Some people wonder what you learn in seminary. Others wonder if seminary is worth all the time, effort, and debt. (By the way, if you are thinking about Bible college or seminary, I recommend starting off with an online Bible college or seminary to see if it is for you.)
As for myself, I am glad I went to Bible college and seminary because I think it provided me a “speed course” in much of the things I was already learning. I think I still would have learned most of what I learned in Bible college and seminary, but it would have taken me much longer.
And yet… to get the knowledge that you learn in seminary, you have to wade through a bunch of crap. In other words, what you learn in seminary is often only helpful while you are in seminary.
What you Learn in Seminary
For example, I still remember in one of my “Eschatology” classes (study of the End Times), three different students were interacting with the professor about what we were learning. Between the three of them, they used the following terms: “ontological bridge,” “theological taxonomy,” and “epistemological center.” And yet we wonder why the average seminary graduate has a difficult time connecting with the average person on the street.
Thanks to seminary, I understood what they were saying, but all I could think was, “I hope those students don’t preach much.” If seminary teaches us to talk like this, seminary is a failure.
If you ever catch me talking like this, come burn my books.
People often wonder what you learn in seminary. While there some value to seminary, mostly you wrack up a bunch of debt to learn to talk like a moron.
Have you been to seminary? What was your experience of seminary? Do you know seminary-trained pastors? Are they able to interact well with non-seminary trained people? Are you thinking of attending seminary? Why or why not?
Dude, my brother in law is in seminary at the same place. His name is Matt Droter.
Mike,
I don’t think I know him.
I checked the picture directory and cannot find him in the listings. Did he just begin?
Jeremy,
I think “ontological” is a favorite buzzword among many seminarians. Also, don’t forget about infralapsarianism, traducianism, Petrine, Pauline (I have a great aunt named Pauline, but we pronounce it Pawl-een), and Johannine. I have thought about playing buzz-word bingo at seminary.
I have often thought how I would do new student orientation if I were in charge. A rough outline would be…
1) Teach students how to instinctively say “Hmmm” and have a very serious look on their face any time a professor says something profound. They should then think about the point for a while and the take a few notes as they nod their head in a ‘well-done’ fashion as though the professor needs their approval.
2) Instruct students to immediately buy a Mac and then put a Starbucks sticker on it and download the most recent Derek Webb album.
3) Divide the room in half and have one half put Libronix on their PC and the other half put Accordance on their Mac and then have them argue over which is better.
and finally…
4) Teach them how to phrase an observation in the form of a question so that they are really asking no question at all. This usually comes in helpful when a student wants a professor to know that they are really into the lecture. Another modified form of this skill is the student who reads ahead in the professor’s notes and asks a question from the upcoming notes so that they professor will say, “Excellent question, that is actually my next point!” An even more refined form of this skill is the student who can begin a question by saying, “Our brother asked an excellent question. To piggy-back off of his question, how do you think his point fits into God’s missional desires for the nations in light of what was said in chapel last Tuesday about the imago dei?” This scores major points because in a few sentences, the student complemented another student even though he doesn’t know their name, demonstrated that they were paying attention in chapel last week, and they also used a term (imago dei) that is current, trendy, emergent and is also trying to be introduced into the seminary student’s day-to-day vocabulary by the theological and world missions departments so that such students can stake their claim in the dialogue and conversation going on among other students. A vague, open-ended question like this also allows the professor to embellish. In my time at DTS, though, I have only come across a handful of students who have reached this level of classroom etiquette.
I am ready to be done too,
Daniel
I never went to seminary but this was hilarious.
Daniel,
That is so funny! I laughed so hard. It is all so true. Oh, my aching side!
I don’t think I will be able to hold a straight face in class any more.
Very funny list Daniel. Points 1-3, and most of point 4 would work in any liberal arts college classroom I believe.
Jeremy, I hope your profs don’t read your blog. 😉
Amanda,
Ha ha. I hope not as well! Of course, there are no secrets on the internet! But even if some do, I’m not doing anything against them or the seminary. I go to class, do the assignments, write the papers, take the tests. Oh, and I do learn things, much of it very good.
And I’m not real critical of the professors. I respect many of them, and hope to maintain relationships with them once I graduate. I also appreciate most of the students and their hearts for ministry and love for Jesus. But there are always a few of these other kind…God bless ’em. They’ll probably be writing the theology books of tomorrow.
Daniel:
Theatre students could use the same orientation. It’s amazing how many technical-sounding terms and intense debates we had for what was basically making it up as you went. Very funny.
Bullet,
Are you in theatre? Are you doing any shows or plays? I read your blog a bit and enjoyed several of the articles (I laughed about the Winter Solstice one, since Christians often think that the world is trying to steal Christmas from us, but in reality, it is the other way in around in many ways…). Anyway, I couldn’t tell if you were in theatre or not.
I think there’s a pretty nice cycle for seminary students:
year 1: totally enthusiastic, young idealistic faith
year 2: fairly smug, enthralled with knowing and using hip theology terms
year 3: tired, disillusioned, a little bitter, anti-something or other
year 4: just starting to get over one’s self, wanting to “get out there”
Then it takes about 5 years after seminary to be able to say, “What I learned was really helpful, it just took me a while to figure out how to use it.”
I’m a little slow, so I went on the 6 year plan 🙂
John,
That is an excellent observation, and probably right on target. This cycle seems to be reflected (at least at DTS) in the way students dress. You can see that the longer a student is there, the more sloppily they dress.
At least, this is something I have noticed among many of my peers, and a bit in myself…
As an alumnus of Asbury Theological Seminary in Kentucky(though I was a Counseling student), I absolutely love the sentiment behind this post. So many of my seminary friends talk like this and I am constantly asking them how these conversations and 10 dollar words help lay people in the congregation. The themes and ideas behind them are good, yet they are entrenched in “seminary speak,” and risk losing their audience.
Herschel,
As a counseling student you understand the importance of speaking to people in ways they understand. “Seminary speak” is not that way.
Jeremy, I don’t think you can rightfully blame seminaries for the inability of pastors to repackage the rhetoric and content of biblical scholarship into a form that is easily received in the church. I see that this is largely the responsibility of the student to take the info learned (dialoguing effectively on an academic level) and then translate it into the language of the people. I deeply enjoy this task!
We should not expect seminaries to do the hard work of studying and preparing to preach our sermons. Seminarians ought to be spending their time, money, and energies learning how to think critically. It’s unfortunate that I must defend the many profs and schools that have to put up with lazy students who feel obligated to go to seminary for a piece of paper which they believe gives them the right to lead others. I see these lazy students in my classes always complaining and spewing forth their anti-intellectualism… how they despise learning and would rather someone speak to them on the level of a 4th grader, only to confirm what momma and their favorite pastor had already told them. They should just go home. They are taking up time that myself and others could be using to go deeper with a prof who really cares about us and our ministries–who desires that we are able to communicate on the level of the man on the street.
I don’t know how they do things at DTS, but I don’t think your profs would agree with your assessment of the way things are in seminary. I’m sure folks like Bock and Wallace would have something to say about it.
Just some things to think about. It’s your responsibility to speak so folks understand, not your seminary. If they are promising that now in their degree programs, I haven’t heard about it. You get exactly what you pay for… assuming that your perspective is right and you are investing the way you should.
When there is a disconnect between the scholars of our faith and the communicators our faith suffers. There is a reciprocating accountability needed in all things, not just Christianity. Without hard academics our faith loses its moorings set a drift from its historical shores. Without practical powerful local communicators, i.e. pastors, our faith would never venture from the ivory tower upon that shore. Seminary is the place where each learns to value the other and maturity of faith is cultivated.
Brett Blair, Great points, and well written! You are a communicator, I can tell!
Languages, speaking, and a little history and leadership. Overpriced.
Then we all need to go to Seminary.
I went to seminary and loved it. I loved it because I took as many book studies as I could. I loved spending an entire semester learning in depth about a certain book of the Bible. I hated everything that seminary thought was practical. The so called practical classes didn’t help me at all. I was actually talking with a friend about this the other day. It’s crazy to me that I took 93 seminary credits and came out not knowing how to do a wedding, funeral, or lead a staff meeting. That shouldn’t be!
Ha! My experience as well. All the “practical” classes were relatively worthless. “How to preach” “How to counsel” “How to lead”
Like you, I took as many courses on books of the Bible as I could, and benefited from many of them.
Jeremy, It really does depend on the seminary and more importantly the teachers. It can be a place where you faith grows or where it completely goes. Bart Ehrman is just one famous example of faith going out the window at seminary. It is far better to have a mentoring experience than develops your spirituality than a prestigious divinity school where your faith falls apart. I went to both a conservative and liberal seminary, but left because I felt it was going nowhere. I like to point out that the apostle Paul and co would have taught you free of charge and would be outraged at the institution of seminary that leaves people under heavy debt (Freely you have received, freely give). Paul most likely would have simply invited you to his place or you tagged along and learned hands-on.
I didn’t accumulate debt. I don’t recommend anyone go into debt for seminary. Put it on God and if he doesn’t make a way don’t go. Since when does he command us to incur debt to conduct the gospel work? I worked 3 part time jobs at some periods during seminary to avoid debt. My grades were not great but oh well. I was newly married and had a newborn–family came first.
We live in a system and that system requires some measurements and credentials. This is why seminary is necessary and a personal mentor or mentors doesn’t work in terms of accreditation, and there is probably some value in that.
I found most profs to be good men and women but little was said about how nasty church ministry can get–who would have kept going to seminary had they known how brutal ministry can really be?
Yuri Wijting, yes, it does depend on the seminary and the teachers, I suppose. Ironically, Bart went to the same Bible College I did…
Jason Henderson, I worked full time while in seminary, and still went into debt. Not sure how you did it, but glad you were able to graduate without debt. I am still paying my loan off, and will be for another 10 years or so.
Bart attended DTS? Ten more years?
No, Moody Bible Institute, where I went to Bible College.
Some of us learn better in structured environments. Because it is not the preferred learning structure for all is not reason to scrap seminary. Further, while the subjects in seminary were languages and history and homiletics, it taught me to better understand myself, my motivations, and my biases, both to correct myself where needed, but to make me better able to understand and thus empathize and serve the people who asked me to tend the flock.
Seminary is a place; ‘school’ where the priests are trained to become good preachers to the faithful