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The Bloody Bible

By Jeremy Myers
46 Comments

The Bloody Bible

bloody bibleThe Bible is full of bloody and gruesome portrayals, many of which are carried out at what appears to be the direct command of God. 

One atheistic author has written an entire book about these many thousands of passages in the Bible in which God blesses, causes, commands, or sanctions violence against human beings (Steve Wells, Drunk with Blood: God’s Killings in the Bible). 

But it is not just atheists who notice and are troubled by such violent texts. 

Many Christians consider the violent portions of Scripture to be the most troubling texts in all the Bible. In fact, I talked with one woman just this past week who has abandoned Christianity, largely because of the violent portrayals of God in the Bible. She said, “If there is a God, he is either is monstrous to cause such things, is impotent because he cannot stop them, or is absent and he does not care. Whichever way you go, such a god is not worthy of worship. ” 

I couldn’t agree more. 

I, too, could not worship a god like that. 

Thankfully, I don’t think those are the only three options when trying to understand the violent portrayals of God in the Bible. I have tried to present my view in previous posts. 

Yet although there are other options, this doesn’t mean it is easy to understand what is going on behind these bloody events in the Bible. 

Most difficult to assess are passages portraying God as a bloodthirsty warrior—“I will make my arrows drunk with blood, while my sword devours flesh” (Deut 32:42)—or as burning with anger so ruthless it consumes the enemy “like stubble” (Exod 15:7). Also troubling are passages ordering the Israelites to “carry out the Lord’s vengeance” (Num 31:3); to “kill all the boys” and “kill every woman who has slept with a man” (Num 31:17); to “make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy” (Deut 7:2); to “not leave alive anything that breathes” (Deut 20:16); so that the Israelites “left no survivors” (Deut 2:34; Josh 10:39) (See Heath Thomas, Jeremy Evans, and Paul Copan, eds., Holy War in the Bible: Christian Morality and the Old Testament Problem, 189).

Over the course of the next several months, we are going to take a brief look at several of the violent and bloody portrayals of God in the Old Testament. 

The analysis of these texts will be much shorter than the analysis of the flood in Genesis 6–8 because explaining all the texts in detail would simply mean that many of the same arguments and ideas presented as an explanation for one text would simply be repeated in an explanation for a different text. (See Paul Copan, Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God). 

Each text will be introduced in turn with a brief explanation of how God is portrayed in the passage, and this will be followed with a brief explanation of how to understand God’s actions in light of the Chaos Theory and in light of God taking on the sin of the whole world, just as Jesus did on the cross.

It must be reiterated, however, that not all the passages allow for a clear glimpse behind the curtain. While many of the violent and troubling depictions of God are explained in later texts of the Bible in a way which shows that God did not actually command or perform the evil that is ascribed to His name, many of the passages have no such explanation later in Scripture. So for those texts, we must simply rely on what we know about God through the revelation of Jesus, and also what we know about the six points of the Chaos Theory and how God has ordered the universe.

To prepare yourself for this series of posts, I strongly suggest you go read the previous posts I have written on this topic related to the Chaos Theory and the Proposal I am attempting to defend. 

What are your thoughts on the violent portrayals of God in the Bible? Have you struggled with any of the bloody events in Scripture? Which ones? 

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: blood, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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52 God Memes that will either make you laugh or angry (depending on your theology)

By Jeremy Myers
31 Comments

52 God Memes that will either make you laugh or angry (depending on your theology)

As I write about the violence of God in the Bible and have conversations about this with various people I interact with during the week, I often tell people that one of the reasons this is such an important topic is because Christians need a better answer to provide the world than the ones we have always given. Usually, the stock Christian answer to the violence of God in Scripture is “God is God and can do what He wants.”

I am not fond of that answer.

In fact, let me go so far as to say that if what God wants to do is slaughter people because they don’t do what He wants, then I don’t mind it so much if people decide not to worship a God like that.

Anyway, one of the objections I occasionally get (but not too often, thankfully) to this whole series on the violence of God is that we don’t really need a better answer to give the world, because the world isn’t too concerned about the violent portrayals of God in the Bible.

I think I understand what people mean when they say this. I think they mean that most people in the world aren’t thinking too much about whether or not God is violent. That’s probably true. Maybe.

Yet in my conversations with people who do not believe in God or who want nothing to do with Him, it seems that more often than not, the issue of His violence in the Bible is often mentioned in the first few minutes of the conversation about why they cannot believe in the God of the Bible. Maybe it’s just who I talk with…

Anyway, I was looking for some images recently for one of my blog posts on the violence of God in the Bible and came across a whole series of internet God memes, and guess what? A large number of these God memes are about the violence of God in the Bible.

Frankly, I found most of these God memes quite humorous, but also quite telling. If one of the common themes in this God meme is about God’s violence in the Bible, doesn’t this imply that people are thinking about it? Maybe it’s just atheist trying to mock the Bible, but even if so, don’t we need a better answer than “God is God and can do what He wants”?

I think so.

Anyway, I though I would include some of the God memes I found online for your viewing enjoyment. Some of you might get upset at some of these. Don’t. If we cannot laugh at ourselves, or of we are too thin-skinned to allow others to laugh at us, then we should not be doing theology and should not spending time online.

Here then, are the 52 God Memes I found online. Most follow the same “meme” pattern, but there’s a few at the end I threw in for good measure.

And yes, there may be some repeats. Deal with it.

52 God Memes

allmygodmemes

 3ff948_3439583

 violence of God memes

 trollphotou1

  god_slavery_meme

049-God-Logic

 christian-belief-vik-religion-1384474908

 008-God-created-Hell

 

036-God-PWNS

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: atheists, God memes, humor, laugh, salvation, Theology of God, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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Why the Traditional Understanding of the Flood is Wrong

By Jeremy Myers
37 Comments

Why the Traditional Understanding of the Flood is Wrong

Yesterday I presented a way of reading about the flood that was different than the traditional way the flood account is usually read.

Certainly, the way I have proposed is challenging, but let us think momentarily about what the traditional reading says. To reject the view I have presented in previous posts, you either have to go with the traditional reading which says God sent the flood and killed all humanity except for eight people, or you have to categorize the flood account as a historical or literary myth.

the flood in Genesis 6-8

Frankly, if the choice is between a God who drowns millions of people and understanding the flood account as a myth, the second option is better by far. The traditional reading of this account says that because God saw how great the violence was upon the earth, He decided to bring even greater violence. The traditional reading argues that because the sin of violence had spread throughout the earth, God was going to trump all their violence with the greatest violence of all.

Can this be true of God?

Does God defeat violence with greater violence?

Can it be right that God’s response to violence is only greater violence?

Does it not seem strange that when God sees violence come upon the earth, His response is an act of supreme violence?

It is extremely strange that the primary sin mentioned in Genesis 6:13 is violence (cf. Genesis 6:11), and the most common way of reading Genesis 6 says that God responded to the sin of violence with greater violence.

How can this way of reading Genesis 6 be correct?

If God is actually trying to show the world a better way—a more loving way, a less violent way—the flood does not seem to be the best course of action. All it really shows is what the human race already believes: that might makes right.

The Flood Failed at Wiping Out Evil

Furthermore, aside from annihilating every living thing on earth except for the humans and creatures in the ark, the violent response of God toward evil didn’t really accomplish anything. Some seem to think that God intended to wipe out evil with the flood, but He knows that this is impossible, as He Himself states in Genesis 8:21.

The condition of humanity as having every inclination and imagination of their hearts only evil all the time didn’t change one bit as a result of the flood. It was this way before the flood, and it was this way afterwards as well (cf. Genesis 6:5 with Genesis 8:21). If God’s goal in the flood was to teach people not to be so evil, He failed miserably, and got a lot of human blood on His hands in the process (Fretheim, God and World, 81). This not only seems overly violent, but incredibly foolish of God.

If God knew beforehand that the flood wouldn’t “work,” why send it?

The Traditional Way of Understanding the Flood is Incorrect

This is why the text seems to hint that God didn’t send the flood. 

It appears, based on several clues within the text itself, that the traditional way of reading the text is not correct. 

Though the traditional reading is what the text seems to say on the surface, the revelation we have received in Jesus Christ challenges us to look beneath the surface of these deep and troubled waters to discern something else going on in the flood event than a violent God foolishly seeking the near-extermination of everything that breathes on earth.

noahs flood

The alternative perspective helps us understand that when worldwide destruction was coming up on the earth as a result of mankind becoming extremely evil and violent, God stepped in to save and rescue those who would follow Him. This truth is not only hinted at in Genesis 6–8 itself, but also in the parallel accounts in Job, Isaiah, Matthew, and 2 Peter, all of which we have looked at earlier (See the link list on this post: When God Pled Guilty)

Genesis 6-8 Summarized

When God saw that this destruction was inevitable, He set in motion a series of events to rescue and deliver as many people as He could from this great evil. He called out Noah to build the ark and proclaim deliverance from the destruction that was coming. When that destruction came, it was not by the hand of God, but He nevertheless took the blame for it by inspiring the biblical author of Genesis 6–8 to record that He was sending the flood.

In reality, far from sending the flood, God did all He could to rescue people from it. In the end, only eight people were delivered when the flood waters came upon the earth.

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Genesis 6, the flood, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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God Asks for Our Forgiveness

By Jeremy Myers
32 Comments

God Asks for Our Forgiveness

We often think that it is only we who must go to God for forgiveness, but there is a sense in which God asks us to forgive Him.

forgiving God

No, it is not that God has sinned, but that He knows how much pain and suffering have come upon the world because of how He set it up to run. There was, of course, no other way the world could function and still accomplish God’s goal of having genuine, free relationships with humanity, but still, God in a sense “feels bad” about the way things have turned out, and as part of accepting responsibility for all the evil and violence in the world, on the cross, God also asks us to forgive Him for what has happened.

Some might object that God does not need to say “I’m sorry” for what He does not actually do.

Yet as humans, we do this all the time. One way to empathize with others who are experiencing great loss and pain is to come along side them in their suffering and say, “I am sorry.” Is their pain your fault? No, of course not. But saying you are sorry for what they are experiencing helps them know that someone notices their pain, cares about what they are going through, and is with them in their suffering.

Nevertheless, saying “I am sorry” is not the same thing as asking “Will you forgive me?” Yet even here, we have all experienced time sin our lives where we have accidentally caused pain in someone else’s life, and though we did not do it intentionally, we nevertheless ask for their forgiveness.

I have three daughters, and my wife and I have taught them that if, in the process of playing with each other, one accidentally hurts another, they should say “I am sorry” and “Please forgive me” even if they did not intend to hurt or harm their sister. Such behavior is expected. Such behavior is godly.

I believe it is on the cross where God shows the entire world that He is sorry for the pain we are experiencing, and He asks forgiveness for His part in this pain. Though He did not cause the pain and suffering (nor was it an accident on His part), because He is the Creator God who made the universe as it is, He accepts responsibility for how things have turned out, says He is sorry for what we are going through, and begs our forgiveness.

Dare we discern anything so outrageous as the idea that here God is making an atonement toward man for all that his desired creation costs man in the making: that he was making love’s amends to all those who feel, and have felt, that they cannot forgive God for all the pains which life has foisted, unwanted, upon them?

… Love in God’s fashion is indeed outrageous and a scandal because it does stoop and condescend to what, by lesser standards, it need not. Perhaps God in his love stands, not only as the bestower of forgiveness, but as the Father who, for the sake of the created who glory is his desire, even stoops to invite the forgiveness he cannot deserve in order to make it one degree easier for man to be drawn into the orbit of love (Elphinstone, Freedom, Suffering, and Love, 147).

forgive godGod stooped to become one of us, and took our sin upon Himself, so that He might be both the forgiver and the forgiven.

In Jesus, God asks us for forgiveness, so that we, in Jesus, might both bestow forgiveness to God and receive forgiveness from God.

The God who in Christ was reconciling the alienated uncomprehending world to himself is perhaps more ready than his defense counsel to admit responsibility and show that he is sharing the consequences.

… God does know more intimately than any the price his creatures have been paying for his huge adventure of making this universe of accident and freedom and pain as the only environment in which love could one day emerge to receive and delight in and respond to his joyous love. He still believes the outcome will outweigh the immense waste and agony, not least the agony of his seeming indifference and inaction. So, knowing we cannot understand, cannot forgive, what he is doing, God [in Christ] has come among us a fellow-being and fellow-sufferer to make amends and to win back trust (Taylor, The Christlike God, 204-205).

In Christ, God came to say, “I am sorry.”

Do you forgive God?

Do you forgive God for the pain you have experienced?

For the heartache of broken relationships?

For the suffering of sickness and death?

For the sin that rages all around us unchecked and unpunished?

For the loss, the fear, and the anguish of life?

For “not making a better world” (though none better was possible, See Kushner, When Bad Things Happen, 161)?

God has said, “I am sorry. Will you forgive me?” How will you respond?

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: forigiveness, Theology of God, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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God Takes on Our Violence

By Jeremy Myers
27 Comments

God Takes on Our Violence

old testament violenceIf it is on the cross that Jesus most fully reveals God, and it is on the cross that Jesus became sin for the world, then this means that in the Old Testament, God also was becoming sin for the world.

Just as Jesus became repulsive on the cross by taking on the sin of the world, the proper response to reading about the violence of God in the Old Testament is to be repulsed. We are repulsed by the violence of God in the Old Testament because we are supposed to be repulsed.

God Takes on the Violence of Israel

The violence of God in the Old Testament is exactly the violence of God, but is God taking on the violence of Israel. Israel, much like any other nation in history, was a child of its times, and set about living and functioning in a way that resembled the surrounding nations. Often this led to acts of war and violence against other people.

And though this was not the way God wanted them to behave, when they set out in these violent and warlike directions, God took their actions upon Himself.

He took responsibility for their behavior. He did not condone or command their actions, but when they set out to live in a way that was contrary to His will and ways, He inspired the biblical authors to put the violent actions of Israel upon Himself, so that He could take the blame and the shame for their sin.

God fights against violence by recognizing it for the evil that it is, and by taking the pain and suffering caused by evil upon Himself, thus emptying it of its power. God defeats violence by absorbing the violence on Himself. By not responding to violence with more violence, but simply taking the violence onto Himself, the infinite spiral of violence unravels itself upon the scarred and bloodstained back of God.

If he can manage to absorb the violence onto himself rather than either responding with new violence of his own or hardening himself in a way that deflects the original violence back onto the world, he has a means of dampening the reaction and winding down the conflict.

… Evil is stymied because it simply cannot get the usual chain reaction as much as started. It punches itself out against the defenselessness of the [suffering] servant (Eller, King Jesus’ Manual, 161.

The Bible Says What God Wants

Look at it another way: If the Bible is inspired and inerrant, then it records exactly what God wanted recorded. And if we read the Bible backward, then we read Jesus back into those violent portrayals of God in the Old Testament rather than read those depictions of God forward onto Jesus.

When we do this, we can assume that whatever appears inconsistent with the nature and character of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Gospels, comes not from God but from agents who oppose the will and ways of God, or from those who simply do not understand what God is truly like.

But often these passages in the Old Testament will state that the instructions were given by God, and if we read these texts in the light of Jesus, then we understand that although God was not telling them to do such things, He nevertheless inspired them to write what they did so that He could take the blame for their sinful actions. Just as Jesus came to destroy the devil’s work, to become sin for us, and to reveal God to us through His entire life and ministry and especially on the cross, then this also is what God was doing in the Old Testament.

God inspired the Old Testament authors to write about Him in a violent way so that He could do the same thing for Israel that Jesus did on the cross. Just as Jesus became sin for us, God became sin for Israel, and in this way, hopefully, stops the cycle of violence from continuing.

violence in Old TestamentGod Takes on the Violence of All Humanity

Of course, God’s action of taking the blame for the sin of His people does not begin with Israel, but with the sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. From the very first sin, God takes the blame and violence upon Himself.

He does this in at least two ways.

First, He does not argue with Adam, Eve, and the serpent all implicate Him in their shame. Satan blames God for putting the tree in the garden and for wanting to keep the knowledge of good and evil to Himself (Genesis 3:5). Eve blames God by saying that she was tricked by the serpent (Genesis 3:13), who was in God’s garden. Adam blames God for giving the woman to him (Genesis 3:12).

God, like Jesus after Him, never utters a word in His defense.

But even in Genesis 3:14-19, God takes the blame for the evil that comes upon the world as a result of Adam and Eve’s sin. Many interpret these verses as God cursing the serpent, the man, the woman, and the ground.

And while a surface reading of the text does seem to indicate that this is what happens (although the word “curse” is never used in connection with Adam and Eve themselves), a more careful reading of the text reveals that God is more likely just describing the natural consequence of their decision to rebel against Him and hand dominion of the earth over to Satan.

Yet by pronouncing what will happen as a result of sin, God takes the blame for it.

t appears as if He is the one actively causing enmity, strife, sorrow, pain, thorns, thistles, and death.

People Sin. Bad Things Happen. God Takes the Blame.

This sort of pattern is followed throughout the rest of Scripture. People sin, bad things happen, and God takes the blame.

When people see God taking the blame for the violence and evil of His people (sometimes by “commanding” them to do it), they feel that they must somehow justify the violence and explain how it is really “good.” But this is the wrong approach. God is repulsed and saddened by the destructive violence, which is why He takes the blame for it. But He knows that by taking the blame upon Himself, He will hopefully stop the cycle of violence from continuing, for while a person might retaliate in violence against a violent neighbor, how does one retaliate against a violent God?

When we look at what Israel does in the Old Testament and are repulsed by it, we can know that we are feeling the right thing, for this is what Jesus did on the cross.

He became repulsive. He became despised, rejected, forsaken, and shamed (Isa 53:3).

So also with God in the Old Testament.

If we despise what He is described as doing and are tempted to reject and forsake those shameful depictions of God, then we are feeling exactly what God wants us to feel.

Rejection of the violent portrayals of God is good and godly because God is not violent.

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: evil, Genesis 3, God, Old Testament, Theology of God, Theology of Jesus, violence, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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