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I’ll define the Trinity… If you define God

By Jeremy Myers
40 Comments

I’ll define the Trinity… If you define God

The last couple weeks I have been working my way through dozens of Bible and theology questions which people have submitted through that “ask a question” area in the sidebar. Below is a question that made me laugh, not because it was a silly question (there’s no such thing), but because of how impossible it was to answer!

define the trinity

The reader essentially asked me to define the Trinity…

I want to know more about the Trinity. Thank you.

Below is the answer I sent back to the reader. Feel free to help me out with a better explanation of the Trinity in the comment section below.


Whew!

Asking me to explain or define the Trinity is almost like asking me to define God! An impossible task!

There is so much to discuss and talk about regarding the Trinity, it is hard to know where to begin or exactly what you want to know about the Trinity. So let me do my best to briefly explain and define the Trinity, and also explain why the Trinity is essential and important for Christian doctrine.

Define the Trinity

define the trinityFirst, the Trinity is best defined as “One God who exists in three persons.” There are not three Gods. There is only one God. But somehow, in ways beyond human comprehension, God exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

There is no good analogy in creation, but some have likened the Trinity to the three forms of water, ice, water, and steam, while others have equated it to the light and heat of the sun. My personal preference (though again, it is a bad analogy) is how we as humans consist of body, soul, and spirit. We are one person with three parts. Of course, God does not consist of parts. Each person of the Trinity is fully God.

It is difficult to understand, but this is primarily because we are not God.

Explaining the Trinity to mortal human beings is like trying to explain colors to a blind man or sound to a deaf person. It like trying to use words to explain speech to a dog. You can bark at the dog, but that doesn’t help, and you can speak to a dog with words, but he won’t understand what you’re saying and will never be able to speak for himself.

Believing in the Trinity

So if the Trinity is so difficult to understand, why is it important to believe? There are probably thousands of reasons why the Trinity is critical to Christian thought, but there are three of the most important reasons. (Yes, I chose three simply because I am writing about the Trinity.)

1. First, the Bible teaches us that God exists as a Trinity.

No, the word “trinity” is never used in the Bible, but there are passages all over the place which reveal that there are three persons in the Godhead who exist together as one God.

We know, for example, that God is one (Deut 6:4; 1 Tim 2:5; 1 Cor 8:6; etc.), and yet Jesus, who most perfectly revealed God to us (John 14:7; Col 1:15; Heb 1:3) often spoke of His Father and of sending the Holy Spirit (e.g., John 10; John 14-17). Even at the baptism of Jesus, we see Jesus coming up out of the water and the Holy Spirit descending upon Him like a dove, and the Father speaking to Jesus from heaven (Matt 3:16-17).

There are numerous other passages, but the bottom line is that whether we understand it or not, the Bible teaches the reality of the Trinity (cf. Matt 28:19; 2 Cor 13:14; 1 Pet 1:2).

2. Second, the Trinity is important because it shows that God is relational and loving.

Christians believe that God does not change in His character or attributes. Yet think about what it would mean for God to not be a Trinity. If God did not exist as a Trinity, then prior to the creation of humans and prior to the creation of angels, God could not have lived in any form of loving relationship with anybody or anything.

Without the Trinity, God could not have lived for eternity in love or in relationship. The Trinity allows the loving and relational attributes of God to have eternally existed with God.

trinity in relationshipOther monotheistic religions which have no concept of the Trinity have great trouble explaining or understanding how God could be loving and relational. Why? Because for most of God’s existence, there was no one to love other than himself.

In fact, it could be argued that if there was no Trinity, there could have been no creation whatsoever. Why not? Because if the Trinity did not exist, then God would not be relational (because there was no one to relate to), and hence, there would be no reason for God to create anything with which to relate. The only way a non-relational God would decided to create being to love and take care of was if He recognized that without other beings in the universe, He was lacking or deficient in some way. But then, this makes God less than God!

A non-Trinitarian God could not and would not create, unless He decided to become relational and loving, in which case, He would be admitting some sort of imperfection in His being.

It is much better to believe what the Bible teaches, that God is loving and relational and as such, has always existed in a loving relationship within the Trinity. As a result of this loving relationship, God decided to create other beings with which to share the loving relationship He already experienced within the Godhead.

3. This then leads us to the third reason the Trinity is important: Christians love others because God is love.

Christianity is an outward, loving, relational-focused way of living. Part of this is because we believe in the Trinity. In Genesis we read that God created us in His own image. There is a wide range of ideas on what this means, but one thing that is certainly included in the truth of being created in God’s image is that we were created for community. Just as God had an eternal relationship within the Trinitarian Godhead, so also, humans are to live in relationships with God and with one another.

The love that each member of the Godhead shares with the other members of the Trinity was also shared with humans when we were created. We love because He first loved us.

If there was no Trinity and yet somehow, God inexplicably decided to create humans, then it would be logical to say that love and community was not an essential character of God, and therefore, need not be an essential part of our life either. If God did not eternally exist in a loving Trinity, then we would not need to exist in love either.

So again, without a belief in the Trinity, we lose a belief in a loving God, and therefore, lost any reason to believe that God wants us to love others. If we are to act like God and God has existed without showing love toward others for most of eternity, then there is little reason to live in loving ways toward others now, for love would not be an essential characteristic or attribute of God.

I could go on and on, but I hope that this answer helps briefly explain and define the Trinity and show why belief in the Trinity is essential to Christian belief and practice.

If you want to weigh in, please feel free to add your comments below. Also, please consider sharing this post on Twitter and Facebook below because then others can benefit from the discussion on this theological question.

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Bible and Theology Questions, God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, God the Son, love of God, Theology of God, Trinity

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Is it wrong for Christians to call God “Allah”? You might be surprised at my answer…

By Jeremy Myers
86 Comments

Is it wrong for Christians to call God “Allah”? You might be surprised at my answer…

Call God Allah

Most think of Allah as the god of Islam. And yet there are many Eastern and Middle-Eastern Christians who call God “Allah.” Is this wrong? Recently a reader sent in this question: 

I love your newsletter and also the freedom to comment, so that I can read others people believe too…

Anyway, the reason I sent you this email is that I would like to ask you about something. In Indonesia, there are some Christian people who are trying to tell people it is wrong to call God “Allah.” They say we should use God’s original name, YHWH. The reason they say this is because Allah is the name used by Muslim’s  for their god.

Personally, I do not mind using the name Allah, since I know which Allah I am talking and praying too… I pray to the Allah who sent Jesus to redeem us…

Would you maybe talk about this? Have you heard about this before?


As with most of my attempts at answering theological questions, I want to approach this question somewhat backwards. 

The Traditional Answer is NO. You cannot call God Allah.

The traditional way of handling the difficult question of whether or not it is okay to call God Allah is by comparing Christianity and Islam, and then saying that since the religions are so different, it would be wrong to name the Christian God Allah. 

call God Allah

For example, here is an article where Albert Mohler says pretty much this very thing. Here is a quote:

“If Allah has no son, Allah is not the father of our Lord Jesus Christ…This is no mere ‘discussion and bickering.’ This is where the Gospel stands or falls,” the theologian concluded.

Then there is this informative article which shows all the differences between the God of the Christianity and Allah of Islam. 

In some ways, I am in agreement with those two articles. To say that God can be called “Allah” risks causing a lot of confusion in the minds of many people. There are vast differences between the God of the Christian Bible and the Allah of the Muslim Quran. 

Furthermore, can you imagine asking a Muslim to name their god Yahweh? Of course not! Imagine the outrage! 

Can you imagine asking Muslims to accept the idea that Allah had a son, or became flesh in Jesus Christ? Never! 

So if Muslims know and recognize that Allah and Yahweh are so radically different, isn’t it odd that some Christians are willing to call God Allah? 

This is the traditional way of answering this theological question about whether or not it is right to call God Allah. The traditional answers have a lot going for them.

And yet…. 

My Backwards Way of Answering…

(Here we get into the backwards way of answering this question about whether or not you can call God Allah… you’ve been warned). 

I often think that one of the problems with a lot of theological debates centers not around the various opinions, but in how the question itself is asked. The way a question is asked often frames the debate. 

The question for this debate is asked this way: “Is it wrong to call God Allah”? 

Those who say it is wrong point to all the questionable activities and commands that Allah gave in the Quran. They say that Allah could not have had a son. That Allah could not have become flesh. That Allah is not a Trinity. 

Hmm…

So let me ask the question a completely different way, to see if we can get a different answer. 

Is it wrong to call God Yahweh? 

Before you answer, I invite you to think through all the violent and questionable commands and activities of Yahweh in the Old Testament. I invite you to consider whether or not a Jewish person would think that Yahweh could have a son. I invite you to consider what a Jewish person would think about Yahweh becoming flesh. I invite you to think about what a Jewish person would say about Yahweh being a Trinity. 

Call God Yahweh

If we are completely honest with ourselves (and with the Old Testament text), I think the answer we give to the question “Is it wrong to call God Allah?” should be the same answer we give to the question “Is it wrong to call God Yahweh?” 

Can I put it bluntly? The God depicted in the Old Testament often seems more bloody, devious, and vengeful than any depiction of Allah in the Quran. 

But what about Jesus? What about the New Testament? Jesus looks nothing like Allah!

Yes. that is true. But again, if we are honest, Jesus doesn’t look a whole lot like Yahweh either.  

(I should say at this point that I am currently writing a book about how Yahweh looks exactly like Jesus, but only when viewed through the lens of Jesus dying on the cross. But the book is less than half-way finished… and if I cannot prove the thesis to my satisfaction, I see no way out of the dilemma about how to reconcile the love of Jesus with the violence of Yahweh  other than to say that in some way or another, the Old Testament is wrong in its portrayal of God. Anyway, stay tuned for more about this book…)

Yahweh vs. Jesus vs. Allah

If we can say that Jesus reveals Yahweh to us when Yahweh looks nothing like Jesus, I don’t have too much difficulty saying that maybe Jesus reveals Allah to us as well, even though Allah looks nothing like Jesus. When it comes to both Yahweh and Allah, I would say that there seems to be both good things and bad things about both, but Jesus came to show us what God is really like… and to help us separate the truly divine nature from the blood-bathed human trappings we have clothed God in. 

Does this mean that Yahweh and Allah are the same? No! Nobody can logically make that comparison. Sure, there are a few similarities, but their differences are too vast. 

So while I would never ever ask a Muslim to call Allah “Yahweh,” so also, I would never ask a Jewish person  or a Christian to call Yahweh, “Allah.” 

Is it wrong to call God Allah?

I invite all Christians, whether they are Western, Eastern, or Middle-Eastern Christians, that when they pray to God, they picture Jesus. Why? Because Jesus is the center of our faith and practice, and (more importantly for this question), Jesus reveals God to us!

Jesus says that if we have seen Him, we have seen the Father (John 14:7). Paul writes that Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:15) and that in Jesus dwelt all the fullness of God (Col 1:19). The book of Hebrews says that Jesus is the exact representation of God (Heb 1:3). 

So if, when you think about God, you picture the God revealed in Jesus Christ, but use the name Yahweh, I have no problem with that. It might be confusing to Jewish people, but we are not asking them to picture Jesus when they talk about ha shem (the way they pray and speak about Yahweh). But if they ask if you are Jewish, you can say no, that you are a follower of Jesus. 

And if, when you think about God, you picture the God revealed in Jesus Christ, but use the name Allah, I have no problem with that. It might be confusing to Muslim people, but we are not asking them to picture Jesus when they talk about Allah. But if they ask if you are Muslim, you can say no, that you are a follower of Jesus.

And if, when you think about God, you picture the God revealed in Jesus Christ, but use the generic name “God,” I have no problem with that either. Most people might wonder which God you are referring to, and if they ask, you can point them to Jesus. 

What are your thoughts on this? Is it wrong for Christians to call God Allah?


Note: After I wrote this post, I decided to search the internet to see what others might be saying about this topic, and discovered, much to my dismay, that violence is erupting in Malaysia because Christians want to call God Allah. I imagine that maybe this is why someone sent the question in to me…

Ironically, this changes my answer somewhat. Though theologically, I stand by what I have written above, from a practical standpoint, I am not sure calling God Allah is worth dying over… If Muslims are offended by us referring to the God revealed in Jesus Christ with the name “Allah,” but Christians feel it is our “right” to refer to God however we want, I echo Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 6:7: “Why not rather be wronged?”

Of course, having said that, many early Christians were killed and persecuted by Jewish people (Read the book of Acts) because they equated Jesus with Yahweh… but the Christians thought the risk of arrest and death was worth it… And yet, the biblical case for equating Jesus with Yahweh is much stronger than the case for equating Jesus with Allah (there is no biblical case for it).

So what is my NEW final (tentative) answer? It’s this: Follow your own conscience and the leading of the Holy Spirit and the wise counsel from other mature Christians in your local community of believers…

God is Uncategorized Bible & Theology Topics: Allah, Bible and Theology Questions, Discipleship, God, Jesus, Muslims, prayer, Theology of God, Yahweh

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Why Did Jesus say, “My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?”

By Jeremy Myers
82 Comments

Why Did Jesus say, “My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?”

why have you forsaken me?A reader recently sent a a series of questions about the experience of Jesus on the cross. I have answered most of the questions in previous posts (since the list below). In this post I will address the question about what Jesus meant when He said, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Here is the question the reader originally submitted:

I am a believer, but I am troubled by an atheist’s questions. I was talking to an atheist the other day, and he said that God doesn’t know what it’s like to lose a son because he knew all along that Jesus would rise in three days, so he only lost him for the weekend! He also questioned that if God is Jesus, why did he beg to be saved from the cross when he was in the garden? Also, shouldn’t Jesus already have known he would rise again in three days? Why did he ask God, “Why have you forsaken me?” Wouldn’t he know that he’s only going to be dead three days?

Since this is such a complex set of questions, I am answering them in four posts:

  1. How to Answer Questions of Atheists
  2. 2 Traditional Explanations for How God knows what it is Like to Lose a Son (both of which I reject)
  3. 2 Ways God Knows What it is like to Experience the Death of a Child
  4. Why did Jesus say, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

The first three posts covered most of the issues, but there are two main questions left.

First, why did Jesus beg to be saved from the cross when He was in the garden? Second, why did He ask God, “Why have You forsaken Me?”?

That first unanswered question I have already attempted to answer in a previous post where I talked about the phrase, “Let this cup pass from me.” Though my interpretation of that statement by Jesus in the garden is somewhat controversial, it seems to make the most sense out of the context, and Jesus’ attitude leading up to the cross. I do not think Jesus was praying for a way out of the pain and suffering; His love for humanity was too great for that. No, I think Jesus was praying for strength to face the pain and suffering He knew He was about to bear.

So I am not going to write anything more about that here.

Let us focus instead on the statement of Jesus from the cross where He cried out, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Why Have You Forsaken Me?

This question from Jesus on the cross is found in Matthew 27:46-47 (and in Mark 15:34), and is a quotation from Psalm 22:1. It is asked by Jesus as He suffers on the cross, and faces the sin of the world being poured out upon Him.

why have you forsaken meThe main point of the question above is that since both Jesus and God the Father knew that God would raise Jesus from the dead (Matt 12:40), in what sense what Jesus forsaken by God?

In other words, if being forsaken means to be abandoned, rejected, despised, how could Jesus say, “Why have you forsaken me?” when He knew that He would be raised from the dead, and therefore, not ultimately forsaken, that is, not really abandoned, rejected, or despised?

The answer, I think, lies in understanding to some degree the eternal relationship that has existed between God the Father and God the Son.  Understanding this relationship, and the cry of Jesus from the cross, leads to a shocking idea (for me, anyway) about the experience of Jesus on the cross.

His Eternal Relationship seemed Broken

Since God the Father and God the Son have existed in an eternal relationship, they had never been separated by anything for any length of time in any way, shape, or form. Nothing had ever come between them the way of will, desires, intentions, thoughts, or purposes.

We humans have a difficult time grasping this, since we don’t know what it is like to live in such a relationship at all, let alone for all eternity. All of relationships, even those that are the most loving, have areas of discord and misunderstanding.

But God the Father and God the Son (along with God the Holy Spirit) always lived in a perfect relationship and perfect unity.

Yet when Jesus went to the cross, He took the sins of all people, throughout all time, upon Himself. He bore our sins in His own body (1 Pet 2:24). He who knew no sin, became sin for us (2 Cor 5:21). He became a curse for us (Gal 3:13).

I believe that from the perspective of Jesus on the cross, it seemed that God had “abandoned” Him to sin.

Though sin cannot damage or pollute God in any way, sin does cause a separation between Himself and the sinner. It appears that when Jesus took the sin of all people upon Himself, a separation came between Him and God that had never before existed.

So when Jesus cried out, “Why have you forsaken me?” it was because He was experiencing a brokenness in His relationship with God the Father that they had never before experienced. Yes, He knew that God had not finally and ultimately forsaken Him, and He knew that He would be raised again in three days, but the cry of Jesus from the cross is not about those things, but about the separation from God He experienced for the very time in all eternity.

why have you forsaken meThis experience of separation from God elicited the cry of Jesus, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” He had never experienced this separation before, and though He knew that He would be reunited with God in a short while, the pain and agony of the separation was caused this cry of despair from Jesus.

But had God truly forsaken Jesus? I don’t think so. I don’t think God did forsake Jesus any more than God forsakes us. Jesus was not a God-forsaken God.

The God-Forsaken God?

I might be going out too far on a theological limb here, but there is a part of me that thinks it is only here on the cross where Jesus finally experienced the pain and turmoil of what it is like to be a sinful human being separated from God. Though Jesus came as a human being to rescue us from our sinful plight and in so doing, experienced almost everything He could as a human, He never really experienced the fearful and agonizing predicament of being separated from God by sin.

It was only when He took our sin upon Himself on the cross, it was only when the crushing despair of being separated from God came upon Him, that He finally felt what we humans have lived with since we were born. The pain and anguish we feel every day, the suffering of being separated from God that has so numbed our souls, the despair and fear that drives us to live as we do, was felt for the very first time by Jesus on the cross when sin came upon Him.

His cry, “My God, my God, Why have You forsaken Me?” is not the cry of the God-forsaken God, but is the heart cry of every single human being on earth. It is the cry we have been voicing since the beginning when we fell into sin.

And finally, God came to earth in Jesus Christ to experience this separation for Himself. And when He did, the suffering is so great, He cries out, “My God, my God, Why have you forsaken me?”

Do you see? This is not just the cry of Jesus on the cross. This is the cry of every single person on earth.

It is our pain, our fear, our hurt, our despair, finally being given a voice. It is the cry of God fully entering into our broken condition and fully experiencing the sense of separation from God that sin causes, and crying out in anguish and despair over this sense of loss, “My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?”

When we feel that God is ignoring us, or has abandoned us, Jesus knows what we feel, and He cries out to God on our behalf, “Why have You forsaken Me?”

When we experience fear in the night about our future, Jesus knows what we feel, and He cries out to God on our behalf, “Why have You forsaken Me?”

When bad things happen in this world, and we wonder what God is doing about them (if anything), Jesus knows what we feel, and He cries out to God on our behalf, “Why have You forsaken Me?”

When we feel despised and rejected, abused and slandered, misunderstood and forgotten, and we wonder why God seems to be doing nothing to protect and defend us, Jesus knows what we feel, and He cries out to God on our behalf, “Why have You forsaken Me?”

The separation from God that Jesus experienced on the cross is the separation from God that humans experience every day. Certainly, since He is God and since He bore every sin of every person, He experienced this separation to an infinite degree. But still, the cry of Jesus from the cross, “My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me?” is not just the cry of Jesus, but is our cry.

It is the cry of every single human being on earth. Jesus was giving voice to our pain and anguish.

Do you feel abandoned by God? Jesus knows what that feels like. Do you feel forsaken, neglected, forgotten, and overlooked? Jesus knows what that feels like. Do you feel like God has turned His back? Jesus knows what that feels like.

But here is the thing…

The original question was “How can Jesus say ‘Why have you forsaken me?’ when God did not actually forsake Him?”

Yes. And just as Jesus felt what we all feel to be forsaken, so also, none of us have been forsaken, just as Jesus Himself was not.

Though you may feel abandoned by God, you are no more abandoned than was Jesus. Though you may feel forsaken, forgotten, neglected, and overlooked, these things are no more true of you than they were of Jesus. Though you may feel unloved, this is no more true of you than it was for Jesus.

Though Jesus cried out, “Why have you forsaken me?” He was NOT forsaken. And neither are we.

This is a feeling that Jesus experienced, which is a feeling we ALL experience.

And this feeling does not come because we are forsaken, but because of sin. Sin has separated us from God; it has not separated God from us. This is why God had to reconcile the world to Himself (1 Cor 5:19). He didn’t need to reconcile Himself to the world, for He never left or abandoned us.

Though we may feel forsaken, we are not forsaken any more than Jesus was forsaken.

God did not forsake Jesus, and God does not forsake us. The presence of sin in our lives makes us feel like we are forsaken, like God has abandoned us, forgotten us, or left us alone to suffer and die, when in fact, God is right there all the time, holding us, loving us, and crying with us over our pain.

It is sin that makes us feel separated from God, and this is the feeling Jesus expressed on the cross, and is one reason Jesus went to the cross – to take our sin and bear it away into death so that we can see that God has not left us, has not abandoned us, and has not forsaken us, but has fully entered into our pain, our suffering, and even into our sin, so that He might show us how much He loves and cares for us. This truth is explained in more detail in my new book, The Atonement of God.

I am not sure if this answers the reader’s question, but it does help explain what Jesus meant when He said, “My God, my God, why have You forsaken Me?” It also helps us understand that on the cross, Jesus understood the feeling of being a sinful human being, and it is for this reason that we can trust His promise that He will never leave us nor forsake us (Heb 13:5).

The cross of Jesus is CENTRAL to everything!

Transform your life and theology by focusing on the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus:

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God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: cross, cruciform, crucivision, death, death of Jesus, Matthew 27:46-47, sin, Theology of God, Theology of Jesus, Theology of Sin

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God Knows What it is Like to Experience the Death of a Child

By Jeremy Myers
5 Comments

God Knows What it is Like to Experience the Death of a Child

A reader recently sent in the following questions about the death of Jesus as the Son of God and how it affected God the Father. Specifically, they wanted to know if God knew what it was like to experience the death of a child. Here is the question:

I am a believer, but I am troubled by an atheist’s questions. I was talking to an atheist the other day, and he said that God doesn’t know what it’s like to experience the death of a child because he knew all along that Jesus would rise in three days, so he only lost him for the weekend! He also questioned that if God is Jesus, why did he beg to be saved from the cross when he was in the garden? Also, shouldn’t Jesus already have known he would rise again in three days? Why did he ask God, “Why have you forsaken me?” Wouldn’t he know that he’s only going to be dead three days?

I am answering these questions over the course of four blog posts in the following order:

  1. How to Answer Questions of Atheists
  2. 2 Traditional Explanations for How God knows what it is Like to Lose a Son (both of which I reject)
  3. 2 Ways God Knows What it is like to Experience the Death of a Child
  4. Why did Jesus say, “My God, My God, Why have You forsaken Me?”

So in this post, I will look at two ways that God does indeed know what it is like to experience the death of a child, and in fact, knows better than we do what it is like.

God Knows What it is Like to Experience the Death of a Child

I believe that God does know what it is like to experience the death of a child. In fact, I believe that God knows better than anyone else what it is like to lose a child.

We can see this in at least two ways.

1. When Jesus Became Sin, God’s Eternal Relationship with Jesus was Shattered

God did not experience the death of a child the same way that humans do. When Jesus died on the cross, it is true that God did not experience His death the same way that human parents experience the death of their son or daughter. But this does not mean that there was no loss on the part of God, that there was no pain, that there was no suffering.

death of a childQuite to the contrary, it could be argued that in the death of Jesus, God experienced greater loss, greater pain, and greater suffering than do human parents.

2 Corinthians 5:21 says that on the cross, Jesus became sin for us. He took our sin upon Himself. While it is nearly impossible to understand exactly how this happened or what occurred, we can know that whatever it means, it would have caused excruciating anguish and torment for both God the Father and God the Son. We have lived with sin our entire lives. We have become accustomed to it. We cannot imagine an existence without sin.

But God is holy, righteous, and good. He is love and light. What then must it mean for Him to knew no sin to become sin for us? What must it have been like for God to see the holiness of His one and only son get exchanged (or covered, or extinguished, or whatever verb best fits with your theology of the atonement) with the totality of all sin ever committed by every human in the history of the world? We humans cannot imagine the suffering and the torment that this must have caused.

Worse yet, the sin that Jesus bore caused a rift to open in His relationship with God the Father. The sin caused a separation. This is why Jesus cried out from the cross, “My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?” This is the cry of God the Son experiencing for the first time in eternity a separation from God the Father. The suffering and sacrifice was so great, that it shattered the eternal relationship between God the Father and God the Son. This also is something we humans cannot imagine. We are pained when separated from our loved ones whom we have known for several years, or several decades. But God the Father and God the Son have existed eternally in relationship with one another. Sin caused them to be separated.

And while both God the Father and Jesus the Son knew that Jesus would rise again, there was a pain in their separation that can never be matched by the most painful loss which any human being can experience.

Look at it this way: Though plants are “alive” (in some sense), they do not experience pain or loss when one of their “baby” plants die. Up the creation spectrum a little bit, we have animals. Many animals parents (though not all) do experience pain or loss when one of their children dies. But going up the creation spectrum to the top, it seems that humans experience the greatest pain and suffering when we are separated from our children by death.

But God is infinitely “higher” than humans in every way, and therefore, must experience an infinitely greater loss at the pain, suffering, and loss of His Son, even though He knew He would be reunited with His son shortly. The knowledge of the resurrection did not dissipate the pain and suffering that God experienced when Jesus bore the sin of the world into death.

Again, think about the situation as a parent. Let us say that you knew your child was going to die, and that your child would rise again from the dead in three days. But before your child died, they would have to experience the most excruciating and painful torment ever imaginable. Would their pain and death be any easier for you to handle, even knowing that they would rise again in three days? No, I do not think so.

How much more so for God? Though the situation was a bit different when God lost His son than when parents lose their children, it can be argued that God knows the pain of suffering and the torment of a lost loved one in deeper ways and with greater agony than do human parents. God does know the pain of losing a child. Since death is the antithesis and complete opposite of everything that is “God” for Jesus to die would be the greatest and more terrible experience of the death of a child, especially when the child is the Son of God.

But there is another way that God has experienced the death of a child.

2. Every Person is One of God’s Children

We sometimes seem to forget that every single person is (in some sense) one of God’s children. Even those who rebel against God and who never return to Him are viewed by Him as His lost and wayward children. He looks after each and every person on earth throughout history. He looks earnestly down the road every day, hoping that his wayward children will return to Him.

And when each and every person dies, whether young or old, God suffers through their death. Death, remember, was not God’s plan or desire for the world. When any person dies, it wrenches the heart of God. Death torments God day and night.

When we suffer over the loss of our loved ones, God suffers with us.

When we cry out in pain over the death of a child, God cries with us.

When we scream until we have no voice and sob until we have no tears, God continues to scream with a voice that never cracks and sob with eyes that never run dry.

When you suffer over the death of a child, a parent, a spouse, a sibling, a friend, or any loved one, know that God suffers also. However much you suffer over the loss of your loved ones, God suffers more. He knows what it is like to experience the death of a child, because all people are his sons and daughters. He “gave birth” to us. He brought us forth. He cared for us. Tended us. Brought us up. Planned for our future. Laughed and danced and sang with us.

death of a childAnd when death strikes, God is there, grieving and mourning over the death of yet another child.

God knows what it is like to lose a child, not just because of Jesus, but because He experiences the pain of death whenever any person dies.

I think that more than anything, when a person is going through intense pain and suffering and they cry out to God in anger, despair, or frustration, while they do not really want theological answers or Scripture quotations, one thing they do want is to know that God is with them in their pain and suffering, and that He is suffering right along with them.

This idea that God suffers when we suffer is one way to encourage people to see the love and care of God in our lives, even when we experience the death of a child or face any other type of pain in life.

The cross of Jesus is CENTRAL to everything!

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God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: cruciform, crucivision, death, death of a child, death of Jesus, pain, suffering, Theology of God, Theology of Jesus, Theology of Sin

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Does God Know What it is Like to Lose a Son?

By Jeremy Myers
6 Comments

Does God Know What it is Like to Lose a Son?

A reader recently sent in the following questions about the death of Jesus as the Son of God and how it affected God the Father. Specifically, they wanted to know if God knew what it was like to lose a son. Here is the question:

I am a believer, but I am troubled by an atheist’s questions. I was talking to an atheist the other day, and he said that God doesn’t know what it’s like to lose a son because he knew all along that Jesus would rise in three days, so he only lost him for the weekend! He also questioned that if God is Jesus, why did he beg to be saved from the cross when he was in the garden? Also, shouldn’t Jesus already have known he would rise again in three days? Why did he ask God, “Why have you forsaken me?” Wouldn’t he know that he’s only going to be dead three days?

I began to answer these questions in a post about the existence of God by looking at the basic approach I use when answering questions from atheists (or anyone with whom I disagree about anything). Actually answering the questions (or attempting to do so) will require several posts. Here is the order I will answer these questions:

  1. How to Answer Questions of Atheists
  2. 2 Traditional Explanations for How God knows what it is Like to Lose a Son (both of which I reject)
  3. 2 Ways God Knows What it is like to lose a Son
  4. Why did Jesus say, “My God, My God, Why have You forsaken Me?”

So in this post, I will look at two traditional explanations for how God knows what it is like to lose a son, and I will also explain why I reject both explanations (which might also be why atheists and other people reject these explanations as well).

Does God Know What it is Like to Lose a Son? (Traditional Answers)

lose a sonSometimes this question is asked this way: “How could God know what it is like to lose a son if He knew Jesus was just going to rise from the dead three days later?” Or “How could the death of Jesus be a sacrifice for God if God knew that Jesus was just going to rise again from the dead?”

These are all very good questions, which are not so easily answered! Nevertheless, there are two popular answers I have heard which attempt to explain how God knows what it is like to lose a son.

1. Christians Know Their Children Will Rise Too

It is sometimes suggested that God knew Jesus would rise from the dead just as all Christian parents know that their dead children will rise from the dead.

This, I believe, is a weak answer.

God knew with absolute certainty that the death of Jesus would end in the resurrection of Jesus; but not all parents have this same certainty. Not even all Christian parents have this certainty.

Furthermore, even when parents know they will be reunited with lost loved ones in the future, Jesus was only in the grave for three days, while parents who lose a son or daughter have to wait the rest of their life.

While nobody wants to lose a son or daughter (or any family member for that matter), the pain of it would be significantly lessened, it seems, if we knew that we would receive our lost loved ones back within three days, and they would be fully healthy and whole and would never suffer or die again.

So when viewed from this perspective, the claim that God knows what it is like to lose a son seems rather hollow, does it not?

2. God lives in an Eternal Now

The second way some people try to explain how God knows what it is like to lose a son is through the view that God exists outside of time, that God is timeless. If this is true, rather than experiencing a sequence of events (as we do), God experiences all events as an eternal now. It is argued then, that the crushing, heart-wrenching pain of watching a child die, and the sense of deep loss that lingers afterwards for days, months, and even years in the hearts of parents, is the pain that God experiences for an eternity over the death of His Son.

lose a childThough I was taught in Bible college and Seminary that God is timeless, that He exists outside of time in a constant, eternal now, I don’t believe it. There are numerous reasons why, which I won’t get into here. I believe that God is relational and is capable of reacting to our needs and prayers in a way that would not be possible if He were outside of time.

But even if this view is true, it still doesn’t allow God to experience what it is like to lose a son. For even if He eternally experiences the crushing sorrow of losing a child, He also eternally experiences the joy of being with His Son for eternity, and the even more thrilling experience of His Son rising from the dead. Neither of these eternal experiences can be shared by humans, and so even in this view, God does not know what it is like to lose a son in the same way that humans do.

So where do we go from here?

In a future post, I will look at the two reasons I think God does know what it is like to lose a son, and in so doing, will see that God may actually know better than we what it is like. Interested to hear more? Check back tomorrow. (Edit: The links are listed above).

What do you think of the two explanations above? Are you aware of any other explanations that Christians sometimes give for whether or not God knows what it is like to lose a son? Weigh in by sharing below!

The cross of Jesus is CENTRAL to everything!

Transform your life and theology by focusing on the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus:

Fill out the form below to receive several emails from me about the death and resurrection of Jesus.

(Note: If you are a member of RedeemingGod.com, login and then revisit this page to update your membership.)

God is Redeeming Theology Bible & Theology Topics: cross, cruciform, crucivision, death, death of Jesus, love of God, resurrection, Theology of God, Theology of Jesus

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