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Are Greg Boyd and I arguing the same thing?

By Jeremy Myers
10 Comments

Are Greg Boyd and I arguing the same thing?

A couple weeks ago, I announced that I was giving up on my proposal (…again).

Then Chuck McKnight alerted me to this video interview of Greg Boyd by Nate Cunningham.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pBVQmC09Vw&feature=share&t=13m40s

The video should start at the 13:40 mark, but if it doesn’t, that is where the interview begins to talk about Greg Boyd’s proposal on how to understand the violence of God in the Old Testament.

Greg Boyd’s view sounds shockingly similar to the view I am having great difficultly defending from Scripture. I am not at all saying that Greg Boyd is borrowing from me (he doesn’t know me), but it makes me wonder if I was on the right track after all…

Sigh…

06/26/14 UPDATE:

As a follow-up from the comments below, here is a much more in-depth video about Greg Boyd’s proposal (thanks to Soli Deo Gloria):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5CkCGR9YI4&feature=share&t=28m00s

It sounds shockingly similar to what I have been arguing. I promise I have never watched this video before until yesterday (June 25, 2014). The things he is talking about in this video I was writing about over a year ago. But it looks like he gave this Q&A several months before that… So did Greg Boyd steal my book, or did I steal his? Neither!

I was listening to a podcast this morning from 2012 where Raborn Johnson and Steve Sensenig talked about a Theology Rooted in Love, and they were saying many of the same things as well!

You know what I think is going on? This is another example where the Spirit of God moves in the hearts and minds of people all around the world to see similar truths at similar times so that we all work together to teach and learn what the Spirit is saying to the church. It is, as Richard Rohr calls it, the spiritual “symbiosis” between mutual members of the Body of Christ (Things Hidden, 2).

Anyway, watch the videos above, and then let me know what you think in the comments below.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Discipleship, Greg Boyd, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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Why Atheists are the True Worshipers of God … (and a Call for Christian Atheists)

By Jeremy Myers
58 Comments

Why Atheists are the True Worshipers of God … (and a Call for Christian Atheists)

Atheists are right about God being wrongPeople often assume that we must determine whether or not God exists before we can raise the question of what this God is like.

In other words, why bother with the question of the nature, attributes, and characteristics of God until and unless we first determine the existence of God?

But this exactly what we must do. The question of the existence of God must be secondary to the question of the nature and attributes of God.

Why?

Well, for one reason, how can a person look for God if they don’t know what God looks like? If a person doesn’t know what to look for in God, they cannot very well look for God.

Furthermore, if we begin with the question of the existence of God without first seeking to understand what this God would be like (if he existed), we run the danger of looking for a God who does not actually exist.

And in fact, this is what I think has happened to most atheists.

God-Worshiping Atheists

Many atheists, I believe, have rightly declared their non-belief in a god that truly does not exist.

They have gone looking for a god that does not exist, and, having failed to find him (and how could they?), have declared that god does not exist. Christians take offense to this, and come up with all sorts of arguments for the existence of God, but fail to recognize that they too are arguing (in many cases) for the existence of a god that does not actually exist.

In such cases, it is the atheists who are the true worshipers of the true God, for they have recognized the non-existence of the non-god.

The Christians who seek to defend the existence of the god who is not God are the idolaters, for if they are seeking to call people to believe in a god who is not God, they are calling people to believe in an idol. In such a case, the rejection of this false god by the atheist is an act of pure worship.

Let me get real concrete and specific.

The vast majority of atheists I know today have rejected a god which is believed in by the majority of Christians, namely, a god who hates people of other religion, hates homosexuals, hates democrats, and hates “sinners.” This god of popular Christianity commanded Israel to commit acts of genocide, drowned millions of people in a flood because they sinned too much, and is planning to send the vast majority of the people of this world to an everlasting torment in flames and boiling lava.

Since the God which Jesus revealed to us is nothing like this sort of violent, blood-thirsty, people-torturing god, the atheistic rejection of such a god is an act of true worship of the God revealed in Jesus Christ.

If God is not like what we have been taught, then when we declare, “God does not exist,” we are not denying the God who does truly exist, but the god who is nothing more than a figment of human imagination, philosophical speculation, sociological superstition, and religious wish-fulfillment.

To deny a god who does not exist is to say nothing about the God who does.

When atheists deny a god who does not exist, this is an act of pure worship to the God who does.

A Call for Christian Atheists

So this bring us back to the idea I began with: Before we can discuss whether or not God exists, it might be best to discuss what sort of God we are looking for.

I propose we invite people to look for the God revealed in Jesus Christ, for this is a God who not only exists, but this is a God who can be found.

I believe that if those people who have rightly denied the existence of a god who does not exist were properly introduced to the God who does, they would no longer deny the existence of God.

In my experience, it seems that the vast majority of atheists have not rejected the God revealed in Jesus Christ, but the false god of popular, power-based, political religion.

I reject and deny the existence of that god too … Does that make me a Christian atheist?

So Christians, let us follow our atheist friends in denying the existence of this false god of power, money, bloodshed, and violence, and instead call people to believe in the enemy-loving, all-forgiving God who is found in Jesus Christ dying on the cross.

Only once we present God as what He is like in Jesus Christ can we expect people to “find God” as He truly is, because the God who looks like Jesus is the only God who can be found.

God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: atheists, existence of God, Jesus, Theology of God, violence of God

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Jesus as the Hermeneutical Trump Card in Scripture

By Jeremy Myers
16 Comments

Jesus as the Hermeneutical Trump Card in Scripture

hermeneuticsWhen people seek to defend the idea that God is violent “because the Bible says so,” what they are really doing is allowing the violent portrayals of God in the Bible to override and trump the loving and merciful portrayals of God elsewhere in Scripture, even when both portrayals are talking about the same historical event.

Though both depictions of God are equally inspired, many biblical interpreters choose to let the violent depiction of God override and trump the loving depiction. In this way, it is not a matter of just believing the Bible; it is a matter of choosing which passages take precedence.

This practice is especially shocking when it comes to the revelation in Jesus Christ. Although Jesus is the ultimate revelation of God—the Word of God incarnate—many Bible teachers and writers allow the violent portrayals of God in the Old Testament to override and trump the completely non-violent revelation of God in Jesus Christ.

When people want to defend a violent and vengeful God, they typically jump right over Jesus and go straight to Old Testament texts.

But isn’t this backwards?

Jesus hermeneuticsIf a basic rule of hermeneutics is that the simpler and clearer texts should override the more difficult and troubling texts, and if Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God so that He can say “if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father,” why do we choose to let the more troubling, difficult, and violent texts override and trump the loving, merciful, and Christlike texts?

It is not a matter of one approach considering the whole counsel of God while the other approach neglects certain portions. No, both approaches consider the whole counsel of God. It’s a matter of choosing which parts of Scripture trump, interact with, and explain the other parts of Scripture.

As I continue to seek to understand the violent portrayals of God in the Old Testament, my approach has been to see Jesus Christ as the interpretive principle, the guiding ethic, the hermeneutical trump card of all of the Word of God.

Why?

Because Jesus is the Word of God.

No matter which text we consider, the basic questions are these: Does it look like Jesus? If not, how can we understand this text in light of Jesus? Or, how can we explain and apply this text in a way that looks more like Jesus? And ultimately, how can we apply this text so that it inspires us to love and live like Jesus?

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is z Bible & Theology Topics: Bible Study, hermeneutics, Theology of God, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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4 Shocking Reasons the Bible is Unique (Reason 3)

By Jeremy Myers
8 Comments

4 Shocking Reasons the Bible is Unique (Reason 3)

So far in this short series on why the Bible is unique among the spiritual writings of the world religions, we have seen that the Scriptures reveal human mimetic rivalry and the scapegoat mechanism, and that Jesus fulfills the Hebrew Scriptures (just as He fulfills other religious writings as well). 

The question we concluded the previous post with, however, was that if Jesus fulfills the hopes and dreams and ideals of other religious writings as well, why did Jesus come specifically in fulfillment of the Hebrew Scriptures. This post seeks to answer that question. 

And here is the answer:

The Hebrew Scriptures are the Most Violent

The third reason the Hebrew Scriptures are unique among all religious writings in the world is that they are the most violent religious writings in history.

violence in the Bible

I do not say this lightly.

While I do not consider myself an expert on all the religious writings of all of the main religions in the world, I have read most of the main religious texts for most of the main world religions, and while it is not uncommon to find violent events being described in these other religious books, no other set of religious writings comes even close to describing the violence and bloodshed that one finds within the pages of the Hebrew Scriptures. 

And I am not referring to simple descriptions of human violence, though there is a lot of that within the Bible. I am talking about direct commands from God for His people to go and commit violence. I am talking about commands from God for His people to engage in genocide. I am talking about descriptions of God intentionally setting plans in motion to wipe out entire groups of people (such as the Amalekites), and to kill through natural disasters millions (or maybe even billions) of people (as in the flood). 

When taken as a whole, the Bible is the most violent religious text in all of history. Not even the violence of the Muslim Qu’ran comes close to describing and divinely sanctioning the violence that is found within the pages of the Hebrew Scriptures (see Jenkin’s book, Laying Down the Sword). 

This certainly makes the Bible unique! Though it is not in a way most Christians are comfortable admitting. 

The Bible is violentAnd yet, there is a deep truth here we must not miss. I ended the previous post by asking why God would have Jesus come to fulfill the Hebrew Scriptures if Jesus can conceivably be the fulfillment of other religious Scriptures as well. 

I believe that one of the reasons God chose to have Jesus fulfill the Hebrew Scriptures is because they are the most violent Scriptures. 

Did God choose to do this because He Himself is utterly violent? No! Quite to the contrary, the God which Jesus reveals to us is completely non-violent. 

The God revealed in Jesus Christ would rather die for the worst of His enemies than seek the death of any one of them.

Why then did God choose to send Jesus to specifically fulfill the most violent religious writings of all time? So that He could do what only God can do: So that He could redeem it. 

God wants humanity to understand that nothing and nobody is beyond the scope of His redemptive purposes, and so by sending Jesus as the fulfillment of the most violent of religious texts, God not only revealed Himself by way of a stark contrast to that violence, but also showed how to reinterpret and understand those violent events in light of the self-sacrificial God dying on the cross for the sins of the whole world. 

People rightly question how a good and loving God can allow violence in the world. God answered this vital question by sending His Son, Jesus, as the fulfillment of the most violent religious writings, to show us that He had nothing to do with the violence, but was instead dying along with us in the midst of the violence, taking our sin and suffering upon Himself, bearing our guilt and shame in His own being, all for the sake of those He loved.

Jesus fulfills the hopes and expectations of the violent Hebrew Scriptures by suffering instead of conquering, by serving instead of killing, and by dying so that others might live. 

Bible and the swordThough we may not always understand why and how sin and suffering enters into God’s world, one thing we can know through the crucifixion of Jesus is that God does not send sin and suffering, but rather, is a victim of it along with us. 

With every shed tear and every cry of pain, God suffers. This is why God chose to have Jesus come in fulfillment of the most violent texts. He wanted to show us that God’s role in those violent religious texts is not in the inflicting of pain and suffering of others, but in receiving and suffering that pain along with us. 

In Jesus, we see that God is not against us; God is with us.

Are you shocked yet? Well, it all comes together tomorrow with one last post about how the Bible is unique. We will see that, based on the first 3 shocking ways the Bible is unique, we have been reading the Old Testament wrong all along. Join us tomorrow for the conclusion of this study… 

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: bible, inspiration of Scripture, prophecy, Theology of the Bible, violence, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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The Death of Jesus in the Tenth Plague

By Jeremy Myers
12 Comments

The Death of Jesus in the Tenth Plague

If you haven’t read the previous two posts on the tenth plague, you might want to go do that now. It will help this post make more sense.

  • Understanding the Ten Plagues
  • Who Killed the Firstborn Sons of Egypt?

In light of the idea that God did not kill the firstborn sons of Egypt, why then does the Bible say that it is God who would destroy them (Exodus 11:1, 4-5; 12:12)? This is a perfect example of a place in Scripture where God takes responsibility for a terrible event which occurred on His watch.

tenth plague blood on the door

God didn’t participate in the destructiveness of the event, but due to the rebellion of the Egyptians and the destruction they had invited upon themselves, God was not able to fully prevent the destruction that came, and so took measures to rescue and deliver those He could. As for the rest of the event, God allows Himself to take the blame for the death of the firstborn because this disaster happened on His watch and so He bears responsibility for it.

There are two pieces of evidence later in Scripture which reveal to us that this is the way the tenth plague should be understood. 

The Destroyer Killed the Firstborn Sons of Egypt 

the destroyer tenth plague of EgyptThe first is what the writer of the book of Hebrews says about this event in Hebrews 11:28. In that text, the author clearly hesitates from saying that it was God who killed the firstborn sons of Egypt and writes instead about “he who destroyed the firstborn.” The author of Hebrews seems to be saying that it was the destroyer who destroyed the firstborn sons of Egypt, and it was God who kept the destroyer from touching the sons of those families who had the blood of the lamb on their doorpost.

The Death of Jesus on the Cross Reveals God’s Role in the Passover

It is this blood of the lamb which gives us the second way to read about the tenth plague in a new light. 

Nearly all Christians know that the blood of the lamb is later used to symbolize the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross for us. In the last supper, which was a Passover meal, Jesus talked about His blood being poured out for us (Luke 22:20). The book of Revelation portrays Jesus as the lamb who was slain since the foundation of the world (Rev 5:6). 

So if these sorts of texts guide our understanding of the tenth plague, we must not look to the death and destruction of the firstborn sons of Egypt as a proper indication of God’s activity in this event, but rather, we must look to the blood of the lamb. The lamb slain for protection, deliverance, and redemption is where we see Jesus in the events of the first Passover.

And in fact, the symbolism could not be more clear when we remember that the Israelites would have understood the death of the firstborn sons of Egypt as proper revenge for the death of their own sons at the hands of the Egyptians 80 years earlier. When we remember this, and read about the crucifixion of Jesus in light of the first Passover, the contrast between the God who delivers and the destroyer who kills could not be more clear. 

The way to see Jesus in the text of the tenth plague is not so much in what Jesus did, but in what Jesus did not do. 

For example, when Moses was born, all the sons of Israel were killed by Pharaoh’s army. So, when Moses comes into prophetic power over Egypt, God is shown to be exacting revenge against Egypt by putting to death all the firstborn sons of Egypt. 

When Jesus is born, something similar happens. Herod commands that all the boys two years old and younger in the region of Bethlehem be put to death. If one is thinking that Jesus is fulfilling Moses and following in the footsteps of Israel (as the opening chapters of the Gospel of Matthew indicate), we would expect that Jesus, once He enters into His prophetic power over the Roman Empire, does something similar as what was done in the tenth plague. We would expect Jesus to put to death all the firstborn sons of the Romans. But Jesus does the exact opposite. 

Jesus dies instead of killsRather than kill the firstborn sons of His enemies, Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, lets Himself be killed by His enemies.

Rather than exact revenge upon His enemies for what they had done 33 years earlier, Jesus allows the crime to be repeated again upon Himself. He does not put His enemies to death, but dies in the place of His enemies. 

Rather than take steps to protect Himself from the angel of death, He goes willingly to the slaughter so that His blood can protect His enemies. 

In this way, the crucifixion of Jesus is a shocking reversal and fulfillment of the tenth plague. Through the crucifixion of Jesus, we learn what God is really like. 

God is not a baby-killing deity, who seeks to exact revenge on His enemies for a crime many decades old, but is a self-sacrificial, enemy-loving God, who would rather die for His enemies than see His enemies die.

So when we read about the tenth plague in light of Jesus on the cross, we can see that God is not to be found in the destroying angel who slaughters babies out of revenge or because of the sins of a proud and self-righteous ruler. 

Jesus and the tenth plague

Instead, God is to be found in the self-sacrificial death of a lamb, who pours out His blood for others, so that death and destruction, when it comes, passes over the house and cannot touch those who live within. When Jesus reveals the God of the tenth plague to us, it is not a God of death, fear, and destruction, but a God of deliverance, hope, protection, and redemption.

God of the Old Testament and JesusHow can a God who says "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44) be the same God who instructs His people in the Old Testament to kill their enemies?

These are the sorts of questions we discuss and (try to) answer in my online discipleship group. Members of the group can also take ALL of my online courses (Valued at over $1000) at no charge. Learn more here: Join the RedeemingGod.com Discipleship Group I can't wait to hear what you have to say, and how we can help you better understand God and learn to live like Him in this world!

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Bible Study, death of Jesus, ten plagues, violence of God, When God Pled Guilty

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