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Are people “Only Evil Continually”? Calvinism and Genesis 6:5

By Jeremy Myers
30 Comments

Are people “Only Evil Continually”? Calvinism and Genesis 6:5

Genesis 6 5Two key texts for the Calvinistic teaching on Total Depravity are Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 8:21. Both verses state that all the intents, thoughts, and imaginations of mankind are only evil continually. Regarding these verses, Calvinistic author Edwin Palmer says this:

Note carefully the description of the wickedness. It was great. It penetrated to the deepest recesses of man. Not only to his heart, not only to the thoughts of his heart, but also to the imagination of the thoughts of his heart. Such innermost attitudes, according to the Bible, were only evil and that was continually so—all the time. Genesis 8:21 adds the information that this was not only when man was fully matured but also from his youth (Palmer, TULIP, 13).

There are numerous problems with the Calvinistic understanding of these texts.

Problem with the Calvinistic Understanding of Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 8:21

First, the texts are not statements about the sinful condition of all people throughout time, but are specifically about the people who lived at the time of the flood.

Second, the statements in these verses are not saying that men are inherently wicked in everything they do, but that the people at that time became wicked in everything they did. This is seen in part to the mysterious pairing of the sons of God and the daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4, but also to the fact that when the evil intentions of mankind is described, it is their violent actions that are specifically mentioned (Genesis 6:11-13).

The truth that humanity became evil is further supported by the Hebrew word for “intent” (Heb. yetzer) in Genesis 6:5 and “imagination” in Genesis 8:21 is the same word used in Genesis 2:7, 19 to describe how God “formed” man from the dust of the ground. The point is that just as God formed man to be good, now man is “forming” his thoughts and his actions to be only evil. Humanity was not evil inherently, but was forming himself to be evil continually.

Furthermore, if Genesis 6:5 meant that mankind had always been evil continually (since the fall of Adam and Eve), there would be no explanation for why God was only now upset at their evil, and was only now acting to stop the spread of violence upon the earth (Genesis 6:6-7).

If mankind had always been this way, God’s sorrow at the state of mankind and His decision to allow the flood waters to cover the earth make no sense. If mankind had always been this evil, then God should have always felt this way.

the flood and total depravity

Then there is the problem of Noah himself. Though the proponents of Total Depravity claim that Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 8:21 describe all of humanity all the time, Genesis 6:8-9 and 7:1 indicate that Noah was perfect in his generations and righteous before the Lord, and so was not subject to the depravity, evil, and violence that had covered the earth.

Though Calvinists may claim that Noah was only “perfect in his generations” because of God’s irresistible grace upon Noah’s life, the text of Genesis 6:8 indicates that “Noah found grace” in the eyes of God, not that God irresistibly gave grace to Noah.

It should be pointed out that there are some who argue that the righteousness of Noah had nothing to do with morality, but with the purity of his bloodline. The evil and violence that had come upon the earth, it is said, was a result of the pollution of the human race by the “sons of God” in Genesis 6:1-4. In this case, the fact that Noah was “perfect in his generations” (Genesis 6:9; cf. 7:1), does not mean that he was holy and faithful, but that the bloodline of his ancestors had not yet been corrupted by intermarrying with the “sons of God” (whatever they were) or their offspring, the Nephilim (again, whatever they were).

This post has briefly considered what Genesis 6:5 and Genesis 8:21 do not mean. In tomorrows post, we will look at how properly understand these two verses in their contexts, and what they teach us about the human condition. Until then, what are your thoughts about these verses? Do they teach Total Depravity as Calvinists claim?

If you want to read more about Calvinism, check out other posts in this blog series: Words of Calvinism and the Word of God.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Books by Jeremy Myers, Calvinism, flood, Genesis 6:5, Genesis 8:21, Theology of Sin, Total Depravity

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God Takes Responsibility for the Flood

By Jeremy Myers
32 Comments

God Takes Responsibility for the Flood

the floodWhen bad things happen in this world, God often takes the responsibility for them because He is the one who created a universe where such evil things are possible.

When God created the world, He did not plan for sin to enter the world and for things to get so bad that eventually He would have to send a flood to wipe out every living thing on earth. No, what happened to creation was due to human activity; not divine. 

Nevertheless, “God bears some responsibility for setting up the creation in such a way that it could go wrong and have such devastating effects” (Fretheim, God and World, 82).

The Flood Happened on God’s Watch

When the flood came, it is not something that God sent, but is something that happened under His rule, or “on His watch.” 

When the flood came, the text only has the waters as the subject of the verbs; not God. It says the “waters of the flood came upon the earth” (Genesis 7:10, NAS) and “the fountains of the great deep burst open” (Genesis 7:11, NAS). The only verbs ascribed to God in the actual flood event are when He moves to restore, save, and deliver. It is God who shut Noah and his family into the ark (Genesis 7:16), and sent the wind over the earth (Genesis 8:1). “The flood is described in natural terms as the effects of sins (of violence in particular) with no divine act of intervention; only with the subsiding of the waters is God’s activity stated explicitly” (Fretheim, God and World, 80).

Why then did God state that He would send the flood? 

God said He would send the flood because He was taking the blame for the way the world had gone. 

God inspired the Biblical author to record that He sent the flood, not because He did send it, but because it was such a terrible thing that happened in His creation and as a good God who watches over His creation, He takes responsibility for things that happen in His world, even though He Himself did not “do” it.

Over and over in Genesis 7, the account says that the “water” killed every living thing (Genesis 7:17, 18, 19, 20, 24). The author of Genesis 7 is using the cosmic warfare motif to show that the waters are responsible for the death of everything that breaths; not God.

But what about Genesis 7:23? 

Here is one place where alternative translations from the Hebrew are justified, as found in various English translations. Most English translations provide the word “He” (some even blatantly put in “God”) as the subject of the opening statement in Genesis 7:23. The New King James Version is one example (cf. also ESV, NAS, NET, NLT, RSV):

So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive.

But the Hebrew is vague about God’s involvement in sending the flood and destroying everything on earth that breathes. The King James Version shows the lack of clarity in the verse (cf. also NIV, NJB):

the floodAnd every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

This translation more closely resembles the surrounding context. The agent of the destruction is left unclear, though the immediately surrounding context indicates that the waters of the flood were responsible for taking the breath from every living thing.

In the end, the Genesis flood paints the portrait both ways. In some instances, God takes the blame for the death and destruction of all that breathes upon the earth, but in other verses, the guilty party is not so clear. It is my belief that the vagueness of the text is intentional. It is to show the reader—especially those who are aware of the cosmic warfare elements of this passage—that something might be going on behind the scenes which a quick surface-level reading of the text does not initially reveal.

Reading about the Flood through Christological Eyes

We now know, however, as we read about the flood through the lens of Jesus Christ, that God did not send the flood. The flood came as a result of humanity’s great evil upon the earth. 

When we consider the various elements of the Chaos Theory, it seems that this particular event may have been a mixture of nature being out of control and the destroyer seeking to destroy God’s good creation. God, of course, since He has a policy of non-intervention, let nature run its course but used His wisdom and mercy to raise up Noah to build an ark and proclaim the coming flood to any and all who would listen, repent, and be saved. In the end, however, only eight were rescued through the flood. All the rest of mankind kept themselves cut off and separated from the protective hand of God.

This way of reading the text allows God to look more like Jesus Christ and less like the gods of ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia (and even most gods of our own day) who hurl fire, lighting, drought, and flood upon those who displease them. Jesus is not like that. 

He blesses His enemies and forgives those who persecute Him. He represents a God who is love, who sends rain the righteous and the unrighteous, and the sun on the evil and the good. God did not send the flood. It came as a natural consequence of the great evil that was upon the earth, and specifically in response to the evil of the sons of God having children with the daughters of men. Since there is a bond between mankind and creation, when humanity falls into evil, creation falls into chaos along with it.

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: flood, Genesis 6-8, Genesis 7, the flood, When God Pled Guilty

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Is God a Psychotic Mass Murderer who Drowns Babies?

By Jeremy Myers
40 Comments

Is God a Psychotic Mass Murderer who Drowns Babies?

Bill Maher is back at it…

Bill Maher

Late night comedian Bill Maher told his HBO “Real Time” audience on Friday that God was a “psychotic mass murderer.” He made the comments during a conversation on the biblical story of Noah and the upcoming Hollywood version of it that’s about to hit the big screen.

“But the thing that’s really disturbing about Noah isn’t that it’s silly, it’s that it’s immoral. It’s about a psychotic mass murderer who gets away with it, and his name is God,” Mr. Maher said, adding, “What kind of tyrant punishes everyone just to get back at the few he’s mad at? I mean, besides Chris Christie.”

Mr. Maher continued: “Hey God, you know you’re kind of a [expletive] when you’re in a movie with Russell Crowe and you’re the one with anger issues. … Conservatives are always going on about how Americans are losing their values and their morality, well maybe it’s because you worship a guy who drowns babies.” [Source]

This is exactly why I am trying to write my book on the violence of God in the Bible. Christians have never had a good answer to the sorts of criticisms raised by Bill Maher.

It is NOT good enough to say, “Well, you don’t understand how evil the people were …” or “We may not understand why God did it, but we know that since God is just and righteous, even things that appear evil are actually good.”

I was recently talking with someone about the violence of God in the Bible and I pointed out that we Christians have no problem condemning the violence that Allah commands Muslims to carry out in his name … why is it okay for God to tell His people to carry out that same sort of violence?

God drowns babiesHere is how he answered: “Because our God is the one true God. The Muslims carry out their violence because they want to, and then they attach Allah’s name to their violence to justify their behavior. It’s different for people in the Bible because God truly commanded them to do what they did.”

I didn’t say it then, but this is what I thought: “If that is so, the Muslims are more righteous than we are. Which is worse? To blame a false god for the evil in your heart, or to actually worship and follow the evil instructions of God and call it good?”

Please do not misunderstand! I am NOT saying God is evil! No! Far from it!

I am saying God is good. Perfectly good. God is holy, loving, merciful, and kind.

I am saying that God looks like Jesus, and the God that Jesus reveals to us would NEVER drown babies or command people to slaughter women and children.

I am saying that Christians have never had a good answer to the sort of accusation the Bill Maher levels against Christianity. And no, this is not just Bill Maher vying for attention. Bill Maher puts into words (as only Bill Maher can) what countless millions of people actually think: They may say that they don’t want to be a Christian because they don’t want to follow all the rules, or have been burned by the church, or it would ruin all their “fun.” But these are all lame excuses.

The deep truth, the hidden secret, the thing that most people are too kind to say out loud, is that many people don’t want to become Christians because they do not want to worship the Christian God. Why not? Because according to Scripture (and according to the teaching of many who bear His name), God is the greatest villain in the universe and the only reason He gets away with it is because He is also the most powerful being in the universe.

If God did the things Scripture says He did, but as a mere human, He would be the most hated person in all of history. Are we going to give Him a pass simply because He’s “God”?

Bill Maher says “No.” God doesn’t get a pass.

I agree with Maher.

But I don’t follow Maher in condemning God. No, there is another way of seeing God in the light of Jesus which helps us read the violent depictions of God in a whole new light.

I have been studying and thinking about this subject for fifteen years so far, and have been working on a book for over a year which explains my proposal, but I am facing problems with putting it into words.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that more is coming … and soon …

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Bill Maher, Books by Jeremy Myers, flood, Noah, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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Comparing God with Hitler

By Jeremy Myers
58 Comments

Comparing God with Hitler

I talk weekly with people who are pretty antagonistic toward Christianity. One of them recently sent me this picture:

God and Hitler

It is interesting because I am still in the middle of a long series on how to understand the flood in light of Jesus Christ, and the flood is exactly what this image talks about when comparing God with Hitler.

So how would you respond to this image?

Most Christians would say something like this:  “Well, God is God and so He can do what He wants. Hitler wasn’t God, and so it was wrong for him.”

I reject that answer. If God can behave like Hitler, but it’s okay because He’s God, I don’t think God deserves our worship.

My conviction, however, is that God is not like Hitler; God is like Jesus Christ. We must read the Old Testament through the lens of Jesus, and see that Jesus shows us what God is truly like, even though much of the Old Testament portrays something quite different. When God looks violent in the Old Testament, it is not because He is violent, but because He is taking the sins of the world upon Himself, just as Jesus did on the cross.

This is a challenging proposal, and I am trying to write a book to defend it (When God Pled Guilty). But the further I go, the harder the book becomes. That is why you have been seeing fewer and fewer posts on it. I cannot decide whether to push ahead or just give up in defeat.

Any thoughts on what I should do? How do you understand the violence of God in the Bible? Also, how would you respond to that image above? 

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: flood, Hitler, violence, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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The Flood According to Job 22:15-18

By Jeremy Myers
9 Comments

The Flood According to Job 22:15-18

I am finally returning to my series on the violence of God in Scripture. We left off in the middle of a discussion about the violence of the flood. This post is going to look at the account of the flood in Job 22:15-18. If you need a refresher on some of what we have looked at previously regarding the flood and the violence of God in Scripture, feel free to brows through some of the articles listed at the bottom of this post.


Job 22There are biblical passages outside of Genesis 6–8 that refer to the flood. One of the earliest of these is Job 22:15-18. In fact, since many scholars believe that the events described in the book of Job occurred long before the author of Genesis was alive [1], what the book of Job records about the flood may well be the earliest description of what happened in that cataclysmic event. [2]

Nevertheless, some may take exception with Job 22:15-18 as saying much of anything reliable about the flood. Why? Because Job is not the speaker in Job 22:15-18. Instead, Eliphaz, one of Job’s friends, is speaking.

However, even though Eliphaz is the one speaking, this does not mean we should automatically discredit everything he says. We will consider the book of Job in more detail later in posts and see that Job is in basic agreement with most of what his friend Eliphaz says. So although Eliphaz was wrong about the reasons for Job’s suffering, this does not mean he was wrong about everything he said. Most of what Eliphaz and Job’s other friends said is true in other circumstances; their fault was that what they were saying was not true in Job’s situation.

Job 22:15-18 and the Flood

So notice what it is that Eliphaz says about the flood in Job 22:15-18:

Will you keep to the old path that the wicked have trod?
They were carried off before their time, their foundations washed away by a flood.
They said to God, “Leave us alone! What can the Almighty do to us?”
Yet it was he who filled their houses with good things…  (Job 22:15-18a, NIV)
[3]

According to Eliphaz, God’s role in the flood was to give good things to the people who lived prior to the flood (Job 22:18a), but in response, all they wanted was for God to leave them alone. They told God to depart from them!

the flood

How they told God to leave them alone is not made clear in Job 22. Maybe it was simply through their persistence in committing great evil. Maybe they said this in response to the preaching of Noah (2 Pet 2:5). Regardless of how it happened, the explanation of Eliphaz for why the flood came upon the earth is that sinful humanity pushed God away.

Eliphaz is stating the sixth principle of the Chaos Theory: that God departs from us when we depart from His protective hand. God never actually departs from us, but He has given to mankind such a high degree of autonomy and freedom, that if we choose to continue down a path of death and destruction, He will let us go, even though it pains Him greatly, and even though He does everything possible to warn us about where such paths lead.

What we see in this earliest explanation of the flood account, is that God did nothing but woo people to Himself by filling their houses with good things (Job 22:18a).

But the people thought they knew better than God, and wanted to live their own way, despite the fact that He poured out His love and care upon them, and even sent righteous Noah to warn them about the flood that was coming. Yet they did not listen, and told God to just leave them alone.

So when the destruction of the flood waters came upon the earth, God had no choice but to do what they had requested, and leave the people alone. When “alienation becomes incurable, God does, in fact, depart.” [4]


[1] Evidence for an early date of the events of Job is seen in several ways. First, Job raised two complete families and died 140 years after his testing (Job 42:16). The LXX says that he died at age 248. This puts him in the age range of Peleg (Gen 10:25), who some think might have been Job’s uncle (if Job is the Jobab of Gen 10:29). Second, Job’s wealth is listed as measured in livestock and possessions, not money, which is further evidence for an extremely early date of the events in Job. Finally, the events recorded in Job were probably events he was familiar with. This includes the post-Flood ice age (38:29-30), cave men (24:4-10; 30:1-8), and the violent aftermath of the Flood which includes earthquakes, volcanoes, windstorms, and the raiding parties which decimated his first family.

[2] Though the events of the book of Job may have occurred before Moses lived, they were probably not written down in their present form until after Moses lived, and obviously, some of the events described in Genesis occurred long before Job lived. Confused yet? The order of events is something along these lines: (1) Creation. (2) The Flood. (3) Job Lived. (4) The story of Job was passed down orally. (5) Moses lived. (6) Moses composed the Pentateuch (No, I do not hold to the JEDP documentary hypothesis), which includes Genesis 6–8. (7) The story of Job was recorded in written form, probably during the reign of King Solomon.

[3] Not surprisingly, there are a few translation problems with Job 22:17-18. The two main issues are where the quotation ends and whether the last words of Job 22:17 should read “to us” or “to them.” See the various translations for how different scholars handle this text. In my opinion, the two issues are connected. If one goes with the textual variant which ends Job 22:17 with the words “to us” (as with the NIV above) then the quote of the people who lived at the time of the flood concludes at the end of Job 22:17. But if one goes with the textual variant which ends Job 22: 17 with the words “to them,” then the quote mark should end half way through Job 22:17 where the people before the flood tell God to “Depart from us” or “Leave us alone.” The last half of Job 22:17 would then be Eliphaz’s aside about what they said. If they tell God to leave them alone, what can the Almighty do? Regardless of how one translates the text, these issues do not affect in any way the main point I am arguing here, that the people at the time of the flood told God to depart from them, to leave them alone. All translations agree on this point.

[4] Campbell, Light through the Darkness, 99.

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is z Bible & Theology Topics: flood, Job 22:15-18, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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