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The Bloody Bible

By Jeremy Myers
46 Comments

The Bloody Bible

bloody bibleThe Bible is full of bloody and gruesome portrayals, many of which are carried out at what appears to be the direct command of God. 

One atheistic author has written an entire book about these many thousands of passages in the Bible in which God blesses, causes, commands, or sanctions violence against human beings (Steve Wells, Drunk with Blood: God’s Killings in the Bible). 

But it is not just atheists who notice and are troubled by such violent texts. 

Many Christians consider the violent portions of Scripture to be the most troubling texts in all the Bible. In fact, I talked with one woman just this past week who has abandoned Christianity, largely because of the violent portrayals of God in the Bible. She said, “If there is a God, he is either is monstrous to cause such things, is impotent because he cannot stop them, or is absent and he does not care. Whichever way you go, such a god is not worthy of worship. ” 

I couldn’t agree more. 

I, too, could not worship a god like that. 

Thankfully, I don’t think those are the only three options when trying to understand the violent portrayals of God in the Bible. I have tried to present my view in previous posts. 

Yet although there are other options, this doesn’t mean it is easy to understand what is going on behind these bloody events in the Bible. 

Most difficult to assess are passages portraying God as a bloodthirsty warriorโ€”โ€œI will make my arrows drunk with blood, while my sword devours fleshโ€ (Deut 32:42)โ€”or as burning with anger so ruthless it consumes the enemy โ€œlike stubbleโ€ (Exod 15:7). Also troubling are passages ordering the Israelites to โ€œcarry out the Lordโ€™s vengeanceโ€ (Num 31:3); to โ€œkill all the boysโ€ and โ€œkill every woman who has slept with a manโ€ (Num 31:17); to โ€œmake no treaty with them, and show them no mercyโ€ (Deut 7:2); to โ€œnot leave alive anything that breathesโ€ (Deut 20:16); so that the Israelites โ€œleft no survivorsโ€ (Deut 2:34; Josh 10:39) (See Heath Thomas, Jeremy Evans, and Paul Copan, eds., Holy War in the Bible: Christian Morality and the Old Testament Problem, 189).

Over the course of the next several months, we are going to take a brief look at several of the violent and bloody portrayals of God in the Old Testament. 

The analysis of these texts will be much shorter than the analysis of the flood in Genesis 6โ€“8 because explaining all the texts in detail would simply mean that many of the same arguments and ideas presented as an explanation for one text would simply be repeated in an explanation for a different text. (See Paul Copan, Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God). 

Each text will be introduced in turn with a brief explanation of how God is portrayed in the passage, and this will be followed with a brief explanation of how to understand Godโ€™s actions in light of the Chaos Theory and in light of God taking on the sin of the whole world, just as Jesus did on the cross.

It must be reiterated, however, that not all the passages allow for a clear glimpse behind the curtain. While many of the violent and troubling depictions of God are explained in later texts of the Bible in a way which shows that God did not actually command or perform the evil that is ascribed to His name, many of the passages have no such explanation later in Scripture. So for those texts, we must simply rely on what we know about God through the revelation of Jesus, and also what we know about the six points of the Chaos Theory and how God has ordered the universe.

To prepare yourself for this series of posts, I strongly suggest you go read the previous posts I have written on this topic related to the Chaos Theory and the Proposal I am attempting to defend. 

What are your thoughts on the violent portrayals of God in the Bible? Have you struggled with any of the bloody events in Scripture? Which ones? 

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: blood, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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52 God Memes that will either make you laugh or angry (depending on your theology)

By Jeremy Myers
31 Comments

52 God Memes that will either make you laugh or angry (depending on your theology)

As I write about the violence of God in the Bible and have conversations about this with various people I interact with during the week, I often tell people that one of the reasons this is such an important topic is because Christians need a better answer to provide the world than the ones we have always given. Usually, the stock Christian answer to the violence of God in Scripture is “God is God and can do what He wants.”

I am not fond of that answer.

In fact, let me go so far as to say that if what God wants to do is slaughter people because they don’t do what He wants, then I don’t mind it so much if people decide not to worship a God like that.

Anyway, one of the objections I occasionally get (but not too often, thankfully) to this whole series on the violence of God is that we don’t really need a better answer to give the world, because the world isn’t too concerned about the violent portrayals of God in the Bible.

I think I understand what people mean when they say this. I think they mean that most people in the world aren’t thinking too much about whether or not God is violent. That’s probably true. Maybe.

Yet in my conversations with people who do not believe in God or who want nothing to do with Him, it seems that more often than not, the issue of His violence in the Bible is often mentioned in the first few minutes of the conversation about why they cannot believe in the God of the Bible. Maybe it’s just who I talk with…

Anyway, I was looking for some images recently for one of my blog posts on the violence of God in the Bible and came across a whole series of internet God memes, and guess what? A large number of these God memes are about the violence of God in the Bible.

Frankly, I found most of these God memes quite humorous, but also quite telling. If one of the common themes in this God meme is about God’s violence in the Bible, doesn’t this imply that people are thinking about it? Maybe it’s just atheist trying to mock the Bible, but even if so, don’t we need a better answer than “God is God and can do what He wants”?

I think so.

Anyway, I though I would include some of the God memes I found online for your viewing enjoyment. Some of you might get upset at some of these. Don’t. If we cannot laugh at ourselves, or of we are too thin-skinned to allow others to laugh at us, then we should not be doing theology and should not spending time online.

Here then, are the 52 God Memes I found online. Most follow the same “meme” pattern, but there’s a few at the end I threw in for good measure.

And yes, there may be some repeats. Deal with it.

52 God Memes

allmygodmemes

 3ff948_3439583

 violence of God memes

 trollphotou1

  god_slavery_meme

049-God-Logic

 christian-belief-vik-religion-1384474908

 008-God-created-Hell

 

036-God-PWNS

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: atheists, God memes, humor, laugh, salvation, Theology of God, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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Why the Traditional Understanding of the Flood is Wrong

By Jeremy Myers
37 Comments

Why the Traditional Understanding of the Flood is Wrong

Yesterday I presented a way of reading about the flood that was different than the traditional way the flood account is usually read.

Certainly, the way I have proposed is challenging, but let us think momentarily about what the traditional reading says. To reject the view I have presented in previous posts, you either have to go with the traditional reading which says God sent the flood and killed all humanity except for eight people, or you have to categorize the flood account as a historical or literary myth.

the flood in Genesis 6-8

Frankly, if the choice is between a God who drowns millions of people and understanding the flood account as a myth, the second option is better by far. The traditional reading of this account says that because God saw how great the violence was upon the earth, He decided to bring even greater violence. The traditional reading argues that because the sin of violence had spread throughout the earth, God was going to trump all their violence with the greatest violence of all.

Can this be true of God?

Does God defeat violence with greater violence?

Can it be right that Godโ€™s response to violence is only greater violence?

Does it not seem strange that when God sees violence come upon the earth, His response is an act of supreme violence?

It is extremely strange that the primary sin mentioned in Genesis 6:13 is violence (cf. Genesis 6:11), and the most common way of reading Genesis 6 says that God responded to the sin of violence with greater violence.

How can this way of reading Genesis 6 be correct?

If God is actually trying to show the world a better wayโ€”a more loving way, a less violent wayโ€”the flood does not seem to be the best course of action. All it really shows is what the human race already believes: that might makes right.

The Flood Failed at Wiping Out Evil

Furthermore, aside from annihilating every living thing on earth except for the humans and creatures in the ark, the violent response of God toward evil didnโ€™t really accomplish anything. Some seem to think that God intended to wipe out evil with the flood, but He knows that this is impossible, as He Himself states in Genesis 8:21.

The condition of humanity as having every inclination and imagination of their hearts only evil all the time didnโ€™t change one bit as a result of the flood. It was this way before the flood, and it was this way afterwards as well (cf. Genesis 6:5 with Genesis 8:21). If Godโ€™s goal in the flood was to teach people not to be so evil, He failed miserably, and got a lot of human blood on His hands in the process (Fretheim, God and World, 81). This not only seems overly violent, but incredibly foolish of God.

If God knew beforehand that the flood wouldnโ€™t โ€œwork,โ€ why send it?

The Traditional Way of Understanding the Flood is Incorrect

This is why the text seems to hint that God didnโ€™t send the flood. 

It appears, based on several clues within the text itself, that the traditional way of reading the text is not correct. 

Though the traditional reading is what the text seems to say on the surface, the revelation we have received in Jesus Christ challenges us to look beneath the surface of these deep and troubled waters to discern something else going on in the flood event than a violent God foolishly seeking the near-extermination of everything that breathes on earth.

noahs flood

The alternative perspective helps us understand that when worldwide destruction was coming up on the earth as a result of mankind becoming extremely evil and violent, God stepped in to save and rescue those who would follow Him. This truth is not only hinted at in Genesis 6โ€“8 itself, but also in the parallel accounts in Job, Isaiah, Matthew, and 2 Peter, all of which we have looked at earlier (See the link list on this post: When God Pled Guilty)

Genesis 6-8 Summarized

When God saw that this destruction was inevitable, He set in motion a series of events to rescue and deliver as many people as He could from this great evil. He called out Noah to build the ark and proclaim deliverance from the destruction that was coming. When that destruction came, it was not by the hand of God, but He nevertheless took the blame for it by inspiring the biblical author of Genesis 6โ€“8 to record that He was sending the flood.

In reality, far from sending the flood, God did all He could to rescue people from it. In the end, only eight people were delivered when the flood waters came upon the earth.

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Genesis 6, the flood, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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God Takes Responsibility for the Flood

By Jeremy Myers
32 Comments

God Takes Responsibility for the Flood

the floodWhen bad things happen in this world, God often takes the responsibility for them because He is the one who created a universe where such evil things are possible.

When God created the world, He did not plan for sin to enter the world and for things to get so bad that eventually He would have to send a flood to wipe out every living thing on earth. No, what happened to creation was due to human activity; not divine. 

Nevertheless, โ€œGod bears some responsibility for setting up the creation in such a way that it could go wrong and have such devastating effectsโ€ (Fretheim, God and World, 82).

The Flood Happened on God’s Watch

When the flood came, it is not something that God sent, but is something that happened under His rule, or โ€œon His watch.โ€ 

When the flood came, the text only has the waters as the subject of the verbs; not God. It says the โ€œwaters of the flood came upon the earthโ€ (Genesis 7:10, NAS) and โ€œthe fountains of the great deep burst openโ€ (Genesis 7:11, NAS). The only verbs ascribed to God in the actual flood event are when He moves to restore, save, and deliver. It is God who shut Noah and his family into the ark (Genesis 7:16), and sent the wind over the earth (Genesis 8:1). โ€œThe flood is described in natural terms as the effects of sins (of violence in particular) with no divine act of intervention; only with the subsiding of the waters is Godโ€™s activity stated explicitlyโ€ (Fretheim, God and World, 80).

Why then did God state that He would send the flood? 

God said He would send the flood because He was taking the blame for the way the world had gone. 

God inspired the Biblical author to record that He sent the flood, not because He did send it, but because it was such a terrible thing that happened in His creation and as a good God who watches over His creation, He takes responsibility for things that happen in His world, even though He Himself did not โ€œdoโ€ it.

Over and over in Genesis 7, the account says that the โ€œwaterโ€ killed every living thing (Genesis 7:17, 18, 19, 20, 24). The author of Genesis 7 is using the cosmic warfare motif to show that the waters are responsible for the death of everything that breaths; not God.

But what about Genesis 7:23? 

Here is one place where alternative translations from the Hebrew are justified, as found in various English translations. Most English translations provide the word โ€œHeโ€ (some even blatantly put in โ€œGodโ€) as the subject of the opening statement in Genesis 7:23. The New King James Version is one example (cf. also ESV, NAS, NET, NLT, RSV):

So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive.

But the Hebrew is vague about Godโ€™s involvement in sending the flood and destroying everything on earth that breathes. The King James Version shows the lack of clarity in the verse (cf. also NIV, NJB):

the floodAnd every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

This translation more closely resembles the surrounding context. The agent of the destruction is left unclear, though the immediately surrounding context indicates that the waters of the flood were responsible for taking the breath from every living thing.

In the end, the Genesis flood paints the portrait both ways. In some instances, God takes the blame for the death and destruction of all that breathes upon the earth, but in other verses, the guilty party is not so clear. It is my belief that the vagueness of the text is intentional. It is to show the readerโ€”especially those who are aware of the cosmic warfare elements of this passageโ€”that something might be going on behind the scenes which a quick surface-level reading of the text does not initially reveal.

Reading about the Flood through Christological Eyes

We now know, however, as we read about the flood through the lens of Jesus Christ, that God did not send the flood. The flood came as a result of humanityโ€™s great evil upon the earth. 

When we consider the various elements of the Chaos Theory, it seems that this particular event may have been a mixture of nature being out of control and the destroyer seeking to destroy Godโ€™s good creation. God, of course, since He has a policy of non-intervention, let nature run its course but used His wisdom and mercy to raise up Noah to build an ark and proclaim the coming flood to any and all who would listen, repent, and be saved. In the end, however, only eight were rescued through the flood. All the rest of mankind kept themselves cut off and separated from the protective hand of God.

This way of reading the text allows God to look more like Jesus Christ and less like the gods of ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia (and even most gods of our own day) who hurl fire, lighting, drought, and flood upon those who displease them. Jesus is not like that. 

He blesses His enemies and forgives those who persecute Him. He represents a God who is love, who sends rain the righteous and the unrighteous, and the sun on the evil and the good. God did not send the flood. It came as a natural consequence of the great evil that was upon the earth, and specifically in response to the evil of the sons of God having children with the daughters of men. Since there is a bond between mankind and creation, when humanity falls into evil, creation falls into chaos along with it.

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: flood, Genesis 6-8, Genesis 7, the flood, When God Pled Guilty

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Getting Up to Speed on my book, “When God Pled Guilty”

By Jeremy Myers
14 Comments

Getting Up to Speed on my book, “When God Pled Guilty”

book writingIf you have been reading this blog for the past eighteen months or so, you will know that I have been trying to write a book called When God Pled Guilty. The writing process of the book has been of twists and turns, stops and starts, but I finally feel that I am getting back on track, and so decided to write a post which kind of gets everyone up to speed and provides a bit of the back story. This is that post.

It all Began 15 Years Ago in Seminary

Though I did not initially set out to write a book on this subject, the idea for the book began about 15 years ago when I wrote a paper in Seminary about the origin of violence and evil. My proposal then was the same thing I am proposing now, that although God is not guilty for the sin and violence of the whole world, He takes the blame for it, that is, He bears responsibility for the sins of the world, because God knows that as the creator of all that is, the buck stops with Him! He is, in some sense, responsible! The primary place we see God taking responsibility in this way is in Jesus’ death on the cross.

That is what I argued 15 years ago, and have been trying to flesh out ever since. Much of this is seen in various sermons, books, articles, and writings from those fifteen years. Some of this is online; most of it is not.

A Commentary on Jonah

Two years ago I started writing a commentary on Jonah. I stalled out in chapter 1, however, because of the storm which God sent upon the sailors, and for which, there life was put in danger because of the disobedience of Jonah.

I wondered then, as many others have, “Did God really send this storm? If Jonah had not gotten thrown overboard, would God have seriously drowned these innocent sailors because of Jonah’s rebellion?” I decided then that I could not finish my life’s goal of writing commentary on the entire Bible (which seems impossible now) without fleshing out to a greater degree the proposal from 12 years earlier. 

So I set the commentary aside to research and write a full-fledged explanation of how to understand the violence of God in Scripture in light of the crucifixion of Jesus.

When God Pled Guilty

As part of my research and writing for this book, I read well over 100 books, many of which were quite helpful. Somewhere along the way, someone Tweeted to me that Greg Boyd was writing something similar, and so I checked out some of his recent sermons online and found that he does indeed seem to have a similar idea, though I still am not sure that he is arguing the same thing I am. We will have to wait and see when his book comes out.

I will fully admit though, that some of the main points of my “Chaos Theory” were gleaned from Greg Boyd’s sermons and writings. His insights into the “whirlwind” of what is going on around us in the natural and spiritual realms were really helpful in explaining some of the violence we see in the world today.

I was making what I thought was pretty good progress. I had developed my theory to my satisfaction, and then turned to Scripture to try to see if my proposed way of reading Scripture could actually make sense of the biblical text.

I started with the Flood in Genesis 6-8. That’s when I hit the wall. My theory drowned in the flood. I did the dog paddle for a while, trying to find some drift wood of the wreckage of my theory on which to float, but pretty soon, I sunk too. I wrote a lot about the flood, but I couldn’t finish my study of these chapters because it seemed I was missing some pieces to my proposal.

I had written 100,000 words for my book, and ended up with nothing but words.

book writing

I gave up for several months. I talked with some people. I read some books. Actually, I read LOTS of books.

I Read, Thought, Talked, and Wrote

read a lot of booksDuring this break, not only did I read a lot of books, but I thought a lot about the proposal, I talked with some people about it, and I wrote and wrote and wrote (Writing is how I learn and how I think).

I made some tweaks to the proposal and wording, and decided to try again. You have been seeing some of the recent developments in various posts over the past month.

By the way, even though I deleted quite a bit of my original 100,000 words, the manuscript now sits at 140,000 words. And I am only half done. Sigh. A normal book is about 50,000 words, so I don’t know what I am going to do…

Anyway, I am ready to go back and get beat over the head with the Bible. I am about to continue my wrestling match with Scripture.

Tomorrow, I am going to pick back up with the flood account and try to finish my explanation of what happened in that horrific event.

Here’s the thing though … What I write will probably make no sense to you unless you are somewhat familiar with the basic idea of my proposal, and have also read some of the background posts to the flood. So I invite you to go check some of them out. They are all listed on the When God Pled Guilty contents page.

After the flood, we will begin to work our way through some of the violent texts in Scripture, until we eventually arrive at the Book of Revelation, and then conclude with a study on Hell.

So … see you tomorrow in the flood! Hopefully I can finish the book this year!

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: books, Books by Jeremy Myers, When God Pled Guilty

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