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Eternal Life vs. Discipleship in the Gospel of John

By Jeremy Myers
7 Comments

Eternal Life vs. Discipleship in the Gospel of John
http://media.blubrry.com/one_verse/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/499047111-redeeminggod-130-eternal-life-vs-discipleship-in-the-gospel-of-john.mp3

Many Christians seem to think that all who believe in Jesus for eternal life will automatically becomes a disciple of Jesus, and if someone says they believe in Jesus but don’t do a good job following Jesus, this proves they are not truly a believer. But this is not what Scripture teaches.

The Bible shows that there is a difference between believing in Jesus for eternal life and following Jesus on the path of discipleship. It is possible to be a believer but not a disciple, and it is possible to be a disciple and not a believer.

eternal life discipleship Gospel of John

The Gospel of John is the gospel of belief. It presents, better than any other book in the Bible, the single condition for receiving eternal life. The Gospel of John shows that eternal life is given to anyone who simply and only believes in Jesus for it (John 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; etc.).

But the Gospel of John is also great for discipleship. While the Gospel of John shows that eternal life is the free gift of God to anyone who believes in Jesus for it, it also shows that the path of discipleship has numerous other conditions and requirements. The Gospel of John does a great job showing the different conditions and results between eternal life and discipleship.

Over and over we see that after a person believes in Jesus for eternal life, He then invites these believers to follow Him on the path of discipleship. We also see that when some unbelievers have been following Him as disciples for a while, He invites them to believe in Him for eternal life.

Once you see the difference between believing in Jesus for eternal life and following Jesus on the path of discipleship, many texts in Scripture will make much more sense.

Understanding the differences between eternal life and discipleship will also liberate you from fear and legalism. You will see that God gives you eternal life freely. No good works are required to earn it, keep it, or prove that you have it. And you will see that all the passages in the Bible which call for obedience and good works are not conditions for eternal life, but for the path of discipleship and following Jesus.

Several passages from the Gospel of John make this distinction quite clear. Let us look at a few.

Gospel of John gospel of belief

Disciples who became believers (John 2:11)

This beginning of signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory; and His disciples believed in Him.

John 2 presents the first sign in the Gospel of John, the turning of water into wine at the wedding feast in Cana of Galilee (John 2:1-12). At the end of this sign, John records that some of Jesus’ disciples believed in Him (John 2:11).

In this way, John clearly reveals that these men were disciples before they were believers, but now that they had followed Jesus for a time, heard some of His teachings, and seen one of His miracles, they believed in Jesus.

Now, they were no longer just disciples; they were disciples who also believed.

So you see? It is possible to be a disciple of Jesus who has not believed in Jesus for eternal life. Jesus calls all such people to believe in Him for eternal life, and when they do, they continue on the path of discipleship as believing disciples.

But it is also possible to be a believer and not a disciple! John 2:23-25 shows this.

disciple

Believers who did not become disciples (John 2:23-25)

Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.

Some look at this text and think that these people who believed in Jesus were not “true believers” because Jesus did not commit Himself to them. But nothing in the text indicates that they were not true believers.

Since John writes that they believed in Jesus, and since John consistently writes that anyone who believes in Jesus receives eternal life, the most logical and straightforward reading of this text is to take John at his word and understand that these people believed in Jesus, and therefore, had eternal life.

But if this is so, then why did Jesus not commit Himself to them?

The reason is stated within the text.

Jesus did not commit Himself to them because he knew what was in men. And what is in men? It is that humans are reliably unreliable. You can trust that humans are untrustworthy.

So when John writes that Jesus did not yet commit Himself to these new believers, this does not mean that they were not truly believers. No, it means that Jesus knew that some of these believers might not follow Him for very long, or might not stand by Him when things became difficult.

Jesus was not yet ready to decide which of these believing disciples would form His twelve apostles. He was not yet ready to trust these new believers with all of His plans and goals for His ministry.

Jesus knew that these people who believed in Him had eternal life. But He also knew that most of them had expectations and ideas about what the Messiah would do, and very little idea about what Jesus actually intended to do.

And so while most of them would have immediately “signed on the dotted line” to become a member of Jesus’ inner circle, Jesus wisely waited. He knew that many of them would stop following Him after they learned a little bit more about Him and what He had come to do.

But again, remember, even though they might stop following Him, this does not mean that they never believed in the first place. The text says they did, and only those who deny what the text says can argue that these people were not “true believers.”

And Jesus was wise to not entrust Himself to these believers, for a few chapters later, some of them do indeed turn away from Him. In fact, John 6:60-66 shows that there are five possible combinations of believers and disciples.

eternal life hard to believe

 

There are FIVE combinations of Believers and Disciples (John 6:60-66)

Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?” When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? … But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. … From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more (John 6:60-61, 64, 66).

As John’s Gospel account of Jesus continues into John 6, we are introduced to some of the hard teachings of Jesus that caused some of his disciples to stop following Him. Jesus taught that His disciples that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood if they were going to participate with Him.

He was, of course, speaking figuratively, but some of His disciples did not like what He said, and so they turned away and stopped following Him.

Yet many of the listening Jewish audience also did not like to hear such things.

We do not know how many disciples were present when Jesus said this, yet John writes that Jesus knew which of them believed in Him and which did not. This means that among this large group of disciples, some of them were believers while others were unbelievers. But they were still all disciples.

However, after the hard teaching of Jesus, many of these people stopped being a disciple. The text says they “walked with Him no more.”

While the reader is tempted to think that it was only the unbelieving disciples who turned away from Jesus, John flips the table on such an understanding by revealing in John 6:71 that Judas Iscariot was among those who stayed. Since Judas appears to be an unbelieving disciple who continues to follow Jesus, it seems possible that there were believing disciples who stopped following Jesus.

Believing in Jesus is no guarantee of ongoing discipleship to Jesus.

So here in the context of John 6, there are five groups of people who relate differently to Jesus:

First, there are the unbelieving non-disciples of Jesus who do not follow Him and do not believe in Him (John 6:41-59).

Second and third, there are believing and unbelieving disciples who stop following Jesus (John 6:66).

Fourth, there are unbelieving disciples who continue to follow Jesus. Judas might have been one of these, though the text does not say if there were others (John 6:70-71).

Finally, there were the believing disciples who committed themselves to following Jesus no matter where He led, because He had the words of eternal life (John 6:67-69).

The reader of this text is supposed to ask which group they themselves belong to. Which group do you belong to?

John 8:30-32

As He spoke these words, many believed in Him. Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed in Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

This passage is important because it clearly shows the two different conditions for becoming a believer and becoming a disciple.

In John 8:30, a group of people believe in Jesus, and since we know from elsewhere in the Gospel of John that whoever believes in Jesus receives everlasting life (John 3:16; 5:24; 6:47) we can know that those who believed in Jesus here received everlasting life (see Everlasting Life).

However, in the very next verse, Jesus speaks to those who believed in Him and says that if they abide in His word, they will also be His disciples (John 8:31). To “abide” means to remain, stay, continue, or dwell (see Abide).

follow Jesus

If they stayed with Jesus in this way, they would come to know the truth, and the truth would set them free. The implication is that they were not yet His disciples, but if they remained with Jesus, and followed His teachings, then they would become His disciples.

Of course, the opposite is also true. If they stopped abiding in the teachings of Jesus Christ, then they would no longer be His disciples. They would not learn the truth, and would instead remain enslaved to sin and their rebellious ways.

But would they still have eternal life? Yes, of course!

Abiding is not a condition of eternal life; eternal life is a free gift of God’s grace to all who believe in Jesus for it.

Bob Wilkin says this:

The context clearly distinguishes between being a believer (John 8:30) and being a disciple (John 8:31-32). The former occurs at a point in time and is conditioned only upon believing in Christ. The latter occurs over time and is conditioned upon ongoing obedience and good works.

Many pastors and scholars go on to note, however, that in the following context, Jesus speaks to some Jewish leaders who were there and says that they are of their father the devil, and even says that they do not believe Him (John 8:44-45).

These pastors teach that these nonbelieving Jews are the same as the believing Jews that Jesus speaks to in John 8:30-32. But how can this be? If John says that these Jews did believe, and then a few verses later, Jesus says they did not believe, this is a clear contradiction in the Bible.

There best solution to this problem is to recognize that there appears to be two different groups of Jews in the context: believing Jews and non-believing Jews.

Most of the dialogue in the context is between Jesus and the nonbelieving Jews. Many of them are among the religious Pharisees (John 8:13) who only want to challenge what Jesus says and does.

They do not believe in Him, nor do they follow Him. In the context, they raise one objection after another to everything Jesus says (cf. John 8:19, 22, 25, 33, 39, 41). Charlie Bing says that such objections are “totally out of character with the inclination of those mentioned in John 8:31-32.”

So there are two groups of Jews in the text: a group of believing Jews, whom Jesus addresses in John 8:31-32, and a group of unbelieving, antagonistic Jews, whom Jesus addresses in the rest of the passage.

Admittedly, the pronouns in the text make it appear that Jesus is speaking to one group throughout the entire text, but if this is so, then the Bible has a contradiction within just a few verses, where John says they do believe and Jesus says they don’t.

It is far better to recognize that there are two types of people in a larger group. In this one large group, there are some who believe and some who don’t (this also fits with modern church contexts).

Jesus warns those who do not believe in Him that they will die in their sins (John 8:24) and are of their father the devil who leads only to murder and violence (John 8:44), while at the same time, He encourages those who believe in Him to follow Him further into freedom and liberty (John 8:32, 36).

Believing in Jesus is the sole condition for receiving eternal life, but abiding in Jesus and His word is one of many the conditions of being His disciple so that we can fully experience freedom in Him.

So if you have believed in Jesus for eternal life, what are some of the conditions for following Jesus as a disciple? The Gospel of John includes many of these as well.

Love the Poor

Love one another to be a Disciple of Jesus (John 13:35)

“By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

In John 13:35, Jesus provides the defining characteristic of one of His disciples. He says that they will love one another.

Love for others is how people can recognize true disciples of Jesus Christ.

It is critically important to recognize that loving one another is not a condition for receiving eternal life, or else nobody would have eternal life, for nobody fully loves all the Christians they interact with.

Many Christians are quite difficult, if not impossible, to consistently love, and so if this were a condition for receiving eternal life, nobody would have it.

So thankfully, Jesus is not talking here about how to receive eternal life, but how to be recognized as one of His disciples.

Note as well that this is not even about saying that you love other Christians, but about being recognized by others for your love.

Far too often, the world looks at Christians and says that we are unloving.

Oddly, the default Christian response to such an accusation from the world is to argue. We say things like, “Well, you only say that because we don’t condone sin. We are only standing up for what is right. It’s not loving to hide the truth. I love the sinner, but I hate the sin. If you come to our church, then you will see how truly loving we are.”

If a non-Christian says that Christians are not loving, and our only response is to argue, we should not wonder why they don’t believe us.

In fact, far from being known for our love, some Christians seem to strive to be known for their hate. They seem to think that a true Christian will be hated.

I overheard two guys in the store the other day who were both wearing Christian t-shirts. One was saying to the other, “Yeah, they all hate me at work, but that’s okay, because I’m standing up for Christ.”

But Jesus says that we should be known by our love, which means that we will not only love others, but will also be loved by others. Just like Jesus was. The only people who hated Jesus were the religious elites. So if religious people love you, but “sinners” hate you, you are probably not following Jesus.

As a side note, the ironic thing about Christian T-shirts themselves is that people often depend on them to tell others that they follow Jesus.

But Jesus says that if you are His disciple, you won’t have to tell people. They will know it by your love. If you have to depend on a T-shirt to tell others that you are following of Jesus, you might not be following Him very well.

Jesus does say, of course, that His disciples will be known by their love for one another. Some take this to mean that love for other Christians is our priority, and we shouldn’t worry about whether or not non-Christians feel loved by us.

Jesus does say, after all, the since the world hated Him, it will also hate His followers (John 15:18; cf. 1 John 3:13). John writes elsewhere that we should not love the world or anything in the world, for friendship with the world is enmity with God (1 John 2:15-17; cf. James 4:4).

The best way to understand these texts, however, is to recognize that the term “world” is referring to the “world domination system” that is opposed to God and His ways. We should love all the people in the world, but not how they are enslaved to the values and domination system of this world.

In fact, religious people tend to be more enslaved to the world domination system than non-religious people. This is why it is mostly religious people, rather than the “sinners,” who hated Jesus during His ministry.

In the Gospels, the only people who really hated Jesus were the religious leaders who had sold out to the world domination system and were using it to control and manipulate others. It was those whom many would consider “worldly” that loved Jesus and were loved by Him. So if sinful, “worldly” people hate you but religious people love you, you might not be following Jesus.

Jesus friend of sinners

If you are not a friend to sinners, you are not a friend to Jesus.

So yes, Christians will first and foremost be known by their love for “one another.” But this love must overflow into love for “the other,” that is, into love for people in this world.

If we want to tell people we are followers of Jesus, we do it by loving them and loving one another.

The person who loves others unconditionally but doesn’t claim to follow Jesus is closer to the Kingdom of God than those who claim to follow Jesus but doesn’t love others unconditionally.

If love is of God, and everybody who loves is born of God and knows God because God is love (1 John 4:7-8), then it only makes sense that love will be the prevailing characteristic of one who is born of God and know God.

It is not a person’s words that make him or her a Christian, or what they post on Facebook or wear on their T-shirts, or even how many Bible verses they can quote, how often they attend church and Bible studies, or whether they can “take a stand for Christ.”

They will know we are Christians by our love.

If you have not love, they will never know you are a Christian, no matter how much you tell them you are.

In light of John 13:35, then, the question we should be asking is not “Am I a follower of Jesus?” but rather, “Do I love others like Jesus so that they know I am His disciple?” This question leads to related questions:

  • Do my words sound like words Jesus might say?
  • Do my actions look like things Jesus might do?
  • Do I love unconditionally, forgive freely, serve sacrificially, and accept all?
  • Do I challenge the religious status-quo for setting up barriers to God and creating groups of us vs. them?
  • Do I break down the walls of religion by eating with the so-called ‘tax-collectors and sinners’?

These are the sort of ways that others will know that you are a disciple of Jesus. When we love others in this way, we will be bearing much fruit as a disciple of Jesus Christ. This is what He talks about in John 15:8.

disciple of Jesus

Bear Fruit to be a Disciple of Jesus (John 15:8)

“By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.”

There is a lot of debate over vine and branches imagery of John 15, and whether or not the branches which do not bear fruit are truly Christians or not.

Note that this passage is not about how to receive eternal life, but rather about living as a disciple of Jesus Christ. Those who abide in Jesus Christ and His teachings will bear fruit (see Abide), and in this way, they will show that they are His disciples.

If a person does not bear fruit, all it proves is that they are not His disciple. Nothing is said one way or the other about whether or not such a person has believed in Jesus for eternal life.

Just as both believers and unbelievers can follow the teachings of Jesus and see positive results in their lives (and the lives of others), so also, both believers and unbelievers can ignore the teachings of Jesus and experience negative consequences in their lives as a result. These negative consequences are symbolized by the fire in John 15:6 (see Fire).

So neither good works nor the lack of good works prove anything about whether or not a person has eternal life.

Good works can indicate whether or not a person is following the teachings of Jesus, and while most disciples are also believers, this is not always the case, and so we should avoid trying to determine someone’s eternal destiny based on their works.

Instead, we should invite all people to look to Jesus Christ alone, and believe in Him for eternal life. Once they have done this, we can also invite them to follow Jesus so that they will bear much fruit and live the abundant life (see Abundant Life).

believer vs disciple

Be a Believer AND a Disciple

For the best experience of this life, it is important to BOTH believe in Jesus for eternal life AND follow Jesus on the path of discipleship.

But we must always make sure we understand the differences between these two.

Eternal life is the absolutely free gift of God by His grace to anyone and everyone who simply and only believes in Jesus for it. There are no strings attached. There is no fine print. There are no ongoing good works attached on the back end.

Eternal life is freely received, and once it is given, it cannot be revoked or taken back.

Discipleship, however, is where the real joy and fulfillment in Christianity comes from. It has numerous conditions, and requires much sacrifice and persistence. It is not free. It calls you to love, serve, and give.

Following Jesus as a disciple is the greatest challenge you will face in life, but also the greatest thrill, and it prepares us for what life will be like with God in eternity.

So for the best experience NOW in this life, and the best foretaste of what life will be like in eternity, believe in Jesus for eternal life AND ALSO seek to follow Jesus on the path of discipleship.

When you understand the difference between these two offers, all of Scripture will make more sense, and you will better understand where you are at with God and as a follower of Jesus.

Questions? Let me know in the comment section below! And also join the discipleship group, where we learn a lot more about these types of topics and questions.

The Gospel DictionaryUnderstanding the Gospel requires us to properly understand the key words and terms of the Gospel. Take my course, "The Gospel Dictionary" to learn about the 52 key words of the Gospel, and hundreds of Bible passages that use these words.

This course costs $297, but when you join the Discipleship group, you can to take the entire course for free.

God is Redeeming God, Redeeming Scripture, Redeeming Theology, z Bible & Theology Topics: Discipleship, eternal life, following Jesus, Gospel of John, John 13:35, John 15:8, John 2:11, John 2:23-25, John 6:60-66, John 8:30-32

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Does the Sermon on the Mount tell you how to receive eternal life? (An Interview with Kent Young)

By Jeremy Myers
4 Comments

Does the Sermon on the Mount tell you how to receive eternal life? (An Interview with Kent Young)
http://media.blubrry.com/one_verse/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/496071402-redeeminggod-129-how-to-understand-the-sermon-on-the-mount-with-kent-young.mp3

As part of this article on the Sermon on the Mount, I introduce the proper way to read and understand the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7, and then I also interview Kent Young about his excellent commentary on the Sermon on the Mount.

In our discussion we look at these three Bible verses:

Matthew 5:22: “… But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.”

Matthew 5:29-30: “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that once of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut if off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.”

Matthew 7:13a “… Enter through the narrow gate …”

Kent’s commentary on the Sermon on the Mount, titled Theirs is the Kingdom, is available as a free download on his website, or as a (#AmazonAdLink) paperback on Amazon.com

Sermon on the Mount

How to Read and Apply the Sermon on the Mount

Matthew 5:1 begins the famous “Sermon the Mount” in Matthew 5–7.

At the beginning of this teaching, Jesus notices a multitude of people following Him, and so He goes up on a mountain to teach His disciples. At this point in His ministry, Jesus had not yet selected the twelve disciples to be His closest followers (cf. Matt 10:1-4; Luke 6:12-16), and so this time of teaching was not just to a select few disciples, but to the entire multitude of followers.

It cannot be imagined that every single person in the multitude of disciples was already a believer, and so this is a message that invited the followers of Jesus—whether they were believers or not—to listen to His teachings about a better way to live.

Nowhere in the Sermon on the Mount does Jesus talk about how to receive eternal life. Eternal Life isn’t even mentioned.

Why not? Because the Sermon on the Mount contains instructions about how to live this life, not instructions about how to receive eternal life.

And anybody, believer and unbeliever alike, can benefit from the instructions of Jesus about how best to live.

The Sermon on the Mount is not about Eternal Life

It is critical to recognize that the Sermon on the Mount does not contain the offer of eternal life, because if we get confused on this fact, we will think that one gains eternal life by fulfilling the conditions and requirements Jesus talks about in this Sermon.

For example, if Jesus is telling people how to receive eternal life, then we gain eternal life by being mournful, meek, and merciful, by being poor in spirit, peacemakers, and persecuted (Matt 5:3-12).

If Jesus is teaching about how to receive eternal life, then we must make sure our righteousness exceeds that of the most religiously righteous people in Jesus’ day (Matt 5:20).

If Jesus is teaching about how to receive eternal life, we must not hate or lust (Matt 5:21-28). If you do lust, you better pluck out your eye and cut off your hand if you want to spend eternity with God (Matt 5:29-30).

If Jesus is telling people how to receive eternal life, then according to Him, you must refrain from making oaths, go the second mile, and love your enemies even when they hate you and try to kill you (Matt 5:33-47).

Ultimately, if Jesus is teaching about how to have eternal life, you need to be perfect just as God is perfect (Matt 5:48).

All of the preceding statements come from the first chapter of the Sermon on the Mount. There are two more to go.

Matthew 5-7 sermon on the mount

If you believe the Sermon on the Mount is about eternal life, you will fall into legalism

When people think that the Sermon on the Mount is about “how to gain eternal life” they end up adding all sorts of good works to the free offer of eternal life through “faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.”

And when a person adds all the calls to obedience of the Sermon on the Mount to the free offer of eternal life, this causes many people to despair of ever gaining eternal life from God.

Indeed, if the Sermon on the Mount contains the conditions for receiving eternal life, not a single person would ever achieve it.

How to Understand the Sermon the Mount

Thankfully, there is a much better way of understanding this Sermon from Jesus.

Jesus is not telling people how to gain eternal life. Instead, Jesus is teaching His disciples about the best way to live this life.

Jesus teaches sermon on the mountJesus is teaching people about the requirements of following Him and being His disciple. Clearly, nobody can ever fulfill or accomplish all these requirements, yet there is something in here for everyone, and nobody will ever get bored in trying to follow Jesus.

So whether you are a believer or not, the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount will challenge you to live in the way that God wants and intends for humanity.

But never think that these teachings will help you earn or gain eternal life for yourself. To receive eternal life, the only thing that is needed is to believe in Jesus for it.

Difficult Texts in the Sermon on the Mount

With this understanding of the Sermon on the Mount, we are in a better position to understand some of the troublesome texts it contains.

To help with some of the tricky texts of the Sermon on the Mount, listen to the podcast interview I did with Kent Young, and then get his book, Theirs is the Kingdom, as a free download on his website, or as a (#AmazonAdLink) paperback on Amazon.com

The Gospel DictionaryUnderstanding the Gospel requires us to properly understand the key words and terms of the Gospel. Take my course, "The Gospel Dictionary" to learn about the 52 key words of the Gospel, and hundreds of Bible passages that use these words.

This course costs $297, but when you join the Discipleship group, you can to take the entire course for free.

God is Redeeming God, Redeeming Scripture, Redeeming Theology, z Bible & Theology Topics: believe in Jesus, Discipleship, eternal life, gospel dictionary, make disciples, Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:29-30, Matthew 7:13, One Verse Podcast, sermon on the mount

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Did the Flood of Genesis 6-8 really happen, and if so, did God really send it?

By Jeremy Myers
18 Comments

Did the Flood of Genesis 6-8 really happen, and if so, did God really send it?

The flood of Genesis 6-8 is one of the most troubling passages of Scripture due to its violent portrayal of God. In general, there are three approaches to understanding the flood event.

1. Resistance is futile! Assimilate or die!

This view says this about Genesis 6-8:

It happened exactly as the text says, and God is sometimes very violent. Deal with it. If you don’t like this, God will probably be even more violent toward you in eternity when you burn in hell. But I love God, so He’ll be nice to me. And even though God said He would never again destroy the earth with water (Genesis 8:21), in the future, God will send a flood of fire upon the earth to destroy everyone again (2 Peter 3:6-7).

the waters of the flood(Note: I include Greg Boyd’s “Divine Withdrawal” view in this category. He argues that God finally got fed up with the evil of mankind, and so He withdrew His divine hand of protection that was holding back the destructive floodwaters, thereby allowing them to destroy humanity. In this view, God didn’t do the destroying Himself; He simply stepped back to let the destroyer have its way with humanity. In a personal conversation with Greg Boyd, I related to him the following video clip, and he agreed that for the most part, it represents his position.)

2. Flood? What flood? We don’t need no stinking flood!

This second view says this about Genesis 6-8:

The account is some sort of myth. Maybe it complete fiction. Maybe it’s a fable of some sort that teaches a lesson about God’s hatred of sin. Maybe there was some sort of local flood that might have happened a long time ago, but it certainly didn’t cover the earth and kill everyone. Whatever happened (if anything happened at all), it didn’t happen as the text says.

People who hold this view also reject the historical accuracy of many other passages in Scripture as well. Some will even reject the historicity of the miracles of Jesus, including His resurrection.

I have never been comfortable with calling anything in Scripture an error, partly because such an approach often allows people to simply pick and choose which passages they like and which ones they don’t, consigning the texts they don’t like into hermeneutical oblivion. In other words, writing off a text as “error” allows a person to avoid seriously studying and teaching that text, thereby ignoring or missing the deep truth(s) it contains.

3. The Correct View

(That’s a joke! I’m proposing a view, which I think has a lot of merit in Scripture…)

(Oh, and I believe the flood truly happened. I believe the worldwide flood is an historical event. There is lots of sociological and geological support for the flood, which I won’t dive into here. But regardless, my view of the flood can still be true even if there was no worldwide flood.)

Before I suggest a third view, note two things from the text:

1. People were violent before the flood (Genesis 6:5, 11, 13).

The stated reason for God sending the flood is because the earth was filled with violence. God seems opposed to how violent mankind has come, and so decides to do something about it.

2. People were violent after the flood (Genesis 8:21)

The flood brought no change to the evil and violent tendencies of the human heart.

Isn’t this strange? If the stated reason for the flood was to stop the violence of humanity, then God seems to have failed in His task of stopping violence. Is God so foolish that He couldn’t look at the hearts of humanity before the flood and see that even if He killed them all, the survivors and their descendants would continue to constantly live with evil hearts and violent lives?

To ask the question is to answer it. Of course God is not foolish! Something else must be going on behind the scenes.

So … Wait … God hates violence?

As soon as we start looking for what this “something else” might be, some other details from the text start to jump out from the page.

For example … God states at the beginning of the account that He is sorry He made mankind because they are so evil and violent (Genesis 6:6).

Ok, so God is opposed to violence. That’s a good thing.

But then … to show how opposed He is to all the violence that covers the face of the earth … God engages in the greatest act of violence possible by drowning all the people and animals on the earth (except for those on the ark)?

So to stop the violence that covers the earth, God sends a violent flood to cover the earth?

Something’s not right here.

Yes, “God is God and can do what He wants,” but this seems a bit over the top, even for God.

family drowning in the floodIs this just a divine example of the bad parenting advice “Do as I say; not as I do?”

If so, then since we become like the God we worship, it is no wonder that people were just as violently evil after the flood as they were before.

It is a very, very tiny step from believing that “God is extremely violent against evil people” to “God wants me to engage in violence against evil people.” Indeed, the rest of biblical history (along with all human culture) reveals this exact step taking place over and over and over again.

If God really is so violent, why wasn’t Jesus?

Jesus was adamantly opposed to all forms of murderous violence, even against His so-called “enemies.”

He didn’t call down fire from heaven, but rather rebuked His disciples for thinking such things (Luke 9:54). He didn’t call down angels to defend Himself (Matthew 26:53). He even told Peter to put away His sword, and then He healed the man that Peter has struck (Matthew 26:52).

Yes, Jesus cleansed the temple, but no human or animal died, nor does the text say anyone was even hurt (Matthew 21:12-17; Mark 11:15-19; Luke 19:45-48; John 2:13-16). Yes, Jesus told his disciples to buy a sword , but this was to fulfill prophecy; not so they could actually use it. And don’t even get me started on the book of Revelation.

If it is true, as Scripture says, that Jesus fully reveals God to us (John 1:14, 18; 14:9-11; 2 Cor 4:4; Php 2:6; Col 1:15; Heb 1:2-3), but Jesus was never violent, then we are faced with a choice: Either (A) God truly is violent and Scripture is lying when it says that Jesus fully reveals God to us, or (B) Scripture is not lying, and Jesus does truly reveal God to us, and therefore God is not violent, and we need to understand all those violent texts in some other way.

I go with Option B: Scripture is not lying, and Jesus is not violent, so neither is God.

Isn’t that a contradiction?

If Scripture is not lying, but Scripture says God is violent, while Jesus shows that God is not violent, isn’t this a contradiction?

It initially seems so.

But with one small little tweak on how you read the Bible, it all falls into place.

Most people think the Bible reveals God to us. And while it does to some extent, the ultimate revelation of God is found in Jesus Christ (whom we read about in Scripture, of course). But Jesus shows us how to read the Bible. Jesus provides the interpretive lens through which to study Scripture.

Jesus crucifiedAnd when we look to Jesus, and specifically the most violent aspect of the life of Jesus, His crucifixion, and we carefully see what is being done to Jesus on the cross, we discover something surprising.

God didn’t kill Jesus on the cross; we humans killed Jesus on the cross … and we blamed God for it. Humans killed Jesus and claimed they did so in God’s name, to fulfill God’s will.

But they weren’t fulfilling God’s will. They were doing the opposite. They were committing the greatest sin in human history. And they were completely ignorant of what they were doing. This is why Jesus prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).

Through the cross, we see Jesus showing us how to understand the “violence of God.” The “violence of God” against Jesus on the cross is not God’s violence at all, but is rather the violence of humans which we then blame God for.

Since we (1) Believe God is violent, we (2) become like the God we worship by engaging in our own violence, and (3) justify our violent actions by blaming our violence on God.

But Jesus entered into this twisted framework of violent theology and blew it up from the inside. Through His death and resurrection, Jesus showed (1) that God is supremely non-violent and that (2) we humans are the violent ones.

Once we see this revelation of Jesus on the cross, we then discover that all the other violent portions of Scripture reveal exactly the same thing.

The violent texts of the Bible do not reveal God to us … they reveal us to us. The violent passages of Scripture are not a revelation of the heart of God; they are a revelation of the heart of humanity.

But humans didn’t send the flood!

So now we come back around to the flood. The flood event is extremely violent, and the text blames this violence on God. This fact invites us to read the flood through the lens of the crucifixion.

2 Peter 2 the flood

And when we do, we realize that the flood account of Genesis 6–8 sounds like the explanation that is offered for any natural disaster throughout human history.

“God sent Hurricane Katrina on the people of New Orleans because of Mardi Gras and Voodoo.”

“God sent the Indonesian Tsunami because the people there are Muslim and Hindu.”

“God caused my neighbor to get in a car wreck because he said some profane things about God when I invited him to church.”

Meanwhile, God, through Jesus Christ, is saying,

“NO! No no no no no! Please stop saying such things! I didn’t send those storms. I didn’t kill those people. I love them and forgive them as my own children! It was a terrible disaster that happened to those people, and my only involvement is to weep and mourn with them, while calling you to go help them!

“But as long as you think I am punishing them, you will continue to sit and gloat at the disaster that has come upon your enemies. But your enemies are not my enemies, for I have no enemies. I call you to love your enemies, for they are my children too.”

So What Happened in the Flood?

I believe the flood account of Genesis 6–8 was written many thousands of years after it actually happened, and is therefore a human explanation for an actual historical event. I believe it is an inspired and inerrant account of the human explanation for a natural disaster, and as such, it invites us to see how we humans explain natural disasters today.

The flood event of Genesis 6-8 contains all the signs of a human rationalization for a violent natural disaster:

The people committed great sin (Genesis 6:1-4) and became monsters. They were so bad, they did nothing but evil all the time (Genesis 6:5, 11, 13). And so God destroyed them all! Yay! But … it didn’t really work, because we’re still pretty violent. So be careful … If you sin against God, He might destroy you too!

Do you see? A flood did occur. It was a terrible natural disaster unlike anything the world had ever seen. After the fact, the few survivors started to postulate about why such a disaster occurred, and, just like every human before and since that time, they decided that God sent the disaster to punish humans for their sin.

But now, in Jesus, we have learned that this is not what God does. So when we read the flood account of Genesis 6–8, we no longer read it as a warning about what God might do to us if we sin, but rather as a warning about how we will be tempted to think and act when we see bad thing happen to other people.

the flood and total depravityLooking at our face in the mirror of Genesis 6–8, we must ward ourselves against the common human practice of condemning others when bad things happen to them. We must stop saying, “Well, he lost his job and got cancer, so God must be punishing him for some secret sin.” (Remember Job?) Instead, when bad things happen to people, we must, like Jesus, enter into their hellish pain and sorrow, and help them or love them in in any way we can.

When bad things happen to others, we must remind them (and ourselves) that God did send the disaster and is not punishing them for sin. Instead, He is with them in their suffering and grieving for their loss.

So the flood account is a hard text to read. Not because it reveals a God before whom we must cower in fear and trembling, but because it reveals to us the blackness of our own sinful hearts when we prefer to condemn others in God’s name rather than help them through their pain.

The next time something bad happens to a family member, friend, or foe, how will you respond?

This post was part of the September 2018 Synchroblog on the topic of the flood. Here are the other contributors to this month’s topic. Go and read them all!

  • The Flood Story – K. W. Leslie
  • A Flood of Insightful Hope – Jordan Hathcock
  • There will Never Be a World Wide Flood Again but Was There Ever One in the First Place? – Done with Religion
  • The Flood as a Foreshadowing to the Cross of Christ – God is Not like Thanos from the Infinity War – Scott Sloan\
  • The Great Flood: 7 Amazing Lessons Every Christian Needs To Know – Joseph A. Brown
  • Is God like Thanos from the Avengers Infinity War? – Scott and Sadie
  • The Flood is a Remedy for Corruption – Tomasz Leszczynski
  • Did God Really Drown Millions in the Flood? – Mike Edwards

God is Redeeming Scripture, Redeeming Theology, z Bible & Theology Topics: crucifxion of Jesus, flood, Genesis 6-8, Genesis 6:1-4, Genesis 6:11, Genesis 6:13, Genesis 6:5, Genesis 8:21, inerrancy of Scripture, synchroblog, violence of God

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Are “believers in Jesus” and “disciples of Jesus” the same thing?

By Jeremy Myers
28 Comments

Are “believers in Jesus” and “disciples of Jesus” the same thing?
http://media.blubrry.com/one_verse/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/496070586-redeeminggod-128-are-believers-and-disciples-the-same-thing-matthew-1037-39.mp3

Here is a truth that will help you unpack many tricky and often-misunderstood Bible passages:

Though all believers have eternal life,
Not all believers are disciples, and
Not all disciples are believers.

It seems a little confusing at first, but if we think through each statement a little more slowly, it all makes sense.

believer vs disciple

Let’s unpack the statements one at a time:

All believers have eternal life

We know from numerous Bible passages that anyone who believes in Jesus has eternal life.

Jesus makes this claim over and over in the Gospel of John (cf. John 3:16; 5:24; 6:47).

There should be nothing too controversial about this statement by Jesus, but strangely, many Christians don’t agree with Jesus on this matter. Many say that faith alone in Jesus Christ alone is not enough, for we also need to submit our lives to Jesus, obey Jesus, follow Jesus, and perform all sorts of good works to prove that we truly belong to Jesus.

But if you look at all of the Bible passages which contain instructions for these sorts of things, they ALL are talking about becoming a follower, or disciple, of Jesus. They are NOT talking about receiving the free gift of eternal life from Jesus.

This leads to the second statement from above:

Not all believers are disciples

Ancient discipleship was very close to what we call apprenticeship. A person would follow and learn from a master teacher or craftsman in order to become like him and do what he did (Matt 10:25; Luke 6:40).

This usually progressed in four stages: First, he listens to the master’s instructions. Second, he watches the master perform the action. Third, he performs the action with the master’s help. Fourth, he is able to perform the action on his own, and starts teaching it to others.

A mathētēs (disciple) who only listened to the master teach but never progressed out of the classroom, would never be considered a true disciple, even if they could recite from memory everything the teacher had ever said.

While “classroom” teaching and learning was part of the discipleship process, it was only the very first part. A student who never progressed past the classroom would not be considered successful. While learning was important, putting into practice what had been learned was the most important.

A true disciple not only learns what the teacher knows, but also practices what the teacher does (cf. Luke 6:40).

All of this means, of course, that true discipleship is a lifelong process, especially when we think of being a disciple of Jesus.

follow Jesus on path of discipleshipSince no person can ever fully learn everything Jesus has to teach, and no person can ever fully resemble and practice everything that Jesus leads us to do, all who are disciples of Jesus will spend their entire lives learning from Jesus and following in His footsteps.

Since this is so, is should be immediately obvious that there are major differences between believing in Jesus for eternal life and being a disciple of Jesus.

For example, once a person receives eternal life through faith in Jesus, they have eternal life forever. They receive the free gift of eternal life immediately upon believing in Jesus, and nothing they can say or do in the future will cause God to take away this eternal life from them.

Discipleship, however, is not instantaneous, is not a free gift of God, and has numerous ongoing conditions.

While a person cannot lose their eternal life, they can stop being a disciple if they fail to meet the conditions.

Therefore, as you can see, it is possible to believe in Jesus for eternal life, but fail in several aspects of discipleship. Such a person is still part of the family of God, but they are not properly participating in the activities of the family of God.

God will not kick them out of His family for such inactivity, but will continue to seek to teach, train, call, and maybe even discipline these children so that they will grow up from infancy and become productive members of His family.

But this leads to another surprising insight … the third statement from above:

Not all disciples are believers

Just as it is quite possible for someone to believe in Jesus, but not become a fully-committed follower of Jesus, it is also possible for someone to follow Jesus as a disciple, but never actually believe in Him for eternal life.

Judas Iscariot might be one example, but there are other examples in the Gospel accounts, such as those who follow Jesus for a while, but then leave Him when the going gets tough (cf. John 6). It appears that many of those who left didn’t believe in Jesus for eternal life.

believers and disciples

Even in modern times, we all know people who consider Jesus to be a good moral teacher, and try to follow His example and teaching, and yet who still believe that their own good works and moral living is how they will earn eternal life for themselves.

Such people are certainly disciples of Jesus, for they listen to much of what He says and follow His example, but they do not have eternal life because they have not believed in Jesus for eternal life.

Mahatma Gandhi repeatedly said that he did his best to follow the teachings and example of Jesus, especially what Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount. It is too bad we Christians do not follow the example of Gandhi in this regard! However, as far as we know, Gandhi never believed one of the main things that Jesus taught, which is that God gives eternal life to anyone who believes in Jesus for it.

Sadly, there are probably many who call themselves Christians who do their best to follow Jesus, and yet who have not believed in Jesus for eternal life but instead continue to trust in their own good works and effort to earn everlasting life for themselves.

Seek to be BOTH a believer AND a Disciple

If you want the full experience of the Christian life, you should not only believe in Jesus for eternal life, but also seek to follow Jesus in the path of discipleship. This way, you not only have eternal life from Jesus, but the abundant life with Jesus.

You not only get to be part of the family of God, but also get to join in the thrilling adventures that God goes on with His active family members.

Let me provide one example of how this helps us understand Scripture.

Matthew 10:37-39 is about discipleship; not eternal life

Matthew 10:37-39 contains several more costly and difficult conditions for the person who would be a disciple of Jesus.

In the previous context, Jesus said that His teachings would create division and strife between family members (Matt 10:34-36). Jesus says that if this happens, His disciples must choose to follow Him rather than stay committed to their family. In the parallel passage of Luke 14:26-33, Jesus says that His disciples must even “hate” their family members.

These passages have been widely misunderstood, primarily because we do not live in the honor and shame culture of Jesus’ day. In a culture that was governed by honor and shame, turning away from family business, family traditions, and family culture to follow other traditions was akin to hating your family.

In that culture, there was no greater way to bring shame on your family. If a person told their family that they were going to give up the family inheritance, not follow through on the family business, and not following the family traditions, the other family members would feel slighted, insulted, shamed, and even hated. They might say, “Why do you hate us so much to turn your back on your traditions?”

Jesus is saying that in such situations, there might not be anything one of His followers can do.

We should never hate our family members or treat them in unloving ways, of course. Such behavior has nothing to do with following Jesus.

But when we follow Jesus, other family members are likely to misunderstand. They might even (wrongly) feel that we hate them.

And while we are to always show our family members love, and invite them to follow Jesus along with us, if they force us to choose between Jesus and family, Jesus is saying that His disciples will choose Him.

This is not easy. It will feel like dying, which is exactly what Jesus says.

He invites His disciples to take up their cross and follow Him. Following Jesus is following Him into the death of our old life.

We will die to old habits, old traditions, and old beliefs. We will lose our old life. But in the process, we will gain a new way of living with Jesus Christ. When we lose our life for the cause of Christ, we gain a new life with Him (cf. Matt 16:24-27; Mark 8:34-38; Luke 9:23-26).

This discussion in Matthew 10:39 about finding a new life with Jesus has caused some to think that Jesus is referring to eternal life. But typically, when Jesus is referring to eternal life, He refers to it as such. When He is simply talking about life, He is referring to the temporal, physical life here on earth, as is the case here.

This world has a certain set of values and goals, but they always and only lead to death. So when we try to hold on to our life in this world, we lose it. However, when we give up the values and goals of life in this world, and instead adopt and accept the values and goals of Jesus, it is then that we discover how to properly live this life with God and with others.

So do you want to follow Jesus on the path of discipleship? It won’t be easy. It might even cause some of your family members to condemn and hate you. But the life you will gain as an active member of the family of God will make it all worth it.

Matthew 10:37-39 is not telling you how to receive eternal life, but is telling you what you can expect if you truly follow Jesus on the path of discipleship. Following Jesus can be quite costly, but it is more than worth the cost.

A chart showing the differences between believers and disciples

Eternal Life Discipleship
Free Gift Costly
Received through faith Received through commitment and obedience
Not by works By works
Instant justification Life-long sanctification
Jesus paid the price The Christian
pays the price
Believe in Jesus Follow Jesus
as Lord
Believe in Jesus Obey the commands
Cannot be earned Earns reward

Are you a believer AND a disciple?

So … have you believed in Jesus for eternal life? Good! Now listen for where Jesus wants to lead you…

Are you trying to follow Jesus, but you are not sure you have eternal life? That’s a good start … but let me be one of the first to invite you to believe in Jesus so that you can KNOW that you have eternal life, and so that you can better follow the leading of Jesus in your life.

Make sure you understand the differences between believing in Jesus for eternal life and following Jesus on the path of discipleship. They condition and results of both are completely different, but both are necessary to experience ALL that God wants for us in the life.

Once you understand the differences, however, many troubling texts in Scripture will make a whole lot more sense.

If you want to learn more about this topic, join my online discipleship group and take the Gospel Dictionary online course:

The Gospel DictionaryUnderstanding the Gospel requires us to properly understand the key words and terms of the Gospel. Take my course, "The Gospel Dictionary" to learn about the 52 key words of the Gospel, and hundreds of Bible passages that use these words.

This course costs $297, but when you join the Discipleship group, you can to take the entire course for free.

God is Redeeming God, Redeeming Scripture, Redeeming Theology, z Bible & Theology Topics: believe in Jesus, Discipleship, eternal life, gospel dictionary, make disciples, Matthew 10:37-39, One Verse Podcast

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What is the second death? (Revelation 21:8)

By Jeremy Myers
34 Comments

What is the second death? (Revelation 21:8)
http://media.blubrry.com/one_verse/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/498592344-redeeminggod-what-is-the-second-death-revelation-218.mp3
Note: Make sure you read all the way to the bottom to find out how to download a 2-hour audio teaching that is related to the topic of hell.

Revelation 21:8Revelation 20:6, 14 and Revelation 21:8 describe an event called “the second death.” It is contrasted with those who did not participate in “the first resurrection,” which is the resurrection of all believers at the return of Jesus Christ. Those who are not believers end up experiencing the second death.

So what is this second death?

To put the question another way, if Hebrews 9:27 says that it is destined for humans to die once, then how can John write in Revelation 20:6, 14 and Revelation 21:8 that there is a second death?

Here is what Revelation 20:6, 14 and Revelation 21:8 say about the second death:

Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power … Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. … But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

The “Second Death” is not Annihilation

Some argue that the second death is annihilationism … that is, a person who experiences the second death will no longer exist in eternity. They say that at the first death, people die physically, and then at the second death they die spiritually, which means that they cease to exist.

This view would be possible if “death” means “non-existent.” But it doesn’t. The word “dead” never means “non-existent” in Scripture. 

Instead, “death” means to be separated from the plan and purposes of God.

When something dies, it no longer functions the way God intended. This is true of physical bodies, sexual reproductive organs, interpersonal relationships, and faith.

So here in Revelation 20:6, 14 and Revelation 21:8, the person who experiences the second death will not be living out God’s plan and purposes for them in eternity.

The second death is simply being separated in eternity from what God originally wanted and planned for humanity.

God wanted humans to live in perfect harmony and unity with Himself, each other, and all creation. But when a person dies apart from Jesus Christ, they will experience eternity apart from Jesus Christ as well.

Then how is the Second Death related to the Lake of Fire?

While John describes this eternal existence apart from Jesus Christ as “the lake of fire,” this does not mean that the unregenerate are swimming around in a lake of fire and brimstone any more than anyone who lives in “Salt Lake” is actually swimming around in a large, salt-filled lake in Utah.

the second deathThe “Fiery Lake” might be the place that unregenerate people live for eternity, but this does not necessarily mean that they are suffering and burning for eternity within the lake. Furthermore, as I point out in my forthcoming book on hell, the term “Lake of Fire” referred to the body of water we now call the Dead Sea.

So to say that someone was going to be case into the Lake of Fire, or the Dead Sea, is a symbolic or metaphorical way of saying that such people will end up in a place devoid of life.

This is what John goes on to describe. In the afterlife, as part of the second death, people will be subject to the same “lusts of the flesh” that humans are subject to right now here on earth. Just like in this life, people who live in the second death will be cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters and liars.

So what is the Second Death?

The second death is not annihilation or eternal torment in flames of fire.

Instead, it is the continuation for eternity of what we experience in this life, but in an amplified way.

It consists of God allowing human beings to live life completely separated from Him. It is allowing them to live as slaves to hatred, violence, envy, immorality, deception, greed, lust and every evil thing.

As such, the second death is the opposite of eternal life. Eternal life is life lived as God always wanted, planned, and desired; eternal death (or the second death) is life lived in the complete opposite way, separated from everything that God intended for humanity.

It is existence in everlasting death. It is ongoing existence that is filled with all the problems and frustrations of this life, but without any end to them. The first death is a blessed escape from the frustrations of this life (which is why death is a blessing). But the second death has no end. It is an eternal existence without an end, while facing the frustrations of life lived without God.

second death in eternityJust as being “born again” does not mean to “start your life all over again,” but instead refers to the transformation of a person’s life so that they head in the direction God wanted, so also, to “die again” does not mean that a person dies a second time, but that a person’s life goes in a direction that is even further away from God wanted and desired.

The “second death” therefore, is not annihilation, or the death of the eternal soul. Instead, it is the act of being entrenched or solidified in the way of rebellion against God.

The second death is an irreversible step on a path that leads away from what God wanted and desired.

Did C. S. Lewis write about Hell?

C. S. Lewis’ theological fantasy book, The Great Divorce, depicts what this sort of everlasting death might look like. (He claims he was writing fiction … but was this really his view of hell and he was afraid of being called a heretic?)

The Great Divorce is a fascinating story of a man who gets on a bus in hell to take a trip to heaven. In the second chapter, Lewis describes what life is like for those who live in hell.

When people first arrive, Lewis writes that people find themselves in the center of a vast, sprawling town, which is very much like any town you mind find on earth, except that everything is free and nobody has any needs. So people move into any house they want, and start living in their new existence. But within a few days or weeks, they have a quarrel with one of their neighbors, and decide to move to a different street.

Lewis writes that this process continues forever, until some people get to the point where they live millions of miles away from anybody else.

In the everlasting second death, each person is allowed to be as selfish and mean as they want, and this causes them to eventually separate themselves from everyone else so that they finally live in complete isolation for all eternity, wrapped up in their own thoughts of everybody else’s faults and failures.

The Second Death is Everlasting Existence without God

In this life, there is an end to the choices we make. As we destroy our families, friendships, and health, we draw into ourselves and become more and more separated from others over time. Death stops this process of separation so that we can finally see ourselves and others as we really are, offer forgiveness and be forgiven, and begin to live in love and grace as God desires.

But in an eternal existence without God, where physical death is not an option, people will continue to separate themselves until eventually, they cut off all contact from everyone, and live solitary lives of self-centeredness and complete separation. For people who were created for community and relationships, this truly is a living hell. But it is a hell constructed by their own choices.

So just as eternal life is a life lived in eternity where we live life to its full potential, so eternal death, or the second death is a life lived in eternity where people achieve none of their potential. It is a life of everlasting death. Of no escape from the consequences of selfish human decisions.

Those who experience the eternal second death (living in the realm of death, but never dying) are living in a hell of their own making. Their eternal existence will be a life dominated by the sins mentioned in Revelation 21:8.

In eternity, where there is no death to deliver a person from the devastation they have brought into their lives, this ongoing death will simply continue forever and ever.

What are your thoughts about this concept? Do you agree? Disagree? Does it still sound like “hell” to you? Is it just and fair for God to let people live in eternity in such a way? Would annihilation be more loving? 


Do you want an MP3 teaching about the word "Fire" in Scripture?

After reading this blog post, I bet you have questions about passages in Scripture which refer to "everlasting fire" or the "Lake of Fire."

Download my 2-hour study on the word "Fire" by entering your email address below. I will also send you some emails with a special invitation to join my discipleship group.

The Gospel DictionaryUnderstanding the Gospel requires us to properly understand the key words and terms of the Gospel. Take my course, "The Gospel Dictionary" to learn about the 52 key words of the Gospel, and hundreds of Bible passages that use these words.

This course costs $297, but when you join the Discipleship group, you can to take the entire course for free.

God is Redeeming God, Redeeming Scripture, Redeeming Theology, z Bible & Theology Topics: annihilationism, CS Lewis, dead, death, hell, lake of fire, Revelation 20:14, Revelation 20:6, Revelation 21:8, second death

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