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Church Plant Rant

By Jeremy Myers
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Church Plant Rant

Below is a post from Gary Lamb (which is no longer available on his site). Lots of people see glory in church planting, but what most don’t realize is that to plant in such a way that genuinely reaches lost people, there’s more gore than glory.

church plant rant

Here is what Gary wrote about that:

Every church planter I meet says they are starting their church to reach those that are disconnected from God. Many of them grew up in church, became Christians at a early age, and donโ€™t even have a relationship with someone far from God, but they are going to reach those far from God. I listen to a lot of podcasts, watch a lot of videos from other churches, and it breaks my heart to know they are doing a lot of things and a lot of things well, but reaching those far from God is NOT one of them.

I have learned that most church planters REALLY donโ€™t want to reach those far from God, they really want to do church in a cool way. There is a difference. Just because you have great video, loud music, dress casual, and use movie clips doesnโ€™t mean you are reaching those far from God.

I honestly believe most planters would freak out if they started having to deal with the issues that come from reaching truly unchurched people. It is messy, ugly, scary, and actually can keep you from growing because it scares the hell out of those who grew up in church.

We had a person on our staff a couple of years ago who came here because he wanted to be part of a church that reached unchurched people.ย  The first time his wife sat next to a couple of lesbians, he was rethinking that.ย  This guy was a nice guy, but he couldnโ€™t handle the ugliness that comes with reaching those that are far from God.ย  He literally walked around the church on Sundays with a look of terror in his eyes.ย  He didnโ€™t want to reach lost people, he wanted a church where he could come and wear whatever he wanted and impress other Christians because he was at an church with a little edge.ย  It wasnโ€™t long before he was running for the hills.ย  He couldnโ€™t handle the messiness of reaching those with problems.ย  The sad thing is he isnโ€™t alone.ย  Most guys canโ€™t handle it.

When I say it is messy, I donโ€™t think most guys understand what I mean, so allow me to walk you through my week that just got done. This is a pretty typical week at Revolution and the side 99% never see.

  • I have a bottle of pain pills worth about $400 on the streets sitting in my desk that one of our peopleโ€™s spouse brought me after finding them. The name on the prescription isnโ€™t the name of the person who brought them because they were bought on the street.
  • I had another one of our people lose their job for stealing thousands of dollars from the company they work for.
  • I have a addict in our church who has relapsed and in the process is about to lose EVERYTHING and he doesnโ€™t even know it.
  • I set up an intervention for an addict that will take place this week. This is his last chance and he doesnโ€™t even know it.
  • Last night I was at the ER until 3 in the morning because one of our people took a razor blade and slit both his wrists, his neck, and took around 80 sleeping pills. Heโ€™s alive, but I have to say it was the most horrific thing I have ever seen in my life.

All of that was just from this week. That is the life of reaching those disconnected from God. None of those people care how โ€œcoolโ€ our church will be tomorrow. All they care about is we have created a place where they can come with all their crap and feel loved and connected.

Iโ€™ll be honest and tell you that there are times when pastoring Revolution freaks me out. There are times when I think it would be easier to do what most guys do and plant a church that really is a place for other Christians to come hang out and talk about how we are reaching unchurched people instead of doing it. I think that would be easier, but we would not be charging the gates of hell with that mindset. There are enough guys around doing that and doing it well.

Canton didnโ€™t need another church. Canton didnโ€™t need another church with loud music, casual dress, and โ€œrelevantโ€ teaching. Neither do most of the towns where guys are planting. However, Canton did need a place that was loving the unlovable. It needed a place that was willing to get itโ€™s hands dirty and deal with the messy crap that takes place in the lives of those far from God.

When a guy wants to tell me they are starting a church to reach the disconnected, I always ask them if they are sure they want to do that. I donโ€™t think they understand the cost that comes with it. It literally can almost kill you at times.

BUT, if they do understand the cost, they will realize it is nothing compared to the reward of seeing lives changed with the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is worth whatever cost there is. I would put everything on the line to continue to do what we do because the payoff is so huge.

Most guys wonโ€™t.

end rant.

Thanks Gary, for laying it out for us!

2013 UPDATE: I am not a fan of church planting any longer. I now believe that we don’t plant churches, we simply be the church by loving others whom God places in our life. Simple. Easy. Natural. …And it looks like Jesus.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: church, Church planting, Discipleship, love, mission

I’m Going into Missions

By Jeremy Myers
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I’m Going into Missions

When I tell people I am going into church planting, the most common reaction I get from people is, “Why? Don’t we already have enough churches? Why can’t you just pastor an established church?”

The truth is that I don’t care as much about planting churches as I do about helping people come into a deep and vibrant relationship with Jesus Christ. Here is a video that explains more: (Wait for a few seconds after you press play….)

If this sounds more like missions, that’s because church planting IS missions. Church planting is state-side missions.

So when people ask me why I’m going into church planting, I think I’m going to start saying, “I’m not. I’m going into missions.”

world missions

2013 UPDATE: I am no longer in “church planting” but I am still in “missions.” I have had some changes in my theology regarding church, and I now believe that we don’t plant churches or go to church, but we ARE the church by loving the people around us whom God brings into our lives. It is simple, easy, and looks like Jesus.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Church planting, Discipleship, love, missions

Good Discipleship ideas for mega churches

By Jeremy Myers
1 Comment

Good Discipleship ideas for mega churches

discipleship for missionSo we’ve seen the two basic models of discipleship and the pros and cons of each. Ideally, there should be a way to blend the two so we keep the positive aspects of each while avoiding the negative.

Here is what Matt Chandler is doing at his church:

Celebrate Change

You must create an air that celebrates life transformation and change.

These things must be championed and celebrated from the stage in the service every single week. Use video and testimony to celebrate growth, transformation, and movement. It cannot be a sermon series once a year. You have to constantly, constantly bang the drum of progressive sanctification. And you MUST celebrate more than just the “miracle.”

Yes, put up the guy who drank and drank and drank, and then came to Christ, and hasnโ€™t desired a drink since. But also, champion the guy who is still raw, who still struggles. You get a guy up there to say, โ€œIโ€™m struggling, but let me tell you where I see God.โ€

Create On-Ramps

Have lots of “on ramps” and “off ramps.” Make it easy for people to get involved in various ways of spiritual transformation, and make it ways for them to just rest in what they have learned.

Allow times when you just back away from everything, and not try to control things, and just let them sit, rest, and germinate.

Keep Flexible

The mission and end goal is sacred, but nothing else is. Ask yourself: What stirs your affections for Jesus Christ? And what robs you of that affection? Almost all of us have different answers to these questions.

You must be flexible enough not to dictate to the people in your church how they are to grow spiritually. Some read Edwards. Some play the piano. Some go to the graveyard. Some go the art museum. Weโ€™ve got to figure out how to give our people freedom to press on toward the Lord.

You can lay some track for them, but you canโ€™t punish people when they deviate off that track.

Be Relational

There needs to be a relational aspect to everything. Everything. Here are some ways to make things relational:

Home groups. You canโ€™t just throw people in a room and have community together. We need to try to help people build community, but it is very, very difficult. If they already have community, encourage them to stay with that group. Tell the older people they have a fishing license, and you are giving them a stocked lake. Tell them to look around and invite a couple over for dinner so they can pour their lives into someone younger. If you try to assign people to relationships, it wonโ€™t work.

Recovery ministry. There are lots of “short circuits” that people need help with. Drug. Alcohol. Relationships. Porn. Anger. Eating.

Apply your Teaching. Whatever teaching you do, be heavy on application.

Use Movies. Use film to teach theology. (But get a license to show these films.)

Children and youth. Donโ€™t teach moralism. Donโ€™t teach a fake, external morality. Teach strong doctrine, and then engage the parents in the process. Provide the parents tools to help teach the children. For example, suggest field trips they can take their children on and questions they can ask. If we teach the children at church, and this doesn’t get reinforced at home, all we are teaching our children is to compartmentalize their Church life from the rest of their life.

Be Patient

All of this takes time. Lots of time.

Find mature leaders. Pair them with 2-3 others, and tell them to walk together for 2-3 years intentionally. Then, these people turn around, and disciple 2 or 3 more, while they are still being discipled by those over them. So eventually, everyone is discipling and being discipled.

So, that is a broad-brush overview of what they are trying to do. He said to check back in 20-30 years to see if it worked. Do you have any ideas or suggestions on how we can encourage community while keeping people in the Word?

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Acts 29, Discipleship, Matt Chandler, organic church, relationships

Two basic discipleship models and their pros and cons

By Jeremy Myers
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Two basic discipleship models and their pros and cons

churches need balanceYesterday I introduced the two basic discipleship models. Today, I review the pros and cons of each discipleship model as presented by Matt Chandler.

Pros of the Mechanical-Linear Discipleship Model

  1. There is no better way to disseminate information, and get people to learn Bible and theology.
  2. It has had some historical success.
  3. There are TONS of resources and curriculum.
  4. Itโ€™s easy to measure. How many went through all the steps?
  5. Itโ€™s easy to motivate people to join and participate.
  6. It lends itself to great theology.

Cons of Mechanical-Linear Discipleship Model

  1. Itโ€™s hard to sustain. It starts big, and people fall off every week.
  2. It can lead to coldness.
  3. It lends itself primarily to the mechanical, mathematical, engineering types (which is a good thing) but most others have trouble keeping up.
  4. Such programs have a tendency to become very sacred, and if you later try to stop such programs, people get angry.

Pros of the Organic-Relational Discipleship Model

  1. It seems to yield the greatest results. People stick around when there are authentic communities. If they feel safe, they are much more prone to stick.
  2. It tends to appeal to a broader group of personality types. Most of us are not intellects. But almost all of us are relational. We all long for and want community and relationships. It still allows the intellects to cross-pollinate.

Cons of the Organic-Relational Discipleship Model

  1. We are all sinners. If we are not intentionally maturing, we wonโ€™t mature. Maturity doesnโ€™t just happen.
  2. Itโ€™s nearly impossible to measure. The only thing you have to count is numbers, and that doesnโ€™t really tell you much.
  3. Itโ€™s nearly impossible to control. You get leaders teaching very strange things in their groups.

Curiously, there is a huge schism over these two discipleship models today, and generally, this schism seems to follow along generational lines. Those who are in their 20s and 30s lean more toward the organic model while those over 40 lean heavily on the mechanical. There may be ways to blend the pros of both while avoiding the cons. We’ll look tomorrow at what Matt Chandler is doing in his church, and maybe make a few general suggestions for what other churches can do as well.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Acts 29, Discipleship, Matt Chandler, organic church, relationships

Matt Chandler on Discipleship

By Jeremy Myers
8 Comments

Matt Chandler on Discipleship

The number one question in most churches today is “How can we properly, adequately, and effectively make disciples?” If this isn’t your church’s number one question, you should probably shut down the church and go read Matthew 28:19-20 again.

This was the topic of Matt Chandler’s session at the Regional Acts 29 Conference I attended recently. In the next three posts, I will review what he said. It parallels exactly what I’ve been thinking for about a year now, which is why it was so exciting.

Two Roads Diverged in the WoodsToday, I will simply introduce in broad brush strokes the two most common methods of making disciples in our churches today. Tomorrow, we will discuss the pros and cons of each, and on Friday, we will present a few ideas for how to take the pros from both approaches and incorporate them into the church while avoiding the cons.

Organic Discipleship

Matt began by pointing out that there are two basic approaches to making disciples in churches today.

The first is relational discipleship (which he called “organic”), where the church encourages people to get together in some sort of home groups where they hang out, develop relationships, and just trust the Holy Spirit to work in their midst bringing them into the knowledge of the truth. They will often have some sort of “designated driver” to lead the group in a particular direction, but often the leader doesn’t really know how to get people “home” or what that “home” is.

This approach tends to generate lots and lots of numerical growth in a church, but very little deep spiritual growth.

Mechanical-Linear Discipleship

Then there is the content-based model of discipleship, which Matt referred to as the “Mechanical-Linear” model. It will often have certain steps and classes that a person has to progress through on the “path” of discipleship. In this approach, discipleship is often equated with learning. There will be notebooks full of notes, classes that people can take, and different levels to aspire to.

This approach does not get the great numbers that the organic approach does, but does give a few people a lot of information and knowledge about the Bible and theology.

During my five years as a pastor, I adopted and leaned heavily upon the Mechanical-linear model. I even spent time in certain sermons and Bible studies to criticize and condemn the Organic model.

Now, three years out of pastoral ministry, and looking at heading back into it through church planting, I have been able to think, reflect, watch, and study these two models at work, and see numerous pros and cons to both.

Tomorrow, I will review the pros and cons of each model that Matt Chandler has seen.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Acts 29, Discipleship, Matt Chandler, Matthew 28:19-20

Acts 29 with Dr. John Hannah

By Jeremy Myers
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Acts 29 with Dr. John Hannah

Acts 29I recently attended a regional Acts29 church planting event. It was the second one I have been to. You can read about the one I attended last year here.

The guest speaker was Dr. John Hannah from Dallas Theological Seminary. He spoke about spiritual formation, and specifically, how to overcome sin in our lives.

A few things he said rang so true in my life that it was like the dawn rising in my life. Below are these things. Matt Chandler spoke as well, which was excellent. Although he is a Calvinist, he may be one of the most creative and thoughtful mega-church pastors of this generation. I will make a post tomorrow about what he said.

But here is some of what Dr. Hannah said:

A Popular Christian Lie

He said, โ€œSomeone once told meโ€”and if I could remember who it was I would shoot themโ€”that the longer you are a Christian, the easier it gets.โ€

Dr. Hannah is right. That is an outright lie. If we are really making progress in the Christian life, it gets harder and harder. Spiritual attacks become more frequent. Temptations become more powerful. The unanswered questions become more numerous.

Sure, there are a lot of positives and benefits to following Jesus, but we should never tell someone that becoming a Christian will solve all their problems. It wonโ€™t. Sure, it solves some, but in many ways, being a Christian introduces more problems than it solves.

The Christianโ€™s Nine Lines

Second, generally, when people draw the progress of the spiritual life, they put a cross on the left side, and heaven on the right side, and a squiggly line between the two that goes up and down, hopefully trending upward.

discipleship chart

Dr. Hannah said that in his observations, there should be nine lines, one each for love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Gal 5:22-23).

Notice the things that are not on this list: Bible reading, church attendance, tithing, etc.

Sure, these things may be present as a result of some of these nine areas, but the truth is that someone can read through the entire Bible every day, give 100% of their income to God, and attend church every day of the week, but be failures in all nine of the things on this list.

So where are these nine things on your chart?

Clearings in the Rain Forest

Dr. Hannah likens the Christian life to a rain forest. When you first become a Christian, and you fly over the rain forest of your life, it is thousands of square miles of impassible and inhabitable jungle, full of twisted vines, rotting leaves, and deadly predators. But as you make progress, and continue to fly over your life, you begin to see clearings appear.

You are not sure why those clearings are there, or what they will be used for, but they appear, and over time, get bigger and bigger. Then organized buildings and roads appear. And areas of the jungle become useful, habitable, and productive.

Is the rain forest ever completely cleared? No. There will always be areas of jungle that remain. Also, everyone’s jungle is quite different. Just because a clearing appears in a certain area of my life does not mean that same clearing will appear in the lives of others. That area of their life may never get cleared in their entire lives. But that is because the master planner knows what he is doing, and knows what he needs.

Waiting for a Fall

Finally, he said that when you grow in your mental knowledge of truth, but not in your participation of that truth, itโ€™s just a matter of time until you fall into grievous sin.

Yes and Amen.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Acts 29, Discipleship, following Jesus, lies, maturity, sin

I’m Ashamed to be a Christian

By Jeremy Myers
14 Comments

I’m Ashamed to be a Christian

Ashamed to be a ChristianSome days, I’m ashamed to be a Christian.

Today is one of those days.

I want to issue a public apology to all people everywhere who were ever hurt, slandered, abused, or hated in the name of Christ.

I am sorry for what has been done in the name of Jesus.

Ashamed to be a Christian

The reason I am ashamed to be a Christian today is because of a website I ran across which is solely dedicated to spreading the terrible idea that the God of the Bible hates everybody.

The site is so mean and hurtful and angry, I kept wondering if it was just a terrible, horrible, awful joke. I am not going to post the site, because I don’t want anybody to go to it. It is the most despicable, hateful, hurtful, angry, website I have ever come across, and it is all run by “Christians” who claim to be working for “the Gospel.”

One entire section of the site is geared toward helping Christians gather and picket people and businesses with signs that say “God hates _______ (fill in the blank).” I am astounded at the people and places they are planning on picketing, and the way they do it is despicable. They call such events “Picket Crusades.” It’s very reminiscent of the actual Crusades, except that swords and horses have been swapped out for signs and bullhorns.

Personally, I think God hates “Christians” who proclaim hate in the name of God.

Maybe some of us other Christians should get a group together and go picket these picketers. We could write signs that say “God hates people who make signs that say ‘God hates _____ (fill in the blank).'” I’m jesting, but that would be quite a circus.

When people go out in the name of Jesus to do such things, it makes me ashamed to be a Christian, or at least, ashamed to call myself a Christian.

I am Not Ashamed of Christ

Though I may be ashamed to be a Christian when so-called Christians proclaim hate in the name of Christ, I am not ashamed to associate myself with Jesus Christ.

Such hateful behaviors and actions have nothing to do with Jesus, look nothing like Jesus, and are not at all what Jesus taught or wanted His followers to do.

The truth is that while I feel very sorry for what has been done in the name of Jesus, I also feel very sorry for the people who do it. What is going on in their lives, hearts, and minds to cause them to say and do such things? I feel awful that they think this is the way God is. I wonder what can be done to show them the true love and grace of God?

Anybody want to start a ministry focused on reaching Christian picketers?

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: apology, ashamed, Discipleship, evangelism, God hates, Jesus, sorry

Bartending as a Bi-Vocational Pastor

By Jeremy Myers
23 Comments

Bartending as a Bi-Vocational Pastor

I have a friend who wants to plant churches. He doesn’t want to raise support, but to support himself bi-vocationally. Also, he wants to reach those people that most churches don’t (or won’t) reach. He figures that just as Christ came into this sin-sloshed world to save us, he needs to go into a sin-sloshed place to reach the unreached people of our culture. I can’t disagree on any of this.

Bartending PastorBut then he told me what he wants to do as his bi-vocational job: He wants to tend bars. He figures that pastors and bar-tenders have a lot in common.

He may be right about that, but does that make it right?

Oh, and by the way, his wife wants to have a ministry with strippers. She wants to go into strip clubs with a female friend of hers, and befriend the girls in there. If necessary, she says she will buy lap dances, but rather than get a lap dance, use the time to express the love of Jesus to them. She wants to have them over for dinner, and give them birthday parties, and teach them how to manage a budget, and cook meals, and care for babies.

Is it okay for a Christian pastor to be a bartender and for his wife to enter strip clubs?

Is this kind of outreach and evangelism “legal” for Christians? Or, maybe more Christians should be doing this kind of thing, and the only reason we aren’t is because we’re afraid of what “legalistic” Christians will say.

What do you think?

Update: After I wrote this post, I discovered some groups that were doing exactly these things. 

  • Church in a Bar
  • Church in a Bar 2
  • Dirtbags – Not for the Girly-Man
  • Strip Club Ministry
  • XXX Church

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: bartending, Discipleship, evangelism, strip club, strippers, xxx

Advice for a Crisis

By Jeremy Myers
8 Comments

Advice for a Crisis

If you are facing a crisis in your life, or know someone who is, here is some advice for both situations.

If you Know Someone Who is in a Crisis

If you have a friend facing a crisis, just go be with them.

Just listen to them vent.

Donโ€™t chide them for their emotions, fear, anger, hurt, despair.

Please donโ€™t quote Scripture unless they ask you to.

Donโ€™t offer theological truths which you think will help them.

Donโ€™t ask them what sin they might have committed to make God discipline them.

In other words, donโ€™t throw rocks. If you are afraid of saying the wrong thing, donโ€™t say anything at all.

Most of the time, hurting people just want others to be there.

If you see something tangible that they need, offer to provide it for them, food, clothing, money, helping hands, resources. The only intangible aid you should offer is prayer, and only say โ€œIโ€™ll pray for youโ€ if you are also thinking of ways to be an answer to your own prayers.

My father died when I was two, and my mother says that what I have written above holds true in that sort of crisis as well. A friend of mine lost his brother in a hiking accident a few years ago, and he confirms this as well.

Crisis Advice

When Facing Your Own Crisis

In a recent crisis my wife and I faced, one of the things that initially bothered us was how when we shared with others that we were going through a crisis, they responded by sharing a crisis that they were facing or had faced in their own lives.

Our first reaction was, “Don’t try to turn this around to you. I’m the one in pain!” But then we realized, “Wow, how self-centered are we?”

Yes, pain hurts, and sometimes life stinks.

But it’s this way for everybody at times.

And one way to get over your own pain, fear, hurt, and disappointment, is to realize that it’s part of life, that others are facing it too (and many of them much more than you are), and that you can either have a pity party for yourself, or try to help others through their own pain, which in turn helps you.

To help others through their own pain, go back and look at point number one above.

A Story About a Crisis

One day a Rabbi stood on a hill overlooking a certain city. The Rabbi watched in horror as a band of Cossacks on horseback suddenly attacked the town, killing innocent men, women, and children. Some of the slaughtered were his own disciples. Looking up to heaven, the Rabbi exclaimed, “Oh, if only I were God.”

An astonished student, standing nearby, asked, “But, Master, if you were God, what would you do differently?” The Rabbi replied, “If I were God I would do nothing differently. If I were God, I would understand.”

Like it or not, I think the Rabbi is right. The best we can do in a crisis (and maybe the most we should do) is simply say, “I don’t understand.”

In the comments below, please share your own suggestions for handling a life crisis, whether it is your own crisis or helping someone else through their crisis.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: anger, counseling, crisis, Discipleship, fear, hurt, life, mourning, pain

What You Learn in Seminary

By Jeremy Myers
27 Comments

What You Learn in Seminary

Some people wonder what you learn in seminary. Others wonder if seminary is worth all the time, effort, and debt. (By the way, if you are thinking about Bible college or seminary, I recommend starting off with an online Bible college or seminary to see if it is for you.)

As for myself, I am glad I went to Bible college and seminary because I think it provided me a “speed course” in much of the things I was already learning. I think I still would have learned most of what I learned in Bible college and seminary, but it would have taken me much longer.

learn in seminary

And yet… to get the knowledge that you learn in seminary, you have to wade through a bunch of crap. In other words, what you learn in seminary is often only helpful while you are in seminary.

What you Learn in Seminary

For example, I still remember in one of my “Eschatology” classes (study of the End Times), three different students were interacting with the professor about what we were learning. Between the three of them, they used the following terms: “ontological bridge,” “theological taxonomy,” and “epistemological center.” And yet we wonder why the average seminary graduate has a difficult time connecting with the average person on the street.

Thanks to seminary, I understood what they were saying, but all I could think was, “I hope those students don’t preach much.” If seminary teaches us to talk like this, seminary is a failure.

If you ever catch me talking like this, come burn my books.

People often wonder what you learn in seminary. While there some value to seminary, mostly you wrack up a bunch of debt to learn to talk like a moron.

Have you been to seminary? What was your experience of seminary? Do you know seminary-trained pastors? Are they able to interact well with non-seminary trained people? Are you thinking of attending seminary? Why or why not?

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: bible college, Bible study, Discipleship, Preaching, seminary

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