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Hey Blog Readers… I LOVE YOU!

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blog readersI want to say several things in this post. Here they are in summary:

  • I am giving up on the violence of God project
  • I am going to finish the violence of God project
  • Why? Because I love you all!

So let me explain each point in more detail.

I am Giving up on the Violence of God Project

I’ve been working for several years on this project of trying to understand the violence of God in the Old Testament, especially in light of the self-sacrificial, enemy-loving example of Jesus Christ. 

I have come to several realizations about this project: 

  1. Even if my proposal is true, it makes no real difference because it is too difficult to explain. My theory doesn’t pass the “10-Year old” test. Even if I am right, I have no business writing about it yet because I would not be able to explain my idea to a 10-year old. Until I can, I should not proceed. (Note that this 10-year old test is my own personal conviction, and is not something that all writers need to abide by.)
  2. I have trouble seeing how my view is different than the view of those who think the Bible is just plain wrong. If I have trouble seeing any real difference between my view and those who think the Bible is in error, then why am I trying so hard to argue that my view is different? Maybe my view isn’t different, and I simply need to own up to the fact that the Old Testament is wrong. But so far, I cannot own up to this idea, which means I must give up on my project until I can either (1) explain my view better, or (2) accept the idea that the Bible is somehow wrong. 
  3. I find myself not believing myself. This is the main problem. A person should be convinced of the truth of what they write, but I sometimes feel like I am trying to write to convince and persuade myself of something I don’t believe. That’s bad. 
  4. My proposal creates more problems than it solves. One test of any theological proposal is that it must have less problems than the problem it was trying to solve. I do not think that this happened with my proposal. The longer I argue it, the more problems I see. A superior theological theory should solve problems of the previous theories while creating no further problems of its own (or at least, lesser problems). Sure, my theory may have solved the one of the greatest problems in theology (at least for me), the problem about how God can appear violent in the Old Testament when Jesus in the Gospels is non-violent, but in the process of trying to explain this, I created a vast number of other problems. I do not think trading one giant problem for hundreds of smaller problems is a good trade. 
  5. I don’t think I am a theologian… For some dumb reason, I have always wanted to be a theologian, but have always been lousy at theology. It is much easier for me to study, explain, and teach specific biblical texts and passages than to synthesize and systematize broad truths found in Scripture. Maybe I should stop trying to be what I am not, and simply start playing to my strengths…
  6. I hear Greg Boyd is writing something along these lines… and he truly is a world class theologian, so I will let him do the heavy work on this subject… Ha!

I am Going to Finish the Violence of God Project

Despite everything I just wrote, I am going to press on and finish the project anyway.

I know, I know. If I am giving up on it, why finish it? Again, for several reasons: 

  1. Because I have gone too far to stop now. It feels like I am in the middle of a marathon through a desert and I desperately need a drink of water, but the only water around is at the end of the marathon, so I have no choice but to finish. Also, the bones of dozens of unfinished projects lie in my past, and I don’t want this to be another one.But so that I can be true to myself and the biblical text, I think what I am going to do going forward is to stop attempting to defend my proposal (that God accepts blame for the violence of the world), and show instead how these passages point to and are fulfilled by Jesus Christ. It’s a small difference, but I think it will be much easier to do from the Old Testament texts than what I was trying to argue. If you want to know what I mean, see the post from Tuesday about seeing Jesus in Sodom. That is what I will be trying to do going forward.But note that this is not simply some foolish desire to stubbornly finish an ill-conceived project. I may have spent hundreds (thousands?) of hours reading, researching, and writing the 155,000 words of this project (so far), but all is not lost. It was not a complete waste of time. To quote Edison, “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” (Another quote of Edison, interestingly enough, is this: “Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.”) 
  2. Most of what I wrote I agree with. Do not think I am jettisoning the entire project. While what I have written so far will probably not ever make it into a book, most of what I have written might find itself into various other books in the future. I agree with over 90% of what I have written. The main thing I cannot really argue any longer is the main idea of the book, that when God saw the evil which His people were going to commit, He inspired them to write about it in a way that made Him appear to be the one who commanded it. I just can’t accept this any longer. It might sound somewhat decent in theory, but when I look at the text of Scripture, I cannot get the theory to fit the text in a way that makes sense. But other than that, MOST everything else in the book I still agree with. 
  3. Beyond just finding another way that doesn’t really work, I think I may have found a new idea I want to tackle instead… (that’s how investigation works, right?) … and thankfully, continuing with this current project will allow me to transition nicely into this new idea later on down the road (if I want to). 

So… if you think I am wrong in the approach to Scripture I have been arguing so far, your concerns may have been justified… I am throwing in the towel.

Of course, if you are enjoying this current project and like where it is going, have no fear… even though I am quitting, I am not quitting. I am going to push on, with only a few minor adjustments going forward. 

And this then leads me to the final thing I want say in this post: 

I Love you All!

There are two main reasons I blog. The first is because I write to keep myself sane by thinking through writing. I have a brain that requires me to write things out in order to think them through. If I did not write, the ideas and questions would bounce around my head and muddle my brain, and I would quickly go insane. I am not exaggerating. Ask my wife. She knows when I haven’t been writing, because I start acting strangely… 

I used to just do this on my own, with college-ruled spiral-bound notebooks. I have stacks of these notebooks sitting around my office from when I used to do this in my early teenage and college years. When I started this website/blog about 13 years ago, I transitioned from writing in notebooks to writing online. This wasn’t necessarily because I wanted others to read what I wrote, but because I could type faster than I could write, and because I thought the internet was a safer place to store my “thoughts” than on paper in my office or even in files on my computer. 

till he comes forumThis leads to the second reason I write: You. Much to my surprise, as I write, I find that there are others around the world who have similar questions and ideas as the ones I am having. As you have interacted with me on these posts and with this idea, I have learned from  you, been taught and instructed by you, and have met many “kindred spirits” along the way. I consider many of  you my “online friends.” 

Just in the last week or so, several of you have left comments on some of the posts that made me see things in a whole new light and have come to a realization about some things that I have never seen before. Though I run the risk of leaving someone out, I found some of the comments and insights from Cathy and Lisa to be particularly helpful. Thank you, ladies! 

I also had some conversations about this topic with my friends Chuck McKnight and Ed Underwood. Thanks, guys! (And if you like my blog, you should go read theirs!) 

But it’s not just these people I mentioned. I love this community. I love you all! I wish we could all hang out in person some time! 

This might also be a good time to say that I am opening up a forum here on the blog to help develop this online community. It’s a bit of an experiment, and I am a bit nervous about it being taken over by religious nuts, but we’ll see what happens… 

If you want to start posting on the forum, read the forum rules here, and then register here. See you there!

The Path to Freedom by Brandon Chase

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I recently had the opportunity to read a pre-release copy of The Path to Freedom by Brandon Chase, and wanted to invite the readers of my blog to get a free copy of this eBook when it comes out. To encourage you to do so, I am posting this interview of Brandon and his new book.

Path to Freedom

Why did you decide to write The Path to Freedom?

The Path of Freedom was really a private wrestling I had with the Lord long before it was ever an eBook.

I had observed something that “bothered” me – in my own testimony, and in years of ministry with and to Christians – that is: the lack of real understanding of and Living in the Freedom we are supposed to have in Jesus.

I was a “Christian” half of my life – and had no concept of what being Free was. I have witnessed countless Brothers and Sisters taste this Freedom in some area of their life – only to seemingly fall out of it, return to old sin patterns, wrong belief, or other bondage.

The fruit of Freedom is too often not there, or fleeting.

This eBook is the culmination of my wrestling with the Lord in asking the question, “Why?” and my understanding of what He showed me about Freedom – what it is, how It is entered in to, how It is remained in, how it is grown in, how it is Lived from – and why it matters.

You are not getting another “how to” book here. Rather, this is an unveiling of “what already is,” and what it means to “see” that reality, and live from it.

How has this process changed you?

As you probably can relate, writing is a wonderful Fellowship with the Lord – I hear from Him and learn from Him in the “classroom” of the keyboard.

But before I ever get to the point of actually writing, for me, the process of writing about the things of God begin in the abiding in Him and seeking His things. When I did this for the specific purpose of understanding Freedom, He was faithful to show and tell.

This process has changed me eternally in that I now “get” Freedom. Please don’t hear me to say I am an expert, or have fully reached the bottom of understanding. That would be like reaching the end of the Lord Himself – and He is unsearchable in His riches! But I grasp what it means to realize His Freedom, and more importantly, what Living from that Freedom looks like, far better now than before this process started.

Those who take this journey with me will too.

Who should read The Path of Freedom?

Truthfully, any sincere and seeking follower of Jesus who desires the fullness of relationship, intimacy, life and freedom in Him will benefit from The Path to Freedom.

Specifically though, you will be blessed by reading this if:

  • You wonder: what your purpose is? what the point of being a Christian is? what God “expects” of you?
  • Life is getting the best of you, and you are at the end of your rope.
  • You’ve been a “Christian” for a while, but the passion for the Lord is lacking – you feel like you are going through the motions.
  • You continue to struggle with habitual sins. You are depressed. You are fearful. You are doubtful.
  • Church and the Christian life feels empty and dead to you, and you wonder “There has to be more than this.”
  • You’ve ever questioned why so many “Christians” seem apathetic, or so easily fall back into a way of life that lacks Freedom, even after having experienced Christ on a “mountaintop.”
  • You struggle with faith or belief in God, and wonder, “What is faith?”
  • You need a fresh wind of revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

How will the Till He Comes audience benefit from reading The Path to Freedom?

You have a gift, Jeremy, of challenging paradigms and ways of thinking about God, Jesus and the Church. In this process, I learned just how much wrong paradigms of belief and thinking contribute to a lack of realized Freedom. The Path of Freedom addresses many of these including:

  • God’s Goodness
  • “Fighting” for God (which fits in nicely with your recent study on non-violence)
  • “Church”
  • Prayer, Bible reading, Fellowship and community
  • And more…

I was challenged, and am in turn challenging sincere lovers of Jesus to see afresh their relationship with Him, and practice of following Him – to see old chains of bad paradigms broken.

Somewhat like you, I want readers to think deeper than the surface-level of the things of God, that so many of us have taken for granted and settled for, and be the few who walk deeper in the Life Jesus came to bring us.

How can readers who are interested get your eBook?

Brandon ChaseI plan to release the eBook for FREE to subscribers of my blog newsletter near the end of this month. You can get a FREE copy of The Path of Freedom when it is released by joining my newsletter list.

This will automatically subscribe you to free updates to my blog, Zōē Perissos, as well as any other future eBooks. I will always respect your privacy, and you can opt out at any time. Once you confirm your email address, you’ll receive a private link to the PDF that you can download.

Any closing thoughts?

I’m praying that The Path to Freedom opens eyes to more – More Freedom, More Life, More Jesus – and inspires us to live, really live free.

The world and the Church are hungry, starving, for the people of God to realize their freedom – and to live it.

Be one of the few.

Thank you, Jeremy for this opportunity to share. Blessings!

Seeing Jesus in Sodom

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Yesterday, we briefly looked at an alternative way of reading the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19 which showed that God did not destroy these cities, but worked to rescue and redeem people from the destruction that these cities had brought upon themselves.

I concluded that post by saying that there were various texts in Scripture which supported this perspective so that the God revealed in Jesus Christ is also the God revealed in the events surrounding the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

In this post we look at some of these other texts, and in so doing, can hopefully see Jesus in Genesis 19.

Sodom and Gomorrah

God’s Compassion for Sodom and Gomorrah

It is first important to notice that Sodom and Gomorrah were not the only cities which were destroyed. Genesis 14:2, 8 lists the names of five cities of the plain. The five cities are Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboiim, and Zoar. Genesis 19:25 indicates that the entire plain was to be destroyed, and everything that lived upon it, including plants. This would have meant that all five cities were to be destroyed; not just Sodom and Gomorrah.

Yet when Lot begs leave to flee to Zoar instead of to the mountains, he is given permission and is told that Zoar will not be destroyed (Genesis 19:19-21). So already we see that because God knew of Abraham’s love for Lot, God had decided to rescue Lot from Sodom, and when Lot fled to Zoar, the people of Zoar were spared as well. So when Moses records the cities that were destroyed by fire and brimstone in Deuteronomy 29:23, only the four cities of the plain are mentioned: Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim.

This is important because the destruction of Admah and Zeboiim are mentioned elsewhere in Scripture. In Hosea 11:8, God says this:

How can I give you up Ephraim?
How can I hand you over, Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I set you like Zeboiim?
My heart churns within Me.
My sympathy is stirred.

Surprisingly, the one emotional trait which seems to be present in Hosea 11:8 is compassion. God does not want Ephraim and Israel to become like Admah and Zeboiim. It seems obvious from this text that God does not desire the destruction of the wicked, and He takes no delight in their destruction.

Due to the parallelism in Hosea 11:8, it seems that God is saying this is how He felt about Admah and Zeboiim as well. He did not seek or desire their destruction, but destruction came upon them nonetheless. If God had sympathy for the people of Admah and Zeboiim the way He had sympathy for the people of Ephraim and Israel, then God is starting to look a little bit more like Jesus, for a sympathetic God does not destroy people with fire and brimstone, but seeks to rescue them instead. But the people of the plain would not be rescued, and destruction fell upon them.

Sodom and Gomorrah were Handed Over to Destruction

Sodom and GomorrahBut even more importantly, we must take note of the verbs God uses in Hosea 11:8 to describe what might happen to Ephraim and Israel if they do not turn from their ways. God says that they would be given up and handed over, just like Admah and Zeboiim. God says, “How can I give you up? … How can I hand you over?” It seems that according to Hosea 11:8, the destruction that came upon the four cities in the plain was not directly by the hand of God, but was because the people departed from the protective hand of God, and brought their destruction upon themselves.

They had been given up and handed over to destruction, but despite what Genesis 19 indicates, Hosea 11 implies that the destruction on these cities did not come from the hand of God, but came from their departure from His hand.

No writer could more poignantly portray God’s distress at the thought of “handing over” or “giving up” the nation to destruction, as He would one day deliver up the Sin-bearer to redeem a lost race. He compares such a prospect to the time He gave up and handed over Admah and Zeboiim (Marilyn Madison Campbell, Light through the Darkness: A Vindication of God, 79).

This way of thinking about the destruction of the cities on the plain is seen elsewhere as well. Isaiah 3:8-9 says this:

For Jerusalem stumbled, and Judah is fallen …
They declare their sin as Sodom; they do not hide it.
Woe to their soul!
For they have brought evil upon themselves.

Once again, the impending judgment upon Judah is compared to what happened with Sodom. Through the pen of Isaiah, God does not say that He will destroy Judah as He destroyed Sodom, but rather that they will have brought this evil upon themselves. And this is exactly what happened, for Isaiah later says that God “removed the protection from Judah” (Isaiah 22:8). God did not bring the destruction upon Judah, but removed the protection from Judah when they departed from His protective hand.

Sodom in Romans 1

The perspective presented in Hosea and Isaiah is echoed by Paul in Romans 1. When Paul writes about the wrath of God that came upon people in the past who committed sins similar to those of Sodom, Paul says that God “gave them up” and “gave them over” to their sin (Romans 1:24, 26, 28).

This sort of terminology is how Paul defines the wrath of God and His divine judgment. God’s wrath is not His active punishment of sin, but rather, Him passively allowing rebellious people to follow where their sin leads and face the consequences of distancing themselves from Him.

Sodom in Jude 7

Finally, there is the reference in Jude 7 where we are told that Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surround cities suffered eternal fire because they had “given themselves over” to sin. It seems even that Jude, the half-brother of Jesus, wanted to clarify about the nature and source of the fiery and eternal destruction that fell upon Sodom and Gomorrah. Why did the fire fall? Because the people had given themselves over to sin.

Here is not even that God had given them over, but that the people had given themselves over. This is a classic example of a verse which shows that sin cannibalizes itself. When we persist in willful and rebellious straying from God and His ways, we invite the consequences of our sin down upon our own heads, so that eventually, the sin we consistently live within eventually falls upon our heads and consumes us. This is what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah according to Jude.

Sodom, Gomorrah, and Jesus

So what can we say about Sodom and Gomorrah, and especially the way the text reads in Genesis 19? It seems that when the whole counsel of Scripture is considered, God’s activity in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah amounted to simply allowing them to suffer the consequences of their own sinful rebellion, while taking what steps He could to warn, rescue, and deliver as many people as possible from the fire and brimstone.

Though Genesis 19 indicates that God sent the fire and brimstone, later revelation reveals that God gave the cities up to destruction, and handed them over to the consequences of their ways. So in this way, Genesis 19 reveals God once again taking the blame for that which He does not prevent (Marilyn Madison Campbell, Light through the Darkness: A Vindication of God, 82).

Though their sin was not His fault, and though the destruction that came upon the cities was the natural consequence for their rebellion, when God handed them over to destruction, He inspired to the biblical author to state that He Himself was sending the destruction. God takes the blame and bears the guilt for a terrible event in human history which was carried out “on His watch.”

The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah

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The events surrounding the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah are well known.

The Plan to Destroy Sodom and Gomorrah

In Genesis 18:16-21, God informs Abraham that a great outcry against the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah had come up before Him, and so He was going to destroy the cities if they were as wicked as He had heard. 

Abraham, knowing that Lot and his family lived in Sodom, pled with God to not destroy the cities if righteous people could be found within. In one of the most amazing and challenging passages about intercessionary prayer in the Bible, Abraham goes from persuading God to spare the cities if fifty righteous people are found within them, all the way down to only ten righteous people (Genesis 18:23-33).

The Depravity of Sodom and Gomorrah

Genesis 19 shows some of the depths of depravity to which Sodom had sunk.

When the messengers visit Sodom, Lot invites them to stay in his house. Such hospitality was expected at that time. That night, the men of Sodom gather at Lot’s house, demanding that he send the visitors out so they can rape them.

Lot, showing that he himself is not so righteous, offers the mob his two daughters instead, but the crowd will not be dissuaded, and demand that he hand over the two visitors or they will do worse to him (Genesis 19:9).

sodom and gomorrahThe visitors strike the crowd with blindness, and tell Lot to flee the city with his family because “the Lord has sent us to destroy it” (Genesis 19:13). Lot pled with his two sons-in-law, but they would not flee, and ultimately, Lot was forced to flee the city with only his wife and two daughters.

Behind the Scenes in the Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah

The entire account pretty clearly seems to lay the direct action of the destruction of the cities in the hands of God. Aside from the statement from the messengers that God had sent them to destroy the cities (Genesis 19:13), the text says multiple times that the Lord sent the destruction, rained down the fire and brimstone, and overthrew the cities in the plain (Genesis 19:14, 17, 21, 24, 25, 29). In light of all this, the case seems pretty cut and dry: God saw the evil; God destroyed the cities.

And yet, just as with Genesis 6–8, there are multiple hints within the text itself and in numerous related passages in the Bible that something else was going on behind the scenes.

The first hint is in the intercessionary prayer of Abraham to spare the city if righteous people lived within it. Though Abraham stopped at ten, one wonder how low God would have gone. Would God have gone to five? To one? What if Abraham had simply said, “My nephew, Lot, lives there. I doubt that even he is righteous, but I love him. Would you spare the city just for him?” Regardless, these are questions with no answers, for they were questions that were not asked.

However, the deeper question from this intercession of Abraham relates to how God would have spared the city if He had found ten righteous people dwelling within. 

If, as has been suggested by the Chaos Theory, God cannot always stop destruction when it comes, how is it that God could have stopped this destruction if He had found ten righteous people in the city? 

If God has a policy of non-intervention, if nature is out of control, if the destroyer destroys, and if sin cannibalizes itself, how could God have stepped in and stopped all this if He had found ten righteous people in the city? 

What seems most likely is that, much like the flood and due to the various elements of the Chaos Theory, God was unable to stop the destruction of Sodom, but would do everything He could to rescue and deliver people from the impending destruction.

sodom and gomorrah

Genesis 19 seems to indicate that God knew that there were not ten righteous people in the city. 

In fact, as it turned out, there was probably not even one. Neither Lot’s family nor Lot himself turned out to be righteous. 

The destruction that was coming upon Sodom and Gomorrah had been coming for a very long time, and God had been holding back this destruction, but the situation has grown so bad that the people had departed from God’s protective hand. Yet God was faithful, loving, and merciful, and did what He could to rescue as many people as possible from the fire and brimstone. When it appeared that not even Lot was going to leave the city, God almost forcibly removed Lot, his wife, and his daughters from the city as an act of pure mercy toward him (Genesis 19:16, 19). 

Though Lot and his family probably deserved to be destroyed along with everybody else, God rescued Lot and his daughters through an act of pure mercy toward Lot, and in response to the intercession of Abraham. But note that even though God tried to rescue Lot’s wife, and Lot’s two sons-in-law, they were unwilling to be rescued, and there was nothing God could do to prevent their destruction.

Even Lot himself did not want to obey the commands of God. When instructed to flee to the mountains, Lot argued, and begged instead to be allowed to flee to Zoar (Genesis 19:20). Since this was a city that would not be destroyed, God allowed Lot to go there instead (Genesis 19:21). Once again, we see God’s mercy at work in the midst of widespread destruction.

Yet where in this text do we see Jesus? 

If Genesis 19 is to be read in light of Jesus Christ on the cross, we need more evidence that God was taking the blame for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah rather than actively sending it. 

This is especially true in light of Genesis 19:24-25, 29 which specifically state that the fire and brimstone came from God, and that He “overthrew” and “destroyed” those cities, along with all the inhabitants of the plain. This is a perfect example of what we have been arguing in this book, that God takes the blame for that which He did not prevent, that God bears responsibility for evil things that occur on His watch. Rather than destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, God did what He could to rescue and deliver people from the destruction which they had brought upon themselves. 

While this way of reading the text is not blatantly obvious in Genesis 19 itself, several other texts in Scripture provide further evidence that this is the best way of understanding God’s involvement in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

We will look at these texts tomorrow.

Until then, what are your thoughts so far on this take of Sodom and Gomorrah? Does it seem too much of a stretch? Does it make sense? What objections or additional insights do you have?

The Bloody Bible

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bloody bibleThe Bible is full of bloody and gruesome portrayals, many of which are carried out at what appears to be the direct command of God. 

One atheistic author has written an entire book about these many thousands of passages in the Bible in which God blesses, causes, commands, or sanctions violence against human beings (Steve Wells, Drunk with Blood: God’s Killings in the Bible). 

But it is not just atheists who notice and are troubled by such violent texts. 

Many Christians consider the violent portions of Scripture to be the most troubling texts in all the Bible. In fact, I talked with one woman just this past week who has abandoned Christianity, largely because of the violent portrayals of God in the Bible. She said, “If there is a God, he is either is monstrous to cause such things, is impotent because he cannot stop them, or is absent and he does not care. Whichever way you go, such a god is not worthy of worship. ” 

I couldn’t agree more. 

I, too, could not worship a god like that. 

Thankfully, I don’t think those are the only three options when trying to understand the violent portrayals of God in the Bible. I have tried to present my view in previous posts. 

Yet although there are other options, this doesn’t mean it is easy to understand what is going on behind these bloody events in the Bible. 

Most difficult to assess are passages portraying God as a bloodthirsty warrior—“I will make my arrows drunk with blood, while my sword devours flesh” (Deut 32:42)—or as burning with anger so ruthless it consumes the enemy “like stubble” (Exod 15:7). Also troubling are passages ordering the Israelites to “carry out the Lord’s vengeance” (Num 31:3); to “kill all the boys” and “kill every woman who has slept with a man” (Num 31:17); to “make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy” (Deut 7:2); to “not leave alive anything that breathes” (Deut 20:16); so that the Israelites “left no survivors” (Deut 2:34; Josh 10:39) (See Heath Thomas, Jeremy Evans, and Paul Copan, eds., Holy War in the Bible: Christian Morality and the Old Testament Problem, 189).

Over the course of the next several months, we are going to take a brief look at several of the violent and bloody portrayals of God in the Old Testament. 

The analysis of these texts will be much shorter than the analysis of the flood in Genesis 6–8 because explaining all the texts in detail would simply mean that many of the same arguments and ideas presented as an explanation for one text would simply be repeated in an explanation for a different text. (See Paul Copan, Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God). 

Each text will be introduced in turn with a brief explanation of how God is portrayed in the passage, and this will be followed with a brief explanation of how to understand God’s actions in light of the Chaos Theory and in light of God taking on the sin of the whole world, just as Jesus did on the cross.

It must be reiterated, however, that not all the passages allow for a clear glimpse behind the curtain. While many of the violent and troubling depictions of God are explained in later texts of the Bible in a way which shows that God did not actually command or perform the evil that is ascribed to His name, many of the passages have no such explanation later in Scripture. So for those texts, we must simply rely on what we know about God through the revelation of Jesus, and also what we know about the six points of the Chaos Theory and how God has ordered the universe.

To prepare yourself for this series of posts, I strongly suggest you go read the previous posts I have written on this topic related to the Chaos Theory and the Proposal I am attempting to defend. 

What are your thoughts on the violent portrayals of God in the Bible? Have you struggled with any of the bloody events in Scripture? Which ones? 

Hellish Evangelism

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hellish evangelism
Click this image to see more God memes like this one.

This is a little follow up post from yesterday where I said that Jesus did not in fact speak of hell more than heaven. Note that if what I proposed is true, then most of the passages in the Gospels that people think refer to hell, do not actually refer to hell.

If that is true, then there are very few passages in Scripture which do teach about hell! In fact, there may be only two or three.

And these rare passages use highly symbolic terminology which tells us that we basically know nothing about hell.

One Bible teacher whom I used to listen to a lot, believes that hell is in the center of the earth. His argument is that when the Bible talks about the grave, it uses terminology about people going down into the earth, and therefore, hell must be in the earth. I find this almost laughable, for it shows a complete disregard for biblical imagery and symbolic terminology. “Going down into the earth” refers to getting buried and returning to dust, not going to hell.

Anyway, the few passages which do in fact refer to a place of punishment speak of flames and a Lake of Fire. Does this mean that hell will actually be a place that is burning? I could be wrong, but I really doubt it.

Fire in Scripture, when used symbolically, always refers to judgment. Hell is simply going to be a place of judgment, and it is usually temporal in nature.

Hell will not be a place of torture or torment as depicted in the 1997 Science Fiction movie Event Horizon  (If you haven’t seen that movie, I don’t recommend it. It’s about a group of space travelers that travel to hell. And hell is very graphically depicted in the movie.)

Jonathan EdwardsSo since hell is not a place where God tortures people for eternity, I almost literally shake with anger when I read these words that Jonathan Edwards preached:

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment.

Aside from his abhorrent view of hell, Edwards reveals a monstrous view of God and a despicable view of men. Forgive me for saying it, but this kind of evangelism can go to hell.

What is hell going to be like? Scripture doesn’t give us much indication.

Personally, I see a lot biblical and theological merit to the way C. S. Lewis portrayed it in his book The Great Divorce. He claimed he was not writing a theology of hell in this book, but I suspect he said that just to keep people from calling him a heretic. He pictures hell as a place where people live and exist because they want to, and where everybody gets exactly what they want. It is not torture. In that book, he wrote this:

There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.

Lewis wrote elsewhere that the doors of hell are locked from the inside.

If you think about what life would be like if everybody got exactly what they wanted, it would be hell. Eventually, people couldn’t stand to be around each other. The longer they are there, the most disconnected they would become. In this sense, hell, ultimately, is eternal loneliness. It is eternal separation from God and others.

That, of course, is pretty hellish, but it is not the same as God torturing us for all eternity. Instead, it is God granting our desire to live apart from Him and live our lives exactly as we please.

Anyway, I will write a lot more about this when I get to the subject of hell in the current book I am writing on the violence of God, but I wanted to just give a short preview of my views on hell, and provide a follow-up from the post yesterday about whether Jesus spoke of hell more than heaven.

Does Jesus talk about Hell more than Heaven?

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burn in hellI sometimes hear pastors and teachers say that Jesus talked about hell more than heaven, and so we should do the same in our evangelism.

In other words, it is is often suggested that Jesus “scared” people into the kingdom. He threatened people with hell if they didn’t believe in Him, and so in our evangelism, we are perfectly justified in using threats of burning forever in hell and other similar scare tactics to get people into the Kingdom of God as well.

And it isn’t just the wacko fringe Christians who say this. I have heard it preached from the pulpits of some relatively “sane” evangelical churches. This sort of approach is also quite common in some of the leading evangelistic approaches of our day. People are trained to tell others that God is holy, righteous, and good, and since one sin is enough to condemn us to hell, God is justified in sending us there if we don’t believe in Jesus for eternal life.

And rather than shying away from hell, we are told to use it as a way to invite people into heaven. After all, we are told, Jesus preached about hell more than heaven, and so should we.

But is this true?

Is it true that Jesus talks about hell more than heaven?

In my book I am currently writing on the violence of God in the Bible, I will be including a full chapter on what the Bible says about hell, and the vast majority of that chapter will find its way here to this blog.

But by way of preview (and because the topic of this month’s synchroblog is hell), here are some of the main points I will be writing about in that chapter:

References to “fire” are usually not references to hell.

Jesus does speak about “fire” several times in the Gospels (e.g., Matt 3:10-12; 7:19; 13:40-50; John 15:6). But these references to fire are not references to a place of eternal torture for the unredeemed, but are simply symbols of temporal discipline and destruction that come upon some people as a result of straying from God’s instructions. Fire can even be for purification of believers (the Greek word for fire is pur) as seen in 1 Corinthians 3:15.

Sometimes Jesus refers to “hell fire” (e.g., Matt 5:22), but these are actually references to “Gehenna,” which I discuss in a later point.

The few references where fire may refer to the everlasting flames of hell are places like Matthew 25:41, and are used in reference to a place created for Satan and his angels. Do some humans end up there? It appears so, but again, this will not be for torture and torment. To explain why will have to wait for the book…

References to “the outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” are not references to hell.

There are several instances in Matthew where Jesus refers to “the outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt 8:12; 13:42-50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30). These terms are sometimes used in connection with fire and so most people think they also refer to hell.

But they don’t.

A careful contextual study of most of these texts reveal that the image of “outer darkness” is a symbol of exclusion from blessing and honor, and the image of “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is a vivid symbol of deep and profound regret. The events discussed in these places are typically events that will take place at the Judgment Seat of Christ (which is only for believers) and the Wedding Supper of the Lamb (which is also only for believers).

Again, I need full studies to show this, and these will have to wait for my book…

References to “hades” and “gehenna” are not references to hell.

There are numerous references in the Greek New Testament to hades and gehenna, and regrettably, most English translations translate these words as “hell.” But a place of eternal, conscious torment is what modern people think of when they think of hell, this is not what first century Jewish people would have thought of when they heard the words hades and gehenna.

Hades, of course, is the ancient Greek god of the underworld, the god of death. In biblical usage, it is often a Greek translation from the Hebrew sheol, which means “the pit” or “the grave.” Neither of these are references to hell, but simply refer to the hole in the earth in which dead people are laid (cf. Acts 2:27, 31; Rev 20:13).

There is, of course, the story about the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, which seems to equate hades with torturous flames in a pit of hell. But there are numerous problems with understanding this text as referring to what really happens to people after they die (for example, Lazarus is there with the rich man and they can communicate), and so it is dangerous to take this text to literally.

Fgehennainally, Gehenna refers to an actual place that existed outside the gates of Jerusalem. It was a little valley in which trash was thrown to be burned. This imagery must be understood wherever Jesus talks about “hell fire” and uses Gehenna (cf. Matt 5:22).

And do I need to say it? … Yes, I know a fuller explanation is wanted on all these terms and texts, but it will have to wait for the book…

When all of this is considered, we see that Jesus didn’t talk about hell more than heaven. He rarely mentions hell at all. As such, I think there is absolutely no place for threatening people with hell if they don’t believe in Jesus for eternal life. Yes, we can warn people (as Jesus did) about the disastrous temporal consequences of their sin, but threatening people with eternal torment in flames is neither Christlike nor theologically correct.

To say that Jesus warned people of hell and so should we is just plain wrong.

Jesus Really Didn’t Talk about Heaven that Much Either

Having said all this, Jesus really didn’t talk that much about heaven either.

Just as we don’t really want to scare people into believing Jesus, we shouldn’t try to bribe them either. While Jesus talks about heaven more than hell, neither have a big emphasis in His teaching.

Instead, Jesus frequently talks about everlasting life, and life in the kingdom of God. Eternal life, of course, begins the moment we believe in Jesus for it, but the longer we live in Him, the great the experience of eternal life gets.

And the Kingdom of God (or the Kingdom of Heaven) is not a synonym for heaven, but simply refers to the rule and reign of God in our lives.

If you want to evangelize, and you want follow the way of Jesus and the apostles, you don’t need to threaten or bribe. Simply lay out the grand vision of what life is like when we live it God’s way. Life under the rule and reign of God is a life of joy, freedom, contentment, fulfillment, and satisfaction. It is a life of laughter and delight. It is a life free from bondage and slavery and addiction. It is life as it was truly meant to be lived.

This is the life Jesus lived, and this is the life Jesus invited people into. If we want to evangelize others like Jesus, we don’t need to threaten them with hell or bribe them with heaven, but can simply invite them into a way of life is that is better than anything else the world has to offer.

This post is part of the May Synchroblog on the topic of hell. Below is a list of the other bloggers who participated this month. Go read what they have to say on the topic of hell.

Stop Being Heterosexual

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I am a “straight” heterosexual male.

I don’t really have an opinion on whether homosexuality is genetic or a choice.

One thing I am quite sure of, however, is that since I am straight, I could never “choose” to be gay. Therefore Amy’s answer to this Christian mother about her gay son is quite good:

heterosexual

I don’t know what your opinions are about LGBT people. But let me encourage you to follow Amy’s advice. If you cannot change who you are attracted to, don’t ask LGBT people to do it either.

Of course, I think there may be a difference between having certain desires and acting up on them, but that is a different subject altogether…

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