I have tried to avoid this question for a long time… But recently a reader wrote in asking what I believe about predestination, and since I have written about other difficult “-ation” questions (such as masturbation), I decided to answer this question about predestination as well.
Here is the straightforward question on predestination that the reader submitted:
Whats your stand on predestination?
Whew!
I am hesitant to tackle this topic. Here’s why:
My Previous Experience with Predestination
I once preached a sermon on predestination and election, and there was a Calvinistic man in the church who, right in the middle of my sermon, stood up, and loudly said to his family, “Come on. We’re leaving!” He and his family filed out of their row, out the back of the church, and never returned. I later called him to find out why he left, and he accused me of being a heretic.
This seems to be a recurring theme in my life … and here … and here
Anyway, I sometimes hesitate to write about such controversial topics because I don’t want to chase away readers.
But know this: I hold my view on predestination lightly. I hold it with an open hand. If you want to disagree, that’s fine by me. I won’t hold it against you. Of course, if you want to hold my view against me, well, I think that says something about your view …
Know this also: I used to be a strong 5-point hyper Calvinist. But I did not abandon Calvinism lightly. I got dragged out of it kicking and screaming. So don’t think that the reason I am not a Calvinist is that I don’t know the arguments or “haven’t read the Bible.” Sigh. I am aware of the arguments (I used to teach them myself). I am aware of the Bible passages used to defend Calvinism (I just understand them differently now).
All this is to say, if you want to disagree, that’s fine. But please, be gracious. No name calling. No finger pointing. No heresy hunting. No long comments full of Bible quotations.
What I believe about Predestination
I’ll be as blunt and straightforward as I know how: I do not believe that God predestines some people to go to heaven.
I definitely do not believe in double predestination, where God predestines some people to go to heaven and predestines others to go to hell. I used to believe this (that’s part of the “hyper” in hyper Calvinism), but no longer.
While a complete study on the topic of predestination would also require a study of God’s sovereignty, human free will, sin, and all the passages on election in the Bible, this is a blog post, and I cannot get into all that now (though a book is in the works!) In this short post, I just want to briefly present my views on predestination itself.
I believe that predestination does not refer to God’s choice of which people get to go to heaven, but refers instead to God’s determination to bring into glory all those who receive eternal life by faith in Jesus. In other words, predestination teaches us about who gets glorified, not who gets justified.
God’s predetermined (this is a synonym for predestination) plan was that He would bring into glory everyone who believed in Jesus for eternal life, that is, for justification. All who are justified will be glorified. As such, there is absolutely nothing in predestination about God’s choice of which people will get justified and which people will not. Predestination has nothing to do with that, and it is a categorical mistake to think it does.
To put it another way, predestination is about the destiny of believers (all will be glorified), not about the destiny of unbelievers (some will get justified and some will get damned).
Or to put it another way again, discussion about God’s predestination should not fall under the category of justification, but under the categories of sanctification and glorification. Predestination is a discipleship issue; not an evangelism issue.
Passages about Predestination
Two of the key passages about predestination are Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:4-11. In both cases, Paul is pretty clear that predestination is about God bringing people to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29), and that election and predestination are most properly understood in connection with being made holy and blameless before God (Ephesians 1:4-5).
God does not choose some to be in Christ while passing over the rest. No, God chooses, elects, predestines, predetermines, decides, foreordains, commits Himself to make sure that every person who believes in Jesus for eternal life, will finally and ultimately be glorified into the image and likeness of Jesus Christ.
Predestination of the saints is about God’s commitment to the preservation of the saints.
This is why no one can snatch us out of the Father’s hand (John 10:29), why nothing can separate us from the love of God (Romans 8:38-39), and why God has given us the Holy Spirit as a promise and guarantee of our inheritance (Ephesians 1:13-14).
Predestination is a controversial topic, but it need not be. The Bible teaches that predestination is about our glorification and sanctification; not about justification. Therefore, if we fight about predestination, we are not living according to what we were predestined for, namely, to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
Now seriously, this isn’t too controversial, is it? Nothing to walk out over, right? Well, let me know in the comments below!
I’m still here. 😉
Jeremy, as far as I can see you’re spot on with your comments on predestination. (That may be cause for concern!) We are not predestined to become Christians but all Christians are predestined to become “like Jesus”. Quite an amazing statement really!
As far as I can see, all the difficulties (so called) with predestination come about through a mistaken interpretation of a few Bible passages which are then used as the benchmark for all other verses despite the fact that these verses may be saying completely different. Today of all days, it’s good to know that Jesus died for ALL men every where. 🙂
Thanks, Andrew! Have a wonderful Easter Weekend and Resurrection Sunday!
If Jesus died for All men everywhere, then why are All men not saved?
I don’t disagree with any of the post; I guess I’ve always held an Arminian point of view of this stuff (whether I realized it or not). But here’s my struggle: why is it that we find parts of scripture that are so important or so influential and yet so often misread or misunderstood? You would think, if this was God’s inerrant perfect Word, that stuff like this would be more clear; that Paul would make sure to clarify his statements so that people can’t get easily confused. Especially when we have since seen that these controversies have resulted in a litany of violence, hatred, and even killing on both sides of the argument.
And yet there are many issues and teachings in the Bible that are clarified extensively and are aspects upon which nearly all Christians agree. Could it be that these controversial teachings aren’t as important as we think they are? Or perhaps they are important, but not as important as the teachings that are indisputable (Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself).
Whatever the case, the fact that Christians can be so un-Christlike on matters like this or modern issues like homosexuality is a big cause of doubt for me. I love that you “hold loosely” to these ideas; that attitude, in turn, gives me hope.
Like you, Mike, I am frustrated with the misunderstandings and confusion among Christians and the warfare between the (myriads of) camps. I was looking up a verse today that’s meaning hinges on whether it is written in the aorist or present tense…and of course every commentator has a different opinion. I am afraid it depends on which camp they are in as to how they decide if it is aorist or present tense. Otherwise, why wouldn’t it be clear? In this case, I feel it IS important that we understand it correctly … but I agree with you that in many cases the issue is not of primary importance.
I also agree with this explanantion of predestination, Jeremy. It is not one that makes Father God seem cruel and uncaring toward most of His creation as He does in the other explanation I have been taught.
Both of you have a warm time of fellowship and worship with your family this weekend!
Great question, Mike. I often think that one reason for the lack of clarity is to keep us humble and to keep us going to God for help on understanding His Word. If the Word was crystal clear on everything, it would make us less likely to turn to God in prayer. He wants us to have a relationship with him; not just with a book.
Another reason might be that what was clear to Paul and his readers is not clear to us because we are removed so far from the original context by time, geography, language, and culture.
Regardless, it is important to focus on the major themes in Scripture, which seem to be pretty clearly explained, as you point out.
A long time ago I came to the conclusion that if the meaning of a verse was not clear, when translated into toki pona, then any doctrine based on that verse should be thrown out, on the grounds that if it is a core doctrine, it will survive translation into every known language, regardless of how ambigious the language is.
Jeremy,
I repudiate Calvinism; it’s a pernicious doctrine that robs people of spiritual life. That said, I believe that the Bible teaches that everyone is predestined…for heaven.
As you know, I am not a universalist or annihilationist. I see the attraction of both views, but for myself, I am unable to accept them.
Jeremy,
I had hoped you were going to read my book and tell me where you think I’ve got things wrong.
I put it in my stack of books which must be read when I get around to studying hell (Hopefully later this year.) Right now, all my reading time is consumed with trying to understand the other violent texts of the Old Testament.
Jeremy,
I believe you may have landed on the best solution to a 4 century impasse on predestination. Viewing it a discipleship and sanctification/glorification issue rather than a justification issue is so right on target. Now it makes sense in the context of Romans 8, where the focus is on life in the spirit.
Blessings and much aloha,
John Brangenberg
PS I have a PhD in Biblical Studies , so I scrutinize issues of biblical interpretation very carefully. I really appreciate the depth of your insights and your ability to communicate difficult topics in everyday language !
John,
High praise! I don’t think I came up with this view myself, so I won’t take credit. I am trying to remember where I learned it. As I am sure you know, you read books and study issues, and then later, when you write on a topic, you cannot recall where or when you read the books and articles which helped influence your view.
I hope to write more on this topic in the future so that the pertinent biblical texts can receive a fuller treatment and better explanation than what I have provided here.
If you teach that people can only choose heaven when God enables them to, and it is God Himself who makes the decision not to enable the doomed to go to heaven, then in fact He does choose some people for Gehenna. So if God predestines one group, then by default He predestines the other.
The doctrine of predestination makes God unloving. If a person motors a boat past a drowning man but does not rescue him even though he could have done so, we would say the man in the boat was unloving. Similarly, if God saves only those He chooses and leaves the rest to Gehenna even though He could have saved them, then that makes God unloving.
Emilio,
I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing. If you are disagreeing, I think maybe you have not understood my perspective on predestination. Maybe you are just adding your own insight?
I am just making a statement about predestination. I do not believe God can predestine people and still be a loving God.
I agree!
I have come to a conclusion I’ve never sen expressed elsewhere.
Most people of the Arminian persuadion believe th Bible says our names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life when we repent of our sins & accept Jesus’ sacrificial death as our salvation.
Calvinist’s refute that by quoting the scripture that says those prdestined for eternal salvation had their names written in the Book of Lif before the foundation of the earth.
There is no scripture that says anything that indicates anyone’s name was ever written in the Book of Life at any time during their lives for any reason, o it seems the Arminians got that wrong.
However, there are verses that say certain sins will result in names being blotted out of the Book of Life. If the Book of Life represents eternal salvation, how can this be?
Could it be that everyone destined to be born are the names that were written in the Book of Life? Are we “born saved?” Tha would certainly erase any fear of any infant ever being being “lost.” It would also settle the question of “those who never heard Christ preached.”
So, here we have a planet full of people who were “born saved.” If, from an early age, some people do respond to the Holy Spirit and walk with God, though imperfectly, that fellowship continues. Usually we are overwhelmed by our fallen culture & forget how to listen. We end up making elfish choices. We are abused & broken. Some choose paths that are so in conflict with Kingdom values, their very presence would either pollute the Kingdom or the holiness of the Kingdom would obliterate everything that was of an alien nature to the peace and joy of Kingdom life.
We need an opportunity for redemption & healing. Jesus offers through his death. A new birth. A fresh start.
Still, we can never judge, at any point, whether anyone is blotted out. Because God exists outside of time, he already knows the outcome. He predestined all of us to be born & wrote our names in he book of life. He predestined us to have a second chance if we, like Adam & Eve, blow our first opportunity and hand our inheritance over to Lucifer.
If we approached everyone we meet as “born saved” brothers & sisters, we would be able to evangelize more fruitfully. Reminding people of their family standing and modeling a “seeking & knocking” lifestyle before them is more likely to influence them to turn to God as Father than if we introduce him as their judge.
We overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb & the word of our testimony, not by judging & condemning. Sharing how I live in communication with God & how he guides & helps me bears fruit. Others begin to try “knocking” themselves when they realize it’s ok to do so.
Another tool we have with those who are not yet awakened to their divine heritage is prophecy. As God reveals things to us about individuals & their needs, we can casually or seriously share these things with them. Revelation of hidden things that are harming them leaves them with a sense of awe & wonder, that God cares enough to point it out, for their healing. Sometimes this may include advance notice of an upcoming crisis, & reassurance that God is woth them. Of course, treating them as chosen siblings instead of condemned criminals makes them far more likely to receive you.
Other forms of ministry occur as we use whatever natural & spiritual gifts we’ve received to bless them, without condemnation.
For those who will not receive this ministry, their path to rebirth will be far more painful, if they do choose that path at all. Often, they will choose the path that leads to their name finally being blotted out of the Book of Life. But I don’t think the child who hides from Mama or sneaks a cookie from the cookie jar is eligible for this “blotting” to occur & “evangelism” messages that paint God as such a monster are NOT good news.
Perhaps I think this is a unique view because I don’t “get out much” 😀 but as I comb the scriptures looking for answers, this is what I’ve gleaned. My theories are ALWAYS a work in progress, as I’m always learning somerhing new.
Just something to look at, Robyn. The Lamb’s Book of Life was part of the Mosaic dispensation, the kairos of preparation for the New Covenant dispensation. It was for the Hebrew nation through whom the Messiah would come. Names were not pre-written in it, but as time went on – throughout the OT history God continuously sent prophets to call the stiffnecked nation to repentance and turning from their wicked ways.
Because God made the human being in His own image, the Calvinistic predestination doctrine implies that God decided to make a living being in His own image, of which he would beforehand already reject and condemn part? This condemned part would not have any choice in accepting or denying their Creator. In addition, one cannot realistically read that the human was commanded to subdue the earth and not understand the presence of a free will to make decisions in the process. There are only two ways to get out of this corner. One is to philosophise yourself out of it and read into the Scriptures what it does not say. The other is to follow that easy route of religious tradition, declaring that it is not for us to understand; we simply need to accept that it is so.
I was under the impression that Jesus is the Lamb. Is the “Lamb’s Book of Life” mentioned in the Old Testament?
I actually feel I’m making progress peeling away all the doctrines that keep me from seeing what the Bible actually says. I’m trying to toss word definitions that over 2000 years of Christianity has accumulated & not read through traditional lenses. This is a complicated task, and I’m not clinging to any cherished doctrine or preconceived ideas. It’s kind of scary, but I know I’m in good hands.
I do not, and never have believed in the Calvinist doctrine of predestination, so that is not an issue for me. I’m not trying to find a way out of that.
I do not believe ANYONE is born condemned to eternal damnation. We are all born predestined to potentially be full sons & daughters of God. I did not say we are born flawless; I do believe we are not born condemned.
For those who walk on error or innocence, prevenient grace is still working to draw them toward a fuller revelation of truth.
Interestingly, I have met people with little to no religious training who seem to have a more balanced view of God than we indoctrinated ones.
I’m still digging, studying, seeking & finding. My 20 year old self would die of fear & shock if she could see me at 52. I would try to gently point out that I had 32 more years of experience in the word than she, & shed a tear for the trials I knew she soon would face… beginning the journey to become less certain of WHAT I know & fare more certain of WHO I know.
When what I think I know conflicts with WHO I know, I must keep seeking.
Hello again Robyn. I know exactly what you are experiencing for that is what my wife and I have been doing for the past 7 years or so. The difference is that we were already going into our sixties then – much more tradition baggage to overcome. It is not an easy road, as Jeremy has also been pointing out. We grew up in the Calvinistic reformed tradition, but undertook a journey through the Pentecostal and Charismatic worlds in our fifties.
Without writing too much detail here: See, for example Dan 12:1 on the book in which Daniel’s people (the Jews) have been written. Rev 21:27 specifies it as the Lamb’s book of live and you are right of course, the Lamb is Jesus the Christ. But John 1:1-3 makes it clear: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.
See also Heb 1:2. And in referring to to these I am not trying to string something together to find a truth, but I’m trying to let the Scripture interpret Scripture. Rev. 13:8 describes the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 17:8 notes that names were written in the book from (not at) the foundation of the world (kosmos or humanity). The word ‘from’ as against ‘at’ shows that a process began and continued, whereas ‘at’ would have supported the Calvinistic view.
Hope this helps.
Robyn. I think what you have posted is sound thinking from an honest heart. I, m liking your view very much and it echoes in my thoughts around these matter. Aidan
I think you are headed in the right direction … but might have made a wrong turn somewhere.
I have written some on the Book of Life here: https://redeeminggod.com/getting-blotted-out-of-the-book-of-life/
I don’t necessarily think people are automatically born “saved.” Although do you mean that they have “eternal life” when they are born? I am not sure what you mean by “saved.” See here: https://redeeminggod.com/saved-most-misunderstood-word-bible/
Great job thinking this through!
Thanks, Jeremy.
By “saved,” I do mean “with eternal life.”. I was using ” saved ” in the way evangelical Christians routinely use it.
I rather wish I hadn’t posted my remarks because I know to most readers they will seem far more heretical than I believe they really are. Until we can stop confusing words like “saved’ with ” inherit the Kingdom,” it’s next to impossible to articulate what I really want to say. It’s like trying to communicate across both cultural and language barriers… almost like talking to someone from another galaxy! I’ll follow the links provided. Thanks.
Oh, people probably won’t think they are heretical. You are asking good questions and thinking creatively. I wish more people did these two things.
Recently I have had opportunity to speak with atheists. And I find that very enlightening. They are honest human beings. Agnostic really. But I have shared views along with you in regard to being
” born saved”. Sort of makes sense in light of being “born again”. And the recognition of kingdom. Its rather unusual. If not tragic. To think that we are conditioned to think of little babies being born in sin. There is an element of truth to this but not in the traditional sense. I believe they are born sinless but the world the way it is, they learn to live in sin through conditioning. Its more a fact of life than a moral dillema. My other thought I would like to share with you regards sin itself. My own belief is the only sin that can not be forgiven is “unbelief”. This is purely logical after all. Utterly and purely logical. Without belief everything is poppycock! It’s an obvious conclusion to unbelief. We are in the kingdom after belief. Out of the kingdom before belief. Again. An obvious conclusion. Well obvious to a believer. But not so to the unbeliever unfortunately. It, s frustrating for the believer that others don’t pick up on it. But then the believer was first an unbeliever so this keeps him/her in order. Sorry if that all sounded a bit confusing. Maybe my wording is a bit ehhhhhh swirly. Lol. But I am whom I am. Not who I could be. Your posts excited me because of their honesty and logical good out of the box thinking. This is exactly what the church needs right now. Aidan
Thanks Jeremy. I think you navigated difficult waters very well. As you know I am busy with a specific study on this subject and I will add your post to my literature sources. You have made some points that I have not yet thought about in that way.
As a small contribution to this discussion: One implication of the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination, if it really is what the Bible teaches, is that someone may spend his or her life passionately serving in a full-time church capacity and yet not be one of the elect (and therefore ‘saved’). Let us take it one step further – in terms of this doctrine there could be no assurance that John Calvin, who is credited most for establishing this doctrine in the church, belonged to the elect. Nonsensical? No, for in my files, for example, I have the report of a newspaper interview with a South African theologian and ex-minister in a reformed denomination. He openly rejects the deity of Christ and states that many of his former church colleagues feel the same, but they cannot leave their church position as it is their bread and butter. Research by the Barna group in the United States of America in 2004 found that 49% of Protestant pastors did not have a biblical worldview. Need one say more?
Excellent point about predestination. It is a really tragic by-product of the Calvinistic understanding of election that someone can believe in Jesus, follow Jesus, and serve Jesus their own life, but if they are not elect, it doesn’t matter, they still go to hell. I think most Calvinists would say that such people only had “spurious” or “fake” faith, and that it wasn’t real, but still, how can we ever know then whether we have real faith or fake faith? “By your perseverance in good works!” they say. But even works can give false evidence, and be motivated by selfish desires, and thus be false works!
It is a very dangerous and difficult doctrine, right?
Great post! I have never thought that God would create anyone in his image, and that somehow that someone would have no opportunity whatsoever to love, worship and follow him. That sounds like a plot for a bad sci fi movie. That’s not the god I know.
Ha! It does sound like a plot for a bad sci-fi movie!
Lots of interesting comments but I agree with what you have said Jeremy and those others who have come to agree from a slightly different direction. Maybe doctrine is a starting point to belief not the destination itself. The Jews were locked in to the law, they thought it was their destination but ended up and still is their bondage when it was always meant to lead them into freedom
in the Christ. I regually ask for a revelation for those who are in bondage to doctrine in our Church, but any conversation outside their man made doctrine is met with angry resistance.
Thanks, Clive. Good insight and thank you for seeking always to show others the love of Jesus! You do this so well!
You need to distinguish between Bible doctrine and man-made doctrine or traditions of men. Correct Bible doctrine is essential to understanding how a person is saved and what happens to a person when they are saved; who God is and how they fit into God’s plans. Jesus said the truth sets you free and you know the truth through right Bible doctrine. Paul tells us to “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”. If you don’t know the truth then you are putting yourself into a place of bondage.
BTW predestination has nothing to do with lost people getting saved. It applies to God’s plan for those who have been saved. God never predestined anyone to hell or heaven.
What is Grace? Peter received grace. Did Judas? Did Saul? David did.
What about Esau? Jacob most certainly did.
Thank you for sharing your view on “predestination” – I googled this due to my troubled spirit resulting from having a precious sister in Christ – extremely brilliant student of Biblical theology, etc. – verbally wipe me out with shaking finger in face, followed by multiple disturbing emails just short of accusing me of apostacy due to my view on this doctrine – my view is the same as yours. I’m not brilliant, nor am I a life long student of scripture. But God’s Word is my nourishment for every breath I breathe. When the above=mentioned altercation with my sister in Christ occurred, I turned my grieving heart to God, seeking His answers, His direction. I do know my friend is becoming more and more adhering to the teachings of a certain ministry which although has many good teaching, I have noticed the “hyper-heresy” characteristcs. During this past week, I asked God to grant me understanding of this particular doctrine and your carefully worded view matched what I sensed He was saying to me. Once again, I am in awe of God, who cares so very much for our every concern. So far in my learning walk with God, I’ve found that mankind is prone to confuse, make complex what God has stated clearly, concisely, and cimply. Your post is to me, a confirmation that I’ve “heard” correctly and I can now have peace. Blessings to you – thank you – and please, keep posting your thoughts.
Hello Jeremy, feels like ages since I was here last. I did complete my book on the predestination doctrine and it is a free download on my website. The title is: As A House Built On Sand? Subtitle: Doctrines Of Election And Predestination. Your views on the topic were valuable sources in my search for Biblical truth/realism on the subject.
How can a person know whether he or she is predestined to be saved or not
I cannot begin to explain the hopelessness and confusion I felt after I recently read a 6 part series on Predestination from R C Sproul. Everything I knew about salvation was turned upside down. I wished I had never read it. However, after reading this short blog. I have a renewed hope that there is another understanding of these predestination scriptures. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you. According to the Calvinist, I am not chosen. Because the sin that so easily besets me is a habitual sin, and my heart has not been regenerated. What other kind of sin is there, other than habitual sins. It’s not as though I have a big list of sins that I can cross off each time I commit one. I’m a creature of habit, what can I say. You gave me hope that my please are not like Esau’s (as the Calvinist put it). God will, and did save even me.
my question is why do some people start balling at the hearing of the gospel realizing that it is right and true. immediately turning to repentance while some go there whole lives after hearing the gospel and nothing. Is it because some are more spiritual. because the word is spirit. if some are more spiritual then that would indicate they were made that way. because let’s be real you can’t really change yourself much. you kind of are who you are. I know alot of people like to disagree with that but you cannot learn or try to become more spiritual. it just is or isn’t. so what causes some to come and some to just not want anything to do with it. (especially when it is a descent, nice caring, loving person)
simply and beautifully said. I believe that God predestines everyone to come to know him but because of our free will that may not happen. It doesn’t mean that he decided someone isn’t going to heaven it means the person with their own free will decided that. God will use people to bring other people to their predestined position in Christ but they have to accept that!
I am very impressed with your explanation and appreciate it. Honestly, I don’t care about the Calvinistic or non-Calvinistic theologies. I do care about godly anointing and wisdom given from God…but, hey, that’s just me =) I always thought of predestination as we are all given a boarding pass, but some will miss the flight.