in question (Idolatry is worship of or the work of demons – some may beg to differ). I think God may act to destroy whole populations in order to contain the demonic problem (personal view; The problem of demons is much more greater and serious than we would like to admit, and I say this at the risk of being branded an alarmist).
The God of the Hebrews was trying to tell the Egyptians He was the true God! I wonder how many conversions occurred as a result. I do know with certainty, however, that the Lord Jesus took refuge in Egypt many years later. The ways of the Lord as past finding out (Romans 11:33)!
After reading Tyler G. Johnson’s “How To Raise The Dead” (which I HIGHLY recommend)….
What I want to know more about concerning the “God is only Good” theology and “God is Good” Gospel is…
What was the ancient Hebrew understanding of satan and evil?
The theory prevails that the writers of the Old Testament, Ancient Hebrews, had an under-developed understanding of satan and evil… and so in their story-telling, their record, God was credited with killing and disasters and works of evil, rather than their true purveyors and perpetrators. We know God’s revelation is progressive, throughout time…
Evil exists because of God’s love, which provides free will. Evil has no part in God; He has never had anything to do with evil. He is the furthest thing from evil…. God is Holy and Love. He has no evil to give, not now, not in the beginning, not ever. Evil is manufactured from the self… and self was made possible by free will, because of God’s love.
The theory I speak of is that if Ancient Hebrews had the True concepts of satan and evil that some of us hold today, portions of the Old Testament would have been attributed differently. Namely those that destroy. God is not a destroyer. He doesn’t hold that action in His nature.
To steal, to kill, to destroy…. those actions and motives DO NOT come from Our Father, God. Jesus made that clear… He attributes those activities to another (satan) and be it far from us (any man) to attribute these things to God, death included.
This is as serious to the Believer as the Supremacy of Christ: The Goodness of God. They must be stood for at all costs. Fought for with every fiber we have within us.
We must strive to understand the True Goodness of God. It is key to His nature, His love. And we are different for it.
It’s not easy to understand how/why the OT was written the way it was… attributing killings, disasters, plagues, even genocide to God. We know from Jesus and from the Father’s imprint on our Hearts that this cannot be True. These things go against every fiber of God’s Being and we need to stand up for Our Loving God. We need to have His back in this matter. We need to understand His Heart to be able to do this effectively.
I maintain that the Goodness of God is as important a matter to defend as is the Supremacy of Christ.
I am right with you on much of this.
I do not think the Hebrew people had much of any understanding of Satan. Of course, I think most people today don’t either. A series of books which really helped me see satan in a new way is The Powers trilogy by Walter Wink.
Thanks, Jeremy…. The Powers trilogy…
Maybe you should consider the fact that there is no historical record of a “captivity” in Egypt. Other than the reference in the bible there is no evidence whatsoever that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt.
How could 600,000 families (which would mean about two million people) cross the entire Sinai without leaving one shard of pottery (the archeologist’s best friend) with Hebrew writing on it.
How can it be that no Egyptian records make mention of the sudden migration of what would have been nearly a quarter of their population?
Or any evidence can been found for any of the expected effects of such an exodus; such as economic downturn or labor shortages.
Nor there is any evidence in Israel that shows a sudden influx of people from another culture at that time. No rapid departure from traditional pottery has been seen, no record or story of a surge in population.
So, maybe God is good, with no qualifiers. Love does not kill, human wicked fantasies and their consequences do.
I loved this post and I feel like it cleared up a lot of things. However something that has been bothering me is that God essentially was to stop te plagues when pharaoh let the Israelites go to worship him but God was the one who hardened his hart. He hardened it to bring more plagues. Couldn’t he have just let pharaoh make his decision then base the plagues on that instead of continuing to harden it himself and cause more death?
Great question, Hannah. I wrote a post here about the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart. I don’t know if that answers your question though…
God is love, wrath and justice. He showed all in the Exodus. As to the “hardening of Pharaoh’s heart”, we know God does not contradict Himself by taking away Pharaoh’s free will, so what does it mean? To me I read it as “I will harden Pharaoh’s heart” = Pharaoh is going to become angry by Me coming in and telling him what to do. I will be the REASON for Pharaoh’s anger, embarrassment, pride, and indesisiveness–hard heart. For all of his free will NO’s against letting My people go he will reap and so will Egypt. And My power I will show all. “I have hardened Pharoah and servants hearts” = They are angry at Me, again God is the reason not the cause. Like when someone says “I have made them angry — hard of heart — just by doing such and such”.
I am having a hard time explaining the difference to my 12 yr old between Saddam Hussein gassing kurdish children in 1988 and the last plague. Any suggestions?
Saddam Husein was not omniscient, he also had a sinful nature. God is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and has never sinned. That alone makes these events radically different, and should buy a lot of benefit of the doubt. Also, Jesus is the perfect representation of His nature, so there were obviously some unique circumstances here.
One, God is faithful. He made a promise to Abraham and his descendants. He made a covenant with Abraham, and he must be true to that covenant, or violate His nature. Those that bless Abraham, God will bless, those that curse Abraham, God will curse. Don’t mess with Abraham or his descendants as a people group. Those that do will eventually incur wrath. Also, God gave several overt supernatural signs that He was not messing around. The Egyptians decided to tell God to go jump in a lake.
God, at some point, expects us to have faith in Him. To trust Him. Sometimes, He gives us all of the details. Other times He says…. I’ve given you enough details. You know I’m just, you know I’m loving. I don’t jump thru hoops and I don’t always explain myself, but I’ve given each person enough light to know that I can be trusted.
When God judged Sodom and Gomorrah, we saw that God rescued the righteous, and did not condemn the wicked with the righteous. We have those details in that account. We don’t have all details in all accounts, but we know enough about His nature to trust Him when we don’t have all of the details.
God always gives nations time to repent, often hundreds of years, eventually the time runs out and it’s judgement time.
It’s also important to remember that we are all sinners worthy of death, every last one of us deserve to go to hell. We are sinful, wicked creatures that give birth to more sinful, wicked creatures. We are all fallen and it’s only by His mercy and grace that He allows any human to continue to breath His air. I think that’s important to remember. Rather than marvel when God judges, I marvel at his restraint and long-suffering nature.
So, those are some of the reasons I think the two events are very, very, very different, and some of the things I might mention to a 12 year old.
Now, that doesn’t mean that on some level it’s not a disturbing judgement. But I have seen enough to trust God with the things I don’t understand. God expected Abraham to act in faith when told to sacrifice Isaac. I’m sure that it was infinitely more difficult for Abraham to wrestle with that command, than it is for us to merely read accounts of what God did in a different time in a different economy before Jesus ushered in a new covenant and a new way of approaching and relating to God.
Surely a redeeming God could have secured the release of the Israelites without killing all the innocent first born. Also what evidence is there that the Egyptian army was destroyed. If it had been surely other enemies would have taken the opportunity to take over Egypt
I am puzzled by many of the views that many ‘christians’ hold to, because they have no support in Scripture; and I’m speaking of major fundamental beliefs. These would primarily include the lack of understanding as to who/what _ha satan,_ the adversary, actually is, and the apparent inability to understand what being dead really means. The idea that dead people carry on living after death negates the proclamation of God that Adam would surely die if he ate the forbidden fruit, and it denies the certainty of death. Trying to impose a belief that Scripture does not support (that only the body dies but the soul lives on) is totally unscriptural, because we read in Genesis that man BECAME a living soul, NOT that he was GIVEN a soul. Therefore, if the basics are not properly understood then there isn’t much chance of getting anything else right.
I found this so so helpful. My sweet 10 yr old girl asked me last night “ Mim if one of God’s commandments is do not kill why did he break His own rule and drown the Egyptian army?”
But tbh is brought clarity to me also as I can see clearly the mercy of our Just and sovereign God.
I think you’re right, although I didn’t finish reading and must be elsewhere. The problem was Pharaoh’s not God’s. 10 times God showed mercy by sending a plague, each getting worse and worse. At any time he could have said “Yes,” and let Israel go, but he didn’t, and when he finally did, he was angry with himself for doing so and set out his army to drive them back by forc God has said “I take no joy in the death of the wicked.” And even today that happens.
God says to love your enemies , but only God is holy and hpour holiness comes from gosa and Jesus and not from our own goodness. ao to love our enemies and to tuenghe other cheek and and not judge others butleve judgement to God is because unlike Jesus humans are all sinners and God is not. ao how can one aimner judge another aimner a he is a winner himself. God on the other hand is holy so he will judge with righteousness. when God judge the Egyptians it was though his righteousness and he created all things. . he was very lenient on the Egyptians and would have been righteous if he has judges them completely after the first plaque. he instead have them chance after chance. this shows his love. in the end death is in god’s hands so we all dies sooner or later and God is even in charge after death.
It seems a little contradicting. Is it possible that the scripture was changed to make moses appear innocent? Did Moses alone close the red sea? God punished him right after by leaving his side and made him travel back to the start where God spoke to him.
It seemed to me that God chose him because he had problems controlling his anger, so much that he killed a man.
God selected moses to lead the people and Moses’s anger and frustration torwards the people got the better of him multiple times. Moses was punished for that anger ego a few times and God choosing Moses to lead (knowing of his faults), knew that Moses would one day learn to humble his ego.
God corrected Moses’s faults by letting him make those mistakes and punished by teaching him patience and humility. Moses saw the promise land but wasn’t allowed to enter. The humility of that, probably crushed any bad ego Moses had left. Moses learned that he could not take one ounce of good credit for exodus, it was all God’s work done through Moses. Only credit left was of the bad kind(it weighed a ton) from when Moses took matters into his own hands.
Therefore God saved him.