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Was Adam and Eve’s sin really about eating a piece of forbidden fruit?

By Jeremy Myers
25 Comments

Was Adam and Eve’s sin really about eating a piece of forbidden fruit?

Wesley RostollThis is a guest post from Wesley Rostoll. He lives in in South Africa with his wife and two kids.

Wesley left the institutional church about 5 years ago and has been exploring what some people call organic church ever since. He writes about what he has learned from the experience on his blog.

If you would like to write a Guest Post for the Till He Comes Blog, begin by reading the Guest Blogger Guidelines.

For most of my life I thought that the punishment that mankind and the rest of creation suffered for Adam and Eveโ€™s one act of disobedience in the garden seemed incredibly harsh. When compared to some of the things I had done in my life, it seems like I have done far worse and gotten away with it.

So when God said to Adam that if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that he would surely die I read it more as a threat than as a warning.

Wesley RostollThe truth is this wasn’t a case of a petty or offended deity overreacting.

Despite the fact that most of us grew up believing that God could not look upon sin (see my thoughts on that over here), it was not God who hid Himself from Adam but the other way around.

After the fall we see God seeking Adam and Eve out, clothing them when they realized that they were naked and putting them outside of the garden for their own protection (Genesis 3:22).

Nevertheless, we see a drastic change in man and in his relationship with God after Genesis 3. And here is the crux of why that piece of fruit om the Garden of Eden was such a big deal.

When Adam chose to eat that fruit from the forbidden tree, he was essentially choosing independence from God.

Man would now decide for himself what was good and evil.

God tried to warn Adam that going it alone would surely end badly for him and that it was a path that would lead to destruction. It was intended for mankind to draw life from God and bear his image and likeness but the fall changed that.

It is easy to overlook the tragedy of Genesis 5:3. Hidden away in a genealogy list, it tells us that when Adam had sons and daughters they were born into his image and likeness.

Fortunately for us though he loved us enough to send a new Adam, one not born of man but of the Spirit (Matthew 1:18). Hebrews 1:3 tells us that this man, Jesus, was the exact representation of God. Jesus himself said that if you had seen him you had seen the Father. The good news doesn’t stop there either; Paul said that he (Jesus) would be the first born among many and that we who found life in him would be conformed into his image (Romans 8:29), which ultimately restores us back to what was lost in the Garden.

I do not think that it was an accident that Jesus chose the words he did when he said that he is the way, the truth and the life (John 14:6).

Likewise I do not think that it was a coincidence when he used the illustration of himself as being the true vine (John 5:5) and that those who were in him would bear much fruit.

Today our choice is not so different from the one that Adam faced. We can choose life and we can find it in that vine or we can choose the broad way that leads to destruction.

God is z Bible & Theology Topics: Adam and Eve, Genesis 3, guest post

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Adolph Hitler on the Inspiration of Scripture

By Jeremy Myers
18 Comments

Adolph Hitler on the Inspiration of Scripture

No, Adolph Hitler never spoke about the inspiration of Scripture (that I know of).

But last week I posted two blog posts that got quite a bit of discussion, and I found the comments on these two posts quite … ironic.

They were these two posts:

  • The Hitler Billboard
  • Inspiration of Scripture and other writings

Here is what happened:

The Hitler Billboard Post

In the first post I criticized a church for putting up a billboard which quoted Hitler. I thought that a church had no business quoting Hitler, even if what Hitler said was true.

If you go read the comments, you see that the vast majority of the comments were in favor of quoting Hitler. Though these are not exact quotes of anybody, many people said things like “All truth is God’s truth” and “We should be able to recognize that other people may teach God’s truth, even if we don’t like what they stand for.”

all truth is gods truth

OK. I see the point. I also agree (for the most part).

But just as I would never quote Satan approvingly (even if it was a true statement), I don’t think churches should be quoting Hitler.

But whatever … people are free to disagree. (As many of them did.)

The very next day, however, I posted another post, and I was shocked at the response.

Inspiration and Other Religions

In this post, I argued that God has been whispering His truth to lots of people throughout time, not just to a select few Jews in a small corner of the world for a short period of time.

As such, I argued, it should not be surprising for us to find divine truth in the writings of other religions.

Judging by some of the comments I received, you would think I had just announced my conversion to atheism!

The Two Posts Compared…

But then it hit me …

Why is it okay to accept “truth” as “God’s truth” when it comes from Hitler, but it is heretical to accept “truth” as “God’s truth” when it comes from Buddhist Sutras, Hindu Vedas, or Native American legends?

If all truth is God’s truth (as people claimed on the Hitler post), then why are some so shocked when some of God’s truth is found in the writings of other religions?

I just don’t understand.

I suppose it was because I used the word “inspired” in the second post, though I tried to clarify that what I meant by “inspired” was “God whispering His truth to people.” That’s not deserving of being called a heretic, is it? All I am saying is that God has somehow taught truth to people who were not biblical authors. Heck, maybe that’s how Hitler learned the truth he stated about children, which was quoted in that billboard!

I wonder what would have happened if I had been able to find a quote from Hitler which said the same thing I said in the second post … people’s minds would have exploded!

Anyway, I thought it was strangely ironic that in one post I am condemned for one thing, and in the very next post, I am condemned for exactly the opposite (sometimes by the same people!).

“We played the flute for you, and you did not dance;
We sang a dirge, and you did not mourn” (Matthew 11:17)

God is z Bible & Theology Topics: Blogging, Discipleship, Hitler, inspiration, inspiration of Scripture, religions, scripture

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Jesus as the Hermeneutical Trump Card in Scripture

By Jeremy Myers
16 Comments

Jesus as the Hermeneutical Trump Card in Scripture

hermeneuticsWhen people seek to defend the idea that God is violent โ€œbecause the Bible says so,โ€ what they are really doing is allowing the violent portrayals of God in the Bible to override and trump the loving and merciful portrayals of God elsewhere in Scripture, even when both portrayals are talking about the same historical event.

Though both depictions of God are equally inspired, many biblical interpreters choose to let the violent depiction of God override and trump the loving depiction. In this way, it is not a matter of just believing the Bible; it is a matter of choosing which passages take precedence.

This practice is especially shocking when it comes to the revelation in Jesus Christ. Although Jesus is the ultimate revelation of Godโ€”the Word of God incarnateโ€”many Bible teachers and writers allow the violent portrayals of God in the Old Testament to override and trump the completely non-violent revelation of God in Jesus Christ.

When people want to defend a violent and vengeful God, they typically jump right over Jesus and go straight to Old Testament texts.

But isnโ€™t this backwards?

Jesus hermeneuticsIf a basic rule of hermeneutics is that the simpler and clearer texts should override the more difficult and troubling texts, and if Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God so that He can say โ€œif you have seen Me, you have seen the Father,โ€ why do we choose to let the more troubling, difficult, and violent texts override and trump the loving, merciful, and Christlike texts?

It is not a matter of one approach considering the whole counsel of God while the other approach neglects certain portions. No, both approaches consider the whole counsel of God. Itโ€™s a matter of choosing which parts of Scripture trump, interact with, and explain the other parts of Scripture.

As I continue to seek to understand the violent portrayals of God in the Old Testament, my approach has been to see Jesus Christ as the interpretive principle, the guiding ethic, the hermeneutical trump card of all of the Word of God.

Why?

Because Jesus is the Word of God.

No matter which text we consider, the basic questions are these: Does it look like Jesus? If not, how can we understand this text in light of Jesus? Or, how can we explain and apply this text in a way that looks more like Jesus? And ultimately, how can we apply this text so that it inspires us to love and live like Jesus?

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is z Bible & Theology Topics: Bible Study, hermeneutics, Theology of God, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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As Father Sees It

By Jeremy Myers
2 Comments

As Father Sees It

So true… so true. Happy Father’s Day!

Happy Father's Day

God is z Bible & Theology Topics: Discipleship, fathers day, humor, laugh

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Does Jesus talk about Hell more than Heaven?

By Jeremy Myers
133 Comments

Does Jesus talk about Hell more than Heaven?

burn in hellI sometimes hear pastors and teachers say that Jesus talked about hell more than heaven, and so we should do the same in our evangelism.

In other words, it is is often suggested that Jesus “scared” people into the kingdom. He threatened people with hell if they didn’t believe in Him, and so in our evangelism, we are perfectly justified in using threats of burning forever in hell and other similar scare tactics to get people into the Kingdom of God as well.

And it isn’t just the wacko fringe Christians who say this. I have heard it preached from the pulpits of some relatively “sane” evangelical churches. This sort of approach is also quite common in some of the leading evangelistic approaches of our day. People are trained to tell others that God is holy, righteous, and good, and since one sin is enough to condemn us to hell, God is justified in sending us there if we don’t believe in Jesus for eternal life.

And rather than shying away from hell, we are told to use it as a way to invite people into heaven. After all, we are told, Jesus preached about hell more than heaven, and so should we.

But is this true?

Is it true that Jesus talks about hell more than heaven?

In my book I am currently writing on the violence of God in the Bible, I will be including a full chapter on what the Bible says about hell, and the vast majority of that chapter will find its way here to this blog.

But by way of preview (and because the topic of this month’s synchroblog is hell), here are some of the main points I will be writing about in that chapter:

References to “fire” are usually not references to hell.

Jesus does speak about “fire” several times in the Gospels (e.g., Matt 3:10-12; 7:19; 13:40-50; John 15:6). But these references to fire are not references to a place of eternal torture for the unredeemed, but are simply symbols of temporal discipline and destruction that come upon some people as a result of straying from God’s instructions. Fire can even be for purification of believers (the Greek word for fire is pur) as seen in 1 Corinthians 3:15.

Sometimes Jesus refers to “hell fire” (e.g., Matt 5:22), but these are actually references to “Gehenna,” which I discuss in a later point.

The few references where fire may refer to the everlasting flames of hell are places like Matthew 25:41, and are used in reference to a place created for Satan and his angels. Do some humans end up there? It appears so, but again, this will not be for torture and torment. To explain why will have to wait for the book…

References to “the outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” are not references to hell.

There are several instances in Matthew where Jesus refers to “the outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt 8:12; 13:42-50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30). These terms are sometimes used in connection with fire and so most people think they also refer to hell.

But they don’t.

A careful contextual study of most of these texts reveal that the image of “outer darkness” is a symbol of exclusion from blessing and honor, and the image of “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is a vivid symbol of deep and profound regret. The events discussed in these places are typically events that will take place at the Judgment Seat of Christ (which is only for believers) and the Wedding Supper of the Lamb (which is also only for believers).

Again, I need full studies to show this, and these will have to wait for my book…

References to “hades” and “gehenna” are not references to hell.

There are numerous references in the Greek New Testament to hades and gehenna, and regrettably, most English translations translate these words as “hell.” But a place of eternal, conscious torment is what modern people think of when they think of hell, this is not what first century Jewish people would have thought of when they heard the words hades and gehenna.

Hades, of course, is the ancient Greek god of the underworld, the god of death. In biblical usage, it is often a Greek translation from the Hebrew sheol, which means “the pit” or “the grave.” Neither of these are references to hell, but simply refer to the hole in the earth in which dead people are laid (cf. Acts 2:27, 31; Rev 20:13).

There is, of course, the story about the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, which seems to equate hades with torturous flames in a pit of hell. But there are numerous problems with understanding this text as referring to what really happens to people after they die (for example, Lazarus is there with the rich man and they can communicate), and so it is dangerous to take this text to literally.

Fgehennainally, Gehenna refers to an actual place that existed outside the gates of Jerusalem. It was a little valley in which trash was thrown to be burned. This imagery must be understood wherever Jesus talks about “hell fire” and uses Gehenna (cf. Matt 5:22).

And do I need to say it? … Yes, I know a fuller explanation is wanted on all these terms and texts, but it will have to wait for the book…

When all of this is considered, we see that Jesus didn’t talk about hell more than heaven. He rarely mentions hell at all. As such, I think there is absolutely no place for threatening people with hell if they don’t believe in Jesus for eternal life. Yes, we can warn people (as Jesus did) about the disastrous temporal consequences of their sin, but threatening people with eternal torment in flames is neither Christlike nor theologically correct.

To say that Jesus warned people of hell and so should we is just plain wrong.

Jesus Really Didn’t Talk about Heaven that Much Either

Having said all this, Jesus really didn’t talk that much about heaven either.

Just as we don’t really want to scare people into believing Jesus, we shouldn’t try to bribe them either. While Jesus talks about heaven more than hell, neither have a big emphasis in His teaching.

Instead, Jesus frequently talks about everlasting life, and life in the kingdom of God. Eternal life, of course, begins the moment we believe in Jesus for it, but the longer we live in Him, the great the experience of eternal life gets.

And the Kingdom of God (or the Kingdom of Heaven) is not a synonym for heaven, but simply refers to the rule and reign of God in our lives.

If you want to evangelize, and you want follow the way of Jesus and the apostles, you don’t need to threaten or bribe. Simply lay out the grand vision of what life is like when we live it God’s way. Life under the rule and reign of God is a life of joy, freedom, contentment, fulfillment, and satisfaction. It is a life of laughter and delight. It is a life free from bondage and slavery and addiction. It is life as it was truly meant to be lived.

This is the life Jesus lived, and this is the life Jesus invited people into. If we want to evangelize others like Jesus, we don’t need to threaten them with hell or bribe them with heaven, but can simply invite them into a way of life is that is better than anything else the world has to offer.


This post is part of the May Synchroblog on the topic of hell. Below is a list of the other bloggers who participated this month. Go read what they have to say on the topic of hell.

  • Wesley Rostoll โ€“ย Hell, thoughts on annihilationism
  • K. W. Leslie โ€“ย Dark Christians
  • Angie Benjamin โ€“ย Hell Is For Real
  • Paul Meier โ€“ย Hell Is For Real โ€“ Iโ€™ve Been There and Came Back
  • Glenn Hager โ€“ย Abusing Hell
  • The Virtual Abbess โ€“ย What The Hell?
  • Kimbery Klein โ€“ย Hell, if I know.
  • Michael Donahoeย –ย Hell Yesโ€ฆor No?
  • Liz Dyer โ€“ย Hell? No!
  • Margaret Boelman –ย Hell No I Wonโ€™t Go
  • Loveday Anyim โ€“ย Why the hell do you believe in hell?
  • Linda –ย The Y In The Road
  • Edwin Aldrich โ€“ย What the Hell do we really know.
  • Mallory Pickering โ€“ย The Time I Blogged About Hell
  • Elaine โ€“ย What The Hell?

God is z Bible & Theology Topics: Bible Study, evangelism, fire, gehenna, hades, heaven, hell, sheol, synchroblog, Theology of the End Times

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