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Good Discipleship ideas for mega churches

By Jeremy Myers
1 Comment

Good Discipleship ideas for mega churches

discipleship for missionSo we’ve seen the two basic models of discipleship and the pros and cons of each. Ideally, there should be a way to blend the two so we keep the positive aspects of each while avoiding the negative.

Here is what Matt Chandler is doing at his church:

Celebrate Change

You must create an air that celebrates life transformation and change.

These things must be championed and celebrated from the stage in the service every single week. Use video and testimony to celebrate growth, transformation, and movement. It cannot be a sermon series once a year. You have to constantly, constantly bang the drum of progressive sanctification. And you MUST celebrate more than just the “miracle.”

Yes, put up the guy who drank and drank and drank, and then came to Christ, and hasn’t desired a drink since. But also, champion the guy who is still raw, who still struggles. You get a guy up there to say, “I’m struggling, but let me tell you where I see God.”

Create On-Ramps

Have lots of “on ramps” and “off ramps.” Make it easy for people to get involved in various ways of spiritual transformation, and make it ways for them to just rest in what they have learned.

Allow times when you just back away from everything, and not try to control things, and just let them sit, rest, and germinate.

Keep Flexible

The mission and end goal is sacred, but nothing else is. Ask yourself: What stirs your affections for Jesus Christ? And what robs you of that affection? Almost all of us have different answers to these questions.

You must be flexible enough not to dictate to the people in your church how they are to grow spiritually. Some read Edwards. Some play the piano. Some go to the graveyard. Some go the art museum. We’ve got to figure out how to give our people freedom to press on toward the Lord.

You can lay some track for them, but you can’t punish people when they deviate off that track.

Be Relational

There needs to be a relational aspect to everything. Everything. Here are some ways to make things relational:

Home groups. You can’t just throw people in a room and have community together. We need to try to help people build community, but it is very, very difficult. If they already have community, encourage them to stay with that group. Tell the older people they have a fishing license, and you are giving them a stocked lake. Tell them to look around and invite a couple over for dinner so they can pour their lives into someone younger. If you try to assign people to relationships, it won’t work.

Recovery ministry. There are lots of “short circuits” that people need help with. Drug. Alcohol. Relationships. Porn. Anger. Eating.

Apply your Teaching. Whatever teaching you do, be heavy on application.

Use Movies. Use film to teach theology. (But get a license to show these films.)

Children and youth. Don’t teach moralism. Don’t teach a fake, external morality. Teach strong doctrine, and then engage the parents in the process. Provide the parents tools to help teach the children. For example, suggest field trips they can take their children on and questions they can ask. If we teach the children at church, and this doesn’t get reinforced at home, all we are teaching our children is to compartmentalize their Church life from the rest of their life.

Be Patient

All of this takes time. Lots of time.

Find mature leaders. Pair them with 2-3 others, and tell them to walk together for 2-3 years intentionally. Then, these people turn around, and disciple 2 or 3 more, while they are still being discipled by those over them. So eventually, everyone is discipling and being discipled.

So, that is a broad-brush overview of what they are trying to do. He said to check back in 20-30 years to see if it worked. Do you have any ideas or suggestions on how we can encourage community while keeping people in the Word?

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Acts 29, Discipleship, Matt Chandler, organic church, relationships

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Two basic discipleship models and their pros and cons

By Jeremy Myers
4 Comments

Two basic discipleship models and their pros and cons

churches need balanceYesterday I introduced the two basic discipleship models. Today, I review the pros and cons of each discipleship model as presented by Matt Chandler.

Pros of the Mechanical-Linear Discipleship Model

  1. There is no better way to disseminate information, and get people to learn Bible and theology.
  2. It has had some historical success.
  3. There are TONS of resources and curriculum.
  4. It’s easy to measure. How many went through all the steps?
  5. It’s easy to motivate people to join and participate.
  6. It lends itself to great theology.

Cons of Mechanical-Linear Discipleship Model

  1. It’s hard to sustain. It starts big, and people fall off every week.
  2. It can lead to coldness.
  3. It lends itself primarily to the mechanical, mathematical, engineering types (which is a good thing) but most others have trouble keeping up.
  4. Such programs have a tendency to become very sacred, and if you later try to stop such programs, people get angry.

Pros of the Organic-Relational Discipleship Model

  1. It seems to yield the greatest results. People stick around when there are authentic communities. If they feel safe, they are much more prone to stick.
  2. It tends to appeal to a broader group of personality types. Most of us are not intellects. But almost all of us are relational. We all long for and want community and relationships. It still allows the intellects to cross-pollinate.

Cons of the Organic-Relational Discipleship Model

  1. We are all sinners. If we are not intentionally maturing, we won’t mature. Maturity doesn’t just happen.
  2. It’s nearly impossible to measure. The only thing you have to count is numbers, and that doesn’t really tell you much.
  3. It’s nearly impossible to control. You get leaders teaching very strange things in their groups.

Curiously, there is a huge schism over these two discipleship models today, and generally, this schism seems to follow along generational lines. Those who are in their 20s and 30s lean more toward the organic model while those over 40 lean heavily on the mechanical. There may be ways to blend the pros of both while avoiding the cons. We’ll look tomorrow at what Matt Chandler is doing in his church, and maybe make a few general suggestions for what other churches can do as well.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Acts 29, Discipleship, Matt Chandler, organic church, relationships

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Matt Chandler on Discipleship

By Jeremy Myers
8 Comments

Matt Chandler on Discipleship

The number one question in most churches today is “How can we properly, adequately, and effectively make disciples?” If this isn’t your church’s number one question, you should probably shut down the church and go read Matthew 28:19-20 again.

This was the topic of Matt Chandler’s session at the Regional Acts 29 Conference I attended recently. In the next three posts, I will review what he said. It parallels exactly what I’ve been thinking for about a year now, which is why it was so exciting.

Two Roads Diverged in the WoodsToday, I will simply introduce in broad brush strokes the two most common methods of making disciples in our churches today. Tomorrow, we will discuss the pros and cons of each, and on Friday, we will present a few ideas for how to take the pros from both approaches and incorporate them into the church while avoiding the cons.

Organic Discipleship

Matt began by pointing out that there are two basic approaches to making disciples in churches today.

The first is relational discipleship (which he called “organic”), where the church encourages people to get together in some sort of home groups where they hang out, develop relationships, and just trust the Holy Spirit to work in their midst bringing them into the knowledge of the truth. They will often have some sort of “designated driver” to lead the group in a particular direction, but often the leader doesn’t really know how to get people “home” or what that “home” is.

This approach tends to generate lots and lots of numerical growth in a church, but very little deep spiritual growth.

Mechanical-Linear Discipleship

Then there is the content-based model of discipleship, which Matt referred to as the “Mechanical-Linear” model. It will often have certain steps and classes that a person has to progress through on the “path” of discipleship. In this approach, discipleship is often equated with learning. There will be notebooks full of notes, classes that people can take, and different levels to aspire to.

This approach does not get the great numbers that the organic approach does, but does give a few people a lot of information and knowledge about the Bible and theology.

During my five years as a pastor, I adopted and leaned heavily upon the Mechanical-linear model. I even spent time in certain sermons and Bible studies to criticize and condemn the Organic model.

Now, three years out of pastoral ministry, and looking at heading back into it through church planting, I have been able to think, reflect, watch, and study these two models at work, and see numerous pros and cons to both.

Tomorrow, I will review the pros and cons of each model that Matt Chandler has seen.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Acts 29, Discipleship, Matt Chandler, Matthew 28:19-20

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Acts 29 with Dr. John Hannah

By Jeremy Myers
9 Comments

Acts 29 with Dr. John Hannah

Acts 29I recently attended a regional Acts29 church planting event. It was the second one I have been to. You can read about the one I attended last year here.

The guest speaker was Dr. John Hannah from Dallas Theological Seminary. He spoke about spiritual formation, and specifically, how to overcome sin in our lives.

A few things he said rang so true in my life that it was like the dawn rising in my life. Below are these things. Matt Chandler spoke as well, which was excellent. Although he is a Calvinist, he may be one of the most creative and thoughtful mega-church pastors of this generation. I will make a post tomorrow about what he said.

But here is some of what Dr. Hannah said:

A Popular Christian Lie

He said, “Someone once told me—and if I could remember who it was I would shoot them—that the longer you are a Christian, the easier it gets.”

Dr. Hannah is right. That is an outright lie. If we are really making progress in the Christian life, it gets harder and harder. Spiritual attacks become more frequent. Temptations become more powerful. The unanswered questions become more numerous.

Sure, there are a lot of positives and benefits to following Jesus, but we should never tell someone that becoming a Christian will solve all their problems. It won’t. Sure, it solves some, but in many ways, being a Christian introduces more problems than it solves.

The Christian’s Nine Lines

Second, generally, when people draw the progress of the spiritual life, they put a cross on the left side, and heaven on the right side, and a squiggly line between the two that goes up and down, hopefully trending upward.

discipleship chart

Dr. Hannah said that in his observations, there should be nine lines, one each for love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Gal 5:22-23).

Notice the things that are not on this list: Bible reading, church attendance, tithing, etc.

Sure, these things may be present as a result of some of these nine areas, but the truth is that someone can read through the entire Bible every day, give 100% of their income to God, and attend church every day of the week, but be failures in all nine of the things on this list.

So where are these nine things on your chart?

Clearings in the Rain Forest

Dr. Hannah likens the Christian life to a rain forest. When you first become a Christian, and you fly over the rain forest of your life, it is thousands of square miles of impassible and inhabitable jungle, full of twisted vines, rotting leaves, and deadly predators. But as you make progress, and continue to fly over your life, you begin to see clearings appear.

You are not sure why those clearings are there, or what they will be used for, but they appear, and over time, get bigger and bigger. Then organized buildings and roads appear. And areas of the jungle become useful, habitable, and productive.

Is the rain forest ever completely cleared? No. There will always be areas of jungle that remain. Also, everyone’s jungle is quite different. Just because a clearing appears in a certain area of my life does not mean that same clearing will appear in the lives of others. That area of their life may never get cleared in their entire lives. But that is because the master planner knows what he is doing, and knows what he needs.

Waiting for a Fall

Finally, he said that when you grow in your mental knowledge of truth, but not in your participation of that truth, it’s just a matter of time until you fall into grievous sin.

Yes and Amen.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Acts 29, Discipleship, following Jesus, lies, maturity, sin

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Emergent Immersion

By Jeremy Myers
12 Comments

Emergent Immersion

candles.jpgNext to God, the Bible, and the Gospel of grace, one of my great loves is the Church. I’ve been reading and hearing a lot about the “emerging church” recently, so I decided to visit one on Sunday. I went to google and searched for “postmodern emergent church dallas” and eventually found one that looked good.

Visiting an Emerging Church

I had learned from my “Acts 29” experience, so this time, I decided to “dress down.” I wore shorts and a ball cap. I’ve never worn a ball cap to church before, and during the service, I kept wanting to take it off. I probably would have taken it off during prayer time, but they didn’t have a prayer time, so I was able to keep it on. If I really wanted to feel at home, I should have walked in carrying an iPhone in one hand (No, I don’t own one) and Starbucks coffee in the other (No, I don’t like Starbucks).

The service started at 5:10, which seemed kind of odd to me, but made a bit of sense later. When I walked in, my very first reaction was that the church was much smaller than I thought it would be. Maxed out, the room couldn’t sit more than 70 people. The primary lighting in the room was candles, which provided a soft, worshipful “feel.” Some think that candles are bad because they are used by Catholics, Mystics, and cults. Personally, I like candles.

As I wandered around the room trying to decide whether to sit in a couch (yes, they had couches) or a padded pew, I noticed several pieces of art on the wall, and a coffee bar off in the corner. Nobody greeted me or even said “hi.” I guess emergent churches are just as distant toward newcomers as regular churches.

Wandering Around an Emerging Church

Eventually, as I wandered around, I found a room in the back which was more dimly lit than everywhere else and had some blue glowing birds in the center on a table. I went in to see what they were. On the table with the glowing birds were some mirrors and some instructions that as we enter into prayer, we should clear our mind of all thoughts (or something like this). I was alarmed at this piece of Eastern Mysticism which contradicts commands in the Bible to not clear our minds, but fill our minds (cf. Php 4:8). But I didn’t linger long, because I noticed four or five other tables around the room, and wanted to see what was on them. One had a “finger labyrinth” which the instructions said was like a real life prayer labyrinth, only much, much smaller. Supposedly, as your finger traced its way through the labyrinth, you were supposed to leave the cares of the world outside, and focus on the kingdom of God inside. Okay.

The next table had a big bowl of sand with a smaller bowl of rocks. The instructions told me to pick up a rock and hold it in my hand while writing my sins in the sand. After my sins were written in the sand, I was supposed to wipe them away because Jesus had removed my sins from me. I didn’t understand the rock, and thought maybe it was supposed to help me focus or channel. It was only after I got home and told my wife Wendy about it that she enlightened me. She said, “Well of course. It’s like the woman caught in adultery, and as people gathered around to stone her, Jesus wrote their sins in the sand.” Now that my wife caught the imagery, I think this is a pretty cool idea. I now wonder if the labyrinth and the glowing birds have some biblical imagery that escapes me. Maybe the birds symbolize sparrows (Matt 10:29).

On another table there were prayer candles you could light. This is also a Catholic practice, but I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong about it. The final table held a pitcher, basin, and a towel, which I supposed could be used to wash someone’s feet (John 13), or maybe your own hands as a symbol of neglecting Jesus (Matt 27:24).

The Emerging Church Service

Emerging ChurchThe beginning of the service was announced by a funny little video which I won’t try to explain. The welcome was given by a young guy who explained that he was now happy in life again because he got a new iPhone. He was one of the first people in the country to get the iPhone on opening weekend, but the first day he had it, he went swimming with it for 20 minutes, and found out it wasn’t waterproof. So apparently, a week earlier in church he was pretty depressed because he had plunked down $600 for an iPhone and barely even got to show it off. Anyway, he took the phone into an Apple store and told them it was “broken” and they gave him a brand new one, no questions asked. So now life was good again.

The music was well done, and they even admitted to changing the lyrics on a few songs to fit proper theology. I agreed with their changes, which means our theology is somewhat in sync. They sang for about 20 minutes, which is typical for most churches, with a good blend of contemporary songs and hymns.

I wryly noticed during the singing that the pastor’s husband (Did I forget to mention that the pastor is a woman?) didn’t sing a word of any of the songs. He stood there next to his wife and scowled the whole time. She looked a little flustered herself. I’ve been a pastor before, and so I recognize what probably was going on. Most pastor families have big fights right before church. Actually, most families in general have big fights right before church. If you are part of a family, and you go to church, you know this is true. I don’t think this is coincidence. Anyway, I can’t be sure, but I wouldn’t be too surprised to find out that the pastor and her husband had a fight in the car on the way to church.

The Emerging Church Sermon

After the singing, the pastor got up to speak. Apparently, she is preaching through Acts, which pleasantly surprised me since most churches today are turning away from systemmatic, expository preaching. She spoke from a portion of Acts 17, where Paul presents Jesus and the resurrection to the philosophers in Athens. Honestly, it was one of the better sermons I’ve heard in Texas so far. She went through the text verse by verse, reading it, explaining it, and applying it. She did a fantastic job.

One thing I liked, but which was very new to me, was that at any time during her message, people from the congregation could intersperse comments, jokes, or questions. Probably, this is much closer to the way it was in Acts and in the early church (Read some of the sermons by St. John Chrystostom to see what I mean. He too was expository, teaching his way through books of the Bible, and the transcriptions of his sermons are often sprinkled with his response to questions or comments from the crowd). I think that given the setting, the number of people there, and the personality of the pastor, these comments and questions from the congregation really enhanced the message and kept it even more lively and interesting than it already was. Many of the comments were very witty. The pastor’s husband, by the way, scowled all the way through the sermon too. He never laughed or smiled at anyone’s comments. Yes, there was definitively some marital conflict before church.

Let me say for the record that I do not believe that there are any biblical grounds for women being elders or teaching pastors of a church. This doesn’t mean women don’t know how to teach the Bible or don’t have teaching gifts. This woman clearly had a gift of teaching and knew her Bible well. I was impressed. But that doesn’t make it right.

Anyway, she taught for about 35 minutes. She sat on a stool, and used minimal notes. After the message, she explained that they always have a time of response to the Word (which I think is another great idea), and this week, she thought that the best way to respond to what we had learned was to have a time of silence (which I didn’t think was the best idea). It’s not that I don’t like times of silence. I do. I think church services and life in general should have more times of silence. I have an idea for an entire silent sermon I might give someday (the tapes probably won’t sell real well though). I just think there might have been some better ways to respond to this particular text.

Emergent Church

The End of the Emerging Church

After the silence, they took an offering and had some closing announcements. The service ended at 6:10 pm, and they said in continuation of their worship, they would like to invite everyone to join them at Chipotle’s for food and fellowship. This is why they meet at 5:10, so they can all go share a meal together afterwards. Again, I really liked this idea (cf. Acts 2:42), but decided not to go since Wendy was waiting for me at home.

All in all, I don’t see what the big fuss is about. Maybe this church truly isn’t “emerging.” I never did see a doctrinal statement, and one visit doesn’t tell me too much about what they believe. But frankly, most “non emerging” churches I have visited are so stale and dead, they probably need to emerge a bit. Also, most sermons I hear in these other churches are so shallow and empty of content, it would almost be better if there were no sermon at all.

This shallowness and emptiness is one reason why “emergent” churches started. And I think we probably have a lot to learn from them. I’m going to visit this church again, just so I can get a few more questions answered (“What’s the deal with the birds?). And then maybe I will try to find another emerging church to visit. I do know that in a few weeks I am going to visit a “cowboy church.” I’ll report on that as well, but I can tell you one thing: there probably won’t be any candles.

God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: Acts 29, bible, church, Discipleship, emergent, emerging church, gospel, grace, Jesus, Preaching, sermon, Theology of the Church

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