Let’s see if I can get someone to condemn me as a heretic (again)…
In some previous posts, I have suggested that the term “inspiration of God” in 2 Timothy 3:16 could be understood as the “whisperings of God.”
In this post, I want to float out an idea which has been bouncing around in my head recently, and which I am submitting for your input and comment.
Is the Inspiration of God Only for a Select Few?
The way some people talk about the Bible, it seems that God’s whispering of truth was only heard by a small group of Middle Eastern men for a few brief centuries. In other words, since Moses began writing the Pentateuch (Genesis–Deuteronomy) around 1400 B.C. and since the last book of the Bible was written around 400 B.C., are we to believe that throughout all history and around the entire world, God was only whispering to a select few individuals for only a few brief centuries?
The Old Testament contains 39 books written by less than 30 men over the span of about 1000 years.
Did God only whisper truth to these few people who lived in a tiny section of the world for such a brief period of time?
Based on what we know about God, it is preposterous to think so.
God has communicated with many others
Even Scripture itself reveals that God was whispering truth to other people. Other than the universal revelation of God available to all people through creation and conscience, God was whispering truth to people who were not biblical authors.
Many of them were women (e.g., Miriam, Deborah, Ruth, Esther), and there are numerous hints within Scripture itself that God was whispering His truth to people who were not even Israelites (e.g., Melchizedek in Genesis 14:18-20; Balaam in Numbers 22–24).
It seems likely that if God was whispering truth to non-Israelite people like Melchizedek and Balaam, they He may also have been whispering truth to people whom we know nothing about.
For example, why couldn’t there have been men and women living in the Far East to whom God graciously whispered truth?
Why couldn’t there have been a Native American tribal leader to whom God whispered truth about His creative power and His dominion over all the earth?
Why couldn’t there have been a hardworking clansman from Northern Europe to whom God whispered truth about the origin of all things and the imminent arrival of One who would defeat evil once and for all?
This is not too hard to believe, is it?
If God truly is the God of all, then why would God not reveal more of Himself to people all over the world who responded to revelation He had already provided through creation and in their conscience?
In fact, Scripture seems to indicate that this is exactly what God was doing.
The Universal Inspiration of God
He placed eternity within the hearts of men (Eccl 3:11), and through dreams, visions, and other forms of special revelation, revealed Himself to people who were not yet “His people” (cf. Gen 14:18-20; Num 22–24; John 12:32; Acts 10:3-8; 16:9; 17:26-27).
Quite likely, many of these people saw that creation was red with tooth and claw and wondered what kind of deity would create such a place. Many of them, seeing the love and care that family members often showed for each other, wondered what such relational love among human taught us about the God who created humans. Many of them, looking at the innumerable stars, wondered about the power and glory of the God who created such beauty.
And it is not wrong, I think, to assume that in all these situations, God was there, through the universal presence of the Holy Spirit, whispering His truth to people who lived in all corners of the world. How could it be otherwise and God still be all-knowing, all-present, all-powerful, and all-loving? If God did not whisper truth to people who were seeking Him, what kind of God would He truly be?
Furthermore, what if some of these people to whom God whispered His truths wrote down the things they were seeing, thinking, and learning?
What if various people in Asia, as they contemplated the things they were seeing in nature and hearing in the whispers of God, wrote down what they were learning? Is that too far-fetched to believe?
What if someone in Northern Europe wrote down the stories, legends, and teachings that had been passed down from generation to generation—the stories about the struggle between good and evil and how a day was coming when good would ultimately triumph over evil? Is that so unlikely? In his book The Scapegoat, René Girard points out that the central themes of the Gospel Passion accounts are also found in all world mythologies (101).
The Universal Whisperings of God
It is this universal whispering of God to people all over the world and throughout time which can partially account for some of the similarities in ideas and belief systems for groups of people all around the world. In this way, all religion is a strange mix of God’s whisperings to mankind and mankind’s idolatry.
Though I would not go so far as to say that all religious writings are inspired by God, I think it is not too much to say that all religious writings derive in some way or another from people listening to what God whispers to their spirit.
In this way, we are not making the Bible less inspired as much as we are saying that other religious writings are more inspired than previously believed.
No, they are not inspired in the same way or to the same level as the biblical accounts, but in some way or another, other religious writings do contain wisdom, insights, and truths which God, by His Spirit, was whispering to people all around the world and throughout time. Sometimes what they wrote was a purely human invention, and sometimes what they wrote was demonic in origin, but if the Spirit of God moves where God wills, and if God’s will is to reveal Himself to all people around all the world and throughout all time, then who are we to say that God’s Spirit was not whispering truth to people in ancient Egypt, Greece, Norway, China, or North America?
Would it not make sense to assume that God was whispering to them as well, and that some of their legends, myths, and religious writings are based on what God was whispering to them? It seems entirely possible.
Please note this word of clarification: I AM NOT saying that the other religious books are inerrant. Not at all. There is a huge difference between people hearing what the Spirit is whispering to people all around the world on the one hand, and writing inerrant Scripture on the other. And as to the Spirit whispering truth to people all around the world, what is the problem with this? Doesn’t Jesus say as much in John 16:8?
The Bible is inspired in that it reveals what God was whispering to people who wrote Scripture, and to people in other parts of the world who were also responding to the revelation which they had received from God (whether it be through creation or conscience).
This does not mean that the Hebrew Scriptures are not unique in the world. They are. They are unique in numerous ways, four of which will be looked at in the next four posts.
Until then, am I off my rocker? Is this going “too far”? Or do you think it is possible that the “whisperings of God” as I have described it here might actually be more widespread than we Christians usually assume?
All *truth* is God’s truth regardless or where it is revealed. Hyperbole and metaphor are a laser pointer directed at the sun.
I think it’s quite too much to say that. The only way it would be true is if the writing coincided with the Word of God. God does not contradict Himself. If the writing contradicted Gods inspired Word it would not be from God.
My husband and I have actually been talking about something along these lines lately. I’ve come to think that God has placed within each and every one of us a desire to know Him and He has created the world in such a way as to show His glory and majesty. It’s up to each one of us to open our minds and be willing to find the truth, and if we do, then God will reveal Himself. Is this what Psalm 19 refers to? And Romans 1:18-32? Or is that section of Romans referring specifically to the nation of Israel? I don’t know…I’m no Bible scholar. I’m fairly new to studying the Bible.
Also, what about in Exodus 20:5 and 34:7, for example, where God talks about visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the generations after? God was known to all people in the very beginning, but as time went on some chose not to pursue Him, and instead fixed their eyes on some other idol. Then, the subsequent generations suffered from the decisions of their parents.
So, it could be either from “whisperings” like you said, or from oral tradition passed down from generation to generation – each generation distorting the truth a little bit due to unbelief being passed down.
I don’t know if this is what you’re getting at. I may be going off on some tangent that doesn’t have anything to do with what you were looking for. If so, sorry!
Angela,
Yeah, that is kind of what I am saying. This post has come out of a multi-year thought process on inspiration, and specifically, how to deal with the violent and troubling passages of the Old Testament.
It sounds like you and your husband are thinking in the right direction. Keep humble and keep open!
All things written must pass the biblical test of truth and reality….understanding there are many truths of the Almighty that are in the scriptures, but are still mysteries, hidden by the Almighty for his purposes.
“False fire on the altar…?” Whazat?
Wow you have to be kidding!
If Jeremy hung out in L5P in the sixties and seventies, you’d be suggesting that _Principia Discordia_ had caught up with him.
MY assessment is that various religious writings of the world are vague musings that see their fulfillment in the “written-in-stone” PRONOUNCEMENTS of Hebrew Scripture
Jeremy, all writings cannot have the same source. For instance the Koran denies the crucifixion of Jesus (not to mention serious anachronistic interpretations of Moses and Abraham). Other writings prescribe different solutions to the problem of mankind – meditation, 8 fold paths, 5 pillars of faith, and what have you. Simply put, to deny the exclusivity of Jesus means that the writing, at best, is not even inspired and worst, it may be of demonic origin.
Yuri,
I wasn’t trying to say anything about inerrancy. I certainly agree that there are major discrepancies in other religious writings, and major contradictions in those books with what God says in the Bible.
So I am not saying anything about the inerrancy of those other writings.
Also, I am not saying anything which denies the exclusivity of Jesus. I believe that there is “no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.”
Yes there is a spirit behind all these books and God can use anything to lead people to Himself but Jeremy you are teaching error when you say this sort of thing because people will read your words and wander off into all sorts of wrong ways..trust only in the Word “Man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word which comes from the mouth of God” All other “bibles” are inspired by some spirit, it is just not the spirit of God.
Amen ! Dennis. We need to stay on course and that is the the word of God. We need not mix his words with other writing.
OK just call me troll….but could not stand quietly by on this one….I have seen too many people wander away from truth when exposed to another religious source be that source JW, Mormon, or New Age…just be very careful here it is playing with false fire on the altar.
Thank you for this article. It’s something I’ve been wondering about myself, in a different way, and makes me think. I don’t know what the answer is yet but I will enjoy pondering it further and discussing it with my friends.
That’s all I was hoping for… to make us all think.
Seems like another Old Covenant obscurity to hang a hat on….
I’m listening. What am I hearing? Jesus is the TRUE Word of God. When did you last burn incense or sacrifice an animal? When did you “heave shoulder and the wave breast shall they bring with the offerings made by fire of the fat, to wave it for a wave offering before the LORD; and it shall be thine, and thy sons’ with thee, by a statute for ever; as the LORD hath commanded.”
Okay Dennis. This won’t go anywhere. Peace to you.
……….. The “real Jesus…” Is that the one with the American flag lapel pin on his robe and a member of the Republican Party? That one?
Check any good concordance….it is a story in the Bible about two men who felt their fire was as good as any and God took them out for offering strange fire. (Lev. 10 – Nadab and Abihu)
http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/when-did-christians-get-so-mean
Yeah, there are some mean comments here, right? Sigh.
Jeff listen to you….this is the TRUE Word of God you are talking about. It is not some Old Testament obscurity…it is the revealing Word of God. So then you are saying that you would rather have the “light” of the Gitas in Hinduism over the TRUE Word of God…you are already a New Ager. Paul clearly tells us that “these things were given to us as examples” and you denigrate it as “obscure”. It is anything but.
Jesus is the “Living Word” but He so associates with the written Word that in order to know the One you must know the other. You will not find Jesus in the cults books or even in the ancient religions…you will find demons there.
Jeff…the old saying remains…the man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still. Peace is the product of knowing the real Jesus there are others out there.
America takes a bad rap a lot these days because we have done what the Isrealites did…we have forgotten a lot. We have forgotten that the inside the Rotunda of the Capital Washington and others used to go to church on Sundays. We have forgotten that along with the bad things done in the name of America thre has been an awful lot done that is of the Lord. So if you want to label me this way go ahead I would rather be a conservative in politics than a person who has no convictions.
I’m not even going to try to track with you, Dennis. You are attributing to demons what demons cannot do. I’m sure you have some obscure proof-texts that will (in your mind) validate everything you say. It’s a waste of stewardship to attempt to reason together with those who are saturated with regurgitate dogma and handed down indoctrination. The Peace I wish is unqualified. For what it’s worth, I do believe in the Supremacy of Christ and what he accomplished through his death and resurrection. And – I do have convictions.
When you tell people things they do not want to hear, you’re bound to be considered “mean”. My reading of the Gospel of John leads me to believe that Jesus was “mean” the way he challenged authority.
God is not the author of confusion. He says things like I’m God follow only me. He’s pretty straight forward. The devil deals in counterfeits and they range from totally different to extremely subtle.
It is important to go back quite a bit into the heavenly history where confusion first started. This area of sin started war in heaven causing God to cast out satan along with a third of the angels, as written in the Bible. It is also written that they were cast out on the earth. So therefore is it not safe to say that confusion around religion is still rampant among us even today. It is the devils plan right from the beginning to creat confusion among Gods people. My words are simple, but let’s open our hearts and mind to allow the spirit of god in who will guide us into all truths. Remember that Jesus is knocking at the door of every sincere heart and Mind and only we can open to allow Him to enter.
Yup, you’re a heretic. Just kidding. I agree with you. In fact I think you could have taken it a bit further. Personally I’m no longer convinced that the bible is more inspired than all other religious texts, although it might be. I really can’t say for sure.
I grew up in a church environment where accepting the bible as the absolute truth was the only option. If I had grown up in a culture where the Tao Te Ching or the Bhagavad Gita was considered the most divinely inspired book I might have believed that instead. Now that I’ve read some other religious texts and explored a relationship with God outside of institutionalized church I now hear and see God’s truth in many things.
Aside from this, I now know that the bible is not as flawless as I was originally lead to believe. As I once mentioned before, most biblical scholars (secular and non-secular) agree that several of the books in the bible (new and old testament) are forgeries and several others are attributed to people who did not write them.
I believe the bible was inspired in the way you described above in your post, but I’m not so sure it’s the most inspired.
Ooh! Wow. Quite a statement there at the end.
Would you say it is just as inspired as others, or less inspired?
I actually think a BIG problem with this whole discussion (and where most of the negative comments are coming from) is that we are all using the word “inspiration” but we mean different things by it…
You are probably right. By “inspired” I mean the same thing you described in your post about the whisperings of God.
My point about the bible is that I don’t necessarily think that it is MORE important than all other religious/spiritual texts. At the same time I don’t think that ALL others are equal to it either.
At the end of the day I think we have to treat each text separately, and if Christ truly in us we will recognize truth and error in many places.
Would love to bite – but this will take a very long time.
Jeff…you are one interesting fellow…a moment ago you said the discussion was over and you wished me peace so I simply agreed with you and then you came on again and again and again…and then said you wouldn’t track with me…how funny. At any rate you are going on a lot for not tracking. Now yes I am saturated but not with somebody’s doctrine…”faith cometh by hearing and hearing the Word of God” that is what I am saturated with. Regurgitate? Thanks for that…but what you said at the bottom of your last statement is I think a reasonable recitation of what the Bible teaches…so are you now “regurgitating” vomiting up TRUTH…hmmm. I am puzzled. No you are telling the truth which is the message of the Gospel once delivered to the Saints. And as for demons, the Word of God tells us that demons have doctrines, and if they have doctrines where do you suppose they put them….?
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. In fact, just last Monday I posted a blog about it on Goodreads.
It should not surprise us, since God is, according to our doctrines, omnipresent, that some men throughout history might gain some understanding about him. In particular, Lao Tsu and his Tao Te Ching, Heraclitus and some of the stoics come to mind. In fact, Paul himself references a Hymn written to Zeus as if that hymn were speaking about our God, if I am understanding correctly. I don’t think the idea that others would have some degree of revelation would have been entirely alien to him.
That doesn’t mean, per se, that everything they think or say is true, of course. I daresay we Christians manage to derive plenty of false doctrines from a supposedly inerrant book.
Here is the link to my blog, if that is alright:
https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/6389345-the-divine-inspiration-and-preservation-of-the-holy-scriptures
Absolutely! I love your posts. I am headed over to read it right now.
I just read it. Wow! What a great post. I subscribe to your blog and I must have missed this one when you published it. Thanks for linking to it.
If you don’t mind, I am going to post part of it on this blog and invite people to go read the rest.
Thanks Jeremy, that would be fine with me.
This teaching does not square with reality and attempts to lessen the reliability of biblical inspired revelation.
Well, maybe we are living in different realities and are reading different Bibles…
Mr. Meyers- I must deal with your misstatement. I am the one who said on another post that what you were saying was heretical. I never called you a heretic. You could have easily engaged me- but I see you decided to play a martyr in a very misleading way. It’s far too easy to stir the pot and have someone come along and question you and then run and hide on the issue. The issue was on hell and whether it should be used in evangelism and your point of stating that the gospel was claiming that the Christian way of life was a better way of life as though that was sufficient. I said that was heretical and I still do believe that because it negates the uniqueness of Christ and makes the Christian message one of many POSSIBLE messages instead of the unique “I am the way and the truth and the life and NO one comes to the Father but by me”. I consider that a very wrong way and heretical in the sense its not giving the unbeliever what is necessary for them to know the importance of what they are considering. Now if you want to perpetuate the misnomer that somehow I said you were a heretic I guess thats your perogative. But the truth is I said your view was. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Mark,
Honestly, I had no recollection that you called me a heretic. Did you?
I was absolutely not referring to you at all. If truth be told, the first draft of this post contained a link to what I was referring to, and it was a post from 2007 where people condemned me as a heretic back then. But I took that link out.
So don’t take anything in this post as an attack on you. You were not in my mind when I wrote this post.
WHICH spirit??? “The Goddess” holds a “spirit” over this world, but she is the Devil.
Exactly.
Yes, she has “inspired” men, Ignatius Loyola, Muhammad, Joseph Smith, but these are HERESIES. . .
Exactly!
Other writings can be tested. Where are they? The Quran and the Book of Mormon are riddled with error and in cases fasle according to arcaeology and anthropoligy.
Did I say these books were inerrant? I must have missed that part of my post. Hmmm.
Definition of HERETICAL
1: of, relating to, or characterized by heresy
2: of, relating to, or characterized by : ((departure from accepted beliefs or standards unorthoodox))
Also I see you wrote I condemned you- are you hearing voices Mr. Meyers?
Jeremy. You are in good company. Your stake awaits.
Ha ha! Good thing we don’t do that today. Now we just try to get people fired from their jobs….
But C.S. Lewis basically says the same thing & he’s held in high esteem.
If someone uses the word “heresy” maybe it is because they discern teaching that is contradictory to main orthodox Xian doctrine. That’s usually how that goes.
Hilarious!!! Christian sarcasm to another believer! How delightful and refreshing!
Hi everybody. Wow. Quite the discussion here. A little too much for me to respond to everyone.
Please note this word of clarification: I AM NOT saying that the other religious books are inerrant. Not at all. There is a huge difference between people hearing what the Spirit is whispering to people all around the world, and writing inerrant Scripture.
As to the Spirit whispering truth to people all around the world, what is the problem with this? Doesn’t Jesus say as much in John 16:8?
Love it Jeremy – keep stirring the pot 😉
I got some similar responses when I posted something from the Dali Lama – LOL
People don’t like it when you challenge their dearly held beliefs.
Well you didn’t respond and I can’t say I am surprised. You have lost my respect Mr Myers.
Respond to what? Not sure what you are referring to, but if that causes you to lose respect for me, okay.
The resurrection of Jesus Christ sets Him and His book, the Bible, apart by infinity! There is only one God. All people can be wrong in presenting their god, but not all can be right. The resurrection of Christ settles the issue, as He alone had the power to lay down His life, and take it up again.
Yep, I agree 100%
I have long believed that all truth is God’s truth. The Bible is the book that we should measure everything else by, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t nuggets or portions of truth in other religions.
Most religions have a version of the golden rule. The Bible carries it further and makes it a positive command, rather than just negative. It’s not enough to simply not do to others what you don’t want done to you (that’s the version found elsewhere), but he tells us to DO to others what we would WANT done to us. The others aren’t wrong, they just don’t go as far as God would like. Does that mean the other teachings are from the devil? I don’t think so. All truth is God’s truth. Test everything, keep what is good.
It would be dangerous and wrong to go from there to “that means all other religions are correct”, but I don’t think that’s what Jeremy is getting at. In fact, he specifically said as much. There have been times in my life when a non-Christian has said something that has been very profound, and I have recognized in it the direction of God. That doesn’t mean that I am going to attribute to that person the weight of God in everything they say, but I would be foolish to ignore God speaking because I want to hear it from a certain kind of person. Again, the Bible is the rule of measure. If someone speaks something that lines up with God’s word, it’s truth, no matter what the source.
Right. I agree. I am nowhere saying that other religions are correct, or that their writings are inerrant. I believe that Jesus is the rule by which we judge all things, and of course, the Bible contains the revelation about Jesus.
You make a great point there at the end about truth being able to come from other sources. That is all I was trying to say.
This is along the lines of some thoughts I have had, and have been exploring with The Lord. Inhad been planning on writing about this same subject soon. I’ll be sure and link back here for others to read. Keep pressing, Jeremy. You are not alone.
Wow, Brandon.
See? I think this is the Spirit of God moving in the hearts of lots of people around the world to teach us the same thing at the same time.
Jake wrote a post about this last week. I had a conversation last week about this sort of thing with Chuck McKnight, and now you are writing a post about it, and it seems that everywhere I turn people are having similar ideas and thoughts.
I look forward to reading what you write on this topic!
I think you may be right. I’ve been amazed by how many Christians are wrestling with these same issues, despite the fact that very often we are coming at them from entirely different backgrounds.
This is the approach Paul took on Mars Hill.
I’ve read these ideas in a book titled “Theology for the Third Millineum” or some similar title. I’ll try to dig that up.
Truth IS truth, no matter where you find it
The issue here is one of degree only. Nobody, least of all me, is accusing Jeremy of anything….so please Jeremy don’t think that. But I do think that it is strange to seek after the Spirit of God in the works of authors other than the one book we know the Spirit wrote…why do that? Why get a Buick manual when you are seeking to understand a Lexus…it just makes sense to go where the truth is reliable and plentiful rather than risk falling into error…that was my point at the beiginning of all this. Richardson years ago wrote “Eternity in thier Hearts” where he discovers that the Holy Spirit has left clues wherever He has been, which is everywhere….but the clues are all judged by the handbook which is the Bible.
Affirming truths in other religions opens a door to share how Jesus fulfills all the longings left unmet and fills the gaps that beg to be filled.
Great first post for the series, Jeremy! Yes, the Spirit of God has placed within us all (or at lest most of us), a desire, a hunger for relationship with Him. Throughout time, throughout the world, people have been searching for that relationship. Why would the Spirit not whisper to people throughout the world? Would we not expect them to write down what they think they have heard, what they have dreamed, what they have thought?
Mixed among their thoughts, their writing, we often find truth. Of course we often find their own imaginings. And some would say we find what they heard whispered by something other than the Spirit. Isn’t it interesting to read what they have written?
And yet, should we conclude that all they have written is truth? – I think not. Truth may lie among their words, but all their words are not truth. They have searched for Him, but many have not found Him.
We who follow Jesus believe that He is the truth, and that the Scriptures testify of Him. He is the way. He is life. He is love. All others are less than Him.
Some searched, but ended up at another destination. We found He who is life. Yes, but we can also understand that that others too have searched, but found something that was not Him.
Regarding some of the comments on this post and on other past posts, I measure what those who claim to follow Jesus and trust in the written word, write or say by Paul’s measure “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.” Is that what is displayed in any particular comment, or am I reading something else in the comment?
If I am not reading love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness an self-control, but rather discord, dissensions, envy, hatred, jealousy, fits of rage and the like, then I follow Paul’s understanding of what that stems from. If anyone is wondering what that might be, read Galatians 5:16 through the end of the chapter.
Thanks, Sam! Yes, I agree. I am not saying that everything written in those other texts are fully true. As you point out, truth may be among the words, all their words are not truth. Absolutely right!
I believe the very people who are afraid the rest of us are so weak minded we’l wander off into a labyrinth of false teachings are the VERY ONES who misunderstand what you wrote. Yes the Bible is my plumb line of Truth, but as you said it’s God’s heart to want all cultures and peoples in the world to come close enough to hear His heart. There are such a variety of ways of thinking; for example Eastern thinking is nothing like the way we westerners think. Who is to say that someone in the mountains near the North Pole is not hearing from God and understanding God in a way the rest of us have not conceived of. Would God, the creator of not only THIS universe but probably trillions of OTHERS, want us to be so closed up, so fearful of THINKING outside the ‘box’ that we never ask questions? Just as we have faith in God, in Jesus, and the Holy Spirit so also has God faith in US who LOVE Him. We are His sheep who hear His voice and will NOT follow another, but there is one comment by Jesus that for years has made me think along the lines of what you’ve written. I don’t have the verse in front of me this minute, but Jesus said He has sheep in other sheepfolds to whom He must go. That one comment that He didn’t elaborate on has always fascinated me. As most of us know there are the Big Flood stories in every continent. I’m looking forward to reading the book you mentioned. †
TyLa,
Good points. There is a large swath of Christianity that thinks that if Christians don’t have “qualified teachers” around them (with the appropriate titles and letters after their names) that Christians will wander off into error. My experience is that most error comes from those with the titles and the letters after their name, not from Christians living in community with each other and learning the Word of God.
Certainly, error can creep in no matter what the setting, but we must trust the Holy Spirit to guide our feet into the path of truth.
Excellent article Jeremy. I’ve been thinking along this line for many years. I like the phrase ‘to Rightly divide the word’. I see the Bible as a combination of divine inspiration and human interpretation. We need the Holy Spirit to enlighten us as to what’s for us and what’s not. After all He is to lead us into all Truth. I agree with Jeff that we need to honour the Living Word of God, the Divine Logos John alludes to in the opening verses of his gospel account. Too many Christians idolise the Bible, almost elevating it to part of the Trinity. We need to read and consider what it says, not worship it.
Thanks, Robin! In recent months I have been hearing lots of people refer to the Bible as a “library” of books. Is that a phrase you would be comfortable with?
Well said Robin 😉
The heresy that is _The Perennial Philosophy_.
Yet, if the code of morality is congruent with Christian morality, and easier to understand, and apply than, say, the Ten Commandments (either version), to things that simply did not exist 2,000+ years ago, then whynot utilize it?
Ponder upon the use of GMO products. It is much simpler to use either Daoist ethics, or Bhuddist ethics to explain why they are not permissable, than either the New Testament, or the Tanakh.
“I have much more to say to you. More than you can possibly bear….”
~Shakespeare
I have not read through all the comments so maybe I am repeating things here. I do believe that God reveals Himself outside of the bible. The bible itself says that it is the Spirit that guides us into truth. What I want to add though is that I think this statement is incorrect,
“I think it is not too much to say that all religious writings derive in some way or another from people listening to what God whispers to their spirit”
I say that simply because the whispers we hear could have any of a multitude of origins all claiming to be from God. From false prophets, to the devil, to well meaning friends or pastors. Sometimes it is the little bit of truth within a lie that ensnares us. But otherwise I am with you, if something points to Jesus or to smaller truths and it is not in scripture it may be inspired by God. He meets people where they are and works through various means.
Wesley,
Right. Absolutely true. The writings of other religions are an odd mix of truth that is “God’s truth” and a bunch of error from a variety of sources. Thank you for the clarification.
Here’s a curious narrative where truth is revealed. I’m often entertained by the hermeneutical contortions it creates.
Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.
And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.
And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.
And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.
And the woman came unto Saul, and saw that he was sore troubled, and said unto him, Behold, thine handmaid hath obeyed thy voice, and I have put my life in my hand, and have hearkened unto thy words which thou spakest unto me.
Now therefore, I pray thee, hearken thou also unto the voice of thine handmaid, and let me set a morsel of bread before thee; and eat, that thou mayest have strength, when thou goest on thy way.
But he refused, and said, I will not eat. But his servants, together with the woman, compelled him; and he hearkened unto their voice. So he arose from the earth, and sat upon the bed.
And the woman had a fat calf in the house; and she hasted, and killed it, and took flour, and kneaded it, and did bake unleavened bread thereof:
And she brought it before Saul, and before his servants; and they did eat. Then they rose up, and went away that night.
You notice that Saul neither hears, nor sees Samuel?
The reaction of the witch is that something unexpected happened, but she went on with her act.
Self-fulfilling prophecy?
If you go to that much trouble, why ignore the advce that is given?
Saul had been removing those with familiar spirits (demons) for years but when God forsook him for taking the best of Amalek (Agag their King) and their live stock….Saul turned away from God altogether and went after demons. (Samuel was raised up in the resulting seance but you will note that the Medium was shocked, this was not the ordinary entity she was used to dealing with) And Samuel proclaimed Saul’s doom from God. He would die in the upcoming battle and go to his place…Hell. This is the danger, by the way, of seeking out “truth” in other than the Lord’s way, through the Lord’s Word. When we try to take the “best” of the world…their religions…we turn to “the author of confusion” and take on Amalek, the best of the worst. It leads to deeper confusion, perhaps even to the depths that Saul plummeted…into familiar spirits and mediumship…the dangerous shoals of the occult. Such is Theosophy, Rosicrucianism, and the New Age in general.
Reading the comments shows how we have turned relationship with God into a mental proposition. It’s all about knowledge, and if my argument trumps yours, then I have truth and you don’t. In the kingdom of God, those who are most aggressive with their “truth” are usually the farthest from the kingdom. You can see it by their lack of love, and yes, the kingdom is a kingdom of love. That being said, it seems to me that revelation is a spiritual thing; not a mental thing. God’s spirit connects with a man’s spirit revealing himself to him on a level unfamiliar to the mind. The spirit of a man senses spiritual things differently from his other senses, but the thing that is the same is that his mind processes these sensations into thoughts. When God reveals himself, the mind categorizes and interprets what his spirit is experiencing. This is where we attempt to take subjective impulses and transform them into objective thoughts. This transformation can be fallible, and is the step in the process where we can get it wrong because the mind interprets through grids of past experience, past thinking, and past knowledge. When God reveals himself to the spirit of a man, it can be hard to recognize and accept because we either ignore it, having been trained that revelation is a mental exercise, or we try to fit it into categories of “accepted truth” thus distorting the revelation. Does this mean there is no hope for getting revelation right? No, but maybe it’s more of a process of holding onto beliefs with an open hand and being open to allowing God to slowly untangle truth from untruth instead of being closed minded because we have determined truth through our own mental efforts.
Kent,
I like what you say: “In the kingdom of God, those who are most aggressive with their “truth” are usually the farthest from the kingdom.”
I still spend a lot of time in the mental side of things, but am slowly learning that living in love is where life is truly at.
Heretic? No I don’t think so. I think it poses an interesting question. But there may be several reasons why there is a common theme is these writings. If you take the biblical view in the orgin and development of mankind then a common root with common history already exists. It would be logical then to presume that common life stories would exist around some common themes. This transference through history could equate to this perception of inspired works but could also only mean that the inspiration at one point was there as God interacted on lives of the time. Another thought I have is maybe through transference of ideas in past history, the insights from one can be transferred to another yet while they are at an orgin of inspiration that same inspiration was not directly transferred to the individual writing an “inspired work”. My last thought is that even satan and his followers are aware of God and His precepts. By their sharing of close truths, not full truths, small deceptions can begin. Jeremy I enjoy your challenging view and encourage your sharing of thoughts. I look forward to reading more and challenging my own thoughts and beliefs. Thanks
Thanks, Kevin.
I like your idea about the transference of inspired ideas. I think this very well could account for many of the religious writings. As we know, some of the Bible was an oral tradition before it was ever written down, and so maybe these other religious writings are twisted traditions of the original inspired oral tradition.
Anyway, good thoughts!
Jeremy,
Thank you for this writing and others you have done that push our thinking. There are some mean comments on here and I feel like people are trying to defend God. I don’t understand that. If the Holy Spirit lives inside me and I am inspired to write down something I feel God revealed to me, should I be the one to take total credit for that? I am not saying it is inerrant like the Bible, but to say God is not in it would be a lie. I have been blessed by so many teachings on the Bible, from books to blogs to commentaries, that I would not dare say they were NOT inspired by God. Inerrant, no; inspired, definitely.
I really do enjoy this blog and it helps me to think outside the box that I put God in for so long.
Ragan,
Thank you. I know that you are thinking through a lot of things, and are struggling with some good questions. Keep asking and keep seeking! Know that even if you cannot find all the answers, Jesus still loves you and is with you.
I would agree that God “whispers” to many and has for all generations so inspiration from God is true. I say He yells sometimes. But that has been in my life. Lol. As this applies to inspired writings since God has and can inspire many then yes the possibility exists. To the extent as to be biblical is a question. The uniformity of Gods inpsiration is a prime consideration. But I am not a biblical scholar just a life long follower, disciple of Christ. I know I have learned and been inspired from many writings of other followers of Christ. But each time that inspiration points or puts me back to Gods presence.
Yep, I think the main point of “inspiration” is to point us to Jesus. It might be more accurate to say the Bible is “inspiring.”
Every fiber of my being says that you are right about this “whispering”, especially because of the fantastical amount of inspired writing by non-traditional individuals. They climb mountains, express joy, lead productive and gracious lives. Ancient eastern text reveals wisdom that us western folk would do well to explore. I never thought God was restricted, but rather alive in everything.
Thanks, Lauren. I am glad to hear that others are thinking in similar directions.
Well now, you’ve gone and opened up a can of worms haven’t you?!
The question that you ponder, does God whisper to others outside the reach of the gospel, to write down their own scriptures or letters… are there not stories of those who have been in that very situation? I have heard a story of Jesus appearing to a Muslim man while he was in a Muslim prison. You don’t suppose that there was a Gideon Bible tucked in his night stand do ya? No? This man was an expert in the Quran by the way. Anyhoo, after repenting of his many sins in Jesus’ awesome presence, a Bible was miraculously given to him, and he devoured it from cover to cover many times. As you can see, even though he was heavily guarded in a Satanic country, Jesus was still able to get him a Bible.
There is nothing wrong with questioning ones’ faith. I know I did. There’s nothing wrong with researching other religious writings. I know I do. However, these writings are not inspired by God – AT ALL. Sure, Satan quotes Scripture….more like misquotes it, or takes it out of context, right? Half-truths are dangerous, that’s why God’s word separates the sheep from the goats, but but even so, wolves use it to clothe themselves with fleece, don’t they? While other religious writings have genuine contradictions, the Bible has paradoxes. While others have falsehood mixed with some truth, the Bible has absolute truth given through written laws, prophecies, symbolic visions, poetry, proverbs, historical facts, and gospel letters.
My point is that faith comes by hearing (preaching), and hearing (preaching) by the word of God (The Bible/Scripture). Jesus will get a worker to witness the gospel to a hungry soul, and/or a bible into the hands of someone who needs and wants it, so there is no need to rewrite what is already written.
The fathers of the faith so-called, in the few centuries after the death of the apostles thought as you did. Instead of keeping the Word of God separate, they mixed biblical truth with the ideas of the world’s unsaved classical philosophers of Greece. Thus NeoPlatonism was birthed, a devilish mixture of theological doctrines composed of elements of philosophical Platonism and Aristotelianism and oriental mysticism. Yes, all because they thought they saw in the secular writings of Grecian idolaters, some truth that they reasoned, must have come from God. They committed the sin of syncretism, which is doctrinal compromise, and all compromise is of the Devil.
Paul tells Timothy, via the inspiration of the Holy Spirit: “Remind them (faithful teachers) of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers…but avoid profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.” He also told Timothy to avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. Yes, that is definitely what we have here, wouldn’t you say?
What I find amusing about people fighting tooth and nail about the Bible being the only source of inspired truth, is the fact that they themselves are defending a harmful fallacy about the doctrines of pre-believers being doomed to eternal separation from God.
King James didn’t do us any favors, yet it seems that folks are following him… not seeing the Truth in God’s plan of restoration. Today’s bibles are twisted with half-truths. Go ahead and defend them, folks, but they’re not inerrant. One must know or study Greek and Hebrew in depth and use great caution with today’s translations as much as with other writings.
I was taught wrong doctrines in my childhood and it is wise to question and search.
Thanks Jeremy, blog on!
I think that this post gives too much credit to man. It was mentioned in this blog post, that man is seeking God through natural revelation and such. We know that not one single person ever desires to seek after God in a real way, until they have been made alive, made new, and been given a new heart. I think that God always substantiates His previous revelation before He made new revelation. That is to say that, every time God revealed Himself to people, that His next revelation was in accordance with His previous one(s). God revealed Himself to Adam and Eve in the garden. Then He revealed Himself to Noah. Noah knew that this was the God of creation; the God on Genesis 1. God then revealed Himself to Abraham. Abraham knew that this was the God of Noah and of Genesis 1. And so on and so on. I don’t thin that we can say that God reveals Himself to people without them knowing of His prior revelations. The point of Rahab and any others, is not that God revealed Himself to Gentiles who had no knowledge of Judaism, but is that God does discriminate as He gives salvation to sinners. Jews and Gentiles alike receive His salvation.
We have no other knowledge of the story of Rahab, and I think that it is dangerous to assume that God revealed, or “whispered” to her, Himself outside of her knowledge of His previous revelations. In fact, it is probably better to assume that Rahab, although a Gentile, had knowledge of the God of Israel. This then does not force us to believe that God reveals Himself or whispers to other people, who have not already heard of His previous revelations. I think that it is biblically inconsistent, dangerous, and unwarranted to think such things. We also error in thinking that God is so loving, that He will break biblical customs, to accommodate those who “haven’t heard of Him.” We forget that God owes us nothing. Not the breath in our lungs, or even the opportunity to hear the gospel. We have sinned, and the wages is death. No one is innocent. No one deserves anything other than judgement. It is hard to hear and say, but we must not wander from Scripture. I was spending time with the Lord this morning in the Scriptures and read Proverbs and came across some hard verses: “The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord, But the prayer of the upright is His delight.” -Proverbs 15:8 “The Lord has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.” -Proverbs 16:4
I think we go outside the biblical boundaries when suggesting things like God revealing Himself to those who have no knowledge of His previous revelations. God does not whisper to others of different religions who have no knowledge of the Old and New Testaments. If these religions carry any similarities between Christianity, it is likely because Satan, the angel of light (2 Cor 11:14), has perverted God’s Word. Just as in the garden, he did openly reject God as God and attempt to dismantle the sovereignty of God, he simply attempted to twist God’s word. The similarities that these other religions possess are nothing less than Satan’s handiwork. For no one seeks God (Rom 3:10-18) and God does not reveal Himself without making His previous revelations (OT and NT) known first.
You said, “God does not whisper to others of different religions who have no knowledge of the Old and New Testaments.”
So prior to the existence of the Old and New Testaments, God did not reveal truth to anyone?
Sorry, I was not motivated to read all 70 comments before posting, but I then read some after I posted the comment and found that my post had already been addressed.
“You make a great point there at the end about truth being able to come from other sources. That is all I was trying to say.” “I like your idea about the transference of inspired ideas. I think this very well could account for many of the religious writings. As we know, some of the Bible was an oral tradition before it was ever written down, and so maybe these other religious writings are twisted traditions of the original inspired oral tradition.
Anyway, good thoughts! -Jeremy.
I don’t know if we are actually on the same page, but I think we are. I think that that any truth derived from any other religion, has not actually originated with them. If there is truth found in other religions, it has simply been brought over, or “transferred” from God’s true revelation in the Scriptures. God must first reveal truth, then and only then, can Satan twist it, or “transfer” it to another religion. Then when God reveals something else, it is always in succession with His previous revelations and accords with it perfectly, so that no one can today receive revelation from God when they do not already possess knowledge of His previous revelations.
It is good to listen to other “sources” who speak truth. As Terry said, the Bible is the measuring rod to test what is spoken. If the Lord uses an unbeliever to speak truth into our life, so be it. Lets just remember that these other “sources” are not in contrast to God’s Word, they are simply reiterating it. There is no truth that an unbeliever can say, that isn’t already said in the Bible. Just because God uses an unbeliever to emphasize a point of truth already stated and confirmed in His Scripture, does not mean that this unbeliever is a source of truth or is hearing from God. God may use an unbeliever to emphasize His majesty, or He may use a believer, or simply the Holy Spirit. That does not change the origin of the truth. ….. 🙂 ….
Hello,
Love your reasoning.
Would you be interested in doing a Google hangout with myself and hopefully another brotha I found? I know for a fact we are supposed to interact.
That might be fun. Tell me more.
Are you involved on Google plus at all? It’s a very good tool to communicate ideas to communities who are searching. https://plus.google.com/+DreasSanchez
contact me 🙂
I ABSOLUTELY LOVE your position!! It is in line with my thinking and the research and quiet time with Heavenly Fathrr to affirm it.
I think you have gone too far with this article. It is almost entirely speculative and distracts from the NT imperative to preach the gospel and to the responsibility of everyone everywhere to repent and believe in Jesus. It has no practical relevance and can only undermine the uniqueness of the Christian message which is for all people everywhere.
While I have been very much in agreement with many of your posts, I must disagree strongly with this one. It seems to be based primarily on speculation that can only undermine the uniqueness of the gospel message for today. Concerning the OT, you ask “Did God only whisper truth to these few people who lived in a tiny section of the world for such a brief period of time?” That is an astonishing question. The OT has been available to millions and millions throughout history and serves as the foundational evidence for the coming Messiah. Even if one were to grant some special “inspiration” for non-Israelites in ages past, any such inspiriation has been overridden by the gospel for 2000 years. Pointing to other inspiration will no doubt be taken by some as warrant to question the exclusiveness of the Christian message. I believe your idea is clearly refuted in Acts 17:30-31 (ESV):
“The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
Jeremy, I don’t know if this would be written any different in the original Greek manuscript, but take a look at how the KJV Bible states the following:
2Tim 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
What are we usually told about italics or parentheses in the text? That those words were added for better understanding?
How would the above verse read without the [is]? All scripture given by inspiration of God, profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and instruction in righteousness?
One such little word, if it is even in the original varies the interpretation vastly. Without the added [is] it could even say that all (or any) writings given by inspiration of God are profitable in the instruction to righteousness, and that would open up the wisdom beyond just the pages of the Bible. I know that thought frightens a lot of people, but we need to get over the fear.
I think that this could be correct. Gods hand was at work in a special way in Israel with his chosen people but still gave a conscience to all people. Therefore they could think the same as the writers of the Bible and come to the same conclusions. This doesn’t mean that other writings were “God breathed” in the way of scripture but if they are a different way of saying what is in the Bible then can still be correct, even if they are not directly God breathed.
I LOVE THIS!
The first question I had as a brand new Christian in a bible study was, “WHY DID THEY WRITE A NEW TESTAMENT? WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE OLD ONE?” I didn’t find God in the church. I found him in a parking lot. I had had everything. A business with 22 employees, a husband, two children, but no God. I lost it all. I was homeless for many years. I started hearing God whispering to me when I was at my lowest low. The most alone in my life . But not like voices in my head like someone pushing a shopping cart often has. They would like you said , whisperings. Not really voices. Just something that would resonate in my mind. Sometimes in directions that seemed odd and meaningless. But following those directions would work out to something for my benefit. And in a way that I couldn’t have planned. They were not my thoughts. As I look back I see how every one of those seemingly insignificant actions I did became a series of events that step by step , got me to where I am today. Healed mind and body with no ache in my soul. As my relationship with God grew, so did my questions. I started going to church to find some answers . So often I found the answers we’re different upon interpretation. And so often I found verses were used only in part. The message is missed in the splitting of hairs of words too. Sometimes I say spirituality would be a lot better if people took religion out of it. It is so obvious when you read the Bible that times changed and even instruction in the Bible changed from Moses to Jesus. The New Testament! If human nature wasn’t to condemn change, if we listened louder, with our spirit, our hearts and not our ears, we could have a NEWEST TESTAMENT💠
This is the exact issue I am wrestling with and you present the argument for universal knowledge in a clear manner while also acknowledging the uniqueness of Christ and Christianity.
if all is, therefore I am. it is man who decided what was canon. it was man who saw yeshua as something false till he wasn’t. and it is still man today who tries to decide that no one can hear God, and if you do somehow you are a false prophet. but all the things I have read and the moments I have had while reading various scriptures from all religions can not be taken from me by man. gods name is I AM. what does that mean to you. what you say is not evil at all. God gave us minds for a reason, the things he has shown me do not contradict the bible. only support it further. all things come from I AM, and I AM is all things. Jesus was the song of God, but we are all children of the Lord. Jesus knew it even more so because of his faith and his travels. he listened when he was spoken to. all religions may not say 100% the same thing. but in all of them there is a 1 all powerful. when you deny possibility you deny the lord. the bible was written the way it is not just because it is the only truth. but because it is to keep people inline and try to give them a simple path to salvation. but the meanings are far more deep than that. do not sway your faith in the lord, but do all you can to understand more deeply and intimately. pray to I AM for guidance and wisdom, if something doesn’t seem right or seems contradictory then pray on it and ask for the guidance needed to understand. yeshua wanted you not to just sit and worship him and that be the end to your spiritual journey. he wanted you to live by his guidance and gain the faith needed to understand his words and intentions. end the ignorance and hate. bring love and kindness to the forefront of your mind. know thine self so you may learn who the lord truly is. all things are and are not. simplicity comes from grand complexity
This makes me think of the account in Bruchko where the tribal people he encounters had a “prophecy” that some day a man with talking banana leaves would come to tell them about God and how to please God. When they saw the pages of Bruchko’s Bible (the foretold banana leaves) and knew that it “spoke” to him (the writing on the page had meaning), they were eager to listen to the fulfillment of this prophecy so they could know God.
Yes, I do think God in His infinite love, grace and mercy that we cannot even begin to understand the scope of, has whispered of Himself to many people outside the Bible.
Very Insightful post. And nice that you have come to this very logical conclusion. You might want to look into the origin of the Book of Mormon, another Testament of Christ. Just as the Bible was written by prophets inspired of God in the Middle East, The Book of Mormon was written by prophets, inspired by God in the Americas. The most important part of the book is 3 Nephi, where Christ himself appears to the people in the Americas after his resurrection. They touch the wounds in his hands and feet and side. They witness that he is the divine Son of God.
I have long believed that all religions began with inspiration. I think most just took generations to get things written down, and by that time many of the plain and precious original truths were lost. There are so many similarities, as you have pointed out, that we cannot deny the possibility that they all began the same way, and that the differences now are corruptions due to time, human error, and evil influences.
Christianity is the only world religion with two books of eye-witness testimony, proclaiming Jesus Christ as the Son of God. The Book of Mormon supports the truth in the Bible, that Jesus Christ was not just a Holy teacher or a prophet. He is the divine Son of God and the Saviour and redeemer of the world!