following Jesus Archives - Page 4 of 14

My online discipleship group is for people who know they don’t have all the answers, who want to seek truth, wherever it is found, and who like to be challenged in their Christian beliefs and practices. If that describes you, join us today!

On the other hand, below are 10 reasons why you might not be a good fit for my online discipleship group.

You should NOT join my discipleship group IF …

1. You are pretty sure that all of your theology is correct.

I teach some challenging ideas in my discipleship group, and question some fairly traditional church teachings. This might ruffle your feathers.

If you do not like to have your theology or your understanding of Scripture challenged because you think that everything you believe is already 100% correct, the RedeemingGod.com discipleship group will not be a good fit for you. We value asking the hard questions and enjoy discussing difficult issues.

2. You think that the only right way to do church is the way you do it in your church

Several of the courses that are offered in the RedeemingGod.com discipleship area will challenge the way you think about church and do church. For many people, the way they “do church” is the only right way to do it, and anybody who does things differently is doing it wrong.

If that is how you think, the discipleship area is not for you. Our discipleship group contains many people who faithfully follow Jesus every single day without ever stepping foot inside a church building. I think that’s fantastic, because “being” the church does not require “going” to church.

3. You think it is a sin for men to have long hair.

Ok, this one is a little light-hearted, but you would be surprised to know how often I get emails and private FB messages from people who challenge me on the length of my hair. “How can you claim to be a Christian and teach the Bible to others if you have long hair?” they say. “Don’t you know what Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 11:14?

The answer, of course, is that I am very well aware, but I understand the verse in its original context, and so believe it is not a sin at all for men to have long hair. (Paul doesn’t even say it is a sin, by the way.)

The point is that if my hair length is a sticking point for you, this is an indication that you will also have difficulty with the rest of what we discuss inside the discipleship group, and therefore, it is probably not for you.

4. You are a die-hard Calvinist, Arminian, Pentecostal, Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, non-denominationalist, or “Fill-in-the-Blank.”

I don’t promote any one specific tradition or belief system inside the discipleship group, and try to encourage others to do the same. Rather, we try to learn from each other, and pull the good ideas and practices from all Christian backgrounds and traditions. So if you are firmly part of one particular tradition and want to push and promote it on others, this discipleship group will not be a good fit for you.

Furthermore, if you are fully invested in one of these traditions, it is quite likely that some of what we teach and discuss in the group will challenge some of your beliefs and practices, and if you find this offensive or scary, you are probably better off joining a group that is from your particular tradition or practice so that everybody agrees with you and affirms what you do.

In other words, to be part of our discipleship group, you have to be able to be gracious toward those who disagree, and be willing to learn from others,

5. You believe that there are some questions that are “off limits.”

We ask some hard questions inside the discipleship group. Some people are uncomfortable with asking hard questions because their faith cannot handle the challenge. We ask, for example, whether or not God actually exists, whether or not Genesis 1 teaches 7-day creationism, and whether or not a person can be a Christian and still go sin all they want. We even ask some questions that make you squirm, such as “Is masturbation wrong?” or “What was Jesus’ view about homosexuality?”

If these sorts of questions make you angry or uncomfortable, the discipleship group is not for you.

I believe, however, that truth can stand up to any and all questions, and that since God made us to be inquisitive, creative, rational people, it is our duty and obligation to ask any and every question that comes up. If we are right in what we believe, then asking the questions only strengthens our faith, but if we are wrong, then hopefully we want to know it, and we only discover the truth by asking questions.

If you like to ask questions, the discipleship group is for you.

6. You don’t like to read, study, learn, or think.

My online discipleship group is information heavy. It is mostly focused on reading, listening, and writing. There are online courses, quizzes, and books. You will be asked to study, think, and inquire.

A good rule of thumb is that unless you like to read (or listen to) at least 30 books a year, you probably won’t like my online discipleship group. The discipleship area is focused on text and audio material, and so if you don’t spend much time reading theology books, studying Scripture, or listening to theology podcasts or books on audio, you probably won’t enjoy the discipleship area of this website.

But if you love theology podcasts, listening to sermons on the radio, and reading books about Scripture and theology, then the discipleship area will be great for you. This is especially true if you love having your mind stretched, if you embrace difficult questions, and if you enjoy being introduced to new ideas and different ways of viewing Scripture.

7. You only want to study and learn if you get an accredited degree out of it.

If that’s the case, you should probably just go to a Bible College or Seminary. While much what I teach is at the Bible College or Seminary level, and while my discipleship area is 99.99% cheaper than Bible College or Seminary, you are not going to get an accredited degree out of it.

You will, however, deepen your knowledge of Scripture, grow in your relationship with Jesus, and learn how to love and serve others in a more meaningful way, but you will not be able to put initials before or after your name.

8. You only want Bible study material that is free.

I sometimes get the objection that it is wrong for me to charge for access to my material. When I get this objection from Christians, I always ask them, “Have you ever bought a Christian book? Have you ever paid to attend an Evangelism training seminar? Have you ever wanted to go to Bible College or seminary? Do you tithe to your church?”

You can think of my discipleship area in the same way, except that you also gain a connection to me and other like-minded people around the world. Think of it like buying a book or attending a conference where the author and other attendees are all hanging around to talk with you. Also, while 95% of what I teach and write is available for free in various formats, the discipleship area is how people are able to get my most in-depth teaching in logical format and order.

And just like some people tithe to their church or to some Christian ministry because they believe in what that ministry is doing, there are some people who join my discipleship group because they like the online ministry that I provide around the world. Of course, I am not currently a non-profit organization, and so gifts and membership costs are not tax-deductible, but that should never be the reason you support a ministry anyway.

I do give a lot of material away for free, and even have a free section in my discipleship group, but I work really hard at preparing the books, teachings, and courses that I provide inside the discipleship area. The reason I charge for them is so that I can keep this website up and running and offer the free stuff that I do. Without your support, this website would disappear and I would no longer be able to offer free Bible and Theology training to millions of Christians around the world.

9. You believe that Bible study and theology is always serious and never fun.

I will freely admit that I don’t have the greatest sense of humor. When I was a pastor, I was a terrible joke-teller, so one Sunday an elder gave me a “Laugh” sign and told me to hold it up whenever I told a joke so that the congregation would be prompted to laugh.

Nevertheless, I believe that Bible study and theology should never be boring, and that it is okay to laugh, have fun, and approach Scripture light-heartedly. Sure, it is the most important area of study in the world, but this doesn’t mean we have to approach it with nothing but frowns and furrowed brows. Let’s laugh, smile, joke, and have fun.

10. You get angry and defensive when someone challenges your beliefs, and you start calling them names like “heretic” or “false teacher.”

If you have a habit of calling people heretics and false teachers on Facebook, Twitter, or your blog, this discipleship group is not for you. We do not allow divisive behavior like name-calling and public shaming to occur. It is completely okay to disagree with me or anyone else in the group, but it is not okay to try to “win the argument” through abusive and bullying behavior like name-calling and shaming.

So if you only want to join the discipleship group to push your theological agenda and force everyone to believe the way you do, you might want to look elsewhere.

11. You believe that most Democrats (or Republicans, or Progressives, or Conservatives, or Liberals, or Sots, or Anarchists, or “Fill in the Blank”) are evil.

We are not about politics here. We do believe that theology does guide our politics, and we agree that political views can be discussed as part of the discipleship process, but just as we do not condone or allow name-calling and shaming of other people because they hold different theological views, so also, we do not allow name-calling or shaming of people who hold different political views.

If you hate all people who voted for Trump, or if you hate all people who voted for Hillary, this group is not for you, because we have people in the group who did both.

12. You get a thrill out of pointing out where people are wrong.

If you saw point #11 above, and said, “Hey, Jeremy’s a liar. He said there was only 10, and this is number 11! And now he’s moved on to #12!” then maybe the discipleship group is not for you.

Look, I appreciate it when people point out my typos (If you find any in anything you read of mine, please let me know!), and I love a good debate about theology and how to understand Scripture. So if you love these things too, then you will be a good fit for the discipleship group.

If, however, your goal in everything you read or hear is to find the one area in which you disagree just so you can point out to someone where they are wrong, well, you might not be a good fit for the discipleship group.

Still Reading? Please Join Us!

We are a diverse group of people from diverse backgrounds with diverse beliefs. We focus on the core essential elements of following Jesus, and leave room for disagreement and friendly debate. If that sounds good to you, please join us!

The information page about the various discipleship levels contains more information, as well as numerous testimonials from people who are already in the group. Visit that page to read what they have to say, learn more about what is available to you, and join us today. See you on the inside!

If you read through this entire list and are thinking, “Wow, this actually sounds like a place I want to be part of! I would love to learn in this sort of setting!” then register today and start learning along with the rest of us! Go here to learn more and choose which Discipleship level is right for you.

Does a Muslim need to become a Christian in order to follow Jesus?

By Jeremy Myers

56 Comments

This is a guest post by Jim Baton. Jim is an author and peacemaker between Christians and Muslims. Learn more at www.jimbaton.com

Note from Jeremy Myers: If you would like to write a Guest Post for RedeemingGod, begin by reading the Guest Blogger Guidelines.

They say you can’t judge a book by its cover, but a book with a poorly arranged or offensive cover rarely tempts you to pick it up and look inside. On the other hand, packaging that’s attractive to you can move you to take a closer look.

A few years ago a young Muslim woman came to us in great need. She had encountered Jesus through a dream and a dramatic healing, loved him whole-heartedly, and loved reading the Bible. But her family reacted as though she was betraying them and was hunting for her to kill her!

At first I thought her biggest issue would be the rejection of her family. I was surprised when she said that she came to us to learn how to tell her family about Jesus in a way they could understand. And the deepest struggle in her life was actually that she felt like a fish out of water in the church!

My family had lived for many years in a Muslim nation and understood this complex social dynamic well. The young woman had left a community where religion and extended family were a part of every aspect of her life. Losing that sense of community created a profound loneliness. She knew no one she could share this faith-journey with who was from her own language and culture.

Meanwhile, she’d been accepted into a local Christian community of a different ethnicity, language and culture, that encouraged her to dress differently (remove her head covering), eat differently (try some pork!), pray differently (fold your hands), change all her holidays (dropping Idul Fitri for Christmas), and so on.

She never felt like she belonged. She never felt like she could be herself.

Then we told her something that brought life back into her eyes. She told us this was the best news that she’d ever heard.

We told her she didn’t have to become a Christian to follow Jesus.

What did we mean by that? We meant that she didn’t need to join a local church, change her habits and holidays, or start identifying herself by the religion of “Christian.” She had already received the Gospel—she’d received Jesus. He is the Good News, and he doesn’t require us to accept him with unwanted, even offensive, packaging.

What would be better, we told her, was if she would bring Jesus into her world of head coverings and kosher food and Idul Fitri celebrations, and into her family.

Jesus experienced a similar encounter in John 4 when he met the Samaritan woman at the well. The religious culture of his day dictated that there should be a firm wall between Jews and Samaritans, between men and women, between the righteous and the sinner. Jesus didn’t call out to her from his side of the wall for her to change before she could approach him. He crossed over to her side of the wall.

When she brought up the theological wall that should separate them (the proper place of worship), Jesus emphasized that what God was really looking for was worship that came from the inside—“worship in spirit and in truth.” The word “spirit” is the same word for “breath”; the word for “truth” is where we get the word “reality.” God was looking for those whose very breath called out to him; whose worship was real.

The Samaritan woman got this revelation—she could be a worshipper too, just the way she was! She raced back to tell her village, and brought Jesus home to them. So we have the very first account in history of an entire village believing in Jesus as their Messiah, and they weren’t even Jewish! They were from a different religion! They may have never accepted the truth if Jews had brought it to them in a Jewish package, but Jesus broke through every wall for them. They got the Gospel because they got Jesus.

There are people all around us from different ethnic, cultural and religious (or non-religious) backgrounds who have no interest in our churches or our institutional Christianity. They feel they wouldn’t fit in there. But that doesn’t mean they might not want Jesus. They may need to encounter him freed from our unwanted Christian packaging. It may require us going to where they are instead of waiting for them to come to us.

Today my Muslim friend still covers her head, eats no pork, and celebrates Idul Fitri. She’s also introduced her whole extended family to Jesus, and many have received him as their Messiah too. She’s learned to build friendships with Christians, while being herself, and letting Jesus incarnate once again into her skin.

She got the Gospel—she got Jesus.

What do you think of how we responded to this woman? Should we have told her that to truly follow Jesus, she needs to give up her head coverings, start eating pork, and start celebrating Christmas instead of Idul Fitri? Or was our response in line with the Gospel and the example of Jesus, as we allowed Jesus to truly incarnate Himself and the Gospel in this woman’s life, family, and culture? Share your thoughts in the comments below!

Strive for Biblical Living More than Biblical Literacy

By Jeremy Myers

45 Comments

This is the last post in my short series of posts on Biblical illiteracy. Here are the other posts:

As we have seen, there are lots of reports that people are becoming more biblically illiterate.

But I am not convinced that the statistics are true, that we really are becoming more biblically illiterate. It all depends, really, on how a person defines “biblically illiterate,” and I am not convinced that the traditional definitions and tests we use to determine biblical literacy are all that correct. I sort of think that the real problem with biblical illiteracy is how we define and test for biblical illiteracy. For example, I am not sure that knowing Bible facts is the same thing as biblical literacy. From one perspective, it could be argued that people are more biblically literate today than ever before!

I know, of course, that such a statement might be controversial, and so let’s just leave that idea alone for now and agree with the common consensus. Let us concede their claim that people are becoming more and more biblically illiterate. For the sake of argument, let us just assume that this is the case.

I do not see it as a bad thing. I see this as a good thing.

Why?

Because we are finally giving up the illusion that Bible knowledge is the key to living the Christian life.

Frankly, I would love it if more Christians put down their Bibles.

People already know enough. The real issue is that they don’t do enough. They don’t put into practice what they already know.

When pastors and professors bemoan the lack of biblical literacy in the church today, they are telling people that the most important part of the Christian life is knowing more. But it isn’t. The most important part of following Jesus is actually following Jesus into loving and serving others.

Look, the call for biblical literacy is not actually about biblical literacy. These pastors and professors believe that biblical literacy will lead to biblical living. They see people not living very biblically, and not really having a biblical worldview, and so they think that if they can raise the level of biblical literacy, this will raise the level of biblical living as well. But it is not working. There is some question as to whether it ever really did work.

If I had to choose between a Bible expert who could recite large chunks of Scripture from the Greek and Hebrew yet who did not show love toward his neighbor, and someone who barely knew anything about Scripture but who did show love to his neighbor, I will choose the second person every day of the week.

Ideally, it would be nice if everyone was a Bible expert AND they practiced the Bible, but nothing in this life is ideal And in my experience, it seems that Christians often prefer to put off loving other people because they fear they don’t know how, or won’t be able to answer a question properly, or won’t know how to deal with certain objections or issues that often come up. And so, in a good and godly quest to prepare for the act of loving and serving others, they just attend one seminar after another, one training session after another, one class after another, and many of them never get around to actually loving the other person.

What often happens in churches and groups that place a heavy emphasis on biblical literacy is that the goal in the Christian life seems to be little more than the accumulation of Bible facts and theological trivia.

So I am thankful that studies and reports are showing that people are more and more biblically illiterate, because I think it finally raises the question of whether that should have ever been the goal in the first place, and whether or not biblical literacy ever really even “worked” in helping people live biblically.

The goal is biblical living; not biblical literacy.

If we strive for biblical living, we also get biblical literacy. But if we strive for biblical literacy, we end up with neither biblical living nor biblical literacy. We need to stop chasing biblical literacy and start pursuing biblical living.

A lack of biblical literacy is not the problem; a lack of biblical living is. And to live according to the Bible, we might need to stop studying the Bible. Living out the Bible begins by getting our noses out of the Bible.

This can be seen in three points:

When we strive to become biblically literate, there is never any end to it. When the goal is biblical literacy, there is never an end to the studies, seminars, and conferences. You never know enough. It becomes an addiction of sorts.
Biblical literacy doesn’t automatically lead to biblical living. Most people who call for biblical literacy don’t actually want biblical literacy – they want people who follow and obey the Bible. This is a good thing. But the problem is that the same studies which report that people are more biblically illiterate than ever before usually also report that even those who know a lot about the Bible are not actually living that much more biblically than people who are ignorant of the Bible. So if biblical literacy isn’t “working” among those who have it, why are they trying to export it?
Biblical living very often leads to biblical learning. The call for biblical literacy is putting the cart before the horse. We’ve got the order backwards. People often think that you have to learn the Bible before you can live it, but I think that what we are beginning to see is that you actually have to live it before you can learn it. Yes, I know, this seems impossible. How can someone live something they have not learned? Well, they do need to learn a little bit, and the truth is that everyone pretty much already knows that little bit. So they don’t need to learn more until they have learned to live what they already know. Then, as issues comes up, as questions arise, these call them back to Scripture and Bible study and Christian for answers and ideas.

I call this “on the way” teaching. Or it could be called “Just in time” learning, or “On Demand” learning. This is the best way to learn something. You don’t need to learn something until you need it, and you don’t know what you need to learn until it comes up.

Here is how this works: You go out and you love or serve somebody. You put into practice the little bit you do know. And when an issue or question comes up that you cannot address, you say, “That is a great question. I don’t know. Let’s discuss it more together. What do you think? Let’s read this book. Let’s invite some others into this question and see what they say.”

In this way, you don’t come across as a know-it-all, you praise and honor the other person for their great question, and then you model for this other person the importance of ongoing study and learning and most of all, the importance of a community of relationships.

On the Way Learning was Modeled by Jesus

On the way learning is a beautiful way of learning that is modeled, of course, by Jesus. Jesus didn’t spend three years teaching His disciples in a classroom before sending them out. No, He told them a little bit, and then sent them out, and then when they came back, they debriefed and told Him what they saw and heard, and He taught them a bit more, and then sent them out again.

People don’t need more Bible learning. They just need to go out and live what they already know. Then, if they need more learning, well, they know what they need to learn and so it will mean that much more to them.

And how much does a person need to learn before they go out? I believe that pretty much everything a person needs to know to begin living biblically can be taught to them in 20 minutes. Maybe less. If I was really pressed for time, it could probably be taught in one minute or so. (See below)

The bottom line is that people know enough already. They don’t need to know more. They can go out and start loving and serving right now. When they do this, they will WANT to learn more when they see the usefulness and importance of what they already know.

So send them out! Encourage them to go out. Liberate them. Praise them for what they do. God is not saying to the church “Let my people learn,” but rather, “Let my people go!”

1 Minute Biblical living

If I had one minute to tell you everything you need to know to begin living biblically, I would say something like this:

If there is one thing Jesus reveals over and over, it is that you are loved. More than you can ever possibly know. This means there is nothing you can do to mess up. Nothing. So relax. Enjoy life. Enjoy people.

And as you come to the realization of how loved you are, try to show that same love to other people. You don’t need to correct their sin. You don’t need to invite them to church. You don’t need to tell them to do anything. Just love them. Love others as you have been loved and as you would want them to love you.

The rest follows from love. Everybody can love, and once you have learned to love, the rest just follows naturally.

Go ahead, read that out loud and time yourself. It’s about 1 minute, right? And living out what is said in those few sentences will take the rest of your life. And guess what? Even if you can’t list the four Gospels, the 10 Commandments, or the 66 books of the Bible, but you live out what is said above, you will be living biblically, even if you are technically “biblically illiterate.” Who can complain about that?

I believe it is not a problem that people know less about the Bible than they used to know. All I really care about is that people try to live out whatever it is they do know. How about you? What do you believe about this topic? Weigh in below!

Salvation is Like a Seven-Foot Invisible Rabbit

By Jeremy Myers

18 Comments

This is a guest post by Peter Rouzaud. Peter recently started reading this blog, and then later discovered that he and I live in the same town! So we met for coffee and he shared with me some of his articles he has written. Below is one of these articles.Peter has also written a book called Finding Perfect Peace which can be found on Amazon.

Have you ever seen the movie “Harvey“?

It’s a great old movie, staring Jimmy Stewart. Stewart plays Elwood P. Dowd, an eccentric whose good friend is a seven-foot rabbit that talks. The only problem is that Dowd is the only one that can see or hear his friend Harvey. Understandably, this creates lots of problems for Dowd.

Now just imagine if this were possible: Imagine that you had a friend that no one could see, no one else could hear, yet whom you could see and hear perfectly. How would this make you feel? Among other feelings, I think it would make you feel special. But you would certainly have trouble communicating to others who and what your friend was.

This, I think, is a great example of ‘faith in Christ.’ No matter what I say about Him. No matter how passionate I am in my explanations, it is impossible for me to adequately describe who Jesus is to me. I may say to you, “Jesus told me something today’. Or, “Jesus is helping me in this way today.” Or, “Jesus did something very great in my life today.”

If you grew up in the church, you might understand what I mean. On the other hand, you might look at me as if I said that Harvey the seven-foot rabbit did and said all these things.

Each of us have experiences with Jesus that make sense to us, but which are difficult, if not impossible, to explain to other people. But this does not mean our experience with Jesus is a figment of our imagination.

Spiritual Experiences and the Christian

Before I go on, let me say that I am not advocating or promoting purely unsubstantiated, subjective experiences. Every religion has it’s esoteric experiences. Voodoo has its emotional trances. Mormonism has its ‘burning in the bosom.’ Pentecostalism has its tongues and prophetic utterances. All these use such experiences to claim legitimacy and to validate the “faithful.” But this is not what I am talking about.

Neither am I saying that ‘all personal experiences are somehow OK and right for the individual and we should not judge others experiences; because they are just as legitimate as our own.’

No, what I am saying is that God can give you an experience that is unique to you, and He can give me an experience that is unique to me. And just as I have to trust my experience, you have to trust your own! And just as neither one of us can fully understand or share the experience of the other, so also, neither one of us can directly challenge or invalidate the experience of the other.

A Validation of Your Experience with God

Here are some thoughts which validate your unique experience with God:

It’s is impossible for God to lie (Num 23:19)
God said that if you seek Him with your ‘whole’ heart you would find Him (Prov. 2:1-10)
Jesus said that God wants us to worship Him is Spirit and in truth (John 4:24)
The apostle John said that the Spirit of God would lead us into all truth (1 John 2:27 )
Jesus said that , ‘all that came to Him, he would not cast us out (John 6:37)
Jesus said that he would actually live inside us by his Spirit (John 14:16-17)

Essentially, all religion is subjective; none of it can be scientifically proven to be genuine.

This is not to say that all religion is valid; only that God is the one that judges its validity. But aside from its subjective nature, pure religion must have its source from God. And if the source is from God, I don’t have any control over your experience. I may have an opinion about it, but ultimately, your experience is between you and God.

Experience is a part of Relationship

God wants a relationship with his children (us humans). But just as with any relationship, there are conditions for how that relationship begins and continues.

But a problem arises among Christians when I begin to think that the conditions and experiences of my relationship with God are normative for all other children of God. We get into trouble if I think that my relationship with God is what every other relationship with God should look like.

But this expectation does not match any other relationship in life. While there are similarities in all marriages, no marriage relationship began or continued to develop like any other marriage relationship. Every marriage is unique. In the same way, While there may be some similarities in all parent-child relationships, no parent-child relationship progressed or grew like any other parent-child relationship.

So if my marriage looks nothing like your marriage, do I have any right to say that you are not, in fact, married? No!

But this is what we sometimes to as Christians.

I look at how I became a child of God and if your story of how you became a child of God does not match up with mine, I might be tempted to think that you are not, in fact, a child of God at all! Or if I have certain experiences in my relationship with Jesus, but you don’t share those experiences at all, I might be tempted to think you don’t have a relationship with Jesus. In both cases, you might think the same thing about me. And if we get to arguing about this, it’s going to cause divisions and problems.

Thankfully, God has it all figured out

One thing we can be sure of, and this is what we must hold to, is that God knows every man intimately, and He promised to reveal Himself to any man who wants to know Him.

So it matters little what I think of your experience with God. Nor does it matter what you think of my experience. What matters is what God sees deep down in our heart.

The tricky part, however, is what we see from Elwood P. Dowd. Though his belief in Harvey made him different, I am certain that it is not God’s intent just to make us different from the world. His intent is more complicated than that.

I have found that my relationship with God does make me different, but there is the huge distinction. Harvey made Dowd different according to Dowd’s own propensities, but Jesus makes each of us different according to God’s propensities and His character. This is never easy, and there is a strong part of me that continually fights this change. But change I do, not just outwardly, but deep inside.

And, by the way, this is how I know that my relationship with my “invisible friend” is genuine: my propensities change into something I never wanted or imagined.

To try to convince anyone of this subjective experience is futile, and a waste of time. The fact is, God does a better job, we only need to ask Him to reveal Himself to us, and if our heart is honest, He will.

Are you uncomfortable with comparing your relationship with Jesus to Dowd’s relationship with an invisible, talking rabbit? Explain why in the comment section below.

Or maybe it gives you comfort to know that your relationship with Jesus has been tailor-made to fit you and your personality, and to bring you into a deeper relationship with God, so that what you experience with God will not ever be duplicated or matched by any other person you encounter? Maybe this gives you the freedom to stop trying to “measure up” to the experiences of others.

65 Million American Adults Have Left the Church?

By Jeremy Myers

51 Comments

According to recent research, of the 210 million adults in the United States, 65 million of them used to attend church regularly but no longer do, and 2.7 million more leave every year.

Church as we know it is dying.

[Want to read some of the research for yourself? Find numerous church statistics here (much of which seems contradictory) or get Josh Packard’s book which contains the latest research on this subject.]

But, in my opinion, this does not mean at all the church itself is dying.

How could it? Jesus said, “I will build my church …” Do we honestly think He will fail in this?

No, I believe the church of the future looks absolutely nothing like the church most people are familiar with.

In fact, for many people already, the church of the present looks nothing like the church of the past.

But that is not the point of this post…

I want to talk briefly about those 65 million adults who no longer attend church.

65 Million Adults No Longer Attend Church

A recent study on these 65 million adults discovered that while they no longer attend church, 30 million of them still identify themselves as Christian, and are still actively engaged in various practices and relationships that closely mirror some of the activities and relationships a person might practice in a church building except that they are no longer in a church building.

They firmly believe they are followers of Jesus and are still part of the Church, even though they no longer sit in a pew on Sunday morning.

Do you have a problem with that?

I don’t. I say, “May their tribe increase!”

But I don’t really even want to talk about them.

I want to talk about the other 35 million.

35 Million Have Completely Abandoned Jesus?

I want to talk about the 35 million who used to attend church, and who no longer do, and who no longer self-identify as Christians or claim to follow Jesus or worship God in any meaningful way.

For myself, I find that number highly suspect.

I certainly have not done any sort of scientific research into this segment of the population, but I work in an environment where I get to interact with a lot of religious and non-religious people, and I have had countless conversations with people who probably count as one of the 35 million people who used to attend church and identify as Christian, but no longer do.

And it’s true …

… They don’t attend church. They don’t read their Bibles. They don’t pray. They don’t call themselves “Christian.” They don’t claim to follow Jesus. They use coarse language. They live what appears to be completely “secular” lives.

But do you want to know what I have found?

I have yet to talk to a single person who truly has abandoned God or rejected Jesus.

I am not saying these people don’t exist. I know they do. I just think the number is much, much smaller than 35 million. I would be surprised if it was even 10% of that number.

Here is why I say this …

When I talk to individuals who used to attend church but now want nothing to do with God, Jesus, church, the Bible, or anything of the sort, one of the initial questions I always ask is, “So why did you leave it all behind? What happened? What changed?”

Without fail, I get an answer that falls somewhere into one of the following sorts of explanations:

The church told me I had to believe in 6 24-hour days of creation 6000 years ago. I couldn’t believe that, so I figured that if this is what it meant to be a Christian, I couldn’t be one.

OR

The church was all about hate. They hated gay people. They hated democrats. They hated Muslims. I have some gay friends. I have some Muslim friends. I am a democrat. So I left Christianity.

OR

Have you read the Old Testament? God is drowning everybody who lives and telling the Israelites to slaughter people. I once told my Bible study leader that I was uncomfortable with a God who does these sorts of things, and he told me that I had to love and worship this God or I couldn’t be a Christian. So I’m not a Christian.

OR

Have you read all those silly laws in the Bible? Laws about what I can and cannot wear? What I can and cannot eat? Who I can and cannot hang out with? I like cheeseburgers. I like bacon. And I like hanging out with people who also like to eat these things. I couldn’t follow a God who made a bunch of dumb laws like that.

OR

My pastor was a pedophile and the church board tried to cover it up so the church wouldn’t split. I wonder how many children he molested which we will never know about? I couldn’t have anything to do with people who cover up things like that. So I left and never looked back.

There are a few other similar explanations I have heard, but those are the sorts of explanations I typically hear.

And do you know how I always respond?

Here is what I say:

Guess what?

God agrees with you.

When you reject a religious group because they are closed off about science, or teach you to hate people because they’re different, or tell you that genocide is good and holy, or cover up child molestation to protect a pastor, God cheers you on.

When you turned your back on these things, you did not turn your back on God.

No, you rejected the things God Himself rejects. You did not turn from God; you turned to God.

The truth is that you know what God is like, apparently better than many church people do.

God is like Jesus, and Jesus accepts everybody, loves everybody, forgives everybody. If you want to live like this toward others, then you have not abandoned God, but have been following Him (even if you didn’t know it).

Jesus condemned genocidal behavior. He condemned all portraits of a violent God. If you condemn genocide and violence, then you have not abandoned God, but have been following Him.

The only people Jesus ever condemned are the religious leaders who had a bunch of silly rules to keep people away from God and who covered over their own hypocritical sins and perversions for the sake of power, manipulation, and control. If you condemn these sorts of behaviors in religious people, then you are condemning the things that God also condemns, and you have not abandoned God, but have been following Him.

A lot of people, when they hear this, look at me sort of skeptically, because they have heard the exact opposite from most churches and church leaders. They often say,

Well, if you’re right, I could maybe follow a God like that. But I’ve never heard this before from anybody.

So if I get the chance, I approach the topic from another direction. I might say,

I don’t know if you believe in God or not. You say you don’t. Fine. But hypothetically, IF God did exist, IF there was a God, what would you like Him to be? How would you like Him to behave? What would you like Him to do?

I am not asking you what you think God is like, or what you think the church says God is like. I am asking you what you would like God to be like … if He exists.

They sit back, and they usually joke around a bit about how they want God to give them a million dollars and a mansion on the beach and let them live forever in perfect health.

But eventually, if I press a bit, they get around to describing a God who is not that worked up about sin, but who loves everybody and teaches people to love everybody.

They describe a God who understands how painful and difficult life is, and who knows that a bunch of religious rules and regulations don’t help.

They dream about a God they can talk to and who is with them in their pain, and fear, and sorrow.

They hope that God accepts people regardless of their sexual or political orientation, who sides with the poor and the outcast, who doesn’t have favorites, and who wants equality, justice, freedom, and fairness for all.

And as they dream dreams out loud about God, I get to smile and, when they are done, say,

Guess what? I’ve got some really good news for you.

The God you have described is the God who exists. THAT is what God IS like. THAT is the God revealed by Jesus.

The God you rejected, the God of popular Christianity, is not God.

You rejected a god who kills, steals, and destroys. But God doesn’t do that. You rejected a satanic version of God, which means that by rejecting that false god, you were actually worshipping the true God!

In your heart, you know God. You know what He is truly like. And so when you rejected the god of religion, you actually turned toward the God who truly is.

In fact, in turning away from that god, you were actually following the true God, and you just didn’t know it.

Most people cannot believe this right away, because they have never heard such a thing before.

But sometimes, this idea leads to further conversations, and further questions.

Do you know someone who is angry at God, the Bible, or the church?

If you know someone who is angry at God, the Bible, or the church, praise them for it. Most likely, their anger is Godly anger. Most likely, their disgust is righteous. Most likely, they are representing God’s true heart.

The next time you encounter someone who has “left the church” or “rejected God” rather than tell them that they need to come back, instead, strike up a conversation by asking them what happened, or why they made the decision they did.

And whatever you do, never ever ever EVER have this conversation with the goal of inviting such a person to come to your church. Never.

If you have this sort of conversation with someone, and then you end it with, “So come to our church on Sunday! This is what our pastor teaches! His sermons are great!” you will probably never have a conversation with that person again. They will think that the only reason you said what you said was to get them into a pew at your church. They will see it as manipulative (and they would be right).

In fact, even if the person offers on their own to attend your church, please, tell them not to. Obviously, you cannot forbid them to visit your church, but gently tell them that since they know God so well, they don’t really need to “attend a church” on Sunday morning.

Invite them instead to just be open on a daily basis to what God wants to show them about Himself. Tell them that apparently, God has led them out of the institutional church for a reason, and so He might not want them to go back in. They are still part of His Church, but there might be something else He has in store for them that does not involve singing songs and listening to a sermon on Sunday morning.

Tell them that apparently, they have been doing a fine job of following Jesus, and they should simply be open to seeing where He leads them next.

This will be such a relief to them, that it might be just the thing they need to hear to encourage them to seek God and follow Him intentionally for the first time in their lives. For you have just told them that God is with them, that God wants to lead them, that they can hear from God and know Him within the community of friends they already have. They don’t need to add something “spiritual” to their life; they only need to recognize that God is already there with them, that their entire life is already spiritual.

So those are my thoughts about the so-called “35 million who have turned away from God.” I don’t think they need someone to invite them to “return.” No, what they need is for someone to praise them for their choice, and tell them that in rejecting a manipulative, fear/guilt/shame-based, violent religion, they have not abandoned God, but have actually followed Him into a place that look, sounds, and acts more like Jesus.

Maybe you will be that someone…

10 Reasons You Should NOT Join my Online Discipleship Group

1. You are pretty sure that all of your theology is correct.

2. You think that the only right way to do church is the way you do it in your church

3. You think it is a sin for men to have long hair.

4. You are a die-hard Calvinist, Arminian, Pentecostal, Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, non-denominationalist, or “Fill-in-the-Blank.”

5. You believe that there are some questions that are “off limits.”

6. You don’t like to read, study, learn, or think.

7. You only want to study and learn if you get an accredited degree out of it.

8. You only want Bible study material that is free.

9. You believe that Bible study and theology is always serious and never fun.

10. You get angry and defensive when someone challenges your beliefs, and you start calling them names like “heretic” or “false teacher.”

11. You believe that most Democrats (or Republicans, or Progressives, or Conservatives, or Liberals, or Sots, or Anarchists, or “Fill in the Blank”) are evil.

12. You get a thrill out of pointing out where people are wrong.

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35 Million Have Completely Abandoned Jesus?

Here is why I say this …

And do you know how I always respond?

Do you know someone who is angry at God, the Bible, or the church?

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