Redeeming God

Liberating you from bad ideas about God

Join the discipleship group
  • Join Us!
  • Scripture
  • Theology
  • My Books
  • About
  • Discipleship
  • Courses
    • What is Hell?
    • Skeleton Church
    • The Gospel According to Scripture
    • The Gospel Dictionary
    • The Re-Justification of God
    • What is Prayer?
    • Adventures in Fishing for Men
    • What are the Spiritual Gifts?
    • How to Study the Bible
    • Courses FAQ
  • Forum
    • Introduce Yourself
    • Old Testament
    • New Testament
    • Theology Questions
    • Life & Ministry

Problems with the Calvinistic Ordo Salutis in Romans 8:28-30

By Jeremy Myers
50 Comments

Problems with the Calvinistic Ordo Salutis in Romans 8:28-30

For many, Romans 8:28-30 presents the strongest case in the entire Bible for the Calvinistic doctrine of Unconditional Election.

ordo salutis

This text contains what many refer to as โ€œthe golden chain of salvation,โ€ linking Godโ€™s foreknowledge from eternity past to the glorification of Christians in eternity future. It seems that if those whom God foreknew from eternity past are the same ones He brings to glorification in eternity future, then sovereign Unconditional Election is the only way God could bring this about.

Here is what Paul writes:

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.ย  For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.ย  Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified (Romansย 8:28-30).

As can be seen, this text seems to strongly support the doctrine of Unconditional Election.

Calvinists onย Romans 8:28-30

John Piper calls it โ€œthe most important text of all in relation to the teaching of Unconditional Electionโ€ย (Piper, 5 Points, 58). Romans 8:29 begins by linking Godโ€™s divine foreknowledge with Godโ€™s predestination, and Romans 8:30 carries this predestination through calling, justification, and glorification.

It appears that Paul presents a โ€œgolden chain of salvationโ€ from eternity past to eternity future, just as Palmer states:

What Paul is saying in Romans 8 is that there is a golden chain of salvation that begins with the eternal, electing love of God and goes on in unbreakable links through foreordination, effectual calling, justification, to final glorification in heavenย (Palmer, Five Points of Calvinism, 32).

With just a cursory reading of Romans 9:29-30, it appears that Palmer is correct. It seems that Paul is saying that from eternity past, God had in mind a certain group of people whom He predestined to receive eternal life.

This group of people was called by God, justified by God, and glorified by God. Many note that even the word โ€œglorifiedโ€ is in the past tense, which seems to indicate that even when glorification is in our future, it is nevertheless settled and complete in the mind of God.

If our glorification and justification was settled in the mind of God through His calling and predestination from eternity past, then this text seems to irrefutably support Unconditional Election.

The Problem with theย Ordo Salutisย Romans 8:28-30

However, when Romans 8:28-30 is understood in context, not only does it fail to support Unconditional Election, but this text actually refutes it.

In some theological circles, there is an ongoing debate over something called ordo salutis, or โ€œthe order of salvationโ€ย (Sproul, Grace Unknown, 144).

The debate is basically about the logical order of events and decisions in Godโ€™s plan of salvation.

For example, while everybody agrees that justification precedes glorification, there is much debate about whether Godโ€™s decree to redeem humanity preceded or followed the human fall into sin. The option you choose leads to numerous ramifications about your understanding of Godโ€™s sovereignty, human freedom, and what (or who) initiated Godโ€™s plan of redemption.

One of the other issues in the debate over ordo salutis is in regard to Godโ€™s foreknowledge and predestination.

The Calvinistic Ordo Salutis looks like this:

Calvinistic Ordo Salutis

Arminians, with their desire to maintain human free will, often say that God, in eternity past, looked down through time to see who would choose Him out of their own free will, and then it is these whom God predestined for eternal life. In this order of events, Godโ€™s foreknowledge logically precedes Godโ€™s predestination. Calvinists disagree, and say that such an order of events makes God dependent upon human choice. They argue instead that God knows what will happen in the future because He predestined, or foreordained, all that will happen (Demarest, The Cross and Salvation, 36-44; Piper, 5 Points, 59-60).

Arminian Ordo Salutis

Yet when Paul talks about the โ€œorder of salvationโ€ in Romans 8:28-30, he does not follow the normal Calvinistic order. Instead, he follows the Arminian order. He puts foreknowledge before predestination.

In an attempt to explain this, Edwin Palmer explains that foreknowledge carries the idea of having a loving relationship with someone:

The word translated by the older versions as โ€œforeknewโ€ is a Hebrew and Greek idiom meaning โ€œlove beforehand.โ€ โ€ฆ Paul is using the Biblical idiom of โ€œknowโ€ for โ€œlove,โ€ and he means โ€œwhom God loved beforehand, he foreordainedโ€ย (Palmer, Five Points of Calvinism, 31-32; cf.ย Boettner, Predestination, 100).

The idea that Godโ€™s foreknowledge is best understood as Godโ€™s eternal love is correct, but this still doesnโ€™t solve Palmerโ€™s dilemma, that Paul places Godโ€™s foreknowledge prior to Godโ€™s predestination. Even with Palmerโ€™s exegetical sleight-of-hand in substituting in new terminology for Paulโ€™s words, he still cannot get around the fact that Paul has Godโ€™s foreknowledge (or eternal love) preceding Godโ€™s foreordination (or predestination).

A. W. Pink attempts similar gymnastics when he uses the word โ€œforโ€ at the beginning of Romans 8:29 to say that the phrase โ€œwhom He foreknewโ€ points back to part of the last clause of Romans 8:28, โ€œto those who are calledโ€ย (Pink, Sovereignty of God, 172).

In this way, Pink is able to base Godโ€™s foreknowledge on the calling of God, thus maintaining some semblance of the preferred Calvinistic ordo salutis. But this just confuses things further, because then Paul re-reverses the order in Romans 8:30 by putting Godโ€™s calling after predestination. Furthermore, since Calvinists often equate Godโ€™s โ€œeffectual callโ€ with Irresistible Grace and Godโ€™s predestination with Unconditional Election, A. W. Pink has just reversed the order of TULIP as well, by placing the โ€œIโ€ before the โ€œUโ€ย (Vance, Other Side of Calvinism, 389).ย It gets very confusing listening to Calvinists try to explain Paulโ€™s words.

R. C. Sproul also notes the difficulty in Romans 8:29-30, and tries to explain it away by stating this:

We notice in this text that Godโ€™s foreknowledge precedes his predestination. Those who advocate the prescient view assume that, since foreknowledge precedes predestination, foreknowledge must be the basis of predestination. Paul does not say this. He simply says that God predestined those whom he foreknew. Who else could he possibly predestine? Before God can choose anyone for anything, he must have them in mind as objects of his choice. โ€ฆ [So] in actuality Romans 8:29-30 militates against the prescient view of electionย (Sproul, Grace Unknown, 143.ย He later goes on to argue for the same meaning of โ€œforeknewโ€ as โ€œfore lovedโ€ as Palmer uses above. See p. 145).

I am not sure if โ€œmilitatesโ€ is the right word, as Sproulโ€™s argument is much weaker than he believes. According to Sproul, Paul is simply saying that God knows whom He will choose before He chooses them.

This would be fine, except that most Calvinists argue the opposite, that God only knows whom He will choose because He first chose them.

According to the Calvinistic ordo salutis, predestination and foreordination come before foreknowledge and election. So just like Palmer, Sproul is right about what Paul seems to say, but is in disagreement with what Calvinists typically argue.

ordo salutis

So does this mean the Arminian is right?

No.

Calvinists rightly criticize Arminians for saying that God looks down through the halls of time to see who will believe in Him for eternal life, and then He elects, chooses, or predestines those people to be the objects of His grace and love.

Calvinists say that this makes God subject to the will of human beings, and in fact, puts the whole plan of salvation at risk. I agree with what Boice and Ryken say on this point.

[Some teach] that God bases his election of an individual on foresight, foreseeing whether or not a particular individual will have faith. โ€ฆ [This] actually means that men and women elect themselves, and God is reduced to a bystander who responds to their free choice. Logically and causally, even if not chronologically, Godโ€™s choice follows manโ€™s choiceย (Boice, Doctrines of Grace, 99).

After all, what if God, in looking down through the halls of time to see who would choose Him, discovered that, much to His dismay, nobody had chosen Him? God would have been bound by this foreknowledge to do what He foresaw; otherwise His foreknowledge would have been in error.

If God only looks forward in time to see what it is that He should be doing in regard to human salvation, then God is bound by what He foresees to carry it out, even if He defeats Him and His purpose.

Right about now, you may be feeling like this discussion of Romans 8:28-30 is getting off into the weeds.

On the one hand, we have seen that while some Calvinistic explanations of various words of this text do in fact teach what those words say, we have also seen that the Arminian ordo salutis better fits the logical order in which Paul lists these words.

Yet the Arminian ordo salutis creates vast theological problems for the interplay between divine sovereignty and human freedom.

How then are we to proceed? What is Paul saying? How can we understand this text?

The solution seems to lie in the middle ground between Calvinism and Arminianism, which is discovered by letting Paulโ€™s words speak for themselves, which we will look at tomorrow.

Until then, what are your thoughts on theย ordo salutisย debate? Are you familiar with it? Is it all new to you? Do you have an opinion? Do you even care?

If you want to read more about Calvinism, check out other posts in this blog series: Words of Calvinism and the Word of God.

Affiliate Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Thank you for supporting my work in this way!

God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: Books by Jeremy Myers, Calvinism, election, ordo salutis, predestination, Romans 8:28-30, Theology of Salvation, TULIP, Unconditional Election

Advertisement

John 10:26 – Does Jesus Choose who will be His Sheep?

By Jeremy Myers
30 Comments

John 10:26 – Does Jesus Choose who will be His Sheep?

sheep John 10 26John 10:26 is often cited by Calvinists as a clear statement about Unconditional Election and how people do not become Godโ€™s โ€œsheepโ€ because they believe in Jesus; instead, they believe in Jesus because they were already Godโ€™s sheep.

On this text, John Piper writes, โ€œWe believe because we are Godโ€™s chosen sheep, not vice versaโ€ (Piper, 5 Points, 54).

This text is also sometimes used to defend the idea that regeneration precedes faith, and that God selects who will be His sheep from eternity past.

A. W. Pink writes that the elect โ€œare โ€˜sheepโ€™ before they believe, yea, before they are bornโ€ย (Pink, Sovereignty of God, 338).

And while John 10:26 does pretty clearly state that some people do not believe because they are not Godโ€™s sheep, the meaning of the passage depends entirely upon the broader context, and especially what Jesus means by โ€œsheep.โ€

John 10:26 in Context

John 10:14-16 are three verses in particular which help explain what Jesus is saying in John 10:26.

I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd (Johnย 10:14-16).

But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you (Johnย 10:26).

The imagery of โ€œsheepโ€ is prevalent in John 10, and to understand what Jesus is saying in John 10:26, we must understand what He is saying about sheep, and Himself as the Shepherd.

The truth that was seen in John 6 is important here as well. Jesus has come from God as the promised Messiah, and to help Him accomplish His earthly task, God has given to Jesus all those who were faithful followers of God.

We see this sort of thing happening all over in the Gospel of John. As Jesus engages in His earthly ministry, He frequently explains that those who know God, follow God, listen to God, and hear from God, will naturally and automatically know, follow, listen, and hear Himself as well, since He is from God (John 8:19, 42, 47; 14:7; 15:23; 16:3).

sheep hear my voice

So when Jesus speaks of โ€œsheepโ€ in John 6, He is referring to the Jewish people who came to Him from the Father. This imagery has great support from numerous Old Testament texts (cf. I kings 22:17; Ps 44:11, 22; 74:1; 78:52; 79:13; 95:7; 100:3; 119:176; Isa 53:6; Jer 23:1; 50:6, 17; Ezek 34:6, 11-12).

The Other Sheep of John 10:16

That this is what Jesus means is seen from John 10:16 where Jesus says that He has โ€œother sheepโ€ which are not of this sheepfold. What is He talking about? Since He is talking to Jewish people about those who come to Him from the Father, the โ€œother sheepโ€ are Gentile God-fearers who will also be given to Him by God.

This is exactly what occurs in the book of Acts (cf. Acts 10:1-2, 44-48). The ultimate goal, of course, is to bring both groups of sheep into one flock and under one Shepherd (John 10:16; Eph 2:13-18).

My Sheep Hear My Voice

All of this also explains why Jesus talks about His sheep hearing His voice (John 10:3-4).

The sheep which belong to Jesus have already become accustomed to hearing the voice of God, and so when they hear the voice of Jesus, the recognize His voice as the voice of God, and so they come to Him to follow Him.

These sheep were not unbelievers before they came to Jesus.

No, they were believers in God who followed Him and His ways for their life. They had become accustomed to the pattern and sound of Godโ€™s voice, and so when Jesus called them to follow Him, they looked at what He did and what He said, and recognized Him as having come from God.

This also explains why most of the Jewish leaders in John 10 do not come to Jesus: they didnโ€™t recognize Him as the shepherd, because by this point in their history, they had stopped listening to Godโ€™s voice. As Alfred Plummer notes, Jesus โ€œand His sheep have most intimate knowledge of one another; therefore these Jews asking who He is prove that they are not His sheepโ€ย (Plummer, โ€œThe Gospel of Johnโ€ in ย The Cambridge Bible, 220).

The Door for the Sheep

I am the door for the sheepWhen Jesus talks in John 10:7-10 about being the door for the sheep, He is not necessarily talking about how a person receives eternal life, but is instead talking about how a person finds protection and safety in this life, from those who wants to steal, kill, and destroy.

When Jesus uses the word โ€œsavedโ€ in John 10:9, He is talking about being guided to green pastures and being delivered from the thief who seeks to steal, kill, and destroy. To be โ€œsavedโ€ in John 10:9 means to have the abundant life of John 10:10. This is not equivalent to receiving eternal life.

The Unbelieving Sheep of John 10:26

So when all of this is taken into consideration, we see that when Jesus says in John 10:26 to some unbelieving Jews that they do not believe because they are not His sheep, He is not at all saying that they will not believe, or cannot believe.

Nor is He saying that everyone who ever believes in Him was one of His sheep before they believed.

No, Jesus is saying that these specific Jews who are having trouble with His claims, are having this trouble because they were not previously one of Godโ€™s sheep.

They do not recognize Jesus for who He is because they never understood who God really was. Despite all their religious claims to the contrary, they never truly followed God or learned to listen to His voice.

sheep john 10

If they had, they would have been one of Godโ€™s sheep, and God would have given them to Jesus, and they would have recognized His voice when He came to them. But since they did not recognize Him or His voice, this means they were not His sheep, and therefore, were not previously Godโ€™s sheep either.

Again, Jesus is not shutting the door in their face and saying there was no hope for them. He was telling them these things in the hopes that they would examine their hearts and minds and consider the idea that maybe, just maybe, Jesus truly was who He said He was, and that He was revealing God to them in the way God truly is.

If they believed in Him, then they would immediately become one of His sheep (though they had not previously been one of Godโ€™s), and He would give them eternal life, and would protect them and provide for them just as He does with all His sheep (John 10:27-30).

When Christ came, his sheep, like Simon (Luke 2:25), Anna (Luke 2:36-38), Zacharias and Elizabeth (Luke 1:5-6), the shepherds (Luke 2:8-10), and the disciples (John 1:40-49), knew him (John 10:14), followed him (John 10:27), and received eternal life (John 10:28). We have here the separation of the Jewish sheep from the goats and the drawing of them to the Messiahย (Vance, Other Side of Calvinism, 340).

Unconditional Election is not Taught in John 10:26

So there is no statement in John 10:26 about a divine choice in eternity past about who will belong to Jesus and believe in Him. โ€œJesus gives no hint here that He selected these specific disciples to be His sheepโ€ย (Klein, The New Chosen People, 127).

Like the passage in John 6, John 10 explains the transitionary nature of Jesusโ€™ ministry, where those who used to follow God and hear His voice, are now given by God to Jesus so that they now follow Jesus and hear Him.

All those who truly followed God and listened to Him will now follow Jesus and listen to Him, both among Jews and Gentiles. And why does Jesus call His sheep and ask Him to follow them? So that they can be His disciples; so they can serve Him and bless others.

If you want to read more about Calvinism, check out other posts in this blog series: Words of Calvinism and the Word of God.

Affiliate Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Thank you for supporting my work in this way!

God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: Books by Jeremy Myers, Calvinism, election, John 10:26, predestination, sheep, Theology of Salvation, TULIP, Unconditional Election

Advertisement

How to be a Sheep (at the Judgment of the Sheep and Goats)

By Jeremy Myers
13 Comments

How to be a Sheep (at the Judgment of the Sheep and Goats)

Mike EhrhartThis is a guest post by Michael Ehrhart. Michael is the lyricist for the Christian rock group Beautiful Mess. Beautiful Mess is the brainchild of brothers Mike and Chris Ehrhart, fueled by the musical vision and leadership of Mikeโ€™s son, Tim. Their aim is to help bring truth to those searching and create a space for honest, open communication.

You may connect with Mike through the Beautiful Mess website or on Twitter @BeautifulMessP

If you would like to write a Guest Post for Redeeming God, begin by reading the Guest Blogger Guidelines.

Have you ever read the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25 and wondered whether you are a sheep or a goat?

You know the story. The nations gather before Jesus, and He separates them into two groups, the sheep and the goats. The deciding factor on who belongs to which group is whether or not they served others, and in so doing, served Jesus.

Here is what Jesus says to the “sheep” in Matthew 25:34-40 (NIV):

Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.”

Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?”

The King will reply, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”

first responders

First Responders

Lately, I have been thinking about this passage in the context of first responders in our communities. Do you know any first responders? These are the folks that charge into burning buildings, race to accident sites and protect others from the hostile. You ever wonder what makes them tick? I wish I knew. I am amazed at how they willingly put themselves at risk attempting to help and even rescue others for little or no personal gain.

They seem to have this fearless commitment to rescue, even when the the odds are against them. Think of 9/11. Think of the house fire in your community last winter. Think of the car accident last spring on that back road in the pouring rain.

Even when the prospect of success is dim, these first responders press on.

Iโ€™ve heard first responders say things like โ€œThere was a slim chance of rescue, but we had to try.โ€ Or โ€œWe didnโ€™t know if anyone was alive, but if we could save just oneโ€ฆโ€

You can be a First Responder

What if us regular folks took a first responder approach in our communities? That is, donโ€™t we know folks that need to be rescued? People that need to be assisted, or even carried, from their current situation because they canโ€™t escape on their own. How about people that need financial, or emotional wounds to be bandaged? Or people that need protection from verbal, emotional or physical attack?

Whether in our work, school, play, or even in our families, donโ€™t we know folks that need to be lifted up?

You probably can think of several, but my question is โ€œWho is your one?โ€ Like that first responder charging into that burning building, maybe you canโ€™t save everybody, but who is your one? Who is the one you wonโ€™t let be consumed by that addiction (drugs, alcohol, porn, work,)? Who is the one you will come along side and shepherd out of financial challenge? Who is the one you will stand in front of to protect from abusers?

Think about how our communities would thrive if the healthy, stable and strong just rescued someone that is within their reach.

Isnโ€™t this what Matthew 25 and the parable of the sheep and the goats is describing?

Being this first responder doesnโ€™t take a lot of money, a superior intellect or Herculean strength. Itโ€™s not like we need a new law or some great technology that hasnโ€™t been invented yet.

Who will you throw on your back and carry them from THEIR fire, THEIR car wreck, THEIR attack?

Itโ€™s a simple question that needs your answer. Itโ€™s a simple question weโ€™re compelled to answer by the scripture in Matthew. Whoโ€™s your one? Who is the one person you can love today?

How to be a Sheep that Follows the Shepherd

The true heroes in the Kingdom of God are not those who feed 10,000 people while the television cameras are rolling. The true heroes, the true sheep, the true followers of Jesus, are those who give a smile to the check-out lady, a word of encouragement to the troubled, a hug to the lonely, a cup of water to the thirsty, a cup of coffee to the cold, a meal to the hungry, and helping hand to the weary. These are things that can be done every day. These are things you can today.

The truth of the matter is that it is much harder to be a goat than a sheep. When you see a need, be a first responder.

To be a sheep that follows the Shepherd, all you need to do is find the one person He leads you to today, and love them in whatever way you can.

Affiliate Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Thank you for supporting my work in this way!

God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: guest post, Matthew 25:34-40, parable, sheep and the goats

Advertisement

What does Jesus mean in John 6:44 when He says, “No one can come to me unless the Father draws him”?

By Jeremy Myers
82 Comments

What does Jesus mean in John 6:44 when He says, “No one can come to me unless the Father draws him”?

John 6 contains some of the most important texts on the topic of election. It is not uncommon for Calvinists to frequently reference some of the texts of John 6 in their defense of Unconditional Election. Here is what these verses say:

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out (Johnย 6:37).

This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day (Johnย 6:39).

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day (Johnย 6:44).

And He said, โ€œTherefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Fatherโ€ (Johnย 6:65).

Jesus answered them, โ€œDid I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?โ€ (Johnย 6:70).

As can be seen, several of these texts seem to pretty clearly state that God sovereignly chooses who will come to Jesus.

the father draws him john 6 44

How a Calvinist understands John 6:44

John 6:44 is especially strong, for Jesus says that no one comes to Jesus unless it has been granted to him by the Father. Palmer explains these texts in this way:

It is clearly seen that those who will be raised up at the last dayโ€”all true believersโ€”are given to Christ by the Father. And only those whom the Father gives to Christ can come to Him. Salvation lies entirely in the hands of the Father. He it is who gives them to Jesus to be saved. โ€ฆ This is nothing else than unconditional electionย (Palmer, Five Points of Calvinism, 27).

In a similar vein, though with much stronger words, the Calvinistic author Spencer writes this regarding his belief about what Jesus is saying:

It is tantamount to blasphemy for anyone to argue that man is capable, of his own free will, to make a decision for Christ, when the Son of God says in words that cannot be misunderstood, โ€œNo man can come to me, except the Father โ€ฆ draw himโ€ย (Spencer, TULIP, 42).

John 6:44 and the Choice of Jesus

Despite the risk of being accused of blasphemy for disagreeing with Spencer, there are two strong indications in this text that not all is as clear as the Calvinist would have us believe.

The first indication is in John 6:66 when some of those who were following Jesus did in fact turn away and stop following. If Jesus loses none of those who come to Him, how is it that some of those who came to Him stopped following Him? Did Jesus lose them or did He not? Or, as a third option, maybe something else entirely is going on in this text.

The second indication that something else might be going on is found in John 6:70. Calvinists who like to cite John 6:44 and some of the other verses in this chapter as proof for their doctrine of Unconditional Election almost never cite John 6:70.

If they do quote the verse, they usually only quote the first half of John 6:70. Those who quote the whole verse often do so in an attempt to prove reprobation, that God chooses some for eternal damnation.

I chose you
Calvinist love to quote this verse…. but only the first half.

In this text, Jesus says that He has chosen all twelve of His disciples, but one of them is a devil.

Understandably, this verse causes great problems for those who teach that Godโ€™s election is only to eternal life. Jesus clearly chooses Judas, just as He chooses the other eleven. And yet, Judas โ€œis a devil.โ€ This text either proves that reprobation is true, or that the choice, or election, of Jesus is not regarding the eternal destiny of people.

And in fact, since this entire chapter is about how followers of God become followers of Jesus, and since we have consistently seen in previous postsย that election is to service, it is better to understand John 6:70 in this regard, as well as the other verses in this chapter about those who come to Jesus.

The Choice of Jesus in John 6 cannot be to eternal life

If election is to eternal life as the Calvinist presumes, then John 6:70 contains the strange teaching that Jesus elected Judas to eternal life, knowing that Judas was (or will be) controlled by the devil.

Very few Calvinists would like to admit that Judas was elect, yet in John 6:70, Jesus clearly states that He chose all twelve, including Judas (cf. Luke 6:13). It makes much more sense to realize that election is not to eternal life, but to purpose and to service.

Only in this way can we allow for Judas to be chosen, or โ€œelectedโ€ by Jesus, for Judas did in fact serve a very special role and purpose within the ministry and mission of Jesus. All the apostles were chosen for a vocationโ€”including Judas. โ€œUnquestionably Judas shared the election of the other eleven (Luke 6:13; John 6:70)โ€ย (Klein, The New Chosen People, 270).

Jesus does not say, โ€œI have chosen eleven of you but the other is a devil.โ€ The election of Judas was no different from that of the others. โ€ฆ Election was not about whether a person went to heaven or to hell; it was the bestowal of an office and a taskย (Marston and Forster, Godโ€™s Strategy in Human History, 138).

So how then are we to understand what Jesus is teaching in John 6?

While Jesus does explain how a person receivers eternal life (cf. John 6:40, 47), the reception of eternal life is not itself connected with a sovereign decree or election of God.

Quite to the contrary, in the overall context of John 6, Jesus is explaining why some people follow Him as disciples and others do not (cf. John 6:60-71).

John 6 44So while the reception of eternal life by faith is mentioned in this passage, the overall theme is about discipleship. To be a disciple, of course, simply means to be a student, learner, follower, or apprentice. To be a disciple means to be taught by God, which is exactly what Jesus says in John 6:45.

Not all who have eternal life consistently follow Jesus in discipleship, and not all who are disciples of Jesus have eternal life. While it would be ideal for all believers to be disciples and all disciples to be believers, it does not always work out this way, as John 6 clearly reveals.

The various groups of John 6 could be pictured with a Venn diagram, where there is a group of people who believe in Jesus for eternal life but choose not to follow Him (John 6:60, 66), and there is a group who follow Him but who do not believe in Him for eternal life (John 6:70-71), but there is one overlapping group of people who both believe in Him and follow Him (John 6:68-69).

venn diagram on John 6

This sort of division in peopleโ€™s response to Jesus can be seen throughout the Gospel of John. (Of course, there is also a fourth group in John, which neither believes in Jesus nor follows Him.)

John 6, however, is not just about these various groups.

Those given to Jesus by the Father

In the events described in John 6, Jesus also explains why it is that some come to follow Him while others do not. Jesus states repeatedly in this passage that those who come to follow Him were given to Him by God the Father (John 6:37, 39, 44, 65).

These are the texts that Calvinists often cite as evidence for the doctrine of Unconditional Election.

But note that none of these texts are in reference to the people who believe in Jesus for eternal life. Jesus is speaking about those who become His disciples.

Note as well that the ones about whom Jesus is speaking in John 6 are all Jewish. Jesus is not making a blanket statement about all people everywhere who will come to Jesus. Instead, He is speaking specifically about why certain Jews follow Him while others do not. Jesusโ€™ explanation is that those Jewish people who come to Him are those who previously worshipped the Father. And now that the Father has sent His Son into the world, those who used to worship the Father are now directed by the Father to worship the Son.

In other words, God is giving His worshippers to Jesus. It is much like how the disciples of John stopped following him and became disciples of Jesus instead (cf. John 1:37-39; 3:25-30).

John 6 is a chapter about transition.

Jesus is explaining that those who hear and learn from the Father, will be instructed by the Father to hear and learn from Jesus (John 6:45).

Those who used to be disciples of God the Father, are now given to Jesus to be His disciples. In other words, those Jewish people who do not follow Jesus, simply indicate that they were not truly following God. They do not have eternal life, not because they were not elect, but because they would not come to Jesus in faith (cf. John 5:40).

Since Jesus is sent from God, those who follow God will now follow Jesus, and Jesus will not drop, reject, or lose anyone who comes to Him from God (John 6:39). All of this is reiterated and clarified in John 10 (which will be looked at in a future post), and the prayer of Jesus in John 17:2-24.

John 6 compared to John 17

John 17In John 17, Jesus uses very similar language as He uses here in John 6, but in John 17, He is speaking primarily about the apostles. These twelve were chosen to receive special revelation about God through Jesus Christ (John 17:6). They belonged to God, but were given to Jesus by God (John 17:9) so that they might behold the glory of God in Jesus Christ (John 17:24). And though they were given to Him, Jesus lost none of them, except for Judas (John 17:12).

Over and over again, using terminology very similar to that used in John 6, Jesus speaks of His twelve apostles and the special purpose, privilege, and service to which they were called. The primary subject of Jesusโ€™ teaching in John 6, 10, and 17 regarding the people whom God has given to Jesus are His apostles. โ€œA definite group is being given to Christ during his earthly ministryโ€”not before the foundation of the world. The ones given are Jewish disciplesโ€ย (Vance, Other Side of Calvinism, 344).

They previously belonged to God as His followers, but God gave them to Jesus so that Jesus could fulfill and complete His earthly ministry. Even Judas, though he was unregenerate, had a role to play. Judas too was chosen by Jesus. He too had a task or ministry to performย (Klein, The New Chosen People, 129).

Eternal life and Being Chosen for Service

Nevertheless, we cannot ignore that in the context of Jesusโ€™ teaching about those whom He chooses for service, He mentions the fact that He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him for it (John 6:40, 47). What is the connection between receiving eternal life by faith, and being chosen by Jesus for service?

It is this: While God sometimes sovereignly chooses individuals to serve Him in some special way, everyone and anyone who simply and only believes in Jesus for eternal life, will be accepted by God and given to Jesus for inclusion in His purposes in this world.

In other words, Jesus is saying that if someone wants to be chosen by God and given to Jesus, that person can simply believe in Jesus for eternal life. God will give such people to Jesus, and Jesus will lose none of them, but will raise all of them on the last day (John 6:40, 44).

Jesus teaches that a group of people are en route to a grand and glorious destinationโ€”resurrection to life everlasting. The Father has them in his care, and he has entrusted them to Jesus. They come to Jesus, and he will not turn them away.

Jesus assures his disciples that he will not lose any of these special ones; they will attain theย  resurrection. This is assured and even (pre)destined in the sense that Godโ€™s will has determined it all. But when we come to answer the question, Who is in this group? Jesusโ€™ response is, โ€œeveryone who looks to the Son and believes in himโ€ (John 6:40).

God gives to Jesus the company of believers. Jesus will never reject on who comes to him in faith. This is Godโ€™s will.

The Drawing of John 6:44

But what are we to make of the word โ€œdrawโ€ in John 6:44?

We discussed this text earlier in a post aboutย Total Depravity, but a few additional comments are appropriate here as well.

drag john 6 44Calvinists often point to this text, and then make the comparison between it and passages like James 2:6 and Acts 16:19 which uses the same word for โ€œdraggingโ€ or โ€œcompellingโ€ people to go where they do not want to go. Some scholars also point out that the word is used in classical Greek to refer to drawing water from a well. They then point out that nobody can โ€œwooโ€ or โ€œenticeโ€ water from a well; it has to be drawn up irresistiblyย (Sproul, Grace Unknown, 36).

Yet they fail to mention that the same word is used as well over in John 12:32 where Jesus says He will draw all men to Himself.

If the Calvinist really wants to say that the word โ€œdrawโ€ means that God irresistibly drags all the elect into eternal life, then they must also say that all men are irresistibly dragged into eternal life, which would make the Calvinist a universalist as well.

So which definition is correct? Does God irresistibly drag, or does God woo and entice?

The truth is that context helps determine which type of drawing in in view. Kittelโ€™s Theological Dictionary of the New Testament says this:

There is no thought here of force or magic. The term figuratively expresses the supernatural power of the love of God or Christ which goes out to all (12:32) but without which no one can come (John 6:44). The apparent contradiction shows that both the election and the universality of grace must be taken seriously; the compulsion is not automaticย (Kittel, TDNT, 227).

Jesus calvinist John 6 44
NO! He wasn’t!

Regarding the specific context of John 6, William Klein adds this insight:

Jesus issues an invitation in John 6:45 that clarifies the โ€œdrawingโ€ of John 6:44. Everyone (pas) who listens and learns from God comes to Jesus. Godโ€™s drawing is not selective nor irresistible. The โ€œdrawingโ€ stand right in their midst; in effect, Jesus is saying, โ€œNo one comes to the Father except through meโ€ (John 14:6). The attraction, the reasons, arguments, and features are all there. The question is: will the Jews really listen and learn from God?ย (Klein, The New Chosen People, 143).

Conclusions about John 6

When everything is put together, John 6 clearly teaches that being elected or chosen by God is not an Unconditional Election by God in eternity past to eternal life. Rather, election is to service.

Furthermore, one condition to being chosen by Jesus was to have previously been a faithful servant of God. Only those who belonged to God in this way were then given by God to Jesus for continued service. Jesus had a special task to fulfill, and God gave Him helpers to aid in that task.

Have you ever studied these texts in John 6 or had discussions about them with others? What is your understanding? Do you have any additional insights to add to the ones above? Share in the comment section below!

If you want to read more about Calvinism, check out other posts in this blog series: Words of Calvinism and the Word of God.

Affiliate Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Thank you for supporting my work in this way!

God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: Books by Jeremy Myers, Calvinism, election, John 6, John 6:44, Theology of Salvation, TULIP, Unconditional Election

Advertisement

When will God will gather His elect (Matthew 24:31)?

By Jeremy Myers
14 Comments

When will God will gather His elect (Matthew 24:31)?

One set of texts which are occasionally referenced in support of the Unconditional Election comes from the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24. The reason these texts are cited is because they make reference to โ€œthe elect.โ€

And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened (Matthew 24:22).

For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect (Matthew 24:24).

And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Matthew 24:31).

These three texts clearly reference the elect, but we must remember that just because a Bible verse uses the word โ€œelect,โ€ this does not mean that the Calvinistic understanding of election is true.

One sometimes runs into Calvinists who argue that election is true because the Bible mentions election.

elect in Matthew 24

 

The question, however, is not whether or not the Bible mentions election, but rather what the Bible means when it mentions election.ย And when Matthew 24 refers to election, what it teaches is somewhat surprising, and in fact, seems to undermine the Calvinistic understanding of election.

Matthew 24 and Election

According to Calvinism, those who are elect are unconditionally chosen by God to receive eternal life. They are irresistibly brought by God into His family. Election occurs because a sovereign God rules and controls all.

Yet what is exceedingly strange in these texts from Matthew 24 which mention the elect, is that it appears that โ€œeven the electโ€ could be deceived and led astray by the false christs and false prophets that arise in the last days. If God sovereignly controls the beliefs and behaviors of His elect, then how is it that they could be deceived by false teaching? Indeed, Jesus says that God will cut short those days so that the elect will not die and will not be deceived.

To be even more specific, it is possible that when Jesus refers to โ€œthe electโ€ in this text, He might be specifically thinking of the Jewish elect people, so that when He refers to gathering the elect from the four winds, He is referring to gathering His people Israel back to Jerusalem from the four corners of the earth.

gather his elect

As a side note, it is important to recognize that when Jesus speaks about being โ€œsavedโ€ in this passage (cf. Matthew 24:13, 22), He is not referring to justification or receiving eternal life, but to being delivered from death in this time of tribulation. The salvation in Matthew 24 is not about going to heaven when we die, but is about deliverance from physical death during times of tribulation (Wilkin, Grace New Testament Commentary,ย 110).ย Paul makes a similar statement about the Jews in Romans 11:26-27.

So when it comes to the discussion of election, Matthew 24 really doesnโ€™t provide any new information about how one becomes elect or what interaction exists (if any) between the human and divine wills.

There is an indication that God does not sovereignly control the beliefs and behaviors of the elect, and since they themselves might be deceived by the false teaching of these last days, He intervenes to cut those days short, but other than this, there is little that this text adds to the discussion of election.

If you want to read more about Calvinism, check out other posts in this blog series: Words of Calvinism and the Word of God.

Affiliate Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Thank you for supporting my work in this way!

God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: Books by Jeremy Myers, Calvinism, election, Matthew 24, Theology of Salvation, TULIP, Unconditional Election

Advertisement

  • « Previous Page
  • 1
  • …
  • 43
  • 44
  • 45
  • 46
  • 47
  • …
  • 82
  • Next Page »

My New Book is Out!

Get your copy on Amazon today!
Learn about the gospel and how to share it

Take my new course:

The Gospel According to Scripture
Best Books Every Christian Should Read
Study Scripture with me
Subscribe to my Podcast on iTunes
Subscribe to my Podcast on Amazon

Do you like my blog?
Try one of my books:

Click the image below to see what books are available.

Books by Jeremy Myers

My New Book is Out!

Get your copy on Amazon today!

Theological Study Archives

  • Theology – General
  • Theology Introduction
  • Theology of the Bible
  • Theology of God
  • Theology of Man
  • Theology of Sin
  • Theology of Jesus
  • Theology of Salvation
  • Theology of the Holy Spirit
  • Theology of the Church
  • Theology of Angels
  • Theology of the End Times
  • Theology Q&A

Bible Study Archives

  • Bible Studies on Genesis
  • Bible Studies on Esther
  • Bible Studies on Psalms
  • Bible Studies on Jonah
  • Bible Studies on Matthew
  • Bible Studies on Luke
  • Bible Studies on Romans
  • Bible Studies on Ephesians
  • Miscellaneous Bible Studies

Advertise or Donate

  • Advertise on RedeemingGod.com
  • Donate to Jeremy Myers

Search (and you Shall Find)

Get Books by Jeremy Myers

Books by Jeremy Myers

Schedule Jeremy for an interview

Click here to Contact Me!

Follow me on X

© 2026 Redeeming God · All Rights Reserved · Powered by Knownhost and the Genesis Framework